I really liked that movie. It's got some great quotables in it!

And Thomas More is my confirmation name!

KN
KahlessNestor | 01.30.06 - 8:43 am | #

Wonderful film.
Vidiot | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 9:42 am | #

I have not seen the movie but have seen it on stage...it is a great play (which often suffer when put on the big screen)
J Rob | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 10:47 am | #

It is one of the best movies ever made -- must viewing for all of our "Catholic" politicians. "When a man separates his private conscience from his public duties he leads us on the long road to chaos".
Mario Mirarchi | 01.30.06 - 12:10 pm | #

The Charlton Heston film of A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS is much closer to the *original* (stage) version.
Will | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 1:30 pm | #

Historically it is exceptionally accurate, based in large part on the biography written by his son-in-law, which is available on-line here.
(A little American side-light: I learned last week that one of the descendants of Thomas More, through his daughter Meg Roper, was the wife of the great director John Ford.)

As for biographies, I have two, one a juvenile effort called "St. Thomas More of London" by someone named Ince, I think, which was one of my favorites as a pre-teen. I remember reading it at the same time as my dad was reading the adult biography, which I thought was by Chesterton. Could I be wrong about that? It's possible I am confusing it with Chesterton's Aquinas. We did have both about the same time.

For you, I'll make a trip to the attic and see what I can find.

(Personal to Dawn: I played that movie over and over just prior to a certain major event in my life. That scene where there is a long silent moment of him alone just before the doors open for the trial-- I know that feeling and they got it exactly right.)

My very first mention at the Dawn Patrol was a link to my story about visiting the Thomas More cell at the Tower of London. I still like it. Here it is.
Robert N.G. | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 1:34 pm | #

Here's another book, now available on-line, which I haven't read.
Robert N.G. | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 1:41 pm | #

There's a Christian legal group named in his honor, the Thomas More Law Center. They handle religious liberty and pro-life litigation, like the case against the New Jersey school district that banned Christmas music a couple of years ago.

They have a beautiful prayer of More's on their website (thomasmore.org). He wrote it during his imprisonment. It starts out:

Give me thy grace, good Lord,
To set the world at nought,
To set my mind fast upon thee.
And not to hang upon the blast of men's mouths.

Toward the end he writes:

[Give me thy grace] To think my most enemies my best friends,
For the brethren of Joseph could never have done him so much good with their love and favour as they did him with their malice and hatred.

When I read that, I couldn't help but think of Dawn's firing from the New York Post, and all the good things that have come to her through that, like her book and her column.
TeeEll | 01.30.06 - 1:50 pm | #

Recommended books would be

"King's Good Servant But God's First" from Ignatius Press and "A Thomas More Source Book" which includes most of his writings except the novel Utopia (which is also good).
Jeff Miller | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 1:52 pm | #

Great film. Incidentally, Robert Bolt (the author) also did the fine DeNiro/Irons movie "The Mission."

One thing the play makes a little more explicit than the movie - More's dismissal of Matthew. Of course, he can no longer afford his service, but his pointed insistence, "I shall miss you," is explained in a scene from the play. Matthew has been feeding Cromwell information about the household.

Forty years on, Hollywood could relearn a few lessons from "A Man For All Seasons." Lesson one - an intelligent movie prompting deep questions can succeed. Lesson two - top-notch casting (Paul Scofield, Robert Shaw) helps. Lesson three - the movie was rated "G" and won two Oscars (best actor for Scofield and best picture).

BTW, great headline as always. I'm not sure More would like disco, but he'd dig the wordsmithing.
Nightfly | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:09 pm | #

Woops. Won SIX Oscars. The Nightfly regrets the error.
Nightfly | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:12 pm | #

The movie, despite it's rich look, was done incredibly cheaply. Hollywood didn't think there was much of a market, so it had an extremely low budget. Scofield was not a movie name, and Robert Shaw as Henry was a virtual unknown. And I think one of the Redgrave girls(?) was only known at the time for being one of the Redgrave girls.
Robert N.G. | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:20 pm | #

I watch this movie every eight or ten years, because it's so good in every respect. Also, it has a personal appeal to me because my ancestry is mostly British ("horton" is an obsolete word for "mudhole" or something), and I have a long stretch of Anglo-Celtic Protestants for ancestors, so the movie gives me a sense of connection to the English Catholic past.

I laughed out loud at the description of Marianne Faithfull's singing--even though I actually like some of her stuff (not just the early sweet stuff). I heard somewhere that Mick Jagger claims people have it all wrong in thinking that he messed up her life, and that it was more the other way around. Having read her autobiography (no, I don't know why), I can believe him.

And as for the showing of that other movie at RCIA...sigh...what can you say, except that the influence of those people seems to be on the wane.
Maclin Horton | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:45 pm | #

Dawn,

There's a ton of great St. Thomas More materials out there. A King's Good Servant But God's First is a great biography. But I would also check out his writings, which are finally being published in modern English. The Sadness of Christ is St. More's fabulous reflection on the Passiontide. There's also A Dialogue of Comfort Against Tribulation. Scepter Publishers has published quite a few works of his.
JACK | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 2:58 pm | #

Really appreciate all the great comments and leads on More info -- thanks!

Re "A Man for All Seasons," I learned after viewing it that it was directed by the same director as one of my favorite films, "High Noon." That explains a lot. I think they're basically the same film, except that in the More one the bad guys "win" in the end (or so they think -- More's spirit is unquenched).
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:47 pm | #

P.S. Perhaps Mr. Going could rewrite the "High Noon" theme with lyrics to fit the "Seasons"?
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 3:48 pm | #

Other films by Fred Zinnemann that I've ejoyed are "From Here To Eternity", "A Member of the Wedding", "The Nun's Story", and "The Day of the Jackal".

Robert E. Lee Prewit (Montgomery Clift) in "From Here to Eternity" is another character who suffers because he won't compromise his principles.
Frank Gibbons | 01.30.06 - 5:41 pm | #

My favorite Line "Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... But for Whales!"
Anonymous | 01.30.06 - 5:45 pm | #

Actually, it's "but for Wales," but I like your version better.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 5:47 pm | #

I'm sorry you didn't like "Girl on the Bridge." Patrice Leconte, whom I've profiled at a previous job, is one of my favorite French directors. You might like his "Man on the Train" (2002), which co-stars Johnny Halladay, the "French Elvis." It is really good. (Then again, I did see "Hudson Hawk" and "Leonard Part 6" in the theater. I just thought there was something funny about Bill Cosby and an ostrich.)

"Man for All Seasons" (1966) is indeed a classic. Richard Marius wrote the standard biography in the 1970s. It's called "Thomas More." It's objective.

Ignatius Press (surprise, surprise) has a few books about and by him.
D------ | 01.30.06 - 8:42 pm | #

Also recommended: "Beckett" with Peter O'Toole and Richard Burton.

To learn about More's close friend and fellow martyr, Saint John Fisher, see E.E. Reynolds' "Saint John Fisher."
D------ | 01.30.06 - 8:47 pm | #

Yes, love the movie. My mom made me watch it when it premiered on TV. Even as a kid I enjoyed it. EWTN has a series called Sir Thomas More: Faithful Statesman that is very insightful. The last time I watched it they had an interesting discussion of his book, "Utopia" which I've since added to my reading list. EWTN even publishes a study guide for Sir Thomas More. I hope this helps.
MaryB | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 9:09 pm | #

An interesting counterpart to A Man For All Seasons is the movie Cromwell. Both films show how when a religion takes the role of kingmaker (or blesser) it also assumes risks (or "persecution") if politics change.
Scott Allen | 01.30.06 - 9:33 pm | #

Dawn

This movie is a favourite of mine and I know was a source of inspiration for my father when he decided to convert from being a priest in the Anglican Church. His decision was one that left our family without a home and financial security for a time but it was the best decision as God showed us.
He is now the president of a new Catholic College (Campion College) in Sydney and a member of the Pontifical Academy for Life.

Bec
Bec | 01.30.06 - 9:33 pm | #

That is such a beautiful story, Bec --thanks for sharing it. Really enjoying all these comments.
Dawn Eden | 01.30.06 - 10:09 pm | #

Ah, Dawny, the things I do for you.

High Noon for All Seasons

Do not forsake me good King Henry
For this divorcing “Nay”.
Do not forsake me good King Henry-
Wait! Hold that blade!

I am your good and faithful servant,
So full of wit and not a bore,
I don’t why it’s so unnervin’
To call your wedding
No more than bedding
And say your Anne Boleyn’s a whore.

What is this thing called Church of England?
Protestant/Catholic doctrine minglin’
Look at those people lining up,
Signing that oath.
I made a vow to Higher Power,
Now I am waiting in the Tower.
Look at that axe man standing tall-
What if my top part should leave me?

Do not foresake me good King Henry,
Just ‘cause I take my cues from Rome.
In school I wish I’d had more mem’ry
And learned ebonics
Instead of phonics
To say that I beheading home.

Let it swing, let it swing.
Let it swing, let it swing!
Robert N G | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 10:12 pm | #

Oh, Robert, I'm dyin'. Thank you!
Dawn Eden | 01.30.06 - 10:25 pm | #

Dawn,

Check out http://www.apostles.com/thomasmore.html

I find More's Last Letter particularly moving: http://www.apostles.com/lastlett.html

If you admire More, check out St John Fisher as well:

http://www.cin.org/saints/ johnfi...johnfisher.html

They share the same feast day.

Then there's Edmund Campion:
http://www.cin.org/campcapt.html

If you want to read the dedication of someone who is certain of hideous persecution and goes anyway, read "Campion's Brag"
http://www.cin.org/saints/campio...mpion- brag.html
Steve | 01.30.06 - 10:33 pm | #

First, I have to echo Steve's endorsement of St. Edmund Campion. I just finished Evelyn Waugh's biography of him and was so moved that I am in the middle of "God's Secret Agents," which is about the Jesuit mission to England during Queen Elizabeth's reign. You want suffering for the faith...these two books will knock your socks off.

Second, my new favorite "Catholic" movie is a German movie called "The Ninth Day." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411702/
It is available at most Blockbuster stores. It is a true story of a priest held in Dachau. Amazing.
Doug | 01.30.06 - 11:10 pm | #

Re the Judge's rhyme above: not being able to remember the tune except for the opening phrase, I was wondering even before "beheading" if he might have potential as a rapper. Specifically, it was the power/tower couplet.
Maclin Horton | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 11:26 pm | #

Truly one of my favorites. It's amazing how such a quiet (long pauses of silence, and no musical score), slow (nothing much actually happens), dialogue-centered movie can have so much dramatic tension and keep you enthralled.

It's also jam packed with wonderful lines. One of my favorites: More tells Richard that he could be a great teacher, and Richard asks plaintively, "But who will know of it?" More replies, "Your students, their parents, your fellow teachers and God. Not a bad audience, that."

And the end was one of the most genuinely moving scenes I've ever seen on film.
Russell Wardlow | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 11:39 pm | #

The Judge does not rap.
Robert N G | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 11:41 pm | #

Doug, thanks for the advice on "God's Secret Agents." I actually own that — a blessed find in the giveaway pile at my work — but hadn't started it yet. (I'm currently reading the Catechism and a phenomenally apropos [to my being in RCIA] giveaway-pile find, an advance copy of Neuhaus's "Catholic Matters.")
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 11:49 pm | #

Bravo, Your Honor!
Nightfly | Homepage | 01.30.06 - 11:56 pm | #

An advance copy of a Fr. Neuhaus book? Lucky you : )

"A Man for All Seasons" really made an impact on me when I first saw it, and it was always something I remembered as I went through law school and am now at the beginning of my career . . . what a wonderful man to be our patron saint!
Kimberly | Homepage | 01.31.06 - 12:44 am | #

When my predecessor as Family Court Judge cleaned out his office after 21 years, he left only one thing behind: a portrait of St. Thomas More with a prayer for lawyers. I left it right where it was for a couple of years until his son became our county judge, at which time I presented it to him as a welcoming gift, noting that few people today remember More's career as a lawyer and judge, but that his qualities of character, conviction and courage will endure forever.
Robert N G | Homepage | 01.31.06 - 12:52 am | #

Peter Ackroyd's The Life of Thomas More is a very good (fair but not fawning) and recent (1999) biography. Perhaps the major point of scholarship he is able to include that earlier biographers could not is the suggestion that the Mores' poverty was not so great as generally held (due to Roper), Alice More apparently having an income apart from her husband.

Robert Bolt wrote A Man for All Seasons as a tribute to individual conscience, which works very well as drama but is a too narrow interpretation of the true historical situation. For all the difference it makes in the play and movie, our hero could have died for refusing to say Anne Boleyn's nose was just perfect.

But then, St. Thomas doesn't seem to have lived his life with an eye to making it easy for people in later centuries to grasp him in a phrase.

The major drawback to A Man for All Seasons is that it's full of such great lines that people tend to quote it, rather than More himself.

A Thomas More Source Book, from CUA Press, looks great (I haven't seen it), but at 395 pages it might be too much to say it "includes most of his writings except the novel Utopia." The Yale Edition of the Complete Works of St. Thomas More runs to at least 15 volumes.
Tom | Homepage | 01.31.06 - 5:20 pm | #

Read the play - it is one of the few books from high school English class that I keep on my bookshelf (one of the quotes on my Seminary website is from that play!).

-Jeff
Jeff Geerling | Homepage | 01.31.06 - 10:25 pm | #

Ah, A Man for All Seasons. I really need to watch that one of these days. It sounds like the sort of film I would adore.

I'm glad it's given so many people such a powerful experience.

One word of perspective, though, in response to Dawn's comment about Catholic sympathy for persecuted believers (which is a wonderful thing). It's worth remembering that More's death came just seven years before the Inquisition went Church-wide, killing Protestants, Jews and Muslims not just in Spain but throughout Europe. Dying for one's conscience was not something particularly rare in those days.

This is not to try to discount or justify the murder of More and his fellow Catholic martyrs. Or to diminish the nobility of More's actions - he is still an inspiration for us all. This is also not to minimize the fact that Catholics have probably been more persecuted, at least by other Christians, than Protestants have since the Inquisition ended, certainly in America anyway.

It's merely something to keep in mind.
Halibut | 01.31.06 - 10:46 pm | #

I was speaking in terms of the particular nature of the sympathy, Halibut, which is due to the particular nature of the persecution against Catholics. Different faiths are persecuted for different reasons. The nature of the persecution against Catholics is much the same now as it was then.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 02.01.06 - 12:26 am | #

Fair enough. I'm curious to know more about the subject; as a Protestant I haven't really had that much opportunity to know the kinds of persecution Catholics face these days and what folks on my side of the picture can do to prevent that.
Halibut | 02.01.06 - 1:51 am | #

Dear Halibut,

Many of the prejudices Protestants have against Catholics these days are caused by ignorance of Catholic teaching on certain issues, and misunderstandings about the reasons the Church teaches as she does.

Many times, reading a little from a book such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church before slamming a Catholic practice or belief is a good idea; this book has many references to other documents that are equally helpful.

I also notice that many Catholics do not understand where their Protestant bretheren are coming from, either. This is why we all need to work on coming to a common understanding, and working from there to build bridges.
Jeff Geerling | Homepage | 02.01.06 - 9:13 am | #

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/17075

A Dialogue of Comfort against Tribulation by Sir Thomas More
Maureen | Homepage | 02.01.06 - 9:51 pm | #

Thanks for your response, Jeff. So if most of the issues spring from misunderstanding of beliefs held, then I can sympathize - Calvinism is also regularly misunderstood and often becomes more of a swear word than a theological position that people actually understand before they reject. Of course, that sympathy has more to do with the type of persecution than the degree.

I'll take a look at the Catechism. Thanks for the nod, and God bless you.
Halibut | 02.02.06 - 1:22 am | #

Most persecution suffered by Catholics these days is the same kind as that persecution suffered by other Christians. It comes at the hands of Communists and Muslims in places like China and Indonesia. I'm talking about persecution like imprisonment, torture, slavery, and execution, where the government is involved either openly or covertly, as opposed to ridicule or individual discrimination, which also seems to afflict true Christian believers of any stripe. A good blog that tracks persecution around the world is persecutionblog.com, but it may end soon for lack of funding.
TeeEll | 02.07.06 - 10:11 am | #

Halibut, your comment about the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) and persecution is most apropos. While Henry VIII was in the RCC, it was just dandy that he arranged for William Tyndale to be burnt at the stake. What for? Translating the Bible into English. Guess Tyndale was a bad Catholic. Why did More lose his head. Well, he prospered under Henry's favor, but when the politics changed he was one of the truly good Catholics who suffered from the change. This is what you get when church and state are mixed up. The RCC has historically been more interested in controlling things through the sacraments, relics, pilgrimages, Maryology, indulgences and candle-lighting for Purgatory, and the designation of "sainthood" instead of the proclamation of the Word. In fact, the Catechism that Jeff Geerling asked you to read would be in Latin today if it were not for the protestants!
Further, it is correct that many protestant denominations started with church-state religion (churches of England, etc.) by copying the RCC. But in America it is silly to compare "persecution" which consisted of bias and ridicule with the burning at the stake, drowning, removing of tongues and flesh and other torture that the RCC found so justifiable over the centuries. Sir Thomas More was an admirable Christian, but he lived by the sword of state and died by the sword of the state.
Scott Allen | 02.22.06 - 4:24 pm | #

Dawn,

I, too, would recommend Akroyd's bio of Thomas Moore. It discusses Moore in great detail and doesn't mince words in accounting the less positive (in modern terms) of Moore's life.

About those who talk about the inquisitions ( both of Protestants to Catholics and vice versa). We have to remember that back then torture was considered a mercifical alternative to apostacy. If you saved a soul eternally who cared if a little pain was incurred in that result.
Hartmeister | 02.27.06 - 10:08 pm | #