Peace, Dale.
It's possible more than one side here erred. I'm not surprised the SSPX comes off as arrogant, sacriligious boors. I'm sure their pseudo-priest leader prayed their "demonstration" was effective, for a spectacle like that would certainly need a lot of prayer to be so.
Even a liberal would think twice about going into a Tridentine stronghold yelling in English and waving a banner denouncing Pope Pius XIII. But if liberals can't quite get the protest thing together, why would I think incompetent pseudotrads could do it any better?
This strikes me as considerably more problematic than Assisi. An altar is for Mass (and related celebrations). At Assisi, prayers were separate - one didn't have non-Christians praying at the altar, as far as I know.
Todd, like it or not, the SSPX priest is a Priest, and no one in the Vatcian would deny that.
Must actually commend the SSPXers, for once. No Buddhist monks chanting on altars where bread and wine becomes Body And Blood Soul And Divinity Of Our Savior. Hands off, guys. We don't have Masses at your headquarters. Don't do your thing on our altars. High fences make good neighbors.
The article quoted one of the SSPXers as pointing out one of the rich ironies of ecumemism, which is that Buddhists are tolerated (indeed, welcomed) at St. Adelbert's, but the SSPX is not. Shouldn't Catholics be at least as tolerant of those with whom they agree 75% as with those with whom they agree only 50%?
There is no real defense for that gathering in Assisi, and it was not "ecumenical" but "inter-faith"; that is, it was prayer among Christians and non-Christians (even practitioners of voodoo, for heaven's sake!). I am continually amazed by all the vitriol against the SSPX, they who even though in an irregular status, at least have more Catholic sense than to allow and welcome Buddhists at the altar of a Catholic Church. And perhaps that is the real explanation for much of the animus against the Society -- we have to have a scapegoat to detract from the widespread apostasy in the Church.
Fr. Ray, you put into words what I have loosely suspected for a long time. Give the SSPX one inch and us "Novus Ordo" types are admitting that there may just be a problem in the Church Universal.
There are some very vitriolic SSPXers (take a look at the religion section of Freerepublic sometime) but I suspect the balance of them are faith-filled Catholics who just can't take some of the antics found in "Novus Ordo" parishes and have no where else to go and form their faith and the faith of their children. Even some of the better NO parishes/schools have CCD materials that are fluid on quite a bit of doctrine.
Oh, and Todd? Where does the SSPX come off as arrogant and sacriligious boors? They did what the regular parishioners of St. Adelbert's should have had the sense to do - what any Catholic would have done back when most of us knew their faith.
When I saw the links that this parish has up extolling the virtues of eastern meditation and eastern practices, Buddhists on the altar made sense. Sad.
Colleen, I agree with you to some extent. The parishioners of St. Adalbert's SHOULD have done something about it. However, the SSPX people overstepped their bounds.
You and Fr. Ray and Seamus speak of the SSPX as though they were cast out of the Church through no fault of their own, and this is not the case. Looked at from a Novus Ordo viewpoint, they have left the mainstream Church but yet want to dictate to it whom it may have in its churches.
That said, I am revolted that nobody had told the monks beforehand what they could and could not do. If they had no way of knowing, it's because NOT ONE PERSON had the orthodoxy (or the cojones) to tell them before they ignited a prayer-brawl.
Peace, Colleen.
Using prayer as a means of public (and especially loud and disruptive) protest borders on sacrilege. Ends do not justify means.
It's not entirely clear to me that the Buddhist monks were engaged in praying, only in a cultural demonstration of chant, which would be helped by the supposedly superior acoustics of a church. The mention of "performance" leads me to the conclusion that this was more of a concert than an attempt at active Buddhism. Additionally, it is hard to tell if by praying "at the altar" one means actually "at" the altar, or in the raised sanctuary space. Few non-Christians would be comfortable "praying" in a Catholic church, or even appearing to associate their prayer with clearly "Catholic" objects such as an altar. And since Buddhists do not generally practice evangelization, this event seems innocent enough as a cultural/interfaith demonstration.
All that said, I think the "demonstration" might have been scheduled in a better location, but it's rare enough that a parish has one good acoustic space on the premises. Thumbs down to all involved: clearly not one of those instances where because one side is wrong, the other must be right. Triangulation helps here.
Hello folks,
I can't think anyone comes off looking good in all of this.
* The SSPX do have a bit of a reputation as "boors." I think Todd is right to point out that using prayer as a demonstration is touchy ground. There is something offputting about the fact they don't care enough for St. Adalbert to worship there but they do care enough to protest there.
* The staff at St. Adalbert's ought to have known better. Whether it was technically worship or not, the monks had no business at or near the altar. Better acoustics are not a valid reason. If this was not syncretism and sacrilege, it was darned close to it.
* There ought to have been concerns raised by St. Adalbert parishioners. If they were upset by all this there's no evidence in the articles.
I do feel a bit sorry for the monks, who likely had no idea what they were stumbling into.
best regards,
Actually I sometimes frquent the SSPX chapel near me. THey are great! At the end of the month Cardinal Egan is selling off a shrine in NYC (of course they close the shrine that has the once-a-month indult). So on the lsat day of its existence as a Shrine to St. Anne the SSPX is going to just hold a reverent Latin Liturgy in front of it.
I am generally pro-SSPX- I think on th eessential issues they are right- and I pray everyday for ROme to regularize them.
That you guys even need to be arguing this is part of why I got hooked on real "traditional Catholicism" (Holy Orthodoxy) and left the Pope's mess entirely.
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