Is there a relation between shva nach and Arabic sukoon ? Do they have similar functions in the two languages? Is there anything similar in other Semitic langugaes? Todah rabbah. Avraham
Hey, I once learned from a Chabad Chassidic Rebbe, to spell Schwa as "shin-vet-alef". This supports the notion of "seven points" mentioned in your article here. Moreover, it is apparent that the Hebrew word "Sheva" is the source of the English word "Seven." It satifies my intellect, however, that the Schwa gives the sense of "nought".
Source:
http://www.chadishmedia.com
Modern linguistic (especially structural linguistic) is based on oppositions and series of variation.
So, when you study various words with the same root, even in non semitic language, you can observe change between various vowels, and sometimes, the disapearance of the vowel.
The old hebrew sheva was the good concept to say : here, there could be a vowel, but there is not.
The hebrew sheva (or the less famous arabic soukoun) is to phonology, what the zero was to arithmetic.
The need to borrow the concept of "no vowel" didn't appear before structuralism.
What the french intellectual Roland Barthes calls "Le degré zéro".
Why is it that almost every time I feel there's a slam dunk connection between Hebrew and English, like schwa, or even between Aramaic and English, Klein comes along and gives some other source that just doesn't convince me? Must I concede because he's considered an expert, and I'm just a plebe?
Dave: As to borrowing by Christians, there have obviously been many Christian Hebrew and bible scholars through the ages. Many of them utilised Jewish works, some written in Hebrew. Quite popular was David Kimhi's grammar, the Mikhlol (as well as his commentaries) which would have surely discussed the sheva. To my knowledge, no non-Hebrew vowel terminology is used to discuss Hebrew vowels, and so academia talks of things like segholates, even with reference to other Semitic languages. But while other vowels are talked of by class "short e-vowel", "long i-vowel", sheva does not fit into this classification system, probably making its use more popular.
Avraham: Sheva has two phonetic values, one like a sukoon that means no vowel is pronounced, and one which is a short centralised vowel (although Yemenites pronounce it somewhat more open than others, to my knowledge). And to my knowledge, the connection between שבע and "seven" is debated. See Dave's discussion of the similar apparrent connection for "six" at http://www.balashon.com/2006/05/...6/05/
shesh.html.
BarTalmei Limetree: the only meaning in Hebrew I know for שבא is the kingdom of Sheba. It does not mean seven; that is שבע which is far removed from שוא. All (early and late) grammarians I know of spell the vowel שוא. (See e.g. Ibn Ezra on Gen. 3:12, Radak on Josh. 2:7, as two of inordinate instances; or the small Feldheim Simanim tikkun p. 19.)
Phil: the question upon you is why there should be a connection between (modern or classical) Hebrew or Aramaic and modern English anyway?
Thank you for making the excellent distinction betwixt "Sheba" and "sheva". However, in Job 38:27 (leHaS'biya shoah uM'Shoah)—the concept of "vain" is twice underscored and insightfully juxtaposed to "sheva," if you will. My presumption is that Shoah is cognizant to "sheva"—meaning “vain/empty”. Thus, here is another connection of Sheva to Sheva. Nu?
I don't know about a connection between the vowel sheva and the number seven, but it is true - as BarTalmei wrote in his first comment - that in chassidic sources the name of this vowel is usually written שבא rather than שוא. It's printed that way at the beginning of the Chabad Tehillas Hashem siddur, for example.
There is also a fascinating essay by R' Levi Yitzchak Schneersohn (father of the late Lubavitcher Rebbe zt"l), in which he shows the significance of each detail of his arrest and imprisonment (for carrying on Jewish activities in Soviet Russia) according to Kabbalah. He notes that he was jailed for 303 days (after which he was exiled to Kazakhstan), the numerical equivalent of שבא, and points out that in Kabbalistic thought this vowel is associated with Hashem's attribute of strict justice (gevurah).
I don't know the ultimate source for this spelling, though it does appear this way in the Zohar (Bereishis 24b).
In the Nazarean Codicil, (Hakham Dr. Luqas 11:31) the connection is made betwixt the "Queen of the South" (i.e. Sheba) and "the utmost parts of the earth." This would lead me to believe that as in the previous comment (above) "Sheba" is a far place of "exile"--or, perhaps, a place of desolation, hence the connection to it's phonetic equivalent: Sheva/Schwa.
What's in a name? Another connection which comes to mind: Exodus 20:7 in the commandment not to take the name (shem) of HaShem in vain (sheva). And the concept that Sheba is a place of desolation and void. Talmud Bavli, Berakhoth 7b associates the word "shem" (which we should not take in vain) to "shammoth" desolations Psalm 46:8--thus here is a supporting reference for the concept of Sheba/utmost parts and the Schwa/Sheva vowel's alternate spelling, by virtue of the connection of "shem" and "shammoth" and "the land of Sheba."
Adding to my previous comment is the following reference: And when the queen of Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon concerning the name of the LORD, she came to prove him with hard questions. -1 Kings 10:1 Therein lies a specific connection of the word "Sheba" and the SHEM (name) of HaShem: which we are commanded not to take in "sheva."
>But the question remains - why would European linguists borrow a Hebrew word?
Why not? There's a grand tradition of Hebraism in classical Western education going back to the 16th century. Indeed, until very nearly the 20th century it was regarded as the cherry on top of the de riguer Greek + Latin needed by any scholar, let alone philologist!
>The word shva only shows up in Medieval Hebrew, so it didn't have any of the Biblical sentiment that the Christian scholars might have attached to it.
There was a surprising lack of clarity between biblical and rabbinic Hebrew and teachings before the 19th century, despite motive for the contrary. For example, it was widely assumed that the Mishnah, read very naively, could illumine the world of the New Testament.
See, e.g., http://onthemainline.blogspot.co...ishnayos-
i.html
>I'm still curious to see exactly what Hebrew texts were read by Christian scholars when they discovered the word, but that may be lost to history...
Not at all. Initially they read, primarily, the works by R. Eliyah Bahur (Elias Levita); then they read the Hebrew grammars and lexicons by people like the Buxtorfs (father and son) and Sebastian Muenster. This is as far as Hebrew instruction went. They also read many rabbinic texts. Everything from Mishneh Torah, to the Talmud Bavli to the Kuzari.
Plug: see my blog English Hebraica for many posts pertaining to this topic. :)
Creative, BarTalmei Limetree, but far from anything we call linguistics or etymology. The actual meaning of שבא is possibly something to do with an expedition. Either way, you should be careful, at least from a linguistic point of view even if not from a midrashich point of view, not to confuse shin and sin. They are distinct letters. שׁבע and שׂבע are distinct roots. And שׂבע in Job means to satiate, as it usually does, and has nothing to do with the desolation in the words that follow. Still, yes, שואה and שוא are likely related.
Ben-Yehuda mentions that the Spanish grammarians would often spell shva שבא (shin-bet-alef). He quotes Ibn Janach the Kuzari, and Abarbanel for example.
He says they thought the word derived from ישב - to sit, to not move. He says this was in their eyes parallel to the Arabic sukoon.
However, he sticks with the spelling שוא, the etymology "seven points" and says that the Spanish spelling was not the original one.
Steinberg does connect shva, shav and shoah - but that's not surprising, considering his general approach.
What is the alternative meaning of the word וְיִירְאוּ in Tehilim 67:8?
Doesn't that mean '(and) let them be afraid' ?
תודה
It could mean "and they will see" - which certainly would not be the correct meaning.
Thank you. In Psalm 67:8 the "ends" of the earth is mentioned as in the NC Luqas 11:31. If this is where Sheba is located, at least, conceptually, then "eph'sei" (spelt with a shva) or "ephes," would indicate that "Sheba," as the alternate name of the vowel "shva," would have an "ephes" or "zero" value as is indicated in contemporary Hebrew, the Aleinu, Isa. 45:6 and Zec. 2:15.
"How do we properly recite this word in the regular prayers? "
when i was in school, richard steiner insisted that it nach.
you should read the brief article by yalon (שוא שאחרי שורוק בראש המלה), rpt. in his קונטרסים לעניני לשון העברית (?)
(there may be a couple of exceptions, e.g. וזהב, but i am confused about these examples because it involves other issues.)
"It could mean "and they will see" "
?
וייראו (sheva na) is from ירא
ויראו (sheva nach) is from ראה
see rashi on gen. 43:18
an entire class where nach/na differentiates meaning is heh ha-yedi'a vs. heh ha-she'ela; the former is followed by dagesh (and sheva na) while the latter is not followed by dagesh (hence sheva nach)
JOEL:
"All (early and late) grammarians I know of spell the vowel שוא."
according to steiner, the original spelling was שבא, which is "etymologically correct." he said that according רס"ג it changed because people interchanged bet and vav.
DAVE:
and on the topic of ראה and ירא, who do you pronounce the first word of the last paragraph of benching?
Though I perceive that I am evesdropping somewhat on their conversation, It should be noted that Psalm 98:3b reads “rau kol-aph’sei-aretz” vs. Psalm 67:8 which reads “ve’yiyr’au oto kol-aph’sei aretz.” Whilst the former occurrence may be interpreted as “see” in English, the latter occurrence of the word in questuion is “fear”. Albeit, in order to “fear” or “have awe” one must “perceive”—which is to “see.” Nonetheless, in each posuk cited, the goyim are coming from the “eph’sei” of the earth. And I must emphasize that “ephes”—meaning “null” is associated to “traveling from sheba” (if you will). Thus “sheba” is conceptually equal to “null,” hence its’ historical association with shva—meaning “empty”. Either way seems to do the job here. Nu?
When you ask "How do we properly recite this word . . . ", what do you mean by proper? Do you want to pronounce the word the way David Kimhi did, or Rabbi Yehuda ha-Nasi, or David ha-Melekh, or Moshe Rabbenu? They all pronounced Hebrew differently. In many cases what was pronounced as a vowel on one period was totally vowelless in another: for example, it's known that in a word like כותבים 'they write', there was a vowel after the ת in the earliest times (that's why the ב is pronounced as a v), but no vowel at all in the pronunciation of the ba'alei ha-masoret who wrote the vowels signs. So who's right? What does "right" mean?
Another caveat: Tehillim 72:10-12 juxtaposes three words--all having different spellings: -v.10:sheba, seba, and v.12 maSheva (meaning: "cry" which does not me silent--but spelt with the notably silent letter Ayin.)
An addendum to my above comment is that Jeremiah 6:20 associates Sheba with the word Mer'chaq (meaning "far country).
Can you cite a grammarian who holds that the shewa under the first bet in ובשכבך should be pronounced na'?
The connection between German, schwa and Hebrew must have come through Yiddish, a Germanic language with heavy loans from Hebrew and obviously spoken in German-speaking areas to begin with.
Gunilla
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