How hypocritial of them...seriously...
Deine Liebchen | 08.18.05 - 7:47 pm | #

Dear Raving:

'Deine Liebchen' is German for 'your darling'. So it's plainly a nom de plume ... or perhaps a nom de blog ... or maybe eine Blognahme. Oh, heck, I'm just getting too complicated.
Patrick | 08.18.05 - 8:24 pm | #

Heh. In light of the NARAL add that blatantly lied about Roberts, i'm not suprized.

Disgusted, but not suprized.

BTW, there are feminists who see abortion as something imposed on women by men (I can think of a few anecdotal cases where this is literally true, but i think they have something more abstract in mind). So instead of seeing "choice" as liberating, they see it as another form of control.

Just food for thought.
Justin Moser | 08.18.05 - 11:52 pm | #

did you know that the Statue of Liberty is pro-choice?

Those damned dirty French!
BillyHW | 08.19.05 - 12:47 am | #

Raving Atheist, welcome to the club. I wondered how many of us were out there -- those who's comments are not deemed worthy by Jessica to be printed.

Here's what I know: The folks behind the NARAL blog have been tweaking their method of allowing (or disallowing) comments over the past few weeks. I've been reading and posting for several months, and only recently have my comments been refused. Yep, I'm blacklisted. Nothing I write gets printed anymore, and several of my previously printed comments have been stripped out, completely interrupting a flow of dialogue.

I politely asked Jessica to offer a few "rules" by which posts are judged, which I see today have since been added. I think the whole reason this "crack down" has occurred is because the pro-choicers were complaining that it was becoming a "pro-life blog." There were just too many common-sense, compassionate voices for them to handle, I guess.

Anyway, since then the number of published comments have all but dried up (previously I had participated in several discussions with upwards of 30-40 comments, now they're averaging 2-3, if any at all). I've brought this to the attention of Jessica, too, and actually even pointed her to Dawn's site (and the PPGG uproar) as an example of a good, active blog where dissenting opinions -- if not vulgar --are permitted. Alas, Jessica continues to ignore me.
Jim Jefferson | 08.19.05 - 1:15 am | #

I've brought this to the attention of Jessica, too, and actually even pointed her to Dawn's site (and the PPGG uproar) as an example of a good, active blog where dissenting opinions -- if not vulgar --are permitted.

Nope. Dawn is notorious for routinely banning people she disagrees with.
Phoenician in a time of Romans | 08.19.05 - 2:56 am | #

Phonecian,

Dawn deletes insulting comment and when people continually fail to add to the discussion she bans them. You are free to disagree with any of us or all. You are not, however, allowed to run perpetual "your stupid and your argument doesnt make sense" arguments in the comments. I respect that. And I repeat what I said before, even I have been deleted. I respect that. If your gonna be moving your fingers across the keyboard you might as well make your point. A point-just anything but repeating the same thing over and over again without adding to the discussion. OK now read the post again. And again. Irritating isnt it.

Raving,

I have tried to post at several blogs about my original faith and thier stand on abortion. My first faith was a earthen covenant faith and every action or interaction binds you to something. An abortion is a blood covanant and it binds you both to the person you had it with the doc and nurses as well as effecting the rest of your family(because they are your originating covenant).

Now I have converted to catholcism **recently** so when I argue I argue what I know. I know the catholic church deems abortion murder but my former faith has it as a far more serious bond to be collected within your lifetime. And, for a pagan faith, it shows far less compassion for the woman that the church itself does. I have tried to explian this on several prochoice blogs and I was YELLED AT, c***ed at and called all kinds of names. They hated that a pagan faith could be less supporting of abortion that a christian one.

I am banned from so many prochoice sites I dont even bother counting them anymore. And I havnt changed my assigned IP for the past 8 or 9 years. Hubby works for cable and we get that and the modem free+Iaccess. And its a cable modem(yippee). So I cant get back on to those sites.

I think they have a good answer to this over at Aa. They have a stake in this so they hide from compassion. Compassion for a woman after the abortion is done and over is proof that it was there before the abortion. It means they did something painful that they didnt want to do but didnt feel they had a choice. Id say pray for them but instead, for obvious reasons, Ill just say wish them well. If they fall apart there are plenty of post abortive woman waiting in the wings to lead them to healing.
PreggieJose | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 8:44 am | #

Raving and Jim-

I too, apparently was banned for what I thought were innocuous comments pointing out the faulty "logic" in Jessica's posts, and posing questions which apparently Jessica could not answer. The funny thing is, I do get snarky sometimes, and have before on that site (and on another she ran feministing.com). I had always been allowed to make my points, (except for the deletion of various well-made points which I always attributed to computer problems or mistake) but last week - bang. Gone. And not for over-the-top name-calling, either. The comments were simply that -- comments. I think she got tired of facing the fact that she can't respond to many pro-life arguments without looking silly. And, given that she is the mouthpiece for NARAL, she couldn't have that!
Mark | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 9:33 am | #

I noticed on Rev Gardner's site that he offers 'baptism for still-born fetuses and blessings for aborted fetuses.' So even after they are dead, there is a difference between wanted and un-wanted children, I guess. I'm not sure where Rev Gardner thinks this difference comes from, since presumably the still-born and aborted fetuses could be the same age, but he's making it.
viciousmongoose | 08.19.05 - 10:31 am | #

See Victor Koman's exploration of these (and other) issues in the novel SOLOMON'S KNIFE
Will | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 11:26 am | #

Phoenician is right. I pointed out that operation rescue has a violent and my comment was deleted. Posting Raving Atheist's piece on this particular blog is the height of chutzpah.
J.E. | 08.19.05 - 11:34 am | #

typo - should read "I pointed out that operation rescue has a violent history ...."
J.E. | 08.19.05 - 11:34 am | #

You just posted that. What was the topic and did you use the comments to insult someone. And yes I agree OR has had some bad things go on but I think its the Army of God that does all the violent stuff and thinks its Gods will.Ive not seen any rational arguments deleted..

Will,
I hate when someone post about a book and then says go read it. No. I wont, please elaborate about what it has to do with the topic. That is irritating as HE double hockey sticks. I simply cannot afford the time or the money to go out and purchase everybook that is suggested on the internet and then read the darn things. So what does it say? And why is it relavent?
josephine | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 12:11 pm | #

J.E., I don't remember the exact circcumstances of your post, but I believe I deleted it because it was off-topic. I had probably just posted about Planned Parenthood's cartoon "A Superhero for Choice," in which the organization endorses, or pretends to endorse, violence against peaceful pro-lifers. To respond to that by simply saying, "But what about the violent individuals who oppose abortion" (I won't grace them to the term "pro-life") is not "polite discourse." It is "I'm rubber, you're glue." No debate society would accept that response. (See my comments rules at the left side of the page.)
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 1:44 pm | #

Preggie Jose, I made the correction you wanted.
Dawn Eden | 08.19.05 - 2:42 pm | #

I read somewhere that NARAL's media director resigned. If Jessica is related to NARAL, could there be new "directives" in place regarding all communications? Just a thought.
Gray | 08.19.05 - 4:58 pm | #

Dawn,

Your so preettty and sweeeet. Thanks
PreggieJose | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 5:17 pm | #

Koman says a lot more than will fit in a blog comment box, which is why I simply suggested a book which people who are discussing this topic may enjoy and find interesting.
Will | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 8:28 pm | #

Preggie Jose: Personally I think your former Pagan faith and the teachings of the RCC may both be correct on this issue. ("As you sow, so shall you reap") That may be a 'both/and' rather than an either/or.

I think it's vitally important for people like you and Raving to speak out on this issue. You don't have to be an evangelical Christian, a Catholic, or any religious label at all to see that it's just not right.
Demi | Homepage | 08.20.05 - 8:51 am | #

Demi,

I hope its right. And not just partially right. Its the understanding I have had since I was a child and its the only one I am comfortable arguing. I hope to settle into my catholic faith and argue from the catachism and the point of view of the Church but for now I use what Ive got.

I agree with you in that I and others should tell thier point of view but I dont want to start bringing beliefs of my old faith into my new one. Those things that are compatable I will gladly share but there are things that are clearly not. I dont want to be a mixture of religons. A self made platypus if you dont mind that as a description. I want to be catholic and understand what the church has to say and not just a best I can do from this point of view understanding. But thank you. Im glad you braught it up. And Im glad your supportive and not making "you cant serve 2 masters" comments.
PreggieJose | Homepage | 08.20.05 - 1:00 pm | #

A note about "blessings for aborted fetuses and baptisms for stillborns":

Neither is correct, actually. You cannot baptize a dead person, no matter what his age.

Mostly, I think it's rather sad that the women who ask for these things know in their heart of hearts what they've done, yet they are in denial of it. God help them when the realize what it is they've done.
Christine | Homepage | 08.22.05 - 3:30 pm | #