I think people give up on Catholic parishes way too quick. There are people who are spiritually alive. You just have to make more of an effort. A lot of it comes down to how important sacraments are. I don't think this guy grasps the importance of the eucharist.
I went to both churches for a long time. I really enjoyed the music and preaching in my protestant church. The kids programs were better as well. We gave it up when the family go to big. It was just too much to do every Sunday. Still there was no choice as to which church we would stop going to.
We can't negotiate with God. You can't decide I can only be "on fire" if I can have funky music and a large, active youth group. You can't decide I am going to be "luke warm" if I go to a contemplative mass at a parish with few youth. You need to connect with God through His church. You need to have God light your fire and not depend on externals. It is hard. It is not impossible.
He made it a point to say that one mustn't forsake the Eucharist. That wasn't the issue. It was whether a Catholic can supplement Mass attendance with participation in largely wonderful Protestant activities.
It's undeniable that Catholics have failed to a great degree in fostering the sort of "extra-curricular" activities, Bible studies, small groups, Sunday school, prayer groups, outreaches, youth groups, etc., that Protestants have done very good at. I don't even think that's arguable, as a generalization. There are always exceptions, of course.
The famous quote, "be the change that you want to see in the world" comes to mind when discussing the extra-curricular protestant vs. Catholic activities. The Catholic Church lacks nothing...it just needs its faithful to be the change that we want. Too often it is though we wait for someone else and merely complain. Sadly, protestants do more with much less. Imagine what Catholic parishes could do with the depth of resources available to us.
Exactly. I'm saying: "learn from where our Protestant brethren do good things right, and successfully." It has nothing to do with compromise, and everything to do with intelligence and wisdom in promulgating the faith and raising Catholic disciples to transform the world.
He made it a point to say that one mustn't forsake the Eucharist.
Yes, but then he ended the article by praising somebody who stopped going to mass and started going to a megachurch. That is where it ends up. The theology of this church was not even important. It is all about having a positive experience. But did Jesus promise us a positive church experience?
As far as bible studies go, I do think they can be started pretty easy. I was running one for a couple years in my parish. I will try to get one started in a local prison soon. If you talk to your priest you will be shocked how many doors can open up.
Yes, but then he ended the article by praising somebody who stopped going to mass and started going to a megachurch.
No; that (presnted in that fashion) is a distortion of what he was arguing. Here is the section at the end:
"We want to be careful never to ever encourage any Catholic to ever leave the sacraments. But at this point in his life, Ted may be using the right reason to get closer to God."
That's not praising someone who stopped going to Mass. You have to understand his argument in context. He is saying that people may have right reasons in a limited, non-exclusionary sense, to attend Protestant functions. Note the phrase, "at this point in his life", too, which means that Stan agreed only in a qualified sense.
He makes it very clear that no Catholic should replace the Mass with something else:
"Never stop attending Mass . . ."
"To supplement your spiritual life, if a vibrant Catholic Bible study and/or small group are not available, attend an Evangelical Bible Study or prayer group . . ."
"As you fellowship with Protestants, prepare yourself to humbly and accurately defend the teachings of the Catholic Church."
From a letter from Stan Williams:
"I'm surprised in looking over the CE comments, that people read my essay with such haste, and non-comprehension. I said never give up the sacraments, and people are acting like I said just the opposite."
LOL, no wonder Dave likes it, he is quoted in the article. 
I understand the author's point but the problem is he should not say stuff like, "If you can't find another Catholic parish that spiritually edifies and strengthens your family, then by all means plug into a Christian fellowship that will — even if it is not Catholic..."
That is very dangerous advice because it is a sure way to lead Catholics to abandon the Church and Sacraments. Many Catholics have in fact abandoned the faith because of what they see as more "entertaining" worship and Bible "studies" which on the outside appear invigorating but often in fact lack the theological and magisterial guidance resulting in a watered down Gospel (if not outright heretical gospel).
The Catholics he is offering this suggestion to are ALREADY weak and should not be put in a situation of temptation like that. If the Catholic is strong in their faith they can attend Protestant services without worry, but that is not the case for most other Catholics.
He goes onto say:
"As you fellowship with Protestants, prepare yourself to humbly and accurately defend the teachings of the Catholic Church."
The problem is I doubt most Catholics are up for that and especially not "Jack" and "Judy". The Catholic Church used to greatly look down upon attending Protestant services (I think it was even forbidden). At this point in Church history we need to wait out the storm, and I honestly believe we are coming out of it stronger than ever. We should not be tempting people to "test the waters", especially if they cant even swim.
See my further defenses of the article over at Catholic Exchange:
http://www.catholicexchange.com/...de/67123?
page=1
I read the article in horror. Whatever the author 'intended' to say and what he came off as saying were--if we are to take his and Dave's interp of it--two different things, a common problem when one *fudges* the truth. I would recommend to anyone here struggling with this to read Pio Nono's Syllabus of Errors (and I expect to see Dave slander me as a RadTrad for dragging out the Syllabus, of course) and then decide whether or not Williams' or Dave's advice is in accord with Mother Church. Like one of the people said over at Catholic Exchange:
" I believe it could be dangerous to one's Catholic faith to attend evangelical groups. A faithful beginner could come away confused about the Truth. These are not ecumenical groups. There is no mention of sacraments, Mary, the Eucharist, magisterium, saints, liturgical calendar, Sacred Tradition, and so forth. Eventually, I stopped attending these non Catholic studies, despite the people who were friendly and outgoing on their evangelical terms, because I missed being Catholic and didn't want to put my faith to the test."
Exactly! Indeed, the Church exhorts us NOT to put our Faith in jeopardy--I like how my prayer book's Examination of Conscience (an Opus Dei publication) puts it: "Did I endanger my Faith by joining or attending meetings of organizations opposed to the Catholic Faith, like non-Catholic services, Freemasonic meetings, 'new age' cults, or other religions? Did I take part in one of its activities?"
But are these "Bible studies" (so harmless sounding!) "opposed to the Catholic Faith"? As long as they are run by Protestants (who by their mere teachings still effectively 'protest' Rome, even if they reject the title), yes. As the comment above so succinctly put it:
" These are not ecumenical groups. There is no mention of sacraments, Mary, the Eucharist, magisterium, saints, liturgical calendar, Sacred Tradition, and so forth." [AND, I would add, they have a manifestly anti-Catholic bias when it comes to their interpretation of Scripture.]
So why go? "Fellowship"? What relationship has Truth to error? Prots ARE IN ERROR. Why yoke yourself to them in even the most superficial way by attending quasi-ecumenical "Bible studies" with them UNLESS there is the real chance you can lead them out of ERROR and into the fullness of Truth? That and that alone should be the impetus for attending such meetings, and is (I would suspect, unless Dave's interp of VII is correct, which means VII contradicted numerous statements made by popes and the magesterium since Trent) behind VII's statement:
" The sacred Council exhorts, therefore, all the Catholic faithful to recognize the signs of the times and take an active and intelligent part in the work of ecumenism."
I agree whole-heartedly: CONVERT Protestants, Jews, Muslims, bad Catholics, the Orthodox, Hindus and so forth through ecumenical dialogue. As Benedict XVI (long may he reign!) has said
.... As Benedict XVI (long may he reign!) has said: NO MORE ASSISI CONFERENCES. That kind of "dialogue" is a mistake and never, ever led anywhere.
Commenting by HaloScan
