Thanks for compiling this information on Luther's belief in "soul sleep." I have to admit I'm kind of tickled that you didn't already know about it, and that I, of all people, would help bring something about Luther's confused religious opinion to your attention.
Of course, I knew about both Tyndale and Luther's opinions on this matter, since I used to belong to a seventh-day adventist sect that denied the immortality of the soul and insisted that the souls of the dead are unconscious. But I didn't know exactly what Luther thought, or whether he changed his mind, as he did on other matters. But I did know that Tyndale espoused the unconsciousness of the dead, and defended Luther when St. Thomas More denounced Luther's advocacy of the "soul sleep" heresy.
P.S. As for the connection between "soul sleep" and denial of purgatory, prayers to saints, Masses for the dead, it's not surprising to me that they were connected in Luther's mind. I had the same connection, and I have found other believers in "soul sleep" make the same association. How can you pray to a saint if the saint is asleep? Why pray for the souls of the deceased if they are unconscious and at rest?
It's very good that, in so many things, the Lutherans did not follow their founder's opinions, but recovered the orthodox teaching.
Dave said, "It's always good to read the primary sources, isn't it?"
LOL! Its coming back to bite James in the rear.
Anyway, all I can say is wow. How could Luther get this wrong? Weren't the Scriptures clear enough? I wonder how much this issue has been swept under the rug, because I have never come across it until today. The fact is it is heretical.
The way Swan talks about how this or that comment of Luther was "not dogmatic" is humorous and silly. Who does Luther think he is to parade around using his opinion to decide what is true or false? God forbid a Catholic apologist make such a slip in doctrine, yet the second Messiah of Protestants couldnt keep his doctrine straight from one day to the next, and even in issues like this soul sleep I wonder if it has been swept under the rug.
From those quotes, contrary to Swan's claims, Luther does not appear to be taking a "cautious" approach here, but rather presents soul sleep as certainly plausible and his personal leaning.
I am very glad to have read this, it is just one more nail in the coffin and testimony of just how confused, deranged and dangerous Luther was.
Apparently N.T.Wright, a mostly orthodox, evangelical type of British Anglican Bishop, has just come out in favour of soul sleep.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pa...m/?
pageId=56071
He is a little more nuanced than that, but it may be worth exploring his concepts of life after death before the end of time when we receive new bodies in the new heaven and new earth.
Thanks, Wayen. If I remember right, John Stott, who I believe is also an evangelical sort of Anglican, also believes in soul sleep, or at least conditional immortality and/or annihilationism.
I have strengthened my argument by adding (roughly in the middle of the post) a further citation from Luther, from the biography by Michelet, the thoughts of Lutheran Luther biographer Julius Köstlin, and also of current-day scholars Bruce Demarest and Gordon Lewis. These all help to establish the notion that in Luther's mind soul sleep precluded purgatory by denying a crucial premise of purgatory (i.e., conscious souls that "occupy" it).
Dave, you said: So in one fell swoop, Luther eliminates purgatory and prayer for the dead, based on a denial (with some exceptions) of the immortality of the soul,
That's not really correct -- he wasn't denying the immortality of the soul, but the consciousness of the dead. I think it would be more accurate to say that Luther thought the souls of the departed were still alive, but in a sleeping state, unconscious or mostly unconscious.
itself based on fallacious and shoddy biblical exegesis and false equation of biblical Christianity with pagan Greek philosophy. This would follow logically, even if Luther had not expressly connected the two things in his own words, but since he himself has made the association, we know that he was aware of his own rationale (at least in part) for ditching these previous Christian beliefs. Luther may be a bit unsure about soul sleep, but he is flat-out certain that purgatory and prayers for the dead are abominations, based on his unsure opinion on soul sleep.
In Part Two of his analysis, Swan writes: "Now, one has to deal with information that contradicts one’s own position." I'm sure he'll follow his own advice. He also utilizes a secondary source for Luther (A Compend of Luther's Theology: Hugh Kerr, Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1943), and ends up citing the same Luther utterance that I presented above (from a primary Luther source). But since he got it second-hand, he apparently missed the causal connection between the soul-sleep and denial of purgatory and prayers for the dead that Luther himself makes.
It's always good to read the primary sources, isn't it? "Ad fontes": as some like to say . . . Either Kerr omitted the crucial second paragraph, or presented it and Swan missed it. In any event, such thinking forms no basis for his analysis. Failing that, Swan (rather humorously, with the benefit of the present information) chides his Adventist ideological opponent for not properly reading the context of a secondary Luther source:
Whoops, I guess I copy-pasted more than I thought I did!
Yep; I'll correct that statement. Thanks.
Dave,
I stopped in at Rice U and checked the Luther reference from What Luther Says. Apparently James Swan made a partial mistake in citing it, as it comes from vol. 1 (not vol. 3), pp. 384- 385 of WLS. Also, I copied pages 384-85 and scanned them at home using the OCR software. The result, with a bit of tweaking, is what you see below. And as you can see, I’ve included a page image and a couple of pics of the Luther anthology which I took with the o’l cell-cam.
http://thumbsnap.com/v/qdreWh4t.jpg
http://thumbsnap.com/v/SI3K34yZ.jpg
http://thumbsnap.com/v/xjrBClCF.jpg
From pp. 384-38:
WHAT SCRIPTURE tells us about life after death is stated in general terms. We must check our longing for information that is specific. Luther was either silent or ventured only modest personal conjectures concerning matters about which the Bible had nothing to say. But he was certain that life continues after death, as we know from a statement Heydenreich reports that he made at table one evening in the winter of 1543-44.
1129: What After Death?
It is true, souls hear, think, see after death, but how they do it we do not understand ....
If we think of it in terms of this life, we are fools. Christ has nicely solved it, for no doubt His disciples were also curious to know. "He that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" (John 11:25). Again, "Whether we live or die, we are the Lord's" (Rom.14:8 ). (W-T 5, No. 5534) http://books.google.com/books?id...h%22&lr=&
pgis=1
BUT SCRIPTURE does not tell us in detail everything that is implied in "being-the Lord's" after death and before the resurrection of the body. In his interpretation of Eccl. 9: 10 Luther has the following to say about this matter (526).
1130: Is the Soul in Unconscious Sleep?
The dead lie there, counting neither days nor years, but will imagine when they awake that they have slept scarcely' a moment. The nether region (infernus) [21] designates the pit, or the grave (sepulchrum). According to my judgment, it really designates that hidden recess in which the dead sleep beyond this life whence (unde) the soul goes to its place, whatever its nature may be, for geographical (corporalis) it cannot be. You must therefore understand that here the nether region means that which contains the souls, a sort of grave for the soul, outside this geographic world, just as then earth is the grave of the body. But precisely what it is we do not know. (W 20, 162 - E 21, 198 - SL 5, 1539)
Cont…
HOWEVER, we do know that the soul is not a blank. In some blessed sense it knows God and even serves Him. Luther holds that the words of Gen. 26:24 have this plain implication.
1131: There Is Life in the Intermediate State.
It is certain that to this day Abraham is serving God, just as Adam, Abel, Noah are serving God. And this
we should carefully note; for it is divine truth that Abraham is living, serving God, and ruling with Him. But what sort of life that may be, whether he is asleep or awake, is another question. How the soul is resting we are not to know, but it is certain that it is living. (W 43, 480E op ex 6, 329 - SL 2, 216)
THE LAST EXPRESSION indicates that the precise condition of departed souls was not entirely clear to Luther. Earlier in his lectures on Genesis, when speaking of the death of Abraham, he had wrestled with the
problem at greater length and had arrived at some rather paradoxical, if not incongruous, conclusions (Gen. 25: 7-10).
1132: Much Remains a Mystery to Us.
But at this point another question arises. Since it is certain that the souls live in peace, what sort of life or rest may this be? However, this question is too ambitious and difficult for us to answer. For God did not want us to understand the mooted matter in this life. We should, therefore, be satisfied to know that souls do not leave their bodies only to be threatened by the torments and punishments of hell,. but that a chamber has been prepared for them in which they rest in peace. However, there is a difference between the sleep or rest of this life and that of the future life. For in this life a man, fatigued by the days work, enters his bedroom at night in order there to sleep in peace and to enjoy rest during the night. Nor is he conscious of any evil that is happening, be it fire or murder. But the departed soul does not sleep in this manner; it is, more properly speaking, awake and has visions and conversations with the angels and God. Therefore the sleep of the future life is deeper than that of this life, and yet the soul lives before God. With this image, drawn from the sleep of a living man, I am satisfied; for peace and quiet dwell in such a man. He thinks that he has slept scarcely an hour or two, and yet he observes that the soul sleeps in such a way that it is awake at the same time. Thus the soul enters its chamber and peace after death and is at rest, though it is not conscious of its sleep, and God keeps the soul awake in it. [22] (W 43, 360 - E op ex 6, 120SL 1, 1759)
Cont…
Notes:
21. The Hebrew original has sheol , which
the Greek Septuagint renders [Sorry, my OCR software wasn't able to reproduce the Greek letters]
22. Under date of January 13, 1522, Luther replied to certain questions of his friend Amsdorf.
Here, too, he expresses his inability dogmatically to decide and determine the precise status of the departed. The references of Scripture to the matter are rather general, he points out. W-Br2, 421£., SL 15, 2557f.
And of course, this is the Bonnet ed. of Calvin’s letters. http://thumbsnap.com/v/hvfUQsZR.jpg
Vol. 4 btw, is now up at the Archive. http://www.archive.org/details/
l...hncal04calvuoft
I added a table of contents to What Luther Says.
http://worldcat.org/oclc/743839?...839?
tab=details Just scroll down.
Thanks very much, Ben. Plass doesn't seem to make any connection between soul sleep as a knockout punch for purgatory. So if Swan was only reading these secondary sources at crucial junctures then he would miss that, I suppose.
AD FONTES!!!!
Dave: Even though I am in Jerusalem, I try to keep up with your blog.
Nice job! Jesus once said, "Judge not that ye be not judged." It always strikes me as ironic when people judge us so quickly (about using primary vs. secondary sources) and then do the exact same thing. No one would ever criticize them had they not stood in judgement on this matter themselves.
Anyway, nice work and i wil post a link to this on my blog. Steve Ray
Thanks Steve. Hope all is well. I did a radio interview today that was fun (a station in Omaha). They archive their shows, so it'll be easily available.
Well, I guess this information puts a lid on those rumors of people seeing Luther's ghost.
This might be off topic but...
Here is what NT Wright supports, I obtained this quote from another site:
Wright definitely does not advocate soul sleep. He thinks that the intermediate state is some sort of restful, conscious existence in the presence of the Lord (hence the use of 'paradise' as a description which wouldn't make much sense in terms of soul sleep), until the day of resurrection when we will be re-embodied.
To quote from Surprised by Hope: "all the Christian dead are in substantially the same state, that of restful happiness. Though this is sometimes described as 'sleep', we shouldn't take this to mean that it is a state of unconsciousness. Had Paul thought that, I very much doubt that he would have described life immediately after death as 'being with Christ, which is far better'. Rather, 'sleep' here means that the body is 'asleep' in the sense of 'dead', while the real person - however we want to describe him or her - continues.
... it is a state in which the dead are held firmly within the conscious love of God and the conscious presence of Jesus Christ, while they await that day. There is no reason why this state should not be called 'heaven', though we must note once more how interesting it is that the New Testament routinely doesn't call it that, and uses the word 'heaven' in other ways." pp.183-184
Explicitly, Wright states that "the Christian dead are conscious" (p. 185). This is from the section in the book on ‘Paradise’, pp. 183-187
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