Yes it was dire. Stage managed plenaries and a speakers slip systm so the SWP could halt any real debate. Nothing organisational. We might was well have had a half hour rally and chanted we love being in a union and gone home to watch the rugby. I hear the All Blacks were brilliant.
A total waste of my time and my union branch's money.
Reinforcing what Jim said, it's notable how few actual union branches sponsored it - looks like a bit of a non starter to me.
You suggesting that Islamophobia, Iraq, Afganistan are not issues of concern to the labour movement? They are the most important at the moment, its perfectly correct to discuss them at some length.
"They are the most important at the moment, its perfectly correct to discuss them at some length."
PG, thanks for the tips.
Islamophobia, Iraq, Afganistan are issues of concern to the labour movement. Anyone who wants to be told at length how important they are will have another opportunity to hear this at Saturday's rally on that theme. Last Saturday most of us were there to do something different and have a real discussion about where the unions are, how to re-build them and what the organisational and political framework for that might be. None of that happened. It was a thoroughly patronising, bureaucratic event and not much a shop window for what Respect might have to offer. There is no point pretending otherwise.
Does John McDonnell have a clue how to mobilise support in the Labour Party?
Personally I thought you could tell how sucessful it was by how dejected all the sects looked.
You suggesting that Islamophobia, Iraq, Afganistan are not issues of concern to the labour movement? They are the most important at the moment, its perfectly correct to discuss them at some length.
Why? They're being discussed at some length up and down the country. You can't throw a brick without hitting a discussion about Iraq these days.
If you're going to have a meeting of trade unions, why not have a discussion about, I dunno, trade unions?
That is precisely my point. These ARE issues of concern for TUs. How to fight Islamophobia in the workplace for example. How to build support for the heroic resistance in Iraq and Afganistan in union branches also come to mind.
Paddy
There are other issues for trade unions to discuss. A good starting point would be the restrictive TU legislation brought in by the Tories and not repealed by Labour. Current actions and how to support them.Issues that are specific to trade unions.
Liam is saying there is a rally where the issues you raise can be discussed. But this was TU conference, so it should not be a major part of the discussion.
Oops, last post was stroppybird not Dave . forget to change the name.
be honest, it ain't too surprising, that's how Respect/SWP operate, fix things in advance, make a big show, bring a few nonparty people in just to prove that it is "genuine", it is political camouflage and transparently so
who do they think they are kidding?? their student membership probably, but no one else
Victor's comment is a good illustration of everything that was crap about Saturday. Ridiculing honest attempts to get to terms with what is happening in the class struggle is a lazy subsitute for thinking. And that's pretty much what Saturday was.
Lets just forget all about internationalism shall we? The interests of the Afgan, Iraqi, Palestinian worker are the same as the interests of the British worker.
Their struggle is our struggle.
Also lets not forget the most opressed sections of the British working class, at the moment its Muslim as well as migrant workers and asylum seekers really getting shafted.
That is precisely my point. These ARE issues of concern for TUs. How to fight Islamophobia in the workplace for example. How to build support for the heroic resistance in Iraq and Afganistan in union branches also come to mind.
Erm, Paddy, have you ever tried getting a branch of, say, Unison or Amicus to rally around that kind of platform?
If you go in there shouting "Hurrah for killing British soldiers! Yay for the hijab!" I think you'll find you'll be invited to leave via the nearest window.
If you want to represent the British working class, I suggest you go out and meet some.
I think you'll find most union members are interested in employment rights, the security of their pensions, getting a decent rep if they're ever up on a disciplinary...all boring stuff, and it doesn't look sexy on a placard. But that's what members of trade unions actually JOIN for. They haven't joined to start a revolution. I'm a Royal College of Nursing steward, and the members I speak to don't give a toss about revolutionary socialism.
Backward attitudes amongst TU members must be challenged that has always ben the job of socialists involved in the labour movement.
I have been a union activist and branch sec in my time. As a single parent and worker not much time for activism these days.
I do know that most people are concerned with bread and butter issues, but that doesnt mean we stop looking at the bigger picture. Utimately a defeat for imperialism in Afganistan and Iraq will be a victory for the British working class.
When I first came to this country one of the things I did find attractive about the British labour movement was its relative internationalism compared to its other European and North American counterparts. From the days of the Spanish civil war to the fight against apartheid and against racism here, the unions contribution have generally been positive.
Paddy;
If it was so great then why was its charter to the right of existing TUC policy?
Backward attitudes amongst TU members must be challenged
We're through the looking-glass here. Spirit of 1976 suggests concentrating on employment rights, pensions and representation at disciplinary hearings. Last time I looked, these were all major issues for the working class; what's more, they're all areas where active socialist trade unionists have some chance of making a real difference. To advocate deprioritising this kind of work in favour of "build[ing] support for the heroic resistance in Iraq and Afganistan" is bad enough; to dismiss people who don't share these distorted priorities as backward is just disgusting.
What you on about VP? Did I say anything was great?
I wasn't there, like Dave, had childcare commitments and thought that taking my son there and making him sit through all that would be tantamount to child abuse and would put him off politics for life!
Where can I take a look at the charter then? Link pleas. And what is TUC policy? Why do you say that the charter is more right wing?
Phil, why do you think its not possible to do both?
Its perfectly possible and necessary to fight for better conditions at home and at the same time support those fighting imperialism from Afganistan to Palestine. The struggle is international, shouldn't be subject to narrow national interests, that would be pandering to backward elements.
Both are equally important.
Paddy - it's (to pluck one out of thin air) for "the right to campaign" against the anti-TU laws. "The right to campaign"? I suspect that if you asked Norman Tebbitt, he'd say he was for your right to campaign against the anti-TU laws.
Existing TUC policy, for all its flaws, is firmer than that. Which is to say nothing of equalities issues, where the platform that Respect put forward was more feeble than a wet fart in a thunderstorm.
[i]As a single parent and worker not much time for activism these days.[/i]
But happy to mouth ridiculous empty slogans about the heroic resistance, eh Paddy?
Truth is, a lot of us are so busy trying to juggle kids/work that activism is on the slide and the remaining activists (in Respect at least) seem locked in a cocoon well away from the rest of the working class.
That a trade union conference didn't discuss the issue of gangmasters, unionising migrant workers and workplace solidarity to undermine the racist arguments of the BNP and others is revealing - there seems to be no effort by the English left to engage with migrant workers. Even backward unions like the TGWU are ahead of the game on this one (at last).
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2...6/11/
355987.htm
Seen that?
I actually agree with you on the migrant workers issue, a lot more work needs to be done.
THAT is what i mean by international solidarity and supporting the most opressed sections of the British working class.
Did anyone attempt to discuss the issue
at that respect conference? Does the TUC discuss it?
Backward attitudes amongst TU members must be challenged that has always ben the job of socialists involved in the labour movement.
Paddy, by "backward" you appear to mean "not in compliance with SWP policy on the issue".
Let's take the issue of Islamophobia. Go to any union branch meeting, and you'll find plenty of people who believe that the Danish cartoons and the Pope's remarks provoked an over-reaction by Muslims, and that the right to freedom of speech includes the right to be offensive. They may also feel, as I do, that offending religious sensibilities is nowhere near as bad as racism. You may see this as Islamophobia. I see it as defending free speech.
As for the "heroic resistance", you seem to be making the classic far-left error of assuming that anyone who shoots at an American or British soldier is a progressive. A "victory by the resistance" in say, Afghanistan, would lead to the return to power of the Taliban, with all the oppression and medievalism that this would entail. I find that hard to see as a victory for the Afghan working class, let alone the British one.
But anyway, my point is this. The real world does not work like the choreographed meetings of the SWP, with opinions spoonfed into peoples' brains from the mouths of the Dear Leaders. In the real world you have to listen to a plurality of viewpoints. If you tell them they're "backward" for not following the party line of a weird, far-left organisation that they're not even a member of, you'll simply be propelled backward out of the door.
sounds like I didn't miss much on Saturday - the Conference called a fortnight earlier by the RMT, though smaller, appears to have created something to carry forward organisationally. We do need better networks between the rank and file in the different unions, but this can only really be created through a union initiative such as that taken by the RMT.
when you look at Respect/SWP "foreign policy", you see that they suck up to every reactionary that mumbles a few words of anti-imperialism (witness Galloway and the dictator of Syria), for "home consumption" they won't fully blame the 7/7 bombers but they are happy to either fudge the issue (mumble about fightback, the only weapons: bombs) or declare attack on Iraqi trade unionists as somehow legitimate
see the disparity?
So instead of an active working-class and trade unions trying improve things, you have posturing vanguardist ex-students condoning the murder of workers, when it suits them (of course they don't put it that crudely but if you look through their web sites you won't see the condemnation of suicide bombing attacks on civilians or the beheading of poor nepalese workers in Iraq)
Respecr/SWP would hate an active independent trade union movement and vigorous working-class, as they can't control it, and control is uppermost on the minds of middle-class ex-students, of course they shout the "right" slogans, but what positive to they stand for?? killing of trade unionists, see Mick Rix's break with them, etc
Respect/SWP just want the affiliation money, just look at Galloway's antics? do you want to spend hard earned subs on Galloway's Merc, cigars and overseas trips?
they are playing people along, they think a few slogans will win people over
"That a trade union conference didn't discuss the issue of gangmasters, unionising migrant workers and workplace solidarity to undermine the racist arguments of the BNP and others is revealing - there seems to be no effort by the English left to engage with migrant workers."
For example, when I raised the subject of engaging with Chinese workers (of whom there are many in this country), John Rees stated categorically in a meeting that "it's British workers that count", not Chinese; and that racism against the Chinese was of no consequence because "the axis of racism is black and white".
Others in the SWP insisted that UK Chinese are all petit bourgeoise because we all work in catering. The few stalwarts in the CDAS who gave support during the Foot & Mouth disease campaign were the honourable exception.
This class-free attitude in sections of the left is extremely disturbing especially in the light of the Morecambe Bay cocklepickers, the Dover 58, and all those Fujianese immigrants you see in every main high street selling their pirate DVDs to survive.
Yet the Canadian wobblies embraced their Chinese workers and successfully helped them organise as part of the labour movement. It's all gone backwards.
Actually, it's ironc. there's more debate here on the comments page than was allowed at the 'conference'. Actually it was an all-day rally with the speakers (including those from the floor) carefully selected to avoid any kind of debate or organisational discussion.
One of the interesting things to illustrate this is what happened in the 'debate' (in its loosest possible sense) over the workers charter. Workers Power proposed an amendment, which the CAC decided was not an amendment. After a point of order this decision was put to a vote and the conference decided it was not an amendment - without ever seeing the text or hearing about it. This was bureaucratism at its worst. I have little time for WP these days but I don't see why the conference couldn't have heard what they were proposing and then voted it down if they wished.
BTW: Islamophobia is a valid issue for the TU mobvement. What a shame that we only heard speeches about to and were never given a chance to plan practical ways of combating it in our workplaces!
I can't stress enough that this was effectively an all-day rally. Any fresh-faced TU memebr would have no idea how to organise a fighting TU after attending this rubbish.
Not the most important point about the Respect trade union "conference" (in reality, a rally), but of some significance in the light of Paddy's comment that as a single parent he couldn't attend: there was a prayer-room at the "conference" venue, but no creche. A sign of the times and/or the SWP's priorities?
"The Voice of Reason"
Don't know if there was a creche or not. My son is 12, too old for a creche and he prefered to spend my money on DVDs and computer games than sit through the rally.
There should have been a creche for those who needed it, if there wasn't that needs to be sorted next time.
Did anyone hand out feedback forms where this point could be made to the organisers? As far as prayer rooms, whats wrong with that? They could have a Christian chapel as well for all I care.
Its nice to have a quiet serene space to go to for a break during these tedious activities.
Can you imagine an SWP organised meeting 10 years ago with a chapel? me neither.
It would have been laughed out of court. Now, however, pandering to religious beliefs is a given.
It's interesting how racialised the SWP's politics is becoming.
Is it true that there was a prayer room but no creche?
Janine: the answer to your question is...YES.
Seren,
Lindsey German was taking part in some sort of panel discussion - I forget of exactly what - on Newsnight. A UKIP representative stated (who presumably favoured the preservation of the status quo) stated that extending faith schools to Muslims would mean segregating pupils on the basis of race. "No, on the basis of faith", she muttered in response as if that was not objectionable too.
I see Paul Mackney (ex-NATFHE leader) was there. I wonder what he said? Any reference to the total capitulation of the new UCU to the university bosses just when we in the rank and file had them on the run? Not exactly the way to organise a fighting union. I don't think Paul, who still describes himself as a socialist, was personally involved with the climbdown, but he should have commented - or been asked to explain.
Respect.................less and less possible to see it as a serious force. Another hope dashed!
Another issue that TUs should be addressing is Jobs v Environment. TUs have traditionally sided with bosses in arguments with environmentalists - "we need nuclear power stations/arms factories/cancer-causing pollution/chemical poison factories because they bring thousands of jobs to deprived areas".
An imaginative TU movement would be talking and listening to socialist greens who want to re-think our economy for our benefit, not those of the bosses.
Part of the problem of the "far" left is a mania for bandwagon-hopping, emphasis on action and short-termism, when in fact we need a kind of "think tank" to challenge the orthodoxies on the left as well as laying some real foundations for a socialist society. Doesn't have to be intellectual (christ save us from academics) but some original ideas might be nice.
This has actually got sod all to do with the Respect conference but I wanted to get it off my chest...
Jim,
can you enquire next time if Respect/SWP will include a confessional too?? fair's fair?
the speed at which they jettison their "principles" is enough to give some of them whiplash?
And a zen stone garden too. Don't be ZenBuddhistophobic.
Fair enough, but I'll have to insist that they also provide a secular humanist historical-materialist room, where those who believe that humanity can only solve its problems through practical collective action can get together away from all those god-botherers.
Phil
Wouldn't it just be more sensible for those of us "who believe that humanity can only solve its problems through practical collective action " to simply not go to Respepct meetings?
As Respect clearly don't have anything in common with us?
ZenBuddhistophobic is a good one, but it does make you wonder if some of the atheists in Respect/SWP can see the absurdity of pandering to religious beliefs??
or maybe some of the fainthearted "socialists" in Respect/SWP are converting?? I think their recruitment drive has back fired
Astounding a long list of issues the trade unions should be addressing but other than Anna's contribution few sem to realise that 'addressing the issues' is pointless unless the unions organise workers at the point of production. As Anna said 'its all gone backwards' and so should we go backwards, back that is to class struggle politics.
Dave,
I have a slightly odd habit of obsessively counting meetings (ask my AWL comrades!) and at the Respect TU conference I counted 400 or so in the lower hall and then went up and counted 150 in the Balcony. There were lots of people buzzing around outside, so I reckon 6-700 is near the mark. Smaller than the SA trade union conference on political funds that took place a few years ago I'm told?
Sacha
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