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The Dawn Patrol: Comments

They're both in my rosary today and until we know the outcome Dawn.
I'd also like prayers for some sick friends, both with Cancer and both wonderful Catholics 8-(.
Bob P | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 1:02 pm | #

How sad. I hope this story has a happy ending.

I don`t understand how an abortion would be done "by Caesarean" -- would they deliver the other twin at the same time? Isn`t that too early for the other twin?
L. | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 1:35 pm | #

L., they can operate on babies in the womb and close it back up; I'm sure they can take one twin out and do the same. They would probably first inject poison into the boy's heart, so it would be already dead at the time of the Caesarean. That's how the doomed children are "selected" in "selective abortions" -- much the same way that Nazis "selected" the unfit.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 1:42 pm | #

I know many people who`ve had selective reductions, and they were always done vaginally. A c-section is a very major operation, and I don`t understand how they could do one without posing a grave danger to the other twin.
L. | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 1:58 pm | #

I don't know, L., but if you're curious, I'm sure the people at Aid to Women can tell you, as they're trying to prevent it from occurring. No doubt any kind of abortion would be dangerous to the "wanted" twin.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 2:02 pm | #

Ever seen "Soylent Green"? I get reminded of it more and more often! People were to live until age 30 and then were to be hiddenly killed off.
The tie-in to "The Thrill of the Chaste" is that we turn people into objects to be used or thrown away. An unborn baby, an old man with Alzheimer's, and a lover are all there for ME, either as a pleasure or the opposite. To be brutally frank about this case, how dare that poor mother think that a person with Spina Bifida cannot have a fulfilling life! She can't know beforehand. When you eliminate the false compassion, you then have to consider the burden of caring for such a person. That is the place where we should step in and help, as Aid to Women is.
We need to see the preciousness of human life. We, like God, create and pro-create, but God gives the soul in that latter case. When we all learn to care for all human life, our children, our old people, our enemies and our youth, rich or poor, we will be like our Saviour, who loved us before we loved back.
Bob P | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 2:08 pm | #

Very sad indeed. I will pray for the mother, the father and the children in utero, especially the little handicapped boy.

I knew two families with a spina bifida child - one about 20 years ago and another recently - and those children turned out to be such a blessing to them.

I hope this turns out happily. Thanks for letting us know.

Incidentally, Feb. 2 this year is the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord by Mary and Joseph in the temple.

Hmmm...

J.
J. | 01.16.07 - 2:08 pm | #

Ever seen "Soylent Green"? I get reminded of it more and more often! People were to live until age 30 and then were to be hiddenly killed off.>>

Actually that was Logan's Run, not Soylent Green. And that's all I'll say on the subject, so as not to get banned again.
Neil C | 01.16.07 - 2:13 pm | #

Dawn,

Your books looks very interesting. I just posted about it. As an evangelical Christian, I have written on premarital romance from similar convictions. Many blessings to you.

Alex Chediak
Alex_Chediak | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 2:15 pm | #

Thanks Neil, I forgot. Logan's Run is it.
Bob P | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 2:28 pm | #

Contact CHASK (Christian Homes and Special Kids)!!! They have hundreds of homestudy approved families waiting for a child like this! Chask.org

Praying!
Nicole | 01.16.07 - 5:01 pm | #

It's true that abortion is, in theory, unrestricted in Canada. But the situation is not quite as bad as you make it sound. There are *very* few doctors who are willing to perform late-term abortions here (even late 2nd term ones), so few that the Ontario gov't, and other provincial gov'ts for all I know, pays to fly women to the US to have them, in those states where they are legal. It's just possible that that is what will happen in this particular case.
alias clio | 01.16.07 - 5:58 pm | #

Bob P. and Neil C.,
Interestingly Soylent Green came out the same year as the Roe v. Wade decision, and is about dealing with unwanted people. It's also about government funded embryonic stem cell research and experimentation...
er, sorry... rather, "government-sponsored euthanasia centers".
Leif | 01.16.07 - 7:52 pm | #

My big brother was born with spina bifida, this was back in the 1960's before it was possible to accurately diagnose these conditions before birth. My mother was young and recently married and he was her first child, when he was born and his condition was diagnosed she was terrified, faced with coping with a child suffering from a condition she had never heard of and being told he may never walk or sit up. Luckily, his condition turned out to be less severe than the doctors anticipated (he didn't have the sack containing cerebral fluid) and thankfully after a series of operations while he was young he has been able to live a totally normal life, he has two little boys, a great job and regularly plays sport and goes to the gym, he amazingly has no lasting side effects. I hope this lady is aware of all of the facts about this condition and that she is not acting out of fear of the unknown.

Having said this, spina bifida can still be a very serious condition and if she really should not be forced to continue with the pregnancy if she does not feel able to. It is easy to tell someone what to do in a painful situation like this, when it's not you dealing with the consequences. As my dad says 'It's nice to have a boil on somebody else's neck.'.
Sarah | 01.16.07 - 8:23 pm | #

It is easy to tell someone what to do in a painful situation like this, when it's not you dealing with the consequences.

Your mother faced a painful situation like this. Would you condemn someone for telling her she couldn't kill your brother after he was born?
Mary | 01.16.07 - 8:41 pm | #

Sometimes . . . the words to respond just aren't there. Not because I'm stunned or shocked. Nothing stuns or shocks me anymore. We are long past that.

And maybe that is the reason. We are so far beyond shocking and stunning -- not only from a given situation, but from the reactions of others to it -- that after a while, you just get tired and weary and worn out. After a while, the heart just slows down and gives out . . . and there is nothing but silence.

But perhaps silence is appropriate after all. It is very silent in the grave. And that is, more and more, what our world has become.
Bender | 01.16.07 - 9:58 pm | #

Leif,
Because I don't want to be banned again (like you were), I will not respond to your chides. You have your beliefs, I have mine. So please do not respond to an innocent post with your agenda. Thank you.
Neil C | 01.16.07 - 11:06 pm | #

Neil C., thank you for your self-restraint -- much appreciated, and a good model for others to follow. Your "Soylent Green" post was innocent, though in Leif's defense he was responding more to Bob P.'s original post.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 11:29 pm | #

I'm sorry to hear that the mother is in such a difficult situation. The following organizations are various support organizations for mothers with a poor prenatal diagnosis. If you could, please pass on these websites to the CPC, as they may provide the valuable additional support and resources she needs in order to feel the stregnth to carry on with the pregnancy.

Be Not Afraid.Net is a wonderful support site with articles and the stories of mothers who've carried to term despite a poor prenatal diagnosis.

Prenatal Partners for Life: Support, Information, and Encouragement
Prenatal Partners for Life is a group of concerned parents (most of whom have or had a special needs child), medical professionals, legal professionals and clergy whose aim is to support, inform and encourage expectant or new parents. We offer support by connecting parents facing an adverse diagnosis with other parents who have had the same diagnosis.

Sidelines National Support Network
Sidelines is a non-profit organization providing international support for women and their families experiencing complicated pregnancies and premature births. "We believe that families can cope more successfully with a high-risk pregnancy with appropriate medical intervention, education, and a strong support system."
Rachael | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:34 am | #

Welcoming Babies with Spina Bifida/Hydrocephalus
Information and support for parents who choose to carry their baby to term after a Spina Bifida/Hydrocephalus diagnosis.
Rachael | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:34 am | #

"It is easy to tell someone what to do in a painful situation like this, when it's not you dealing with the consequences."

Yes, but what of mothers who've been there and have (had children) with spina bifida sharing their experiences? And if we know a decision she's about to make could potentially cause her pain (as in the case of abortion), do we not caution her? This could be said of post-abortion women who share their story and caution women on the pain their abortion has caused them.
Rachael | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:05 am | #

This is incredibly sad situation.
I'm a Torontonian and I very much agree that the abortion laws here are disgusting. The man who made abortion legal, in this country, has become a multi-millionaire off of his "mills" and continues to open more of them across the country

I wonder if it's possible to have some of the damage, that the child has received from the SP, surgically fixed while still in the womb, as shown on this site http://www.fetal-surgery.com/

And to Sarah,
Yes, SB is a serious condition and my heart goes out to the mother who feels that the child’s death would be better for him than living with the disease.
The thing is that we should not be taking another’s life based on our own biases.

When my mother was pregnant with me, they told her I would die if she didn't give herself medication injections, into the womb, everyday. My mother (who had abortions in the past) decided to let me live and took the injections daily.
Yes, I lived my whole life with a weak immune system and I'm disabled due to a chronic pain illness, but I'm still glad to be alive.
Funny thing is, I meet so many people who're born completely healthy and are miserable, some even to the point of wanting to commit suicide, than there are severely disabled people who love life; so it's indeed bias to kill an unborn because they're not our ideal of the ~*~perfect~*~ child, nor will we know how that child will go through life.
Two examples of disabled people (who were genetically destined to be disabled) who lived fulfilling lives are Mattie Stephanek, a child born with Muscular Dystrophy who was a poet, NY Times bestseller and an advocate for peace.
The other is Stephen Hawkings, who has ALS, and of course we know him as a famous scientist and professor.
ChristineM | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:56 am | #

Sarah,

I'd agree with you EXCEPT that there are families willing to adopt this child. All the mother has to do is carry him to term. She's already pregnant, so the additional burden on her is minimal (and probably less than a selective abortion). Why not let this child have a chance at life?

I am, btw, a supporter of abortion rights, though I would much rather that women looked to adoption. Normally, the additional burden of carrying a child to term is quite large. Just not in this case.

Kris
Kris | 01.17.07 - 3:34 pm | #

"I'd agree with you EXCEPT that there are families willing to adopt this child."

That's always the "pro-life" claim, isn't it? That there are all these people out there just waiting to adopt any child, no matter what color or medical history or age? I realize this woman is in Canada, but right now in the United States there are about 130,000 kids awaiting permanent homes. Disabled children are often the last to be picked for adoption. This is just anecdotal, but in high school I volunteered in a classroom with profoundly disabled students. Of the ten or so kids in the class, only one or two were being raised by their birth parents. The rest were wards of the state, and were lucky if they were even in foster care.

I'm not advocating that this woman do one thing or another. Unlike pretty much everyone else here, I won't claim to know what's best for her. I think that it's a huge problem that there's a lack of social support for special needs children and their families. But I also think that this woman and this woman alone can evaluate her circumstances and her beliefs and do what's best for her. (Note also that she's pro-life -- ask anyone who's ever worked at an abortion clinic about the fact that many, many women who come in to terminate pregnancies take this same "but my situation is DIFFERENT from the rest of these sluts" approach).
Jill | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 4:13 pm | #

Abortions by Caesarean can be done by what is known as hysterotomies-- that is, the womb is opened up, then the umbilical cord is cut and the baby suffocates to death.
SUZANNE | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 4:31 pm | #

Jill,
Your "130,000" claim is just not acceptable. Most of these "130,000" are children whose parents still have legal ties and therefore people cannot adopt.

I called this center and the woman told me that there have been so many people calling to adopt this baby boy. I called because I am interested in adopting him.

Since you are SO concerned about the welfare of these "130,000" children, why don't you step up and start adopting them? Or do you advocate that the state begin executing them because it is far better to be dead than to be a ward of the State?

Just wondering.
Radical Catholic Mom | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 4:35 pm | #

"Since you are SO concerned about the welfare of these "130,000" children, why don't you step up and start adopting them? Or do you advocate that the state begin executing them because it is far better to be dead than to be a ward of the State?"

Because I'm 23 and don't want kids right now. Unlike some who call themselves "pro-life," I don't think that women should have to have children unless they actually want them.

What I advocate is for greater social services for these kids. Of course, it's "pro-life" Republicans who generally oppose any state-sponsored aid for these kids. I'm not arguing that the mothers of these children should have had abortions. I'm simply pointing out that the argument that there's a huge long line to adopt every kid out there is a big fat lie. That goes double when it's special needs kids.
Jill | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 5:01 pm | #

I'm the mom of a 20 year old with SB. She was delivered at 31 1/2 weeks so that the doctors could insert a shunt and close her back. It hasn't been easy, but she's the most amazing woman I know. She goes to college, works at a job, and enjoys every aspect of life. When I knew I was going to have a child with a handicap, I chose to believe that I must be one special person for God to be entrusting me with one of his most special little angels. I hope this mom will come to feel the same way. In the beginning, it's very scary and there's so much to learn, but before you know it, SB is just part of your family's life and you just deal with what comes along. What doesn't kill you really does make you stronger!
Barb | 01.18.07 - 5:02 pm | #

Jill,

While I wouldn't be surprised that there are lots of special needs and disabled kids out there in need of a home, *this* child wouldn't be one of them.

Kris
Kris | 01.18.07 - 6:07 pm | #

What I advocate is for greater social services for these kids. Of course, it's "pro-life" Republicans who generally oppose any state-sponsored aid for these kids.

Why are you waiting for "state-sponsored" aid? Why not step up to the plate and provide greater social services voluntarily, out of your own pocket?
Mary | 01.18.07 - 7:17 pm | #

Jill,
As another posted said, the children in the care of the state often aren't up for adoption because the parental right haven't been severed. Also these aren't necessarily "unwanted pregnancies" but children who were removed from the homes at older ages because of abuse, neglect, and drugs. It wasn't these children who weren't unwanted or unloveable (every child has inherant worth), it was the parents who were unwilling or unable to care for these children. And in fact, there are many hurdles (including fees, legal issues, and even racial bias against a child being adopted to parents of a different race) to overcome in adopting older, disabled, and minority children, despite there are many willing parents. Rather than throwing out pro-choice sound bites and pointing the blame at pro-lifers, why don't you step up to the plate and do a little research, get to know the children in the system, and advocate for better support programs and better adoption laws.
Rachael | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 7:43 pm | #

Jill,

I volunteer for special needs groups when they need a translator.

I do have to agree with you that many times Republicans AND Democrats cut support for much needed financial aid to Special Needs programs. And Mary, when a person has a special needs, the costs are SO high that only the rich could pay them out of pocket. This is where the State DOES need to step up and give financial support for the sickest of society.

But unlike you, Jill, I do not advocate that we give the death penalty to those that others have deemed "unwanted" or "not worthy." Sorry. Isn't that the ultimate betrayal of feminism? "Yeah, I finally get my rights now I can FINALLY deny others!" Give me a break! Women can do MUCH better than that!
Radical Catholic Mom | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 10:40 pm | #

Isn't that the ultimate betrayal of feminism?

Well, no. Not when the woman doesn`t want to "do MUCH better than that!" While I`m all for supporting women in crisis pregnancies, I find the concept of forced gestation in all circumstances to be quite chilling.
L. | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 11:05 pm | #

Women will only truly have a choice in the decision to carry a pregnancy to term she is empowered with the support and resources to continue her education or career and parent and/or support her current family. And before you say it, L., those who wish abortion to be legal for reasons of stayinfg child free are the minority.
Rachael | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 11:14 pm | #

"Forced gestation", that's a chilling term in itself. It demeans pregnancy and our fertility to a level of misery and servitude. It denies that pregnancy is a natural part of the life cycle. Our fertility was once seen as a gift by feminists and New Age religion (beside Christianity) rather than a burden. We shouldn't have to demean or belittle our gift of fertility, in essential part of who we are in, order to advance ourselves and demand better respect in the world. While I consider myself a feminist, this is where I disagree with modern feminists.
Rachael | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 11:25 pm | #

The "LOOK AT ALL THE KIDS NO ONE WILL ADOPT!" brigade really get on my nerves. It's so intellectually dishonest. There are plenty of reasons why kids in foster care *can't* be adopted by willing parents. Posters here have already mentioned the fact that most kids in foster care aren't up for adoption. They're not unwanted children. They're children whose parents can't look after them right now, but want to one day. Some of these parents will get on their feet and be able to do that. Others of these parents may not be very realistic about their chances of ever looking after their kids. But you can't just tell them to hand over their kid for adoption.

But there's a lot of other bars to adopting. Race, for example. Try to adopt a Native kid here in Canada and see what happens. The National Association of Black Social Workers in the US calls adoption of black children by white families "genocide" and works against it.

And yet when this topic comes up, the virulent comboxers *always* blame it on those bigoted would be adoptors not *wanting* to adopt kids who are different than them. It couldn't have anything to do with adoption and social services law and practice.
Eileen R | 01.18.07 - 11:52 pm | #

"It demeans pregnancy and our fertility to a level of misery and servitude. It denies that pregnancy is a natural part of the life cycle."

Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean that it is all gossamer and light. "Misery and servitude" most definitely described my experience. I love my child but I hated, hated, hated being pregnant to the point of feeling suicidal. It was only the knowledge that the end result would be a child that kept me going...barely.

I feel for this woman - I found every day of my pregnancy to be grueling and I would have been filled with fear, panic, rage and despair to find out so close to the due date that my child had such a overwhelming and crippling health problem.

What I find so tragic, reading between the lines, is that she probably did not have access to prenatal care early on. I was advised very early in my pregnancy (about 14 days into it)to take 8x the recommended dose of folic acid because of a preexisting health condition that left me at an increased risk of having a child with SB. I had ultrasounds at 8 weeks and 12 weeks, the latter showed that my son's spine was developing normally. If she had access to prenatal care, perhaps she would have had a better outcome.
echolalia | 01.19.07 - 1:08 am | #

L.,
I agree, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. But in addition to what I said above, why should we have to become like men and forsake our feminine qualities to achieve respect and rights, rather than acknowledging and building on our stregnths as women (and I don't mean in the kitchen) such as determination, attitude, and compassion.

"Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean that it is all gossamer and light."

I never said this, I did say it's a natural part of biology and no doubt challenges come with pregnancy, but my point is that modern feminists go beyond compassion for the difficult pregnancy to disdain towards pregnancy and motherhood, comparing it towards slavery and servitude. Just visit a childfree message board or even Feministing and this attitude is prominent. Oftentimes women who choose to be mothers are looked down upon as "breeders" and likened to cattle. So how can we make motherhood a choice and we give women real support and resources when we (feminists) hold such disdain for the choice of motherhood.

"What I find so tragic, reading between the lines, is that she probably did not have access to prenatal care early on."

I totally agree with this. Prenatal care early on is vital to both the woman and her unborn's health. And I do support public funding of prenatal care for the low income, but sometimes it's a matter of letting her know it's there and helping her arrange transporation for appointments.
Rachael | Homepage | 01.19.07 - 11:30 am | #

Well, Rachel, I know we disagree on this, but I personally reject my "gift" of fertility -- it is NOT an "essential part" of who I am, and I do all I can to thwart it. Therefore, what you say does not apply to me, or to women like me. And believe me, I`m not alone here.

No, you're not. And just because I consider my own fertility to be a curse doesn't mean I can't be really happy for a friend who tells me she's pregnant. One size could never fit all in something like this.

With the health problems my mother and sister have had in pregnancy (and my own health being more fragile than either of theirs), it would be downright foolhardy and irresponsible of me NOT to attempt to thwart my fertility. The last thing I want to do is run the risk of having to abort late-term when my blood sugar or blood pressure run out of control and threaten me or a child.

Plus, there are women who just simply do not want to be mothers. I seriously, honestly cannot understand the argument that there's only one answer that applies to every single woman in the world. Realizing that my own fertility is a negative thing doesn't mean I hate other women or their fertility.

To each her own.
Terezia | 01.19.07 - 11:38 am | #

...why should we have to become like men and forsake our feminine qualities to achieve respect and rights, rather than acknowledging and building on our stregnths as women (and I don't mean in the kitchen) such as determination, attitude, and compassion.

I`m all for building upon strengths of determination, attitude and compassion. I do think it`s possible to do so without having any children, or limiting the number of children one does have.

And I don`t think the childfree message board is the best place to look for examples of mainstream feminism!
L. | Homepage | 01.19.07 - 1:07 pm | #

In fact, I'm one of those pro-lifers who do support conventional methods of birth control(for practical reasons such s you mentioned, health and mental wellbeing, more power to ya!), but also understand the sanctity of unborn life (therefore oppose abortion). We do have more in common than you think. But I'll never conform to the feminist notion that women must become men and have abortion available in order to gain equality.

Any way to only point out one part of what I said. I pointed out both mainstream discussion boards such as Feministing (and Biting Beaver) as well as childfree boards.
Rachael
http://rsnider.blog-city.com
Anonymous | 01.19.07 - 1:23 pm | #

Anyways, getting back to the topic,
Any new news on the situationo of the mother and baby, Dawn or readers?
Rachael
http://rsnider.blog-city.com
Anonymous | 01.19.07 - 1:29 pm | #

...my point is that modern feminists go beyond compassion for the difficult pregnancy to disdain towards pregnancy and motherhood, comparing it towards slavery and servitude.

Feministe is one of my more regular hangouts and I can't say that a distainful attitude toward motherhood and childbearing is at all the norm. If anything, there is a recognition that both can be very, very HARD. There is a lot of anger towards the so-called "pro-life" faction, though - those folks who profess to want to save the babies but really see pregnancy as just punishment for having sex. I have to admit that certain words and phrases uttered by pro-life people really get me steamed - referring to a woman's motivation for getting an abortion as a desire to not be "inconvenienced" (road work on your morning commute route is "inconvenient" a unplanned pregnancy is more like getting t-boned by a 16-wheeler), stating that a woman experiencing a unexpected pregnancy can "always give it up for adoption" as if slogging through 40 weeks of pregnancy and handing a total stranger the resulting child would have no more impact than giving someone an old sweater than no longer fits you. Talk about treating pregnancy and motherhood with distain!

Speaking about treating motherhood with distain, you should read "The Scientist In The Crib", an excellent introduction to Developmental Psychology. One of the authors notes that in the '60s and early '70s if you wanted to take a class on Developmental Psychology you couldn't find it in the Psychology department - you had to go to the Home Economics Dept, as if understanding a child's cognitive development was no more important than making the perfect roast or making curtains.
echolalia | 01.19.07 - 9:56 pm | #

And Mary, when a person has a special needs, the costs are SO high that only the rich could pay them out of pocket. This is where the State DOES need to step up and give financial support for the sickest of society.

Then you should be looking for like-minded people to band together with. Enough of you could pay it.

And if you couldn't, the State can't pay it either. It doesn't have a money-making machine. The only way it can get money is forcibly taking it out of people's pockets. Therefore, if you don't have the money as a group, the money isn't there.
Mary | 01.20.07 - 1:31 am | #

Women will only truly have a choice in the decision to carry a pregnancy to term she is empowered with the support and resources to continue her education or career and parent and/or support her current family.

On the other hand, her choice will be really and truly limited by the imposition on her to provide support and resources for other women to continue their educations or careers and parent and/or support their current families.
Mary | 01.20.07 - 1:34 am | #

Mary, what do you mean by your last comment? Are you saying that the state shouldn`t tax people to provide support?
L. | Homepage | 01.20.07 - 2:47 am | #

On the other hand, her choice will be really and truly limited by the imposition on her to provide support and resources for other women to continue their educations or careers and parent and/or support their current families.

Great point. I do believe the state should provide tax incentives to support families, but am not in favor of huge tax burdens like the ones that support European countries' social welfare systems.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 01.20.07 - 10:36 am | #

Ditto.
Rachael | Homepage | 01.20.07 - 1:01 pm | #

The problem is, if you want to force every woman to carry every pregnancy to term regardless of whether or not they have the resources to support the resulting child but you don't want to pay an extra cent in taxes to support these extra children then there are going to be a lot of children being abandoned and living in abject poverty. This is the kind of attitude that makes the pro-life side seem like they really don't care about the mothers and children and really do consider pregnancy and childbirth to be a punishment for 'illicit' sex.

The European system is far more effective, it makes far more sense that those who can afford to pay more taxes so that those in the most need are provided for.
Sarah | 01.20.07 - 5:17 pm | #

The problem is, if you want to force every woman to carry every pregnancy to term regardless of whether or not they have the resources to support the resulting child but you don't want to pay an extra cent in taxes to support these extra children then there are going to be a lot of children being abandoned and living in abject poverty.

Welfare, for decades, didn't budge the number of children living in poverty. Welfare reform, pushing women out of the safety net you insist is needed to prevent poverty -- decreased the number of children living in poverty.

I should also note that there is no reason to believe that many of those children will be conceived. Women, it may surprise you to learn, can make decisions and choices before they conceive children.
Mary | 01.20.07 - 10:16 pm | #

Sarah, First of all, not every unplanned pregnancy results in an unwanted child.

I don't believe in illegalization, as not all pro-lifers do, but I can't speak on behalf of others here. According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute in reasons given for choosing abortion, "The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work
or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a
single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). The themes of responsibility to others and resource limitations, such as financial constraints and lack of partner support, recurred throughout the study."
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/j...als/ 3711005.pdf

More and more of the pro-life movement is moving towards providing education and alternatives and resources so that motherhood is a viable option and she can care for the needs of her family.
Americans on Call
Heartbeat International Directory of PRCs
Well, I do agree with the wealthy having more tax burdens, but not the middle or lower income. And I personally don't know a pro-lifer who believes that a woman with an unplanned pregnancy should be punished. It just shows how little you understand of pro-life beliefs. If anything, many of us believe that the unborn child has worth and abortion hurts women. More and more women in the pro-life movement have experienced the effects of abortion first hand and are post-abortion themselves.
Silent No More Awareness Campaign
We see pregnancy as a blessing and gift(not a curse or punishment), and see the inherant worth of the unborn and the women carrying the child. If anything it's the pro-choice movement who has a negative attitude towards unplanned pregnancy. There's more than legistlation to supporting women. Pro-lifers are already doing a lot: many individuals (including myself) volunteer countless hours in their community, they run PRCs to help women who've carried to term it, and they provide mentorship and emotional support. But why should only one group be held accountable for societies faults and needs.
Rachael | Homepage | 01.20.07 - 10:19 pm | #

God have mercy! I linked to you (no trackback on the newer blog yet), and I will remember this family in my prayers. I'll bet that most of what she's hearing is to put the child out of his perceived misery.

Pray, children, pray!
Christine | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:52 pm | #

I will definitely pray . . I have an adoration hour very early the morning she is to abort, so I will offer it for a sudden change of heart.

Is it okay to still comment apart from pledges of prayer?

Eh, never mind. I don't think I have a thing to say that hasn't been thought or said already, so . . .I'll just stick with prayer.
Monica | 01.31.07 - 4:30 pm | #

"The last thing I want to do is run the risk of having to abort late-term when my blood sugar or blood pressure run out of control and threaten me or a child."

The solution is not always to kill the baby. Ever heard of preemies? Oh, but wait. Sometimes they're not perfect. Sorry, my bad.

--speaking as a mom who spent 8 weeks on bedrest with high blood pressure and had a 31 week preemie instead of a late term abortion.
Belinda | 01.31.07 - 5:31 pm | #

That's great, Belinda. I'm sincerely glad that things turned out well for you and your family after what must have been an extremely difficult time.

The solution is not always to kill the baby. Ever heard of preemies? Oh, but wait. Sometimes they're not perfect. Sorry, my bad.

Was this directed at another poster? That would explain my confusion, because I can't see any way someone would have got that impression from what I posted then (or ever, actually).

What I said was, "there are women who just simply do not want to be mothers."

The point was that I don't consider my fertility to be a very big part of who I am. I have a family health history that's like a ticking time bomb when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth. Plus (and much more importantly), I have zero desire to be a mother.

Would oxytocin and a strong sense of responsibility make me take my maternal duties seriously if I had a child? Absolutely.

But since my biological clock is apparently completely broken, why would I run the health risks of becoming pregnant? Especially if there was a chance I'd have to abort eventually, which I'd find very difficult to do?

It just makes no sense for me to embrace my OWN fertility.
Terezia | 01.31.07 - 7:14 pm | #

Great Scott, my friends have a SB boy, who's now in his teens, and he wears ankle braces to steady his walking, and has some urinary continence problems. That's IT. He's a great kid, will be a normal adult who limps and occasionally has to go to the bathroom RIGHT NOW. Did he deserve to die for the convenience of his parents? I'll have to ask him sometime, if I can phrase the request correctly.

I'm not much of a rosary sayer, but I will limber mine up especially for this intention. Jesus, Who suffered and died for love of us, help this woman understand that her suffering will also give life, to this child, and to her soul. Amen.
Therese Z | 01.31.07 - 9:28 pm | #

I don't support making abortions illegal, and I just don't feel for unborn babies on the same emotional level as I feel for women facing unwanted pregnancy, I would always leave the choice to the woman.

But I am really glad to learn that organisations like this exist. I'd had no idea. I think it's really great that there are people who want to enable women to keep their babies though their circumstances are less than idea.
w/r/t-
"The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work
or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a
single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). The themes of responsibility to others and resource limitations, such as financial constraints and lack of partner support, recurred throughout the study."

I am very glad there are people who attempt to assist with these problems so that women aren't left with no other option than to abort when they are opposed to it. Cos that *wouldn't* really be a choice, would it?
Anonymous | 02.01.07 - 12:07 am | #

An acquantance of mine aborted a wanted baby today due to debilitating maternal disease.

The idea this child's mother is having a normal, non-life-threatening pregnancy, but will kill him, makes me want to vomit.

I will pray for her and him.
Cin | 02.01.07 - 2:14 am | #

She will be in my thoughs and prayers today. It is sad the she must feel she has no choice but to abort this wanted baby because of the birth defect, the hopless she must feel must be great. But at the same time, the CPC received numerous offers of assistance for her, inspirational stories from mothers of children with SB, and parents willing to adopt the special needs child (which I hope there'd be a thorough background check and homestudy). She's got all the support she needs and yet she's still going through with the abortion. It's frustrating...so sad.
Rachael
http://rsnider.livejournal.com
Anonymous | 02.01.07 - 1:34 pm | #

I will definitely pray today for this situation.

I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet, but all I can think about is what it would be like for the other child to grow up and then find out that his/her twin was aborted for not being perfect.
JH | 02.01.07 - 2:15 pm | #

Ummm, those are some great anecdotes about SB kids, but didn't dawn clearly write that this child's condition is severe, he will most likely be paralyzed from the waist down, and will more than likely need a shunt for hydrocephaly? There's a big distinction between what this woman is facing and her child "not being perfect". I feel terrible for the woman and the pain and fear she must be facing. It's a shame that she didn't receive prenatal care early enough so that she wouldn't be aborting this late in the game, but I guess that's what happens when pregnant women aren't thought of very highly. And while I applaud those who have offered to adopt this child, I have to wonder how likely it is that even a fraction of those families would actually be suitable. And I bet that is part of why the woman is chosing abortion. There are no winners in this story. Although I admit, it's a little extreme- I admit, I'm pretty suspicous of the whole thing, without any outside verification.
Sara | 02.01.07 - 6:43 pm | #

What, you mean a child who is paralyzed from the waist down really is perfect?

There is no distinction at all, Sara. The child is not perfect and is therefore to die.
Mary | 02.01.07 - 7:27 pm | #

Dawn, Do you know what has happened? Did she abort?
Radical Catholic Mom | Homepage | 02.01.07 - 9:41 pm | #

Mary, I'm sure you understand what I was trying to say-- >. This woman has not chosen to abort her child for a trivial imperfection, something that is easily fixed or even something that can be easily adapted to, such as a cleft lip or a club foot. This child will have a host of severe medical problems- this woman is facing years and years of doctors, hospital stays and financial hardship with little or no hope of him ever being fully healthy. Some people are able to take that on, or feel that no matter how difficult his life may be it's worth living. But when facing an unplanned pregnancy- it's probably just too much. Have a little compassion for her- she's not a monster, she's a scared woman. While I disagree with what she's chosing to do-- I object to those posters who seems to think all she has to do is hang in there 9 more weeks and then hand over her sick child to total strangers and walk away, free as a bird....
My main point was, she's not aborting this child because it's imperfect. She's aborting the child because she thinks that's what is best for her and her family and probably the child, and I am pretty certain that if this was something that was less severe she would not be choosing this path. Pray for her and her child, but please give up this "all women who abort do so with little thought or regard to their children, and they hate every baby that isn't COMPLETELY perfect"...it's ridiculous and makes people who are facing this situation less likely to turn to you for support- which is what you want, right, Mary?
Sara | 02.01.07 - 10:24 pm | #

Radical Catholic Mom, no news yet.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 02.02.07 - 12:16 am | #

"An acquantance of mine aborted a wanted baby today due to debilitating maternal disease.

The idea this child's mother is having a normal, non-life-threatening pregnancy, but will kill him, makes me want to vomit.

I will pray for her and him."

So.... there's 'good' women who only abort for 'good' reasons..?
Anonymous | 02.02.07 - 6:02 am | #

Sara, I am 31 weeks pregnant with a child who will be born with spina bifida. I was told at 20 weeks when the diagnosis was made via ultrasound that most likely she would never walk, would have bowel and bladder issues, would need a shunt and would be born at 34 weeks at the latest. Now, 11 weeks later she is moving her legs in uetero on a regular basis (meaning that most likely she will not be paralyzed as we were originally told and will be able to walk), has minimal water on her brain (meaning that a shunt may or may not be necessary), and is expected to be delivered at 39 weeks. My point being almost any doctor giving a diagnosis of spina bifida gives you the worst case scenario, but will then follow it up with we really won't know until the baby is born. Having a shunt is actually not that big a deal in most instances. There are many assistance devices to allow children with spina bifida to be ambulatory even if they do have spina bifida. Did I want my child to have spina bifida? Absolutely not. Do I think it is better for my child or this woman's child not to be born? Absolutely not. I am not God and it is not my choice to make. I believe that great things will come from my child's life. If we have to make accomodations, that is part of being a parent. My 2 year old could be injured in a wreck tomorrow and have many of the same issues my unborn child is facing. Should I kill her if that happens? Sorry, this is obviously an issue very near and dear to my heart. After having walked in this woman's shoes, I can only pray and hope that she will let this child's life continue.
Cathy | 02.02.07 - 2:05 pm | #

Indeed, doctors usually give worst-case scenarios (probably to avoid litigation as well as prepare the mother), however a true diagnosis of how severe the condition is can't be made until after birth, ultrasound can only diagnos a condition to so much a degree. There have been numerous cases where at the birth, the condition was not as severe as the doctor thought. And even so, if you'd ever spoken with the parents of children with SB or visited the websites for parents and children with SB, you'd know that while there are certainly challenges and hardships, these children are able to live mostly normal lives and are children of value, regardless of a disability. It just seems that the mother here is giving in to fears of the unknown, while what she really needs is hope and encouragement.
Rachael | Homepage | 02.02.07 - 3:48 pm | #

*these children are able to if not mostly normal, they live fullfilling lives and are children of value, regardless of a disability.
Rachael | Homepage | 02.02.07 - 3:51 pm | #

Mary, I'm sure you understand what I was trying to say

You were saying that sometimes it's wrong to say that a woman is killing her child for not being perfect -- when she's killing her child for not being perfect.
Mary | 02.02.07 - 7:48 pm | #

Hi,

Please try to pray whenever you made the decision to the abortion, we know you were very sufferring to face the situation. I will pray for you and your babies by holy father, virgin mary and glory to be and hoping you will feel peace in your life.

Grace
Anonymous | 02.02.07 - 9:58 pm | #

Cathy- congratulations on your pregnancy. I hope that your child's condition is not as severe as originally predicted, and that you and your family are able to give this baby a full and happy life. But your situation differs in the sense that this woman is already at 31 weeks and is being told her child's condition is severe- your original diagnosis was made a good eleven weeks earlier. You've had 20 weeks to prepare emotionally, and I presume this was a wanted and planned pregnancy to begin with- we don't know that that was the case for this woman. We don't really know anything about this case. And yes, I realize that kids with SB can have amazing, healthy lives, and for many kids the shunt is no big deal. But I collaborate with a neurosurgeon, and and every day I see a lot of kids where the shunt and the SB is very much a big deal, and makes their health very, very fragile. But thank you for your words- I wish you and your family nothing but the best.

Mary- once again, you are deliberately ignoring my point and I see you are one of those people it's not worth engaging in conversation on this issue- you've decided it's black and white, the end. I've only asked you to show an understanding for the difficulties this woman is facing. I hope that some day you're never in a situation that requires compassion and empathy from the people around you, and there's no one there to give it because you're surrounded by people just like you.
Sara | 02.03.07 - 2:38 pm | #

I've only asked you to show an understanding for the difficulties this woman is facing.

No, Sara, you have only declared it wrong to say that a woman is killing her child for not being perfect -- when she's killing her child for not being perfect.
Mary | 02.04.07 - 1:20 pm | #

Wow, Mary, maybe if you say it for a third time, you'll convince me I said something I didn't say. But probably not. Good night!
Sara | 02.04.07 - 10:49 pm | #

Direct quote from you, Sara:

There's a big distinction between what this woman is facing and her child "not being perfect".
Mary | 02.05.07 - 7:33 pm | #

Did I miss something? Did we ever have a post on what happened on February 2? Many people have asked me.
J. | 02.20.07 - 1:03 pm | #

J., I haven't found out. I did write to the individual who sent me the prayer request, but haven't heard back.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 02.21.07 - 1:05 am | #

Dawn,
Do we know what ever happened to this woman? If she did decide to go through with the abortion, we can only offer to be there if she needs support and/or post-abortion counseling.
Rachael | Homepage | 03.25.07 - 4:35 pm | #

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