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The Dawn Patrol: Comments

fancy that, they found 3 clergy of Moloch
Anonymous | 01.22.08 - 11:25 pm | #

Who do you get to bless an abortuary? I don't know that Cthulhu, Baal, and Kali have that many followers any more.
Christina | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 5:08 am | #

I've been to pro-life/pro-choice debates where Episcopalian and United Methodist ministers argued for "choice." I don't think it's doctrine for those denominations, but I've certainly met individual clergy who gave their support to the pro-abortion side. (I'm PCA - the evangelical wing of the Presbyterian church- so I'm not trying to incite Protestant bashing or anything.)
BeeBee | 01.23.08 - 8:17 am | #

Shameless...
Del | 01.23.08 - 8:42 am | #

Tiller has Moloch Clergy do a
little funeral, including a photo
of Jesus, for the 3rd trimester
babies he kills in Kansas.
Leslie Hanks | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 9:23 am | #

I certainly disagree with the propriety of clergy blessing this building.

I believe, though, that we will not see abortion ended in our nation until we win the hearts and minds of those who do not see it as wrong, and I doubt we will win their hearts and minds by denigrating them like this.

Instead, we give them permission to dismiss us in the same fashion and help further close their ears to our testimony of what it means to truly embrace a culture of life. Those who stand on the front lines as they try to help these women in crisis find a place where they will be welcomed and supported when they choose life are ignored because their quiet patience is overwhelmed by shouted sloganeering and condemnation.

If we follow Jesus' instruction to love our enemies, we certainly have room to lovingly confront them in what we believe to be a horrible wrong that corrodes their souls even while it takes innocent lives. We can and should call out evil for what it is. I'm not at all certain that calling it out can include viciously calling it names.
Brett | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 9:57 am | #

The Episcopal Church is a denominational member and financial supporter of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. Recently, there appeared on the internet an article entitled Abortion as a Moral Choice by the Rector of an Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Massachusetts. In it she chronicled the saga of her having sex with several partners during her seminary days, getting pregnant and having the inconvenience flushed from her womb so that she might pursue her "vocation". Unlike Abraham, she sacrificed her child for God - or so she would have us believe.

The Episcopal Church, sad to say, considers this clergyperson an exemplar.
Dan Crawford | 01.23.08 - 10:33 am | #

Brett - was Elijah's mockery of the prophets of Baal a sin?

Those who are asking for a blessing from God upon the slaughter of the innocents, and those who attempt to give such a blessing make a mockery of Him, and His sacrifice. The Old Covenant response was to "purge the evil from your midst" yet "Vengeance is mine, says the Lord."

Too few people are willing to step forward today and call evil what it truly is.

Mocking God like this is truly evil. All those comparisons above are fair.
Chris Arsenault | 01.23.08 - 10:38 am | #

"In it she chronicled the saga of her having sex with several partners during her seminary days, getting pregnant and having the inconvenience flushed from her womb so that she might pursue her "vocation"."

I would guess she would be offended if she were compared to a shrine prostitute.
Chris Arsenault | 01.23.08 - 10:41 am | #

I don't think there's any question these clergy did something wrong. I don't know that it's necessarily impermissible or a sin to call them names, but not every permissible thing is beneficial or effective.

It doesn't seem that 30-plus years of being called "anti-women" and such has changed the minds those of us who believe abortion to be wrong. I doubt another 30 years of using phrases like "Moloch clergy" is going to change the minds of those on the ends of those labels.

I want abortion to stop. I don't know how that will happen if I spend my time talking myself into picking up that first rock by slathering pejoratives on my opponent until I can safely judge him not worth offering common courtesy or respect as a person, no matter how misguided, wrong or even evil I consider him.
Brett | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 11:40 am | #

""""""
The Rev. Bill Levering, senior pastor of First Reformed Church of Schenectady, said the right to privacy is endowed by God.
"There are some decisions that are left to the individual. Even God respects the right of privacy. We make women into children when we say they cannot control their own bodies," Levering said.
""""""

Here is the statement re:abortion for the church's denomination where Levering is currently pastoring. I wonder what he finds wrong with it and why he is blessing planned parenthood?

http://www.rca.org/NETCOMMUNITY/...d=492& srcid=491
""""""
We believe the Bible teaches the sanctity of human life. Men are given the precious gift of life from God and are created in the image of God. Therefore we believe, in principle, that abortion ought not to be practiced at all. However, in this complex society, where many times one form of evil is pitted against another form of evil, there could be exceptions. It is our Christian conviction that abortion performed for personal reasons to insure individual convenience ought not to be permitted.

We call on all who counsel those with problem pregnancies, especially youth workers, campus pastors, and staff members of our church colleges, to uphold the Christian alternatives to abortion.

We call on our churches to expand their efforts to support agencies providing a ministry of mercy to those seeking alternatives to abortion.

We call on our members to support efforts for constitutional changes to provide legal protection for the unborn.

Recognizing the complexity of the issues, we await the further judgment of the Christian Action Commission and the Theological Commission and the added wisdom which its joint report may give us. However, the gravity of the situation today precludes the possibility of silence at this synod.
""""""

http://www.levering.net/info.htm
ninjapirate | 01.23.08 - 11:49 am | #

The Methodist church also belongs to the Reproductive Coalition group as well. Planned Parenthood's chaplain, Ignacio Castuera is a Methodist and he goes to different conferences handing out resources on "the power of choice".

A while back a Methodist church received a call to participate in a local crisis pregnancy centers but that was shot down. Because "some of our members are pro-choice (pro-abortion)".

How about participating because some of your members ARE pro-life and those who aren't can opt out? Besides, it floors me that even a "pro-choicer" (pro-abortion) can't donate diapers, formula, baby clothes, and other forms of aid to help the woman's choice in keeping her baby? If they were really "pro-woman", they would do everything to help her.

How about donating money for brochures for STD education? That would be pro-woman as well. As we all know, it's not about "choice" at all (like the choice to not have sex in the FIRST place) that they champion.

The RCRC website is disgusting!

Brett, I agree with you about not slinging perjorative "stones" at opponents. I used to be on that side myself.

I don't remember the pivotal moment of my changed heart but I can tell you it was a massive swing to the furthest opposite side. It could have taken longer to switch had pro-lifers been ugly about it.
Blessed with Two | 01.23.08 - 12:13 pm | #

As noted above, the Episcopal Church is affiliated with the RCRC. When serving in the Diocese of Tennessee, I protested that fact (http://tinyurl.com/2xpl8r)and the Diocese sponsored a resolution to sever the RCRC connection to TEC's General Convention. This resolution, and one or two others like it, were not acted on. Here in the Diocese of South Carolina, we will have a resolution, which I expect to pass with little opposition, disassociating the Diocese from the RCRC affiliation.

Anyway, it was terribly refreshing to look up the participants in this shameful event and wee that they weren't Episcopalians.
Patrick Allen+ | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 12:33 pm | #

The SC Diocesan Convention is this Friday, by the way.
Patrick Allen+ | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 12:34 pm | #

Um, ``wow''.

I actually grew up in Temple Gates of Heaven in Schenectady, before becoming fashionably agnostic (the norm, at least among my graduating class there), moving to the big city, and eventually coming to Christ in the Orthodox Church.

It was a pretty liberal congregation in my time, too, but I think I can say confidently that then-Rabbi Szenes would have had no part of this.
Jim Wise | 01.23.08 - 12:43 pm | #

As someone whose heart is clearly swinging the other way (that is, I started out pro-life, turned pro-choice and am becoming personally more and more pro-abortion as I get older), I have to ask, WHY? Why bother having clergy bless an abortion facility? What's the whole point of it? I just don't get it.

It's almost as if they purposely want to provoke pro-lifers by invoking God's name.
L. | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 12:58 pm | #

The entire practice of "blessing" inanimate objects, places, and animals is biblically questionable. I found it amusing that Dawn had her home "blessed" in January but the whole matter was almost prevented due to a lack of salt. It seems that no practice, no matter how superstitious, is acceptable as long as someone with a white collar approves of it. So for those who deride Episcopal and United Methodist "ministers" for "blessing" that which should not be blessed, I recommend you read the Bible to see that which actually is supposed to be blessed (people, and if you have an expansive definition of "blessing" you can include ritual purification of places of worship).

All true worship points to God (Christ, the Father or the Spirit).
Scott Allen | 01.23.08 - 1:11 pm | #

where the violent voices of hatred and oppression are quelled

The civil voices of peaceful opposition, too?

We make women into children when we say they cannot control their own bodies

Subcontracting "bodily control" to someone with limb shears and a vacuum hose doesn't sound like the behavior of a well-integrated adult.

voices and stories are welcomed, valued and affirmed

...I'm sorry, I'm too ill from seeing this kind of saccharine "no Choice is a bad one" excerpt from the liberal thesaurus to come up with something actually interesting to say.
Ed Pie | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 1:37 pm | #

"The entire practice of "blessing" inanimate objects, places, and animals is biblically questionable. I found it amusing that Dawn had her home "blessed" in January but the whole matter was almost prevented due to a lack of salt."

"And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins."
Matthew | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 2:10 pm | #

LOL at ed pie :)

I agree with Brett re: the need to be charitable. That said, the first thing that popped into my mind when I read about this "blessing" was: "Sick."

Also - I have had rosary beads blessed by a very orthodox priest (one of the ones who offers the Latin Mass for our Archdiocese). Is this really a questionable practice?

And to L, I think that PP would do this in order to cast itself in a light of greater legitimacy. Also, for whatever reason, abortion supporters seem to hate that prolifers typically have clergy and religious organizations on our side. Who knows, maybe it's some remnant of a conscience that gets to them when they see professed religious on the side of life...
Joanne | 01.23.08 - 2:14 pm | #

Also, for whatever reason, abortion supporters seem to hate that prolifers typically have clergy and religious organizations on our side.

Anecdotally, I've never observed this, and I know just as many abortion rights supporters as opposers. I even know some Catholic abortion rights supporters like myself, and I've never detected a shred of resentment. Instead, I think most of us find the pro-life stance to be compassionate and geared toward the greater good (though its lack of exceptions for any case makes it impossible for us to embrace it ourselves). Then again, I tend to shun the NARAL crowd, so perhaps my experience is atypical?
L. | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 2:42 pm | #

Scott Allen, please open your Bible to 2 Kings 2:19

Now the men of the city said to Eli'sha, "Behold, the situation of this city is pleasant, as my lord sees; but the water is bad, and the land is unfruitful." 20 He said, "Bring me a new bowl, and put salt in it." So they brought it to him. 21 Then he went to the spring of water and threw salt in it, and said, "Thus says the LORD, I have made this water wholesome; henceforth neither death nor miscarriage shall come from it." 22 So the water has been wholesome to this day, according to the word which Eli'sha spoke.

If that does not convince you that the use of salt in blessings is biblical, perhaps this is more to your fancy:

And the LORD said to Moses, "Take sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum, sweet spices with pure frankincense (of each shall there be an equal part), 35 and make an incense blended as by the perfumer, seasoned with salt, pure and holy; 36 and you shall beat some of it very small, and put part of it before the testimony in the tent of meeting where I shall meet with you; it shall be for you most holy. - Exodus 30:35

You have a problem with the priest using salt to bless Dawn's home because you have a different concept of the words 'blessing' and 'blessed' from the Catholics. The Catholic Encyclopedia discusses the different meanings of 'blessing' here. I do hope that this link is useful to you!
Meredith | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 4:40 pm | #

Yikes. Those are some pretty hot coals I wouldn't want to be heaping on my head. All I can say is that these clergy are lucky that God is merciful and patient and longsuffering, and not so quick on the Old-Testament style smiting as what people think. I pray that they repent before it is too late.
rhys | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 4:57 pm | #

The "sacred ground" declaration sound like a provokation to me -- and I'm not pro-life. This rubs me the wrong way.

How about praying for all the women who undergo unpleasant, invasive minor surgery, no matter what their personal reason, and for all the human embryos that won't get to develop and be born? You needn't even be pro-life to pray for them.
L. | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 5:38 pm | #

The good news? They also bless electric chairs and make the executioners feel better about their work.

"It's a sacred gas chamber..."
Dale Price | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 5:42 pm | #

"and for all the human embryos that won't get to develop and be born?"

Why would abortion providers want to remind people (or maybe most especially themselves) that what they routinely destroy are preborn humans? A conscience would require that they not do that, wouldn't it?

In fairness, I have to say I doubt this was done to provoke prolifers. I think it was simply to increase PP's legitimacy in the public eye, or perhaps to assuage some of their own consciences.
Joanne | 01.23.08 - 6:05 pm | #

I have to ask, WHY? Why bother having clergy bless an abortion facility? What's the whole point of it? I just don't get it.

It's almost as if they purposely want to provoke pro-lifers by invoking God's name.

L, on one level I think you nailed at least part of the motivation. But I think it's a marketing ploy to sell abortions to Christians. "See? Everything YOU understand about the Bible and about God and about Jesus says abortion is a horrible sin. But here's this nice pastor saying it's just fine! That you're HONORING God if you choose abortion. Come in! Sign here! We take Visa and MasterCard!"
Christina | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 6:37 pm | #

Ditto Christina.

In reading more of these comments, I do wonder if part of PP's motivation was to intellectually poison the sacramental well, to make blessings seem a less impeccable tool--a pecced tool?--for the religiously minded.
On the other hand, these clergy seem to really be intending to bring actual graces to the place, if wrongly-directed ones. I wonder how business would be here compared to a clinic that may only be prayed for on the outside.
Ed Pie | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 7:09 pm | #

"sacred ground where the violent voices of hatred and oppression are quelled."

If by "violent voices of hatred and oppression," you mean "babies," then I'd say that this statement is accurate.
Andy | 01.23.08 - 10:39 pm | #

As reported in this post by the Albany Times-Union, 6th paragraph: The Rev. Abby Norton-Levering led the group in prayers for the center's doctors and staff. "We pray that you will make this a place of safety and give a sense of sanctuary", she said.

Well now, I do declare! This little prayer has been on the heart of 50 million+ unborn infants, all of whom are with our Maker, and these degenerates in Schenectady are being quoted.

Listen, some of you may have already heard these: "You can always trust a communist to be a communist." And, "A scorpion knows only how to be a scorpion." Well, ChildAbuseInc., i.e. PP, is simply being themselves. To be expected, NO PUN INTENDED.
Angela | Homepage | 01.23.08 - 11:03 pm | #

Meredith, with respect to your II Kings reference, this was an actual cleansing. That is, a miracle was needed to solve a physical problem involving poisonous water -- this was not ritual or "spiritual" blessing. There is a big difference and you are wrong to equate the two. Take the example of Dawn's home. I don't think she had it blessed in order to be rid of some sort of actual poison or real infestation as was done in II Kings. She sought "spiritual" blessing.

The second example you cite falls within a view of "blessing" that I already mentioned: "...and if you have an expansive definition of 'blessing' you can include ritual purification of places of worship." Moses' blessing of the tent of meeting was for worship of God. So yes, thank you for opening your Bible and validating my exact point.

Thank you as well for the Catholic Encyclopedia link. I will save it for future reference. I have no doubt that it justifies "blessing" of almost anything. My point was that this is not a Biblical practice, and it clearly is not. Whether this bothers you or not is a matter of much deeper theology. If you believe the Bible is God's word, at some point you may be disturbed by the invention of extrabiblical doctines, or at least the fact that these new rituals and practices supplant real knowledge of God.
Scott Allen | 01.24.08 - 12:08 am | #

Matthew, thank you for mentioning the blessing that our Lord gave to bread and wine. First of all it is interesting that when He said the bread is His body, He was sitting right there. In His real body. The same with the wine being His blood. His real blood was in His body. This may seem to be a tangential point, but it's not. This blessing, as I mentioned in my previous comment, blesses people and is true worship that "points to God (Christ, the Father or the Spirit)." The blessing points to the perfect life of Christ himself and his coming sacrificial death. People are blessed by his payment for sin.

The objects (bread and wine) have no magical power and the blessing does not point to them. The plain reading of the text tells us so, and if you wish to believe that this is an example that justifies ritual blessing of inanimate objects (such as the abortion clinic) then you have chosen poorly.
Scott Allen | 01.24.08 - 12:17 am | #

Scott,

What do you think about Ouija boards?
Just asking.
Hannah | 01.24.08 - 8:21 am | #

One moment they're saying et your 'rosaries off my ovaries' but then will use the name of God to their needs.
Renee | Homepage | 01.24.08 - 9:58 am | #

Scott, you are a little off topic. If you want to discuss apologetics, I'd suggest forums.catholic-convert.com.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that God could actually bless an abortion clinic. It's not bless-able (in the way those clergy intended).
John | Homepage | 01.24.08 - 10:16 am | #

The Trinity is within each believer who is in a state of grace and thus wherever we work and live is a sacred space to be blessed.

I pray for all those promoting, considering, choosing, facilitating, and performing abortions everywhere that they might come to see the evil they do, as well as learn of the forgiveness and mercy of our Lord.

I especially pray for those who have been harmed physically and spiritually by abortion that they may come to love and trust Jesus and be healed. May they all be enlightened by the grace of God.

In Christ's peace and joy,

Robin
Robin L. in TX | Homepage | 01.24.08 - 10:57 am | #

"Scott, you are a little off topic. If you want to discuss apologetics, I'd suggest forums.catholic-convert.com."

John,
How is Scott even a "little" off topic?

I've found his comments both germane and illuminating about a fascinatingly nuanced subject.

I think how far one can stretch the etiquette of ritual before it becomes an offense against scripture is entirely to the point here?

I bat for the wrong side (atheist) but I find these discussions absorbing.
Jody Tresidder | 01.24.08 - 10:59 am | #

Hmm. Jesus says, "this is my body," and that I must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life. Scott Allen says Jesus couldn't possibly mean that! I wonder who I should listen to?
Zorak the Mantis | 01.24.08 - 11:07 am | #

Scott,

Sola scriptura is an extrabiblical doctrine. How do you explain that?
Fallen Sparrow | Homepage | 01.24.08 - 11:22 am | #

I'm reminded of my old pastor, Fr. Rich Simon. I'd ask him to bless some medals or whatnot, and he'd always joke around saying, "I'll bless anything but sin!"
John | Homepage | 01.24.08 - 2:45 pm | #

Hannah, I'm not sure what to think of your question about Ouija boards. Like John indicated in his comment about the Bible, you might be a little off-topic.

John, it's a bit difficult to address the topic of "blessing" an abortion clinic without deciding whether this is a truly christian act. In order to do so, I referred to the Bible. Meredith refers to the Catholic Encyclopedia. Early commenters classified the ministers who conducted the clinic "blessing" as being "3 clergy of Moloch" and "Baal" and other biblical references followed. Were they all off topic? My point is that you need some sort of standard for deciding what is truly christian and what is not. If I was off topic it'd be nice if you elaborated a bit on your point.
Regarding debates with Roman catholics, since these abortuary "blessings" were conducted by protestant ministers it hardly seems proper to view this as a "catholic vs. protestant" issue.

Zorak, regarding whether the Disciples should eat Christ's body or not, did they take out knives and start eating parts of Him and gulping up His blood? Uh, no. Christ was clearly tying the blessing of the traditional Passover meal (which used bread and wine) to His coming sacrificial death. You know, the Bible often uses metaphors. As in John 10:9, where Christ says "I am the door." Now, do you believe Christ is a door, perhaps with a knob sticking out of his side? No, he was clearly speaking metaphorically about a greater truth. Just so in the blessing of the bread and wine. Christ Himself explains this in Matthew and Luke (22:19 "do this in remembrance of me"). Zorak, are you asserting that the bread and wine are so endowed that anyone who has ever taken communion has eternal life (i.e., is going to heaven)? This is the only logical conclusion from your use of the text. If so, wow. I don't believe any denomination teaches that...so why don't you take your own advice and read the Bible with a desire to understand what God has provided for all of us?

Fallen Sparrow, perhaps you ought to define what you mean by "sola scriptura" before claiming it is extrabiblical? Because at some point you encounter a contradiction: when you say that the Bible allows for "extrabiblical" revelation you are still relying on the Bible as the primary source of God's revelation. Put another way, if you say that some other source of revelation trumps what is taught in the Bible, you're in a poor position to subsequently teach from the Bible. For example, to claim that Matt 16:18-19 (and other passages) establish the disciples/apostles as leaders of the church is certainly correct. But to teach that "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" give anyone a blank check to overrule what the Bible says is logically incoherent. You're cutting down the platform on which you stand. So again, your claim that Sola Scriptura is extrabiblical really depends on how you define the doctrine. Fallen Sparrow, you are the one who needs to do more explaining before I can say anything more.

To stay "on topic" my original point still stands: blessings that are for anything other than a person or place of worship are extrabiblical. This should bother you if you believe that at some point people view christianity as a ritualistic race to collect more "blessings" or that clergy have the power to bless that which opposes the God of the Bible. Would you agree that the blessing of the abortuary takes this practice too far? If so, you might also ask yourself at what point the worship of our awesome God is trivialized by "blessings" of objects that are not strictly used to worship Him.
Scott Allen | 01.24.08 - 2:48 pm | #

Doing a quick lookup on the folks that performed the "blessing" all I can say is they really need to read Matthew 7:15-23!

Bill Levering is on the Clergy Advisory Board for Planned Parenthood of America.

That must be his fruit, so we can recognize them.
Chris Arsenault | 01.24.08 - 4:32 pm | #

I heard this particular headline on...most likely NPR local news when I woke up, and said to myself, "who with the what now?!"

It didn't register as an actual news story in my head. I honestly thought that I had hallucinated it when I was half-asleep.

Schenectady, interestingly, is home to two fine Catholic bookstores. It's Albany's poorer cousin and not in very good shape financially, and I'm saddened but not surprised that PP needed to build such a large facility there.
Joan | Homepage | 01.24.08 - 5:04 pm | #

L -
What is the difference between pro-choice and pro abortion? I'm confused.

Jody -
I've missed you. As to blessings, they are an outward sign of the sanctity of our daily lives and rituals. Blessing a house is completely appropriate. I have my father's rosary. It was blessed when he was a boy, and he blessed it with the ritual of his prayer. When I have it in my hands, I feel the blessing of both.

As to blessing the abortion clinic as "sacred ground," I think the clergy don't know what they are asking for.
ave | 01.24.08 - 5:36 pm | #

Hey there, ave!
(Happy 2008 - we all deserve it! I hope...)
Jody Tresidder | 01.24.08 - 5:50 pm | #

You know, we could collectively pray a blessing on the new clinic there in Schenectady.

We could ask our Heavenly Father to bless that space by keeping it empty. That it would be as barren and void as a womb becomes from an abortion.

That all pregnant women who approach that place, be convicted by the Holy Spirit, that they flee in terror at the sight of that evil, and that they declare God's grace and mercy in saving them and their children. That they might see the hope and joy that these children bring into their lives. That they would rejoice in the love for their children. And their children would love them deeply and forgive them with an innocence and purity that would banish their mother's despair and heal their hearts.

Yes - it would be good Father, for the children to live, that their presence would convict their biological fathers for lacking courage and responsibility in being men who care for and loving these women and following in your ways. That they might grow to be true men and women of God - your children Father!

Men and women who would stand up without shame, without fear and proudly declare that they speak out against abortion because their mothers approached the clinic and then by Your Mighty Hand their lives were spared.

That the voice of these godly children that you raise up Lord, might be like thunder in the ears of those who would stand to call upon you for their own evil ways. That the thundering voice of your people would convict those who stood silent when the clinic was built, who refused to stand when they were called, and that there would be great repentence in this nation.

We thank you Father for such a blessing on that place. Lord, please hear the prayers of your faithful that we ask for your glory, that your will be done here on earth, through the forgiving sacrifice of your Son, Jesus Christ. Amen.

Yes - we could pray a blessing on that place - to let them know who is God.
Chris Arsenault | 01.25.08 - 8:16 am | #

WHY? Why bother having clergy bless an abortion facility? What's the whole point of it? I just don't get it.

I'm not sure that I agree with it in this case, but I'm pretty sure the point is to make a statement against the conservative monopolization of religion - the idea that you can't be religious without being pro-life (as well as anti-gay, anti-evolution, pro-abstinence only education, etc.).
jfpbookworm | Homepage | 01.25.08 - 10:29 am | #

Great prayer, Chris. I say Amen.
John | Homepage | 01.25.08 - 12:18 pm | #

What a beautiful prayer. Thank you.
Laura | 01.25.08 - 5:32 pm | #

Of course women can control their own bodies. The problem is, some women and some medics and, it seems some clergy, want women to control the bodies of the children they carry. Abortion is a murderous and lazy contraceptive, no more. Pro-Choice is a euphemism because even those who favour abortion know it is distasteful and that the word conjures up images of murdered babies. Simple fact. If something is living, as a foetus is, and as a result of your actions it is no longer living, then you have killed it. And tha'ts murder.
Paddy Murray | Homepage | 01.26.08 - 8:02 am | #

In time, that place won't need a blessing. It'll need an exorcism.
JonathanR. | 01.26.08 - 10:46 pm | #

Scott,

Following Sola Scriptura is much like asking someone to live by sight alone. Not impossible but very difficult.

Some of us believe we should also live by tradition as well. The Apostle Paul exhorted us to live by what he taught us both in word and in writing. Some of us believe that the verbal teaching of Paul and the other apostles is carried forward in tradition. If we live by faith we do believe that the Spirit of God is present in the Church and sanctifying it even though it is carried on through us flawed and sinful people.

We walk by faith and not simply by the sight of written words. We believe so that we may come to understand.

What a wonderful prayer! I have copied it off and placed it above my desk.

May God's loving hand rest on all those who go there. May He who made us lead us all closer to Him.

May God lead us to compassion for all as only HE can give anyone the graces to change their hearts and their actions. May he give all reading this hearts of flesh and feeling.
John C. Huntley | 01.28.08 - 9:57 am | #

John, I asked Fallen Sparrow to define how he/she defines Sola Scriptura because it's silly for me to argue against a "straw man." Such is possibly what you're doing here. Since you really don't define it, either, I'll take it that you're literally following the Latin "Scripture Alone" and have not read about what the doctrine really means.

For example, no church that I'm aware of completely ignores tradition. It's a question of when Scripture and other "Authority" collide, which do you follow? For example, the Episcopal church uses a "triad" of Authority consisting of Scripture, Tradition, and Reason. It has concluded that homosexuality is OK. How? This is what happens when Scripture can been overruled by anything else, in this case (allegedly) by "Reason."

While I did not ever advocate Sola Scriptura in any of my comments, I do believe that Scripture is our principal and overruling authority.

So does Scripture completely rule out "blessing" of inanimate objects that serve no purpose in worship? No. But I've met Roman catholics, for example, who know far more about the various "blessed" trinkets they collect than the Bible. They are faithful to wearing certain medals or bury statues upside down when selling their houses but do they love God? I certainly don't know, but if they love God they would love His Word and know it. Why do I say this? Because it's all over the place in...the Bible.

In sum, the Bible does not advocate a super-strict Sola Scripture, but it does tell us to know Scripture and follow it.
Scott Allen | 01.29.08 - 11:09 am | #

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