Gravatar Hello Dale,

I have read most of Stirling's stuff, but I have not gotten around to Dies the Fire yet. Grad school leaves little time for reading - save in the summer, perhaps.

On Conquistador: "(I. Want. To. Go. There. Now.)" You incorrigible racist fascist you. But seriously, there is an uncomfortable amount of good sense in the (Southern Agrarian) society that John Rolfe VI constructs. The only part that left a bad taste in my mouth is what you alreay mentioned elsewhere about SMS, which is an essential indifferentism to religion beyond what he needs to research. In Conquistador's alternate world, Christ never appeared.

On The Peshawar Lancers: That really *was* a ripping fun read, and a truly fantastic premise. I really hope he does a sequel.

Have you read his DRAKA series?


Gravatar Richard:

Re: Conquistador--About 70% of the reason for visiting is to see something unspoiled and teeming with life. Stirling's description of the Commonwealth left me wondering what the air tasted like, to be honest.

As to the social structure--hereditary aristocrats aren't exactly my bag. And the "white boy paradise" line used by the hippie physicist is very, very accurate. But there's a lot to be said for raising kids there. That, and the worst features of the Families tended to mellow with time. I probably would end up with the Pearlmutters in New Brooklyn, is all. Or maybe the O'Briens.

I also agree that the Agrarians were on to something--I think they would have gotten along pretty well with the Catholic Distributists (I'm tilting in that direction more every day), after they got past the anti-popery reflex.


Gravatar As to the Draka series--oh, yep. The whole thing:

Marching Through Georgia
Under The Yoke
The Stone Dogs
Drakon
Drakas!

[The above list for the benefit of those unfamiliar with the series.]

That's how I first started reading him--I stumbled across MTG back in my undergrad days, and was hooked. He writes so well that I managed to overlook the absolute implausibility of his alternate history, and still can to a certain extent. IIRC, even Stirling has admitted that it's not particularly plausible, but rather it is "a meditation on evil." It certainly is that.

I'd like to make another recommendation, too--The Chosen, set the "Center/General" universe created by David Drake. I recommend the entire "General" series as a background (a little gory in parts, and a little too glib in its parody of the old Arian/Orthodox battles, but worthwhile). But The Chosen is still probably reasonably accessible on its own, especially if you are familiar with the Draka.


Gravatar Oh, and another thing on Conquistador: I didn't like the way he handled the fate of Judaism and its offshoots either. The weak point of his thesis is that Judaism was remarkably well-rooted by the time of Alexander, and would have survived quite handily, as it did under Rome.

But you can also take it as a strong compliment to Christianity, too: without it, the world never gets out of medievalism.

In general, I'd say Stirling has a healthy respect for serious Christianity, and little to none for fundamentalist or liberal brands. He just gets a little too captivated by the minimalist scholarship he appears to consult.


Gravatar Agh--editing:

"The weak point of his thesis is that, leaving aside the supernatural guarantees of endurance, Judaism was remarkably well-rooted by the time of Alexander, and would have, even under a purely secular analysis, survived quite handily, as it did under Rome."


Gravatar So Dale ...

... should I expect that this year's Bambi season will be bowhunting for you?

Just in case.




peace,


Gravatar Oh, and count me as another one who notes a lot of common ground between the Southern Agrarians and Distributists.

I used to think I was a "liberal." Then I thought I was going "conservative." Now I realize I was groping my way towards Agrarian Distributism all along.


peace,


Gravatar I also agree that the Agrarians were on to something--I think they would have gotten along pretty well with the Catholic Distributists (I'm tilting in that direction more every day), after they got past the anti-popery reflex.

Agreed in full.

I fear bedroom communities, strip malls and megahighwys have lost their charms for me.

Tolkien would have regarded it all as a sanitized version of hell.

Likewise on "Marching Through Georgia" - I was working in a bookstore (a dangerous gig for me) in high school when I was captivated by the cover art. Stirling calls it a "dystopia" and that seems about right.

All alternate history has to grapple with the plausibility issue. But in the end it's about playing fun mental games. Though I have run into a couple hardcore RadTrads who think alternate history is sinful because it explores worlds/timelines other than the one God has ordained to be.

Haven't read "The Chosen." I do suggest that Eric Flint's "1632" is


Gravatar ...worth a look.

But I'll keep my eyes open for "The Chosen" - after I read "Dies the Fire," of course...


Gravatar That's a thoughtful review.

As to the Wiccans, that's how one group pulls through; the religion is part of the way it does so, using it to help build the sense of community and belonging which are so necessary in that context. The details of the belief aren't as important as the fact of belief itself; of course, the fact that the Change pretty well discredits scientistic materialism for most people helps.

And as one character comments in the sequel, it's a good religion for farmers -- the festivals all make sense if you're raising crops in the northern temperate zone.

Other groups hit on different methods.

Incidentally, traditionalist Catholics _are_ prominent among the other survivors, as will be brought out somewhat in the sequel, THE PROTECTOR'S WAR (out in August). Both good ones (the warrior monks of Mt. Angel form a major nucleus of survival) and bad ones (the Protector's church centered in Portland).




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