Focus is wrong on this. Protestants believe in 'visible' ecclesiological structures. Catholics believe there are false converts withing the rcc. Why not just discuss why you think protestant ecclesiology is wrong instead of bringing in a distinction everyone agrees with?
Hey Dave! I used to belong to the invisible church! Sometimes I was even invisible 
Glad I have now found the real Church which actually has an address. Steve Ray
Protestants differ amongst themselves, as always. So I say "A Protestant Might Further Object" as opposed to "All Protestants" or "Protestants".
Aren't we just talking semantics. I have to agree with Anonymous, I don't see any real debate here other than the standard debate on whether there's a visible church that is infallible on faith/morals and indefectible in that regard. Protestants disagree that there is such a church but not that there's no visible church or that the visible church is unnecessary. As well, everyone agrees that there is a visible-invisible distinction since not all who are in the church (visible) are saved -- Protestants just tend to call this invisible contingent (the saved or elect) as the "invisible church" whereas Catholics do not.
I don't think Dave's trying to say that Protestants dismiss visible "ecclesiological structures", or don't see a purpose for the visible church. Rather, in the multi-variety of Protestant circles, where is the visible church? Is it the Baptist church down the street that doesn't acknowledge my child's baptism? Some para-Baptist alliance? Or is it the Presbyterian church across the street that does acknowledge the baptism? Or the PCA in general? To which visible church (as it must be) do I turn to find the "pillar and bulwark"?
The Catholic Church would say, "this one, and none other". Would a baptist church say the same? I suppose maybe they would. But that would be implying a whole lot about non-Baptist Protestant Christians, things I have never heard my interdenominational friends imply about one another.
John Henry,
Where is the visible church? It depends, of course, on how one defines "church." Most Protestants would say a legitimate church (i.e., one that can be called "Christian") is where the word is preached (gospel of Jesus Christ, God and man, died and resurrected for our sins) and the sacraments (Eucharist and Baptism) dispensed. Hence, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. all recognize each other as part of the visible church -- and most Protestants (from Calvin to Barth) count the Roman Communion among the visible church, despite additions and errors from the Protestant perspective. (Of course I say "most" because there will always be fringe Prots who say otherwise, just as there are fringe Catholics who say all Prots are going to hell -- even the RCC herself refuses to call Protestant churches as true churches, for legitimate theological reasons from her perspective).
My problem with Dave's post was simply his targeting the Protestant visible/invisible distinction as illegitimate, defective thinking, when I think its a perfectly acceptable distinction. Of course Protestants can never point to one church, including their own, and say it is the one, indefectible church (as I noted above), but this is axiomatic with Protestant principles -- so if this is the arguing point, then argue that.
Just like our founder [Christ] had both body and spirit so too does the Catholic Church. We have both a visible body for the world to see as well as a spiritual invisible unity that is part of the mystical body of Christ. The world doesn't believe in what it cannot see, therefore a visible church is necessary for the world to see, know, and believe that Jesus is the Saviour.
Kevin D. what you have discrived is called the Christian Faith. Your claim that you are indeed a follower of Christ our risen Lord. And that you are for even as a protestant you are NOT denied that title of Christian.
However when a Catholic speaks of the Church and when the "reformers" refered to the Church we talk about the "Pillar and Foundation of Truth." There can not be 35,000 pillars there can only be one and it is only found in the Church that is Holy, Apostolic and Catholic.
Christ would never have left us without an indefectible church to guide us.
James
Seems to me that the protestant emphasis on the invisible church is based on their subordination of ecclesiology to predestination. What do you think Dave?
Commenting by HaloScan
