What is your opinion about the theory that the words "mama" and "dada" and similar words for mother and father around the world come from the sound the baby makes? After all, I don't believe there are any languages where the words for mother or father is "gaga".
1) how did you know about the usage in ben sira? i assume you did not use the concordance in the edition published by the academy of the hebrew language otherwise you could have easily checked in the critical text to see what the more accurate reading is.
2) my favorite story from genizah studies is the (apocryphal?) story about the paradox that schechter faced when he discovered the first hebrew ms. of ben sira. he knew he was reading something that no one had ever seen before, yet he knew he had already read it (this story is actually a tribute to ben zeev, whose masterful retranslation into hebrew was so accurate)
3)when you are gaga about someone/something, does this come from ga'agu'im?
Phil - I'm not sure I understand the question. Mama is an easy word for a baby to say - no need for teeth. Therefore mama (or some form of it) is fairly universal, even in unrelated languages.
Dada is not universal. As Sacks points out in his book, Mandarin Chinese and Etruscan have no voiced stops, so they wouldn't be saying "dada" or "gaga".
Ari -
1) I happened to find the quote by browsing through Klausner's book. I don't have the Academy's edition, and decided not to put off the post until I found it. Do you have it? Is the quote accurate?
3) Nope (although I assume you had a feeling) - http://www.yourdictionary.com/ah...g/
g0006500.html
Shalom,
Perhaps their is a connection to betwixt gaga and these Hebrew words: gag & ga'oh ga'ah, all which we regard in high esteem?
see also:
http://www.cartoonhebrew.com/ind....php?
step=gimel
Shalom,
Perhaps their is a connection betwixt gaga and these Hebrew words: gag, gaon & ga'oh ga'ah, all of which we regard in high esteem? Please also consider that the word gag is simply a benevolent gimel reinforcing another benevolent gimel. Come to think of it; this too, is an act of loving kindness!
see also:
http://www.cartoonhebrew.com/ind....php? step=gimel
"I'm not sure I understand the question. Mama is an easy word for a baby to say - no need for teeth. Therefore mama (or some form of it) is fairly universal, even in unrelated languages."
My thinking is like this: The general theory is that the universal "mama" originated from the infants' sounds. However, since no language uses "gaga" for mother -- and "gaga" also requires no teeth -- I'm skeptical that the general theory is totally correct.
dave:
i don't own the edition, but i looked at it today:
עשיר מדבר ועזריו רבים---ודבריו מכוערין מ[ה]ופין
דל נמוט גע גע ושא(!)----ודבר משכיל ואין לו מקום
shabbat shalom
Phil: there is an extensive literature on such questions. See: http://www.sussex.ac.uk/linguist...e_do_mama2.pdf;
R. Jakobson's "Why 'mama' and 'papa'?" published 1960; http://forum.wordreference.com/a.../t-173913.html;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mam.../Mama_and_papa;
and more at http://scholar.google.com/
schola...098157620115572.
While mothers' names seem to involve [m] (or [n]), fathers' names involve [p],[b],[d] or [t]. This is fairly consistent.
We can explain these all as being early phonemes in the production of language by a child, but that does not explain why mothers tend to end up with something nasal, and the father's name has a stop. (I imagine [m] is an earlier-produced phoneme, but haven't looked at it enough to know.)
I can, though, suggest why they are not called with a [g] sound: The "ga" we often hear from babies is usually pronounced back in the throat, and although most English speakers are not trained to distinguish this from [g], it is quite a different sound. It does not have the solidity of the letters a baby forms at the front of the mouth, and also is not a letter we use in English, or most languages. To pronounce the letter [g] as we do on the velum, you need a strong central tongue, and significant pressure on its part to form a stop.
Joel, I truly appreciate your thoughtful response. -- Phil
...as an addendum to my above comments, the word 'gehah' meaning 'cure' is also another phonetic 'ga' term (if you will) of endearment and upliftment. This is consistent with the thoughts which you expressed on 'gaga' Nu?
BarTalmei Limetree,
For a suggessted connection betwixt gaga and these Hebrew words: gag, gaon & ga'oh ga'ah see www.hebrewetymology.com
Danny S., Tiveon, Israel
Oh no! Another good domain name put to waste.
Joel. I was taken somewhat aback by your statement that “To pronounce the letter [g] as we do on the velum, you need a strong central tongue, and significant pressure on its part to form a stop”. According to prevailing wisdom and my own research it is a strong peripheral tongue that is needed for the hard stop.
Dr. Yuri Sharinov
I am no expert, Yuri. I am sorry if I sound like I know more than I do. I was speaking of tongue sections completely qualitatively and roughly. And just guessing at the answer, rather than researching it.
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