Can you see any connections between horef and harif (spicy) and herpah (shame)?
Pablo | 09.28.07 - 11:29 pm | #

But the Gemara, Bava Metzia 106b (cited in Rashi to Gen. 8:22), states that choref is from mid-Kislev to mid-Shevat, which seems too late for autumn or for harvest; it more closely corresponds to (the first half of) winter. So maybe that's where the modern Hebrew meaning originates?
Alex | 09.30.07 - 8:17 am | #

Pablo -

None of the modern dictionaries or commentaries connect them. This seems to be an example of chet being a "twin letter", where in different words it can have different meanings. In Arabic, there are two separate spellings entirely.

According to Klein, the root חרף means "to reproach, say sharp things", and from here we get charif חריף - "sharp, acute", and cherpa חרפה - "reproach, shame".

Alex - I think that the sense of choref meaning "winter" goes back much earlier than stav meaning "autumn". The question only is how do you define winter? The rainy season? Starting December 21? How long does it last? Two months or six? Since I haven't found an early source that answers these questions, I think that the exact time for choref remained undefined, and that gemara was one way of identifying it.
Dave (Balashon) | Homepage | 09.30.07 - 9:19 am | #

sorry to comment on the wrong post, but i'm not sure if you get notifications about comments on older posts.

i plan to use your devash post for a devar torah tomorrow. where does צוף fit in?
Mo'ah Kemo Efro'ah | Homepage | 10.03.07 - 3:06 pm | #

I'm not sure 100% about צוף. Ben Yehuda, and following him, Klein, say honey-comb. On the other hand, Steinberg and Kaddari seem to say nectar. In any case, it's something different than honey, it's what honey comes from (the differences deal with where it comes from.) In Sotah 48b, we see that דבש comes from ציפיא.
Dave (Balashon) | Homepage | 10.03.07 - 3:47 pm | #

I'm sorry to say but both Horef and Stav mean winter in Ancient Hebrew. In Israel there is NO Autum!!! This has been confirmed by my Hebrew and Bible teachers at the Tel-Aviv University where I study these subjects.
Joel | 10.12.07 - 1:56 am | #

I agree that there is no autumn like they have in the West - with the "fall"ing leaves, etc. But the winter does have different periods - as marked by the different names for rain for each time. So the question is do stav and choref refer to early or late winter? That was the point of the post.
Dave (Balashon) | Homepage | 10.12.07 - 10:34 am | #

Oh no! Another Joel! Hmm... What do I do?
Joel | Homepage | 10.15.07 - 6:56 pm | #

Well, you do provide your homepage...
Dave (Balashon) | Homepage | 10.15.07 - 7:27 pm | #