As somewhat of a free speech fanatic, I have no problem at all with demonstraters of any kind, anywhere, as long as they don`t physically obstruct others.

I also think sidewalk counselors do good -- the pregnant women they persuade to change their mind about abortion are probably the reticent ones, who most likely would regret their choice later.
L. | Homepage | 11.01.06 - 2:11 am | #

One of these ministries might be in your area.

Check it out.
Children Deserve Birth | Homepage | 11.01.06 - 2:23 am | #

What's sad is that there are people who can look at that baby and not think saving his life was worth the personal annoyance they feel because the prolifers are there.
Chris | Homepage | 11.01.06 - 8:25 am | #

I'm from Waco originally and had no clue that this same debate was heating up again.

Thanks for the news. May I post this video on my sidewalk counseling blog, Dawn?
JacqueFromTexas | 11.01.06 - 11:09 am | #

Jaque, that video is from YouTube, so you can post it wherever you like. It's available at here. Use the "Embed" code on the page.
Dennis | Homepage | 11.01.06 - 12:11 pm | #

"I have no problem at all with demonstraters of any kind, anywhere, as long as they don`t physically obstruct others."
--L.

L,
Is a currette to the head a physical obstruction?
(If you could, I'd greatly appreciate a "yes" or "no" answer, without a sidetracked discussion on how the fetus is in your body, etc.)
Leif | 11.01.06 - 5:40 pm | #

No, Leif.

(And if you could, I`d greatly appreciate your asking me questions that actually relate to the comment I`ve made about free speech and the good work of some sidewalk counselors, without a sidetracked discussion on my abortion views --which I didn`t bring up on this thread.)
L. | Homepage | 11.01.06 - 9:30 pm | #

Dawn, you keep posting videos that make me weep! Thank you.
JV | Homepage | 11.01.06 - 10:19 pm | #

Dawn,

Thanks for sharing this great video! The sidewalk counselors really deter women who might otherwise have an abortion. As a crisis pregnancy counselor, I hear that all the time. Also, I was trained by Msgr. Reilly (a sweetheart of a priest)in Chicago several years ago to be a sidewalk counselor with the Helpers. They are an unbelievably dedicated group of people who are strongly committed to their apostolate. They have rescued so many babies and women with their peaceful, prayerful approach.

Thanks again for this great post!

God bless you,
Jean | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 12:43 am | #

Leif:
"L,
Is a currette to the head a physical obstruction?"

L:
"No, Leif."

---

...curiouser and curiouser...
Leif | 11.02.06 - 12:25 pm | #

I agree with L. - if someone wants to talk to a praying sidewalk protester, then that should be their decision - but I know from my own personal experience that yelling at already frightened, intimidated women attempting to pass through gauntlets of crazies only makes them run faster.
Shelley | 11.02.06 - 12:31 pm | #

What a testimony! That is so precious. Her little man is so charming! ;) That is such a beautiful picture of choosing LIFE, over death. It's also an encouragement that street counselors do make a difference. Thanks so much for sharing that. The links are also great. God bless you!
BrittLeigh | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 3:53 pm | #

Shelly,
*sarcastically* I loove how you stereotype any anti-abortions on the sidewalk as "crazies" *end of sarcasm* Actually, there is a difference in presentation and demeanor between sidewalk counselors and protestors and their goals are different. BTW, "crazies" is a degroratory and antiqated term for persons with a mental illness and/or a close-minded term for anyone who has differing political beliefs than ones own, usually stereotpying the mainstream group or individuals with the extremists(I've seen it used in such a manner on plenty of pro-choice blogs). If I were you, I'd choose your words carefully.
Rachael
http://www.rsnider.blog-city.com
Anonymous | 11.02.06 - 4:28 pm | #

Protestors primary try to intimidate and shock women into not choosing abortion. And while I disagree with many of the protestors tactics (i.e. bloody photos or screaming words of condemnation), there are protestors who make a quiet prescence with just prayer. And hey have every right to express a freedom of speech, so that as long as it's not physically blocking women or breaking the law. And the sidewalk counselors have a different goal, not to scare or intimidate, only to offer alternatives to abortion and also to director her to resources which can assist her. Oftentimes, I think individuals and groups mix up the two groups and assume the worse about sidewalk counselors without actually getting to know them on an individual basis. They just may have more in common goal-wise than they know.
Rachael
http://www.rsnider.blog-city.com
Anonymous | 11.02.06 - 4:36 pm | #

Awesome, Dawn! What a beautiful mom and child. I pray also for the dad: Could he ask for a greater blessing?
Fr. Phil Bloom | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 6:47 pm | #

Rachel,
I'm opposed to killing babies.
Please explain how this view is an extremist one.

Also, Rachel, if you support the right to choose the bloody act of abortion, then what is it that upsets you about photos of the bloody act of abortion?
If I were going in for a heart operation, seeing pictures of heart operations beforehand might make me squirm a bit, but they'd be helpful and informative; they wouldn't make me mad or upset.

Shelley,
I'm opposed to killing babies.
Please explain how this view is crazy.
Leif | 11.02.06 - 6:50 pm | #

Leif, did you even bother to click on the link to Rachel`s site -- or even thoroughly read her comment?

Obviously not.

If I were you, I would consider doing both before you launch into your rhetoric next time.
L. | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 7:03 pm | #

How is a frightened woman on her way into a clinic for a scary procedure supposed to tell the difference between a "counselor" and a "protester"?

As a clinic escort in the past, I myself have never been able to tell the difference. Any anyway, if someone wants to talk to someone on the sidewalk shouting at them, they have always been free to. I just believe that it's undue harrassment of women.
When someone goes into an abortion clinic, she KNOWS what she's going in there for. Showing her an aborted fetus or telling her how she's going to burn in hell is not going to somehow "convince" her. I've never seen it happen before, and I was a clinic escort for years. I can't speak for women once they got into the clinic, maybe they changed their mind. But still, that's their prerogative as well.

If you don't like abortion, then don't have one. It's as simple as that.
Shelley | 11.02.06 - 10:10 pm | #

L. to Leif:

If I were you, I would consider doing both before you launch into your rhetoric next time.

Agreed! Methinks you owe Rachel an apology, Leif.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 10:18 pm | #

After viewing one of Leif's comments on another thread, which was outright hostile, I've banned him until he gets his act together.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 10:21 pm | #

Indeed, my comment was directed towards Shelly's degrogatory stereotyping of pro-lifers as "crazies". And BTW, I'm politically a moderate and yes, pro-life.
Rachael | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 10:30 pm | #

"How is a frightened woman on her way into a clinic for a scary procedure supposed to tell the difference between a "counselor" and a "protester"?"

That's a good question. Usually counselors are offering informational pamplets and not loud or obnoxious, although they may call to the woman to get her attention. You can read more about sidewalk counseling and their negative reactions to the protestors at these sidewalk counselor's blogs:
http://sidewalk-talk.blogspot.com/
http://sidewalkcounselorsunited....d.blogspot.com/
http://fdalessio.blogspot.com/20...g-apr- 2006.html


"As a clinic escort in the past, I myself have never been able to tell the difference. Any anyway, if someone wants to talk to someone on the sidewalk shouting at them, they have always been free to. I just believe that it's undue harrassment of women."

So you've admitted your bias. I'd like to bring to attention that clinic escorts often block the patients from ever having the chance to speak to the sidewalk counselors both physically and verbally, sometimes with loud music and megaphones, and sometimes they even harass and get physically engage the sidewalk counselors and protestors.

Not to say that you participated in this Shelly, but it's related to this discussion. Also I've mentioned that some protestors simply sit quietly and pray. As for your continued stereotypes, I strongly suggest you get to know the pro-lifers you're opposing before making assumptions and stereotypes.

"When someone goes into an abortion clinic, she KNOWS what she's going in there for."

Yes, she knows that she's going there to have her pregnancy ended, but there's not always a guarantee that she's been informed of the risks or alternatives, or that she isn't beeing pressured into an abortion by a family/member significant other or circumstances or that she'll receive adaquite counseling at the clinic:
http://www.clinicquotes.com/selling.html
http://www.clinicquotes.com/ wome...ensconsent.html
http://www.passboards.org/forumd...isplay.php? f=18
http://www.abortionconcern.org/a...-or- coerced.php

"Showing her an aborted fetus or telling her how she's going to burn in hell is not going to somehow "convince" her."

I've already mentioned above, that I don't approve of the gory photos or the sometimes agressive tactics of protestors. However, sidewalk counselors do not use the graphic images and are more subdued and actually offer her resources and alterantives. And yet, sometimes all she needs is a way out, viable resources and alternative.

"I've never seen it happen before, and I was a clinic escort for years. I can't speak for women once they got into the clinic, maybe they changed their mind. But still, that's their prerogative as well."

Apparently you haven't been listening to the other side and women who've changed their mind.

"If you don't like abortion, then don't have one. It's as simple as that."

No, it's not black and white. What I'm hearing is that I don't have a right to express my beliefs about abortion or or try to influence others otherwise, if I don't like it, I simply just shouldn't have one. But if I hold a personal belief, such as that abortion is wrong or even it's wrong to steal, why should I stand aside and do nothing. And tell me why I should be silent about my beliefs, but one would be able to express their beliefs so as long as they coincide with your own or the pro-choice agenda?
Rachael | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 11:03 pm | #

And also I'd like to point out that many pro-choicers and clinic escorts, like Shelly, perpetuate a fear of pro-lifers, painting them all as violent, raving, "crazies" and make sure to keep women from hearing them, non-the-less talk to them. There is no choice once she's at the clinic and in the grasp of a clinic escort. She's often rushed into the clinic, regardless of whether it's of her own will, past the sidewalk counselors without a second thought.
Rachael | Homepage | 11.02.06 - 11:11 pm | #

Quote: As a clinic escort in the past, I myself have never been able to tell the difference. (shelley)

I could. It was the peaceful Catholic protestors and sidewalk counsellors at a clinic I hung around at that started my conversion to Catholicism.

There was a non-Catholic group that screamed and threw things. And then there were the majority -- the people who prayed and handed out Birthright pamphlets.
Cin | 11.03.06 - 1:24 am | #

I'm with L. on this one. (Surprise.) I'm something of a First Amendment absolutist, myself.

The protesters who yell and attempt to intimidate or shock (with signs, pictures, fake fetuses, et cetera) as well as the counselors who quietly pray both have a perfect right to be there under the First Amendment, as long as they are assembling peaceably. (And, as Rachael notes, not obstructing the entrance, assaulting anyone, or breaking the law in other ways.)

I think the aggressive protesters who scream and have the gory pictures are utter jerks. But, in our society, being an utter jerk and yelling stuff isn't illegal. In this case, it's free speech. (And it's not denying anyone's First Amendment rights to quickly move past the protesters, either.)

I do wonder about the efficacy of such tactics, though -- such as the people who often parade (carrying signs and yes, gory pictures) in front of the building where I work...which contains no Planned Parenthood office, abortion clinic, or anything other than my company's offices.

Or the people who screamed at me and called me a "vicious baby killer" one day as I was covering a story. (I was more bemused than shocked -- I just mumbled "no, video editor, actually" and went on my way.)
Vidiot | Homepage | 11.03.06 - 8:40 am | #

A very moving testimony -- may God continue to bless this mother and child.

For those interested in learning more about sidewalk counseling -- and especially for those who would like to actually do it themselves -- I would urge you to watch the Pro-Life Action League's likewise moving documentary, "No Greater Joy", which includes footage filmed outside of several abortion clinics in Chicago.

It can be viewed online at the link above. (It's also broadcast from time to time on EWTN.)
John Jansen | Homepage | 11.03.06 - 1:58 pm | #

L.,
Although we may not share political views, I did want to thank you for your fair observation and coming to my defense when I was flamed by Leif.
Rachael | Homepage | 11.04.06 - 4:42 pm | #

Dawn,
I linked to your post with some additional thoughts, however for some reasons the trackback isn't working. My post can be found at:
http://rsnider.blog-city.com/ two..._counseling.htm
Rachael | Homepage | 11.04.06 - 11:13 pm | #