It seems we're living in a secular inquisition today. Let's kill the right people even if they moan or appear to feel, it's just a reflex.

I guess we should clear out the mental institutions, are they in a clear state of mind?

I never undestood the gray areas of life, what is bad is what is good. It seems to be a form of mental trickery that will allow you to operate under whatever values you feel prescient that day.

We know live under the secular torturers that believe we will kill you because we care.
Lark | 03.16.05 - 5:43 pm | #

No MRI? No PET? Just a whack between the eyes? Not exactly best evidence. Doctors with an agenda are frightening. I found Dr. Cranford's bio at the U. of Minnesota's website and found among his professional societies he is a member of something called Choice in Dying which he has been on the board of directors since 1992.
So we have a physician with an agenda preforming a very crude test in a life-and-death case. Medical ethicist? Perhaps nominally.
J Rob | Homepage | 03.16.05 - 6:08 pm | #

correction...the bio was on the Center for Bioethics website.
J Rob | Homepage | 03.16.05 - 6:09 pm | #

Actually, that "whack her between the eyes" maneuver is a regular part of the neurologic exam for comatose patients. Take your pen in your thumb and index finger, raise it to about 45 degrees above horizontal then, using your fingers, not your wrist or arm, drop it down across the bridge of the patient's nose. This is a strong central stimulus, and though it is not diagnostic, a response is not reflexive and would most likely rule out PVS and certainly brain death. If nothing else, it gives an examiner a sense of the patient's ability to perceive noxious stimuli. It says nothing about the patient's conscious perception of that stimulus and offers no prognostic value, that is, will they recover from their current condition because they responded to this stimulus.

This part of the exam appears rather aggressive, and if someone tried it on you, you would not enjoy it at all. That’s the point. Usually this is the last step of a series of efforts to get the patient to respond to painful stimuli. If I get you to respond by pinching your fingers, I don’t need to rub your sternum and if I get you to respond by rubbing your sternum, I don’t need to strike the bridge of your nose. Having done this exam on a comatose patient in the presence of their family members, I can tell you that it’s a rather prudent idea to explain what I’m doing before I do it, something Dr. Cranford may have neglected. Even then, however, it’s not pleasant to watch when it’s your husband or daughter.

Also, because a patient grimaces or groans, especially one in Terri's condition, is not a good measure of how painful a stimulus is. Often times these patients will grimace and groan while lying completely still, medicated for pain, and without any stimulus.

PVS is a clinical diagnosis, meaning ancillary tests like MRI and PET are not technically necessary for the diagnosis (what if you’re in a facility that doesn’t have access to these modalities? Local laws and treatment protocols dictate), but when they are available, they offer very valuable assistance about the current condition, and more importantly, the prognosis. Not obtaining these studies when they are available is neglectful at best.

Unfortunately for those who make recommendations and decisions about patients’ like this, there is a broad continuum of neurologic injury that typically defies easy classification. What appears likely, to those of us who are either willing to accept the evidence or not so willing to allow an estranged and adulterous husband to kill his wife, is that Terri Schiavo is still interacting with her environment and so not in a PVS.
DJO | 03.16.05 - 6:32 pm | #

Dr. Wolfson's report is subject to a bit os skepticism. His appointment as GAL was opposed by the Schindlers due to a question (and I beleive a legitimate one) of the doctor's possible bias. He opposed the legislation known as "Terri's Law" At least Dr. Wolfson does not try to pass himself off as an ethicist. I imagine his cost analysis background served him well in his capacity as GAL. I know it served Michael.
J Rob | Homepage | 03.16.05 - 6:38 pm | #

Terri is not in PVS and that is plain to see. Get the judge a seeing eye dog and impeach him anyway for bad judgement. He will live on in retirement and the dog will be better company than his friends who got him into this mess by conspiring to kill a disabled woman.
Alnot | Homepage | 03.16.05 - 7:49 pm | #

Nightfly, I removed your comment because I removed the comment that inspired it. Guest has been banned for repeatedly breaking the rules for discourse that I outlined at the end of the post.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 03.16.05 - 11:04 pm | #

What's truly frightening is Rev. Johansen's very astute explanation of how this tragedy has been allowed to continue: "once a judge has ruled on a matter of fact, it is very difficult to revisit such a ruling". Judge Greer has very obviously ruled on the "facts" based on his own personal opinions.

Everything that has followed is due to this particular flaw (or generally accepted precedent) in the legal system. Apellate judges don't like to say another judge was flat-out factually wrong.

Obviously this needs to be changed, but a future "fix" won't help Terri come this Friday.
P.R. | 03.16.05 - 11:46 pm | #

I can't believe this whole thing is happening with so many good people seemingly powerless to stop what is essentially murder.
Sherry Early | Homepage | 03.17.05 - 1:45 am | #

As it was in Nazi Germany, so shall it be in the last days of the United States. I fear the end times are nigh.
Armageddon | 03.17.05 - 2:11 am | #

Dawn- I understand. I guessed that it would probably happen, but I wanted to challenge the original so that anyone who saw it before you acted would have a more complete picture. =) -NF
Nightfly | Homepage | 03.17.05 - 5:30 pm | #