Why isn't St. Augustine a friend of the Catholic cause? Because he believed in unconditional election, the principle of predilection, and the infallible efficacy of grace? I believe all that too.
I have two other things you should add:
Augustine believed in the Deuterocanonical Books:
On Christian Doctrine, Bk 2, Ch 8
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers...thers/
12022.htm
St Augustine believed John 6 was in reference to the Eucharist. Dave you only quoted the first part of paragraph 11 of his talk on Psalm 34:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers...ers/
1801034.htm
Thanks. I think I'll add the deutero thing and another on contraception, to make an even 30 topics. I like round numbers. 
I didn't cover either topic in my book, which is why those weren't included.
Hey again, Dave:
Here's a question. You quote Augustine as saying: "Unintelligent persons, however, with regard to the apostle's statement...have thought him to mean that faith suffices to a man, even if he lead a bad life, and has no good works."
If Augustine was refuting sola fide teachings here, that means that people ("unintelligent" people, as he charitably calls them) were teaching sola fide when Augustine was around...but according to you and other Catholics, I thought sola fide wasn't taught until Luther? Who were these people teaching sola fide that Augustine was refuting, and how do you square their existance way back in the 300s AD with your assertion that Luther basically invented the doctrine?
Anonymous,
Who were these people teaching sola fide that Augustine was refuting, and how do you square their existance way back in the 300s AD with your assertion that Luther basically invented the doctrine?
Well, they were the “bad Catholics,” many of them; the Luther's and Calvin’s of the fourth century; the “heretical leaders,” about whom Augustine warned:
“Heretical leaders, though, wish to make their own the sheep that are really Christ’s; all the same the are force, willy-nilly, to set the stamp of Christ on them; to make them their own private flock, and yet to register them in the Lord’s name. But what does divine scripture say to such people in the Song of Songs? You see, the bridegroom is addressing the bride, Christ the Church, and saying, Unless you recognize yourself, O beautiful among women. What’s beautiful among women? Catholic among heresies.” --- Sermon 229O:3:2, Works, pt. 3, vol. 7, p. 325.
“When bad members of the clergy hear this that is said against them in this text, they try to twist the meaning.” --- Sermon 137:7:1, Works, pt. 3, vol. 4, p. 376.
“You read God’s book in order to sin, you listen to God’s scriptures for the purpose of doing something that displeases God.” Exposition of Ps. 50, vs. 1-2, No.3:2, p. 412. Part 3, Vol. 16, ISBN 1565481461 (sounds like a Philip of Hesse or a Bill Clinton – always looking for a loophole in the moral law!)
But you see, there's really nothing new under the sun. Always always, there are those who would interpret Scripture according to their own purposes. But they are not the “Church,” though sometimes they’re within the Church. But whether “bad Catholics” within, or heretics without, the fact remains, neither one has the authority to impose his private opinions on the Church. Now listen just a bit more, as Augustine again warns his congregation about them, especially those who hold to "faith alone."
“And if we were to discuss all heresies, we would find they all deny Christ has come in the flesh. All heretics deny that Christ has come in the flesh. Why be surprised if the pagans deny that Christ has come in the flesh? Why be surprised if the Jews deny that Christ has come in the flesh? But I must tell your graces (a term Augustine frequently uses when addressing his congregation) that all bad Catholics too confess in words that Christ has come in the flesh; but by their deeds they deny it. So don’t be to smug, so to say, and self-assured about the faith. Join an upright life to right faith, so that you may confess that Christ has come in the flesh, both by speaking the truth in words and by living a good life in deeds. Because if you confess it in words and deny it by deeds - the faith of such bad people is practically the faith of demons.” Sermon, 183:13:1, pp.342-343
“When the apostle James was talking about faith and works against those who thought their faith was enough, and
continued...
“When the apostle James was talking about faith and works against those who thought their faith was enough, and didn’t want to have good works, he said, You believe God is one; you do well; the demons also believe, and tremble.” (Jas 2:19) Sermon 183:13:2, p. 343.
Works, pt. 3, vol. 5, (1992). ISBN 1565480074
“You forgive sinners who confess; yes, you forgive them, but only when the sinners punish themselves.” Exposition of Ps. 50, v.8, No. 11:1, p. 419.
The Works of Saint Augustine, Exposition on the Psalms (33-50), Part 3, Vol. 16, ISBN 1565481461
“He is going to come as a judge, let us not bear the yoke with unbelievers. He is also going to resuscitate the corpses of the dead; let us deserve this transfiguration of the body by a transformation of our minds. He is going to set the bad on his left, the good on his right; LET US CHOOSE OUR PLACE WITH GOOD WORKS.” Sermon 229D: 1 “On the Holy Day of Easter,” Vol. 6, pt.3, ISBN 1565480503
But then again, what does Augustine know?
Hey Ben,
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunatelyl, you didn't really answer my question. You don't need to try to prove, any more than Dave already has, that Augustine was basically "Catholic" in his soteriology. Let's just accept that for the sake of argument here. If, as Catholics so often claim, Luther "invented" the doctrine of sola fide, then how can it be that there were people in the 4th century believing/teaching it?
By the way, call me Nick; I'm just not signed in at the moment. :D
My claim (rightly understood in context) isn't that no one whatsoever taught it (there are always heretics at all times), but rather, that virtually no important Church Father did. No one can fail to be struck by how great the consensus is.
Hey Dave,
Fair enough; so then who taught it exactly? Can you give me names of people, groups, etc? Thanks.
Nick
Hi Nick,
Dave’s absolutely right, the use of “invent” is highly contextual.
I might even go a bit further and say that, strictly speaking, “invent” may not be the best word to use here after all, since it can be easily misunderstood, and since the reformers (from the Catholic view) were basically but (not exactly) just rehashing old heresies.
But just to help clarify a bit more. When Catholic writers say that Luther ‘invented’ SF (and Sola Scipt.), what they are basically saying (as I understand it) is that Luther revived an ancient heresy and re-packaged it in such a way as to successfully convince a large portion of the Christian world that his was the true andancient faith, the pure gospel, which had been “corrupted” by the “traditions of men” - popes, cardinals, and bishops; I'm sure you know the drill.
Now I would say that in that rather limited sense just described (there may be others), sola fide could, and indeed should, be called an “invention.” But listen, Nick, I know all this stuff, and still I use the term “invention” when discussing sola fide or sola scriptura; and I’m being perfectly honest and accurate when rightly understood. It’s just a convenient though not always the best way of talking. Wouldn’t you agree?
As for the actual ideas of sola fide and sola scriptura themselves (in somewhat different forms perhaps), you are quite correct in thinking that they were around in the fourth century. In fact, like almost all heretical notions, they were even old in the fourth century! Dave for example has rightly pointed out that,
"[v]irtually all the all the heretics of the early Church period based themselves on Scripture alone…” http://books.google.com/books?as..._maxy=&
as_isbn=
And the Fathers had to battle these folks. But that’s why it is so important for all Christians to have a least a rudimentary knowledge of Church history. And also probably why the reformers, to my knowledge anyway, never exhorted their followers to read and study Church history. They knew all too well what effect it would have on their cause.
Fair enough; so then who taught it exactly? Can you give me names of people, groups, etc? Thanks.
Augustine sometimes refers to them simply as, “Mr. heretic.” 
Couldn't resist!
Peace.
Fair enough; so then who taught it exactly? Can you give me names of people, groups, etc? Thanks.
That is the burden of proof for the Protestant, not Catholics like myself. If they claim their views were present in the teaching of some major Christian figure, then by all means, let them prove to us who these people are. Why should I do their work for them. When I study patristic soteriology, it looks like Catholicism to me, and sure as Hades not any species of Protestantism I am familiar with.
I have added the final two sections: on the deuterocanonical books and contraception, since the initial posting.
Dave,
Thanks for the quotation on the Deuterocanonicals. I hadn't seen it before. I'm surprised as to how many books he calls the "Prophets." I'm also surprised at his comment that Wisdom was written by Ben Sira. I hadn't seen that thought before. I also don't agree, but it is interesting nonetheless.
hey dave.........just wanted you to know that I made a blog post about this:
http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com...-
augustine.html
thank you for your work, my friend
pax christi,
nick hardesty
Are Augustine's "Sermons" in English online? I cannot find them a the New Advent website nor at the ccel.org site.
Difficult to check out many of the quotes for context because of that.
I don't believe they are included in the CCEL collection. I don't know if they are somewhere else.
Augustine:
". . . when man by his own free will sinned, then sin being victorious over him, the freedom of his will was lost." Enchiridion, chapter 30
". . . it was by the evil use of his free will that man destroyed both it and himself." Ibid., Enchiridion, 30
Cited in R. C. Sproul, Willing to Believe, p. 63-64
Augustine, Enchiridion, (Handbook of Faith, Hope,and Love), 30
For the fuller context:
30. But now, can that part of the human race to whom God hath promised deliverance and a place in the eternal Kingdom be restored through the merits of their own works? Of course not! For what good works could a lost soul do except as he had been rescued from his lostness? Could he do this by the determination of his free will? Of course not! For it was in the evil use of his free will that man destroyed himself and his will at the same time. For as a man who kills himself is still alive when he kills himself, but having killed himself is then no longer alive and cannot resuscitate himself after he has destroyed his own life—so also sin which arises from the action of the free will turns out to be victor over the will and the free will is destroyed. "By whom a man is overcome, to this one he then is bound as slave." II Peter 2:19. This is clearly the judgment of the apostle Peter. And since it is true, I ask you what kind of liberty can one have who is bound as a slave except the liberty that loves to sin?
He serves freely who freely does the will of his master. Accordingly he who is slave to sin is free to sin. But thereafter he will not be free to do right unless he is delivered from the bondage of sin and begins to be the servant of righteousness. This, then, is true liberty: the joy that comes in doing what is right. At the same time, it is also devoted service in obedience to righteous precept.
But how would a man, bound and sold, get back his liberty to do good, unless he could regain it from Him whose voice saith, "If the Son shall make you free, then you will be free indeed" John 8:36? But before this process begins in man, could anyone glory in his good works as if they were acts of his free will, when he is not yet free to act rightly? He could do this only if, puffed up in proud vanity, he were merely boasting. This attitude is what the apostle was reproving when he said, "By grace you have been saved by faith." (Ephesians 2:8.)
From the www.ccel.org
Early Church fathers web site.
"Therefore they possess not the faith by which the just man lives,—"
www.ccel.org
Augustine, On Grace and Free Will, chapter 18 --
read the whole paragraph 18
At first glance, your quote from Augustine's "on Grace and Free will" chapter 18, under "Sola Fide" seems to be solid proof; but reading the whole chapter 18, all of it is perfectly consistent with the proper understanding of Sola Fide; because Augustine says that that kind of faith, that does not produce good works, is not true faith, it is mere intellectual assent, the "faith" of demons, who believe in God and shudder.
So, Augustine may not have understood "sola Fide" the way Luther and Calvin did; but this passage cannot be used by you to say that.
Here is an example of just one, if we read further, we get the fuller context and meaning of what Augustine really meant. I am not saying that they are all like this; but some certainly are.
Augustine was "catholic", but not Roman Catholic.
Protestants admit he had non-Protestant views of infant baptismal regeneration, the Apocrypha (Jerome was correct and Augustine was wrong on that); the Perpetual virginity of Mary, and because of Latin, he did not understand the forensic nature of justification.
But he was closer to Protestantism on issues of grace needed to awaken the dead soul, the bondage of the will, the freedom of the will; predestination, election, and God's Sovereignty.
Ken wrote: "Augustine was 'catholic', but not Roman Catholic."
St. Augustine wrote: "For my part, I should not believe the Gospel except moved by the authority of the Catholic Church." (-Against the Epistle of Manichaeus)
Tell me Ken which authority St. Augustine was talking about here? Obviously, he was wiling and, in fact, submitting to an authority here, right? Now, if YOU yourself will use the same exact text and you will say the same exact words St. Augustine used on this epistle at the same time frame he existed, tell me, which Catholic Church would you be refering to here? (By the way, please be mindful of St. Augustine's settings, and most importantly please try to be honest and fair. It is not right to use a text out of context).
Great post, Dave. This Augustine-as-a-proto-Protestant thing is always very curious to me. I presume it arises from much misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine on their part, and an ignoring of much of the contrary data. Take as an example our friend, Ken:
Protestants admit he had non-Protestant views of infant baptismal regeneration, the Apocrypha (Jerome was correct and Augustine was wrong on that); the Perpetual virginity of Mary, and because of Latin, he did not understand the forensic nature of justification.
But what prevents Protestants from admitting that Augustine was more Catholic when it comes to the other 30-odd things Dave lists. Even if we concede that for some of these things, he espoused "early" "pre-developed" versions of contemporary Catholic doctrine, surely they are nevertheless anathema to Protestantism. I assume it is at least partly because the main rallying cry of the Reformation was the solas, and so not much effort is put into caring much about stuff that doesn't relate to the solas.
But he was closer to Protestantism on issues of grace needed to awaken the dead soul, the bondage of the will, the freedom of the will; predestination, election, and God's Sovereignty.
This view, I think, is more related to misunderstandings of Catholic doctrine. Certainly, it is Catholic teaching that grace is absolutely required to awaken the dead soul. That the unregenerate soul can in no way perform supernaturally good works (in St. Augustine's words, "meritorious works"). When it comes to predestination, the Augustinian/Thomist views accept unconditional election (though other views are permitted within the Church). But the trick is to understand that none of these things contradict the fact that "he does not justify you without your willing it" (to quote St. A again). He is Soveriegn. Without his grace, we are dead. And yet his grace can be rejected. So there is a mysterious interplay between his grace and our will.
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