Aren't you confusing a Tzadi/Sad with a Samech?


And for that matter Sin?


Gravatar But tzadi is pronounced S in Arabic. The first example that comes to mind is Nasser (of Egypt), which is pronounced Nasser but written with a tzadi in Hebrew.


Gravatar The Arabic equivalent of Tzadi is Sad, which is a pharyngealized s. Make an s and a strong hissing sound at the same time. Certain liturgical dialects of Hebrew pronounce Tzadi this way. Teimani (Yemenite) is the first that comes to mind.


Gravatar I came across your article about the Tzabar by chance. We at kibbutz Gadot remember fondly our departed member Uzi Cohen, who struggled for many years to cultivate a tzabar without prickles. Uzi was a born cattle man and wanted to use the tzabar plant as fodder for cows. Unfortunately he passed away before he reached his goal. Does anyone know if indeed there has been developed an Israeli prickly cactus without the prickles, a variety that may be chopped up and fed to animals. Thank you. Shlomo Sokol. PS Uzi Cohen swept us all up with his enthusiasm for the tzabar plant and we all became interested in his long-term project.


Gravatar Thanks. YOu worte: "sabar means in Arabic "to bind"." I did not find this meaning in Lisan Al-Arab (LAA).

LAA mentions "Sabr" a very sour spice from India, could be Tamarind.
A Syrian may describe some taste that is very strong and sour "like al-Sabr." The original plant may have been forgotten but the expression remained.

" tzibbur - originally heap..." This meaning is mentioned in LAA.

I think the meaning of the Arabic "sabbara" is to preserve food with spices. This usage is becoming obsolete. Khallalah (from Khal=vinegar) is used to mean to preserve with food using vinegar. Perhaps the spice Sabre (not cactus) was used to preserve food.

As always, interesting article, thanks again.


Gravatar I think there's probably a connection between "preserve food with spices" and "embalming (with aloe)". As creepy as it may sound, they're pretty much the same thing...


Gravatar "LAA mentions "Sabr" a very sour spice from India, could be Tamarind."

Tamarind is actually from the the Arabic "tamar hindi" (Indian date)


Gravatar I'm surprised you didn't link here for "embalm".

And you should probably have marked the word שבר as שׂבר- its friend with a Shin is much more common. And I had thought that לשבור as in the purchasing of grain may relate to the piling in לצבור, but it seems more likely to be derived from the small grains themselves being שברים (not to be confused with שוָרים).


Gravatar Very "meta" to be reminded to quote my own site. However, I hadn't mentioned "embalm" in my earlier post, and it was important to mention preservation.

Point taken about the nikkud. I rarely put nikkud in my posts (unless I'm copying and pasting from the Tanach). I probably should do it more often, but here it was certainly misleading not to.


Gravatar The problem is only that שׂ and שׁ are underlyingly different consonants, unlike other uses of nikkud. Of course שׁ may be further subdivided into original phonemes equivalent to Arabic ث, س, etc.


Gravatar Well, to quote the שַׂר הַמַּשְׁקִים :

"My sin I recall today..."


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