"The march and counter-protest have sparked a lot of discussion over at OlyBlog, where some of the contributors and commenters have suggested that it might have been better to ignore them or, perhaps, to have held a counter-rally in a place other than the Nazis' venue."
This comment reminded me of a time back in junior high school in the early 80's. There was this one kid who was at least 2-4 inches shorter than me but had always been surrounded by flunkies who backed him up and his sham repuation as a tough guy. I was not inclined to get into fights back then and seldom had to since I was much taller and bigger than other kids at the time. Yet this didn't stop this kid from thinking he could bully me around. Up until that point he and his group had ignored me as a target cause of my size but I could tell they thought they had measured me up when they saw on some occasions where I turned away from getting into fights with other kids. When the kid started getting into my face more and more often bystanders could see that by not facing up to him I was actually pouring fuel on the fire of his arrogance. The fact that I was inches taller and at least 50lbs heavier no longer held any impact once the threat of me throwing it around was identified as non-existent.
Then one day in the locker area he went from unprovoked verbal hostility to physical abuse merely by my having glanced in his general direction. Something for which in his insane bully world was an affront to his 13 year old manlyhood. He raised his fists and started juking like we were in a mock boxing ring, trying to show off and figured he could punch me at any time and earn some reputation points out of it. But I would have none of it. I swung a haymaker and caught him clearly in the jaw which sent him flying back into the lockers. He managed to keep his balance long enough to realize his f*cked up strategy had failed and he quickly ran for it back to the safety of his buddies who immediately came and tried to rescue their friend's rep by intimidating me. Knowing that swearing out loud usually drew the attention of teachers followed by detention I loudly and proudly accused the kid of being a complete pussy for hiding behind his bitches. By this time a crowd had developed and the chants of 'FIGHT! FIGHT!' started to increase in decibels. His friends clearly tried to take the initiative and stop my threat to their powerbase but I was already pissed at not being able to get to my locker once without this jerk tossing verbal assaults on me. A teacher soon arrived, drawn by the noise and when he did he demanded to know what was going on. The two boys pulled the lamest stunt and accused me of doing something(I can't remember exactly what it was) that kept them from leaving and getting to class. I was at that point more than willing to accept a detention so I remarked that if I was keeping them from class then I should make it a bit more permanent and punched one of the two flunkies in the nose, nearly breaking it, but causing enough blood to earn me a suspension and a rep of my own. From that point on I was always surrounded by those being bullied and the bullies avoided me even though it was clear that if they jumped me in groups they could have taken me. I had made sure my actions had obtained maximum exposure in calling them out and making them experience some pain for a change.
Though I got a suspension I argued my point clear to the dean of students who made sure that the bully and his flunkies were aware that any more incidents involving them would result in suspensions of their own for it was not the first time they had been caught in the act.
It worked. They stopped or at least kept it off campus, and they certainly kept it away from me.
Violence worked. Opposing them might for might worked. Letting them think they can get away with it only emboldens them.
The nazis need to be taught this same lesson, each and every new generation of them until they and their kind die out alone and unheard.
MYOB'
.
and if he'd ducked your punch and nailed you?
what then? you were lucky, plain and simple.
having said that, i've been in the same situation and had the same results.
Always good to get their photos, and if possible, license plates. You never know what might turn up.
Bravo to the counter-protesters.
MYOB - My step-brother had a similar situation while we were in high school, except that he was the smaller guy and the bully was the captain of the football team. To make a long story short, the captain of the football team never messed with my step-brother again. It always makes my day when decent people win out against thugs of any stripes.
Thanks for helping us process this weird and unnerving event in sleepy ol' Olympia. It has caused a lot soul-searching amonst the peace community, and it sure helps to have the perspective of someone with more experience to map the terrain.
I think I have to respectfully disagree, Dave... What these bastards reacted to in Olympia was the perception of force. That's the response for which they were unprepared - they showed up with a knife to a gun fight. If you want to pretend that face-to-face confrontation (however peaceful on the surface) isn't a display of force... well... Let's just say that unless I'm misreading you, I think you're deluding yourself.
No, I don't think that standing up to them constitutes the use of force, particularly not in circumstances like these.
I think that letting them know with your presence and your voices that their hate has no place in your community is vital. That's not the use of force; it's the essence of democracy, good speech countering bad speech. Believe me, it forces them to shed any illusions they have about representing the real community. And they now know that their bullshit is going to be a tough sell in Olympia -- something they seem to have believed not to be the case.
But I have to add that hate can't be defeated with hate. I hope that next time out, the counter-protest organizers have a talk with everyone about a winning strategy behavior-wise.
In Denmark, there is a Nazi party that runs for local elections in a few municipalities (and gets about 70 votes). At one time they inherited a house from someone, and turned it into their headquater. The local people of the town where the house was placed, were not happy, and made some anti-Nazi demonstrations. These quickly turned into a march every evening, that ended with a candle-light virgil and singing in front of the house - it was not huge numbers every evening, but there were people every evening, often including prominent people like the municipality's mayor, and some times visiting politicians.
After a few weeks of this, the Nazis packed up, and left.
Initially there were some aggressive confrontation, which forced the police to step in and protect the Nazis, but later there were just the show of disapproval, and a pressure to leave. The later turned out to be much more efficient in the long run.
My own gut instincts would be to kick some nazi ass myself, to be honest.
Certainly there seems little to be proud off in allowing nazis to hold parades in your streets for 25 years or more --but we have counter protests!
Whoopie.
The fact that a small number of evil people came out in a communist-dominated town to fight against the National Socialist Movement does not discourage us in the least.
We are the gold in the furnace -- and without the furnace, it becomes hard to separate the gold from the base metal and chaffe.
LOL
Gold in the furnace? More like the shit in the septic system.
I agree with standing firm. Ignoring does not work. It is ignoring the obviously ridiculous claims of dominionists over the last 10-20 years have placed them into the position of being a powerful and dangerous religious minority.
The also ridiculous claims of NSM are easily spotted. I am concerned about the undercurrent of the Creativity Movement and racism becoming more sublte. I have a freshman in college who is a toying with ideas that are decidedly racist, under the guise of "cultural pride." He does not see this as a potentially racist position, or at least in the idealism of youth he seems eager to believe in the fallacy of "I will respect their culture too."
I am not sure parents of children like mine, from households like mine know how subtle racism is becoming.
I am keeping a hand on the pulse of this one, and challenge him any chance I get, but man-o-man.
Big and ugly is easy to spot. It's the undercurrent I fear.
TW Mom, I feel your pain.
My daughter, who is 15, has recently brought home A Boy. This is the second time this has happened, and we're pleased to see that she's showing some incredible taste. Both young men have been brilliant, articulate, talented, and handsome -- star students from good families, the kind of kids you're happy to have around the house.
Number Two is the son of a well-known lawyer. He's kind and attentive to my daughter. But she keeps hinting that he has "some different ideas" about politics. When I pushed her further, it came out that he doesn't believe in democracy, and he "thinks Hitler had some good ideas" about how to govern. "He thinks ost people aren't able to govern themselves, and need strong leaders to lead them," she said.
Now, granted, this is a *young* man of barely 16 we're talking about here. I was relieved to hear that his current favorite author is Heinlein; this means he's probably headed for a few years as an Ayn Rand acolyte (a phase many smart young men go through) before growing up to the point where they have jobs and families and a fresh appreciation for the reliable support of civil society. I know a lot of smart boys who went this route, including the one I married. They seem to come through it relatively unscathed.
But the "Hitler had the right idea" meme is a bit extreme, and it bothers me. (I think it bothers her, too.) If that subtle racism you speak of is seeping into Canadian kids from liberal Vancouver, where on earth are we immune?
Instead of confronting the Nazi demonstrators with anger, how about getting a big crowd to stand there, point their fingers and laugh at them...
Mockery is an underused weapon, I think.
I don't see the problem of a hundred and fifty or two hundred patriotic Americans beating the hell out of fifteen or twenty traitors. It'll only happen once or twice, and the remaining animals - those who haven't pissed themselves to death - won't come around anymore.
Mrs Robinson, yes this is it.
"Hitler had the right idea."
I think the flashy, or if you prefer, the drag queens NSM of racism actually serve to distract from the real dangerous and subtle rise of nationalist and racist tribal elements in our own children.
Well versed, liberally educated, accepting of others, Montessori educated (at least my kid) - listening to their Black Metal, euro-garage bands subtling weaving elements of - to name one - Celtic pride with a message of separate but equal.
This just isn't the music our parents used to lament. I tell my son why his music disturbs me. Our messages of tolerance have been replaced with the messages of tribal pride. Strangeness of others, the need for some "inferiors".
I am even uncomfortable talking about it here because it - quite frankly - is most disconcerting. It is also not a message my son ever got from me.
Something is propelling our children into a very disturbing arena. The arena is far more subtle then a skinhead in hobnail boots with swastikas on their arms.
It also doesn't help to label ethnic pride movements as racist. My son bristles at this idea. How do we move along the principles of equality and tolerance into a language our modern youth can accept? Frankly speaking, the 60's civil rights broken record is falling on deaf ears.
Not because the message is wrong. The message is still in the language of a time long gone.
Ah, Thomas -- cathartic as it might be, Hermit's probably got the better idea here. Point and laugh.
And make fun of their manhood. They tend to be really, really touchy about that. In fact, if you do it long enough, it gets under their skin and itches so badly that they might even lose their cool and throw the first punch.
THEN you can beat the hell out of them (with a calm, superior smile on your face), and settle the issue of whose might will make right once and for all.
Martin Wisse:
My own gut instincts would be to kick some nazi ass myself, to be honest.
Well sure, I suspect a lot of us feel that way. But it would be less than helpful: street-level thuggery is historically what the Nazis were good at. Keeping things civil (though not necessarily polite) gives you a tactical advantage: civil discussion and debate is not, in my experience, nazis are good at. Thuggery needs a response sure, but it is probably best if the police provide that response.
My city went through a rash of anti-semitic vandalism a while back. I missed the counter-rally (3000 strong), so I put anti-nazi slogans on my backpack. I've had them on my backpack for most of the past two years. It's not much (and not all I do), but it does rack up the eyeball-hours over the months and years. I'm not going to let some nazi delude themselves and others into thinking I approve of bigotry.
Bill White:
The fact that a small number of evil people came out in a communist-dominated town to fight against the National Socialist Movement does not discourage us in the least.
Uh-huh. I'm not buying it: you feel the need to dismiss them as evil and Communist.
Disapproval of nazi bigotry runs strong and wide. Unfortunately it is not very visible. We should change that.
Thomas, that was disgusting.
"Bill White" writes: We are the gold in the furnace...
No, you are not. You're just people. You're nothing more than the local color, like everybody else— only that bothers you, whereas it makes everyone else happy.
The only thing that makes you special is that you feel compelled to make public displays of your hate, you're unabashed about your hate, and you wear your hate like a badge of honor, when in fact, it's a terrible and horrifying stigma upon you and everyone who shares your toxic mentality, whether openly or secretly.
Mrs. Robinson, could you ask your daughter to find out what her boyfriend thinks Hitler has the right idea about? Also, I recommend that he reread _Rocketship Galileo_--it's explicitly anti-Nazi.
"Bill White" writes: We are the gold in the furnace...
No, you are not.
Heck, even if we grant the dubious proposition that aryans are "the gold", Nazis are still shit. Decent, successful people get along well with others. They don't bully. Nazis always were bullies, and it's not working for them anymore. Now not everyone can be successful; I've got some deficiencies in the social arena myself, but they don't have to compensate by bullying. Nazis are the real dregs when it comes to sociability nowadays; it'd be pathetic if they weren't so nasty.
We haven't gotten into those specifics (yet) -- but you bet we will. The young man knows we are came here in part to sidestep what we felt was creeping fascism in the US, so he's been a bit reluctant to hold forth at length. (As I said, not a stupid child.)
My daughter's take on it is that he's "in a rebellious phase" and just doing this to be shocking. She's a natural-born reader of people -- it is her greatest intelligence -- and I tend to trust her insight. But I have to wonder what's going on with our culture that this is now the cool way for teens to rebel.
Great book suggestion! I'll bet we've even got a copy of it around here somewhere we could lend him. (Checking with Mr R....yes, we do. It's on our daughter's bookshelf, in fact.) We have faith that any kid who cuts his teeth on Heinlein is not, over time, going to have much of a taste for dictators of any stripe.
Great article, David.
Mr. White, for those who do not know, is the spokesperson for the NSM. On his website he claims that "but local Jewish-led homosexual and communist groups showed up with black gang member contingents in some force to attack and threaten police officers trying to keep the peace."
His seeming inability to accurately depict reality, of course, should be viewed as a disinformation campaign. He claims 12 NSM members were present, as opposed to the 8 reported by the press.
Of course that's better than his usual specious counting; at the first Toledo rally there were - by my count - 26 supporters, while White claimed 60, plus another invisible 80 that Toledo police supposedly turned away.
At the second Toledo rally he claimed 70 supporters, while there were about 38 by my count (I was on the scene for both rallies).
Anyways, it is best not to fall for his baiting.
Congratulations, Olympia, on both countering the noxiousness of the NSM and behaving yourselves!
The best way to deal with Nazis (IMO) is the way they were dealt with in the movie 'The Blues Brothers'.
As for Mrs. Robinson's comments above, you might want to find out exactly in what way the young man thinks 'Hitler was right'.
I don't see the problem of a hundred and fifty or two hundred patriotic Americans beating the hell out of fifteen or twenty traitors. It'll only happen once or twice, and the remaining animals - those who haven't pissed themselves to death - won't come around anymore.
The trouble, of course, is that it never really happens that way. We always win. We win double when you communist-Jewish scumbags, aka "patriotic Americans", turn violent.
In fact, the same weekend that this small demonstration took place, there were two other small demonstrations in other cities that had no opposition whatsoever -- Reno, Nevada and Des Moines, Iowa.
The National Socialist Movement is growing and radical anti-racist / Jewish leftism is shrinking. Imagine what effect those two realities are having on the world. I know we are. :-D LOL
The only thing that makes you special is that you feel compelled to make public displays of your hate, you're unabashed about your hate, and you wear your hate like a badge of honor
I don't think you get it.
National Socialism is a movement of Love and of Life.
You, and the Jews and Jewish mentalities you represent, are the movement of hate and darkness.
You're evil.
I love this alternative-history version of sleeply little Olympia, Washington. In Bill White's world, it's evidently a hissing snake's nest of white male boogeymen.
He makes it sound like Olympia harbors gays than the Castro, more communists than Moscow, and more black gang members than East LA...and all of them eager to do the bidding of their Zionist masters, who coordinate it all out of the local synagogue, keeping law enforcement in a constant state of indimidation. All that's missing from this perfervid scenario is the shrieking horde of power-suit-clad feminists out to steal their nuts.
Guess I should have been there to represent that contingent....
I know it can't be, but I have so much trouble believing Bill White is a real adult. His stuff sound so much like a basement dwelling, video gaming, pimlpy faced teenager with some type of extreme adjustment syndrome who spends his days masturbating and saying things like:
"Same to you but more of it."
Trolls are large, ugly humanoids, armed with an oversized, wooden hammer. Unfortunately most of them have really bad aim and continually hit themselves in the head with the aforementioned hammer.
Mr. White, for those who do not know, is the spokesperson for the NSM.
Ah, I thought he was talking about the incident in Denmark, the U.S. not being known for their Communists. (Denmark neither for that matter, but their politics are less known). I guess he just can't admit that good "clean" white people abhor his philosophy too.
I for one am shocked at the bastardization of the Aryan race by the inclusion of the subhuman filth that is the Celtic race. The Celts were the slave race of Europe, along with their brethren the Slavs.
Irish and Scots are Aryan?!?? Ridiculous! They may be pale, but they aren't White!
What's next? The wops?
A friend of mine here in Ontario is originally from Greensboro North Carolina, and she told me that when the KKK held a rally down there, protesters organized their own counter-rally across the street which they entitled "Moon the Klan".
Apparently the two groups were separated by police, and it was very successful... hundreds of ordinary Greensboro residents participated in mooning the Klan.
Would've loved to have been there.
Mrs. Robinson—
Before she passed away about eight years ago, my mother told me how she handled it when my fourteen-year-old half-sister came home spouting apologies for Hitler. She hauled the girl down to the public library, checked out the videotapes of the actual Holocaust footage shot by the Nazi regime itself, and patiently explained the concept of eugenic genocide. My half-sister, apparently, back-pedalled pretty damned quick at that point.
Bill White writes: You're evil.
I win. I just had the spokesman for the National Socialist Movement call me evil. That made my day. I'm going to treat myself to some cake.
Yeah, I can't help but think that -- short of actually visiting the museum -- handing the young man a copy of the Holocaust Museum book The World Must Know would make him think twice.
s9, we did something very much like this when my son was about eight, and came home from baseball practice with swastikas drawn on his hands.
He was confused by why his usually pretty easy-going parents were so upset. "It's just a symbol," he said. "It doesn't mean anything!"
I had to go out that evening, so Mr. R told me to let him handle it. When I came back in a few hours later, the two of them were sitting on the couch in the living room. My son was sobbing in my husband's arms. They'd just finished watching "Schindler's List" together, and the enormity of the horror was still hanging fresh in the room.
"I'm sorry, Mom," my son said, running up to me for a hug. "I didn't know. I didn't know...."
Now he knows.
We're taking the family on a two-week spring break trip to LA. One of the agenda items is a trip to the Wiesenthal Center. They're both old enough now. After that, I think my daughter and her young friend will have a great deal to talk about.
None of the museum trips, etc would work with what I am dealing with. It is far more abstract.
My son does not say Hitler was right because he murdered the Jews, homosexuals, artists and on an on. The Hitler part he seems to find intriguing is the idea that some people are inferior - not based on ethnic derivation ( for my kid) - and these people are a hinderance to others. Homosexuality is totally acceptable, as is being a Jew, being black, etc. Interestingly he places free market capitalists in the group of inferiors. (they create anti-social conditions and cause massive suffering)
He argues for gender roles. Now this is quite remarkable considering I have worked in the field of geological engineering, and can wield all the power tools in my shop pretty darn well.
I fear the old racism/sexism is morphing from the Archie Bunkers and NeoNazis to something much more subtle.
Long post, bear with me:
"My daughter's take on it is that he's "in a rebellious phase" and just doing this to be shocking. She's a natural-born reader of people -- it is her greatest intelligence -- and I tend to trust her insight. But I have to wonder what's going on with our culture that this is now the cool way for teens to rebel."
--Mrs. Robinson
I would agree with your daughter, though I obviously know nothing of the situation first-hand (so this is pure speculation). Some kids go through what I can only describe as an "introverted, cynical" phase. Not the usual teenage angst, rebellion, etc. but something a little more black and gloomy--and more inwardly focused.
I went through such a period when I was 14-16. No real outward rebelliousness, but I know I had thoughts similar in type to this boy's (though perhaps not as specific about, say... Hitler). A general air of "everything everyone else likes is shit, I know what's good and what is right, people are all stupid and incompetent" and so on. I've witnessed this in at least two other people I've known--the younger brother of my best friend from high school and the son of an administrator at college. Both of them were around 13-15 when I observed that their behavior/thoughts/etc were mirrors to my own when I was that age. I grew out of my phase about halfway through high school. But the timing can vary--the brother of my friend didn't leave his until he got to college. This boy will probably get out of his... but I don't know how long it will take.
The only person I would worry about is your daughter, but it sounds like she's got a good head on her shoulders.
"Well versed, liberally educated, accepting of others, Montessori educated (at least my kid) - listening to their Black Metal, euro-garage bands subtling weaving elements of - to name one - Celtic pride with a message of separate but equal.
This just isn't the music our parents used to lament. I tell my son why his music disturbs me. Our messages of tolerance have been replaced with the messages of tribal pride. Strangeness of others, the need for some "inferiors"."
--TW Mom
Yeah, this sort of thing is worrying. If your son is into metal and such, I could recommend a few bands that are not racist or are explicitly anti-racist (denoted 'not' or 'anti'):
Strapping Young Lad (not)
Pantera (anti)
Soilwork (older albums are heavier) (not)
KMFDM (anti, though they may not cut it as purely metal...)
Fear Factory (not)
In Flames (not)
Mastodon (not)
Ministry (not)
Rammstein (not)
I wouldn't call any of these death metal, but our definitions may vary 
. I know you're in a position where it's hard to influence his tastes, but finding some (non-intrusive and non-authoritarian) way to influence the culture he absorbs is probably a good way to get started. Maybe, for his next birthday (or other gift-giving event), get him what he wants + a CD or something that is subtley anti-racist. Or find something (documentary, museum, book, etc.) that explicitly shows where "separate but equal" leads.
If you decide to influence his music, I would highly recommend Pantera's CD "Vulgar Display of Power." Tracks 6 and 7 especially:
http://www.darklyrics.com/
lyrics...layofpower.html
"She hauled the girl down to the public library, checked out the videotapes of the actual Holocaust footage shot by the Nazi regime itself, and patiently explained the concept of eugenic genocide. My half-sister, apparently, back-pedalled pretty damned quick at that point."
--s9
That sounds like a very effective way of dealing with it... wow.
Me, I wouldn't worry about the gender roles stuff too much. These things are very predictably cyclic in our culture: eras of greater freedom alternating with eras in which the sexes reaffirm their differences.
We were fortunate to be young women in an era of expanding freedom, much like the 1840s or the early 1900s. We're now entering the part of the cycle where men and woman retreat to their own spheres, and will probably be in that phase for most of the rest of our lives. It'll probably peak in the 2020s; after that, we'll start gradually moving back to another era emphasizing individual liberty and rights.
The good news is that the roles our kids define will probably only bear superficial resemblance to the ones our parents adhered to in the 50s and 60s. As you note: there's a recognition of people's rights that wasn't there last time around; and even the most rabid gender partisans don't seem to question the notion that women should work, and get equal pay for it.
Me, I'm kinda liking watching the boys be boys, and the girls be girls. It'll be interesting to see how our kids put it back together.
Are you trying to compensate for a little problem, mr white?
Thank you Bolo and Mrs Robinson. Very good points and I appreciate that I am not alone.
Sometimes that is really all we need.
I was heartened to see many of the groups he listens to are on your list Bolo. Phew.
And you sure got it right about the agnst. But is is certainly close to nihilism.
TW Mom, I recommend this:
https://www.math.rutgers.edu/
~sus...identalism.html
Anti-liberal revolts almost invariably contain a deep hatred of the City, that is to say, everything represented by urban civilization: commerce, mixed populations, artistic freedom, sexual license, scientific pursuits, leisure, personal safety, wealth, and its usual concomitant, power. Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Hitler, Japanese agrarian fascists, and of course Islamists all extolled the simple life of the pious peasant, pure at heart, uncorrupted by city pleasures, used to hard work and self-denial, tied to the soil, and obedient to authority. Behind the idyll of rural simplicity lies the desire to control masses of people, but also an old religious rage, which goes back at least as far as the ancient superpower Babylon.
I don't know how your son can believe that free market capitalism causes more misery than government, but I expect a lot of the readers here would agree with him. In any case, he should consider how much misery is caused by considering large classes of people to be inferior, especially if it's backed up by force. A little reading about Pol Pot's Cambodia might be in order.
My first paragraph above is a quote from the article about occidentalism. I thought my blockquote tags would work, but they just disappeared.
Dave, is there any hope of getting previews for comments?
Whitey wrote:
What's next?
Slavic Nazis. Oh wait, that's already happened. I guess National Socialism just isn't getting enough converts among "Whites" and is branching out. Strangely they don't seem inclined to enslave themselves, maybe you should visit eastern europe and point out the error of their ways.
For those with way too much time on their hands, I have a related story on my blog about the saga of Jacques Pluss, a history professor who joined the National Socialist Movement last year.
After leaving the NSM in October 2005, he revealed that his pupose in joining was to infiltrate the organization as a means of gaining information for research purposes, a la Derrida and his belief in "becoming" the research subject.
Mr. White, of course, has different views on why Pluss joined the NSM, but I trust that readers are capable of making up their own minds.
Andrew Wade -
Thanks for responding to my sarcastic post. I was quite proud of it when I posted it yesterday, and was a bit disappointed that no one responded.
It is funny, as you say, that white supremacy has grown to be more inclusive over the years. There was a time, not too long ago, when any American of English descent would unequivocably say that the Irish are a completely separate and inferior race than the English.
Funny, huh?
What the Neo-Nazi movement needs is a movement to purge the movement of "inferior" types of white people. Then, see who's left.
Dear Mrs. Robinson,
I saw Schindler's List too! And read Elie Wiesel's "Night."
Are those works fact or fiction? Just wondering, because I heard that many things in Schindler's List weren't quite historically accurate. Also, why did Elie Wiesel flee with the Germans rather than greet the Soviet liberators? Just curious. And recently on Oprah there was some controversy about whether Mr. Wiesel's book, "Night," like the whole Holocaust story itself, is fact or fiction. As my Jewish friends say, "It's not exaggeration, it's just good story telling!"
By the way, today is the second most important Jewish holiday, Holocaust Day!
So I wanted to wish you, "Happy Holocaust Day, and Best Wishes for 6 Million More!"
I told all my friends in school that today is Holocaust day, and we greeted all our Jewish friends at our school that way today. They thought it was very funny!
Andrew Wade -
Thanks for responding to my sarcastic post
You're welcome. I'm not very good at spotting sarcasm.
Funny, huh?
Oh, aye. Even funnier is the continuing insistence of the racists of today that the Jews are superior. They don't phrase it that way, of course, but that's what it amounts to.
Bill White Fan:
Just wondering, because I heard that many things in Schindler's List weren't quite historically accurate.
That's true enough, artistic license was taken. It's not a documentary: if you want history the library is probably the place to go.
So I wanted to wish you, "Happy Holocaust Day, and Best Wishes for 6 Million More!"
This isn't a playground. Try and behave.
Happy Holocaust Day? No. Not today.
.06 seconds with Google confirms that Yom Hashoah 2006 will occur on May 5.
Your sources are no more accurate about this than they are about anything else.
Dude, if you're gonna hang out around here, facts matter. Keep spreading shit like this around, and we're gonna make damn sure you end up eating it every single time.
Gee...and yet more factual errors. Why am I not surprised?
Wiesel was in Buchenwald, which was liberated by the Allies, not the Soviets.
There is no evidence that he "retreated with the Germans." Rather, the liberating Allied troops took him to Paris, where he settled in and attended the Sorbonne.
Given the fact that you're 0 for 2 on this stuff, if you told me your own birthday, I'd want to see corroborating documentation.
It's a shame that those Nazis still spread their shit. They try to do that in Germany again, but luckily there are a lot of people protesting against them. They are still as racist as in the 30s, but they do it on a more subtle way. A little bit of scapegoating foreigners for the high unemployment, a good portion of anti-americanism, some protesting against the government - that's the way of the nazi party. Of course, there still are the street bullies - swastika, no hair, stupid muscles. But the nazi partyies try to separate from them (at least officially).
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