So much for womens liberation.
lar | 09.11.07 - 11:01 pm | #

I guess you have to cling to the idea that you HAD to do it or you'd jump off a bridge.
Christina | Homepage | 09.12.07 - 7:40 am | #

I can't find what you quoted in the story. Is there a link to a Page 2 that I missed?
Christina | Homepage | 09.12.07 - 7:58 am | #

Words fail me.

We have to love the women who have been shattered by abortion. Even if they cannot accept our love at this tim.

They were betrayed by a lie, that this most unnatural violence was a 'simple and harmless' solution to their problems. Now, they feel that they must cling to the lie, because facing the truth is more than they can bear.

For those seeking help after abortion, the site Dawn frequently links (afterabortion.com) is very good. They take an amoral stance, and offer non-judgmental healing to any woman in need.

Another excellent resource, sponsored by the Catholic Church, is Project Rachel.
http://www.hopeafterabortion.com/

These people are especially skilled in bringing healing to women who have come to know Christ -- and who suffer with regret for the errors of their past.

And the children? -- They are at peace with God, and pray fervently for the conversion and healing of their mothers. We honor the dead children, when we love their mothers.
Del | 09.12.07 - 10:22 am | #

"Now, they feel that they must cling to the lie, because facing the truth is more than they can bear."

Del,
I don't understand this comment.

I thought most of the women selected for interview in Dawn's link are expressing their immense sorrow over their abortions?

How are they not facing "the truth" as you see it?
Jody Tresidder | 09.12.07 - 10:45 am | #

Hi Jody,

I was following the tone set by Christina... and my comment was mostly directed at the general world view towards abortion, in CONTRAST to the Daily Mail's women. (Just last week, a letter to the Madison, WI newspaper blasted heartless right-wing Christians for wanting to deny abortions to women who need this form of 'birth control.')

Concerning the Daily Mail article -- God bless the Daily Mail for taking a pro-life stance, using professional journalism techniques. The Daily Mail is quoting intelligent feminists who can see that the pendulum has swung too far. And they are sharing the stories of very brave women telling the aftermath of their abortions.

These "face the truth" stories are typically swept under the rug by American media.
Del | 09.12.07 - 11:31 am | #

The very first words of Taylor's piece are, "I had absolutely no choice but to have an abortion," followed in the exact same sentence by, "I know that I made the right choice."

That says a lot right there about the mindset.
saint kansas | Homepage | 09.12.07 - 11:54 am | #

Dawn, I'm one of 'these people' who had an abortion in NYC before R v. W made 'choice' available to every woman in the country.
PLEASE, Christina, try to expand your view of post-abortive moms. The comment "i guess you'd have to cling to the idea you HAD to do it or you'd jump off a bridge" is as untrue as it is unkind.
Because, you see, there is a third option: I can either cling to the idea I HAD to do it, or I can jump off a bridge or I can trust in God's Mercy & the Blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse me from this grave sin.
Selecting the 3rd Option isn't an easy out, let me assure you. After 36 years, I still have to daily remind myself of the Truth, esp in the face of people who throw off-the-cuff comments like yours.
I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it sounds but, like I said, its untrue, unkind & may actually lead a post-abortive parent or grandparent to despair....which is another sin.
G | 09.12.07 - 4:26 pm | #

I'm sure each woman interviewed does have a mix of regret and confidence about the choice they made. And I'm sure that they are each wonderful people in many other respects. But as a guy who is all too painfully aware of such situations I could never trust them. It is a huge roadblock to any close relationship whether it be friend or lover. Once it didn't seem to matter what a woman valued or believed, but now it means everything. Living a chaste, or at least celibate life is preferable to accepting personal denigration. We all have choices.
Jody dosAqua | 09.12.07 - 4:40 pm | #

G, I know that Christina feels as you do, and I don't think she meant her comment the way you took it. I hope she responds to you herself. Please read her blog -- she is aware of God's forgiveness.
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 09.12.07 - 5:20 pm | #

G - thanks for bringing us your witness of Christ's cleansing blood - so often grace is lost in the middle of discussions where even the best intentions may be inflamed by hasty tongues - we all fall short of the glory of God.

If you don't mind my asking, given your painful experience and sensitivity to the subject, and my understanding of your healing, what would you do to educate others, to really touch their hearts, on this issue?

I ask because I'm becoming aware that there's a massive dark cloud of past abortions (and for men, the sexual sins that created those circumstances) that hangs over all Christian communities that stifles forgiveness and hampers understanding. It is perhaps still treated with scorn and derision because of our lack of faith in Christ's redemptive power.

In what way can we express love to those who've suffered and how can we open our arms to those who've repented?

Thanks.
Chris Arsenault | 09.12.07 - 5:27 pm | #

Thank you, G... for reminding us that we MUST be compassionate to women who are victims of the abortion mentality.

When I reflect on my own sins, I know how hard it is sometimes to accept that I am forgiven. I cannot imagine how difficult this must be for the post-abortive mother, with all of those natural instincts of motherhood bearing down upon her. (I just read a study measuring the increased risk of suicide after abortion. THAT'S how deep the despair is.)

Our enemy is NOT the desperate young women who become victims of abortion, along with their children.

Our enemy IS the Culture of Death, which dehumanizes all of us into pornographic objects, to be abused and discarded.

We need antidotes... like Dawn, teaching the Thrill of purity.
We need JPII and Theology of the Body, elevating sex and marriage to their proper dignity.
We need healing for victims, like Afterabortion.com and http://www.hopeafterabortion.com/

And we need courageous media, like Daily News, to tell the truth without fear.
Del | 09.12.07 - 5:36 pm | #

And we need courageous media, like Daily News, to tell the truth without fear.

If Dawn's update from 11:00 a.m. still stands, then that one's probably not happening.
Terezia | 09.12.07 - 7:19 pm | #

So much for womens liberation.

lar, are you saying women needed to be liberated from something? I ask because it's an unusual phrase to be using these days. And I don't see where its use here attributes anything positive to women on any level.
Terezia | 09.12.07 - 7:28 pm | #

I'm saying that far from being "liberating" abortion has done nothing but oppress women.
The women in the article often said that "they had no choice" - why did they have no choice? Why should women be made to feel that their only option is to murder their children? How on earth can people say this progress for women?
lar | 09.12.07 - 7:39 pm | #

How interesting that the midwife told the woman, "Don't look," and then the newspaper decided to say the same thing.
Kate P | 09.12.07 - 9:50 pm | #

Can anyone help me with a dilemma? It came to my mind while reading G.'s response to Christina's comments.

On the day when one particular priest in our parish says morning Mass, he regularly lists an intention in the intercessions "For an end to the evil of abortion and for the return to grace of those women involved."

I give him kudos for including a pro-life intercession, but does it bother anyone else that he doesn't say "those women AND MEN involved"?

As G. intimates in her comments above, there are many women who feel they don't have a choice. They are hammered from so many sides about how their life will be ruined, how it's not really a baby "at this stage," and how "he will leave me if I don't abort."

I see what this priest is saying, but every time he makes this prayer and lays it at the feet of "those women" it sets my teeth on edge.

I'm praying to find the right words and the right time to speak to him about it.

And G., I so appreciate what you said. I know Christina did not mean it the way it sounded, but her comments gave you to opportunity to respond so poignantly and to show a side of the issue so many forget.

God bless you!
June | 09.12.07 - 11:31 pm | #

June, if we take the priest's words at face value, is it not possible that, in referring to "those women," he is not condemning them or attacking them or laying it at their feet, but is instead asking that they be forgiven and redeemed, that the awfulness of the abortion be taken away from their feet and placed at the feet of Christ? To ask that someone be restored to grace, as the priest is doing, is not a negative thing, but a positive and loving thing.

And not including men in the prayer is not giving them a pass, but is instead to not include them in God's mercy. So, yes, men should be included in the prayer, but for reasons other than what you imply.
Bender | Homepage | 09.13.07 - 2:24 am | #

Thank you Bender. That is an excellent point!

I would feel very comfortable making that point to this priest.
June | 09.13.07 - 8:31 am | #

June, I had a priest tell me once years ago that, when he stands before the Lord, he's going to have to confess to abortion. What he meant was that we're all implicated in this genocide by sins of ommision if not by commision. Once I was sitting in my car on my lunch break saying a rosary behind a house on a residential street that was used by a dermatologist to do abortions. As I was praying, I was struck by the fact that everyone in the neighborhood was going about their daily living routines without any overt acknowledgement of the elephant in their midst. So, as far as your parish priest goes, maybe what he's trying to say is what Bender says but the take-home is probably "yes, let's pray for them (& thank God them is not us)".
Chris A, thanks for your thoughtful question. I know its a delicate situation but I have to say that, generally, its better to address than try to step around it. I'm a nurse practitioner who has worked in oncology for a number of yrs. It seems that when children or adults are ill or dying, most families tend to step away from them, at least emotionally & probably not intentionally. The net effect is isolation of the dying person.
I learned early on that the quickest way to clear a room or stop a conversation cold was to say I'd had an abortion. Of course we know that the devil loves the cover of confusion & isolation & disunity &, in part, that's the way he's been able to so effectively foster the culture of death we're living in now. The message to pregnant women is: "Take care of 'it'/don't talk about 'it'/don't bother us with 'it'".
So, to counteract that in everyway possible, the answer is to let the Light in. Dawn's doing it on this blog. I'm doing it by speaking up. You can do it by not being afraid of an abortive-parents' pain or hostility etc. & say something like "Can you tell me about what that was like for you?" or just not step away emotionally.
I know that's hard. I have a friend who happens to be a commercial pilot & is also a post-abortive mother. She asked me once how I could possibly stand in the Walk for Life each yr holding a sign that says "Abortion Kills Children". She was pretty mad because of the pain it caused her. I just said, "It hurts, doesn't it?" & she started crying.
G | 09.13.07 - 8:57 am | #

Hi all,
As a post-abortive woman myself, who struggled for years with nightmares, panic attacks, shame, guilt etc., etc. – I thought I would put my 2 cents in.

Chris has a good question for anyone who has been there done that – “If you don't mind my asking, given your painful experience and sensitivity to the subject, and my understanding of your healing, what would you do to educate others, to really touch their hearts, on this issue?”

Before I answer Chris’ question, I want to comment on G’s comment – “PLEASE, Christina, try to expand your view of post-abortive moms. The comment "i guess you'd have to cling to the idea you HAD to do it or you'd jump off a bridge" is as untrue as it is unkind.”

I personally did not take Christina’s comment literally but rather figuratively as I clung to my reasons for my abortion as a way to protect myself and defend myself. To let go of the reasons and justifications was to open myself up to a grief that felt like I had jumped off a bridge and was laying under the underpass being smashed into the pavement by semi-trucks. When I first started looking at my abortion for what it truly was, I cried non-stop for months, not just little misty tears but rather spray hose tears that flooded my kitchen floor up to my ankles. I still cannot believe I did not die from dehydration.

I want to thank Del for writing: “And the children? -- They are at peace with God, and pray fervently for the conversion and healing of their mothers. We honor the dead children, when we love their mothers.” To me this is what Scripture means when it says Mercy and Justice Kiss. Our children are not in heaven, covered in blood, crying out for vengeance – they are crying out for our redemption, conversion and MERCY as they want to be with us one day. Justice for these children come when their parents acknowledge them as real persons who deserved to live and who are in fact very much alive in the Lord – parent child bond is restored and redeemed - Mercy and Justice Kiss.

To answer Chris’ question “In what way can we express love to those who've suffered?”

When abortion is debated in a way that pits parents against their children or pro-life advocates trying to save the babies from those who are evil – this causes those hurting to feel threatened and feel they need to defend themselves. For the very most part, those who defend abortion do so not because they like abortion but rather because they are trying to defend themselves. That was true for me before my healing.

What broke through my walls? After my mother died was a big trigger and the other was when my husband’s family was visiting, shortly after OJ killed Nicole. My mother-in-law said Nicole deserved to die because she had had several abortions. My heart sank and I felt I had been stabbed in the heart. My sister-in-law knew about my abortion and quickly said we need to go for a walk.

I was all ready for the fight – to defend my dignity and my worth. I had a right to have a decent life.

The first thing that came out of my sister-in-laws mouth was I am so sorry for what my mother said. I can’t believe how much pain you must be in having gone through an abortion. She then shared how she had lost a child and how she grieved and understood I must feel the same.

My walls came crashing down. My defenses came crashing down. Yes, I was in pain. Yes, abortion hurt me. Yes, I have lost a child.

That was a moment of grace - a moment that God touched my heart through my sister-in-law. She then let me know about Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat www.rachelsvineyard.org

So, in summary, we need to speak the WHOLE truth. Abortion kills babies and hurts their parents and there is hope for healing.

In Christ,
Susan G | Homepage | 09.13.07 - 11:28 am | #

I'd like to thank the post-abortive women who have posted here. If any of you would ever like to write a guest post on anything that's on your mind, please drop me a line (you can use my contact form).
Dawn Eden | Homepage | 09.13.07 - 11:57 am | #

G., I was trying to say that clinging to her idea that abortion is a just thing to do, leaves you with two choices: insist that it was absolutely necessary, or fall into utter despair. Until she repents, she HAS TO insist it was necessary or she can't tap into hope.
Christina | Homepage | 09.13.07 - 12:39 pm | #

I personally did not take Christina’s comment literally but rather figuratively as I clung to my reasons for my abortion as a way to protect myself and defend myself. To let go of the reasons and justifications was to open myself up to a grief that felt like I had jumped off a bridge and was laying under the underpass being smashed into the pavement by semi-trucks.

That's what I meant -- that she seems to be in a place where to face the reality would be too painful for her to bear, so she is stuck repeating, "I HAD to do it. I HAD to do it. I HAD to do it." But that's an endless cycle. There's no escape.

If she doesn't have Jesus, she's stuck there.
Christina | Homepage | 09.13.07 - 12:44 pm | #

we're all implicated in this genocide by sins of ommision if not by commision

Back in the days of Operation Rescue, this made quite an impression on me, especially reading the book by the same name by Randall Terry, who is speaking tomorrow (September 14, 7:30-9:30pm) at St. Charles in Arlington, Virginia (between the Clarendon and Virginia Square Metro stops). I remember him making the point that it is we pro-lifers who bear much of the guilt for abortion because we have done so little to stop it.

Whereas the martyrs gave their lives for the faith, we pro-lifers will go only so far before looking to our own self-interests. Indeed, if we were to limit it to Catholics alone, only one Catholic in a thousand, or even one Catholic in ten thousand (0.01 percent), could end abortion tomorrow by putting their bodies between the abortionist and his victims. But not even that small number of people are willing to put their bodies on that line.

However, the Rescue movement never got widespread support (and was allowed to be wrongly slandered as a terrorist operation, rather than totally and purposely peaceful) and it eventually fizzled out. Hopefully a few babies were saved in exchange for all the arrests and convictions that the rescuers now have on their records, but the abortion industry continues on unabated.
Bender | Homepage | 09.13.07 - 1:12 pm | #

G: Thank you for your response to my question, and thank you for your courage.
June | 09.13.07 - 2:17 pm | #

June said ...every time he makes this prayer and lays it at the feet of "those women" it sets my teeth on edge.

June, you've identified the perception that is fostered by the abortion movement - that abortion is completely a "woman-only" situation. But is this your perception, the priest's or both? By his using certain words, you found offense, and yet your own understanding may be skewed. The most loving approach would be to ask the priest how he was referring to women, and if so take the time to educate him through a heartfelt discussion on the issue. Even if he didn't intend his prayer to the Lord to be isolated to woman, that you found offense in his prayer raises the concern that others might be offended, so he may need to clarify these issues in a sermon.

I use your comments as an illustration of what I was asking G about - how do we make the issue personal and relevant without condemnation or judgement. How do we speak words of love to those involved - including men (and about them as well).
Chris Arsenault | 09.13.07 - 6:22 pm | #

G and Susan G - thank you so much for your responses. You've provided wonderful insights.

By practicing mercy by putting ourselves where the other is, we can express love through our faith, and share our hope, in Christ.
Chris Arsenault | 09.13.07 - 6:50 pm | #