DC
This guy hasn't a clue of what he is talking about and kicking his ass should be done in short order.
He talks about the 'Mythical WMD', if that is the case how did all those kurds die. he sounds like the maleized version of Motha' sheehan.
and of course their is the Nasty-Neo-cons who want world domination and of course the war for oil.
He is spewing the democrat party line word for word.
As I have stated previously, the machinations for war were in place before the WMD question came up. The war in Irag WAS NOT about WMD, this is what the Libs don't want to admit or can't, the war was about enforcing the UN violations 16 to be exact, saddam had to be held accountable and this was the basis of the war, WMD was an extra. As a matter of fact the war is actually a continuation of the Gulf war, there was never a treaty signed just a cease fire, and hostilities could resume at any point(The no fly zones were testamony to that) depending on Saddams compliance with the first two resolutions. Of course saddam didn't comply with any of them and Clinton was too weak and involved with Monika to take care of his country. So we reached the point of vulnerabilty in 2001.
Blair was the one to bring up the WMD question and Bush backed him up as any ally would.
Now the question of faulty intellegence. This is striking, because the fact that the intelligence is shared, what would be the point of not sharing all the known intelligence with members of congress, this would be easily found out by congress and would certainly embarrass the administration, so if the intelligence was bad everybody got the same intell.
But his final statement about the president being unqualified to lead the country in time of war. Where the hell is this moron coming from, ...probably Massachusetts, in any war what makes a president qualified to lead his country into war, Was FDR qualified, or for that matter Lincoln. Neither was prepared for the casualties( before Bull Run someone in the administration remarked disdainfully, about civil war, that all the blood to be shed could be cleaned up with a pocket hanky) that is for sure, Lincoln kept searching for a General who could lead and FDR was stuck with a country whose main concern was to stay out of the war. But even the congress for the most part supported the war, respectively, and when they didn't Lincoln had them arrested, it was important for the continuity of the fight.
What this dissent is about is their hatred for Bush, and the Communists agenda.
A sign at Harvard Square says it best of what these people are all about.
"Socialism is much better than Capitalism and communism will be a far better world".
Well said, Mark. I hope you left a comment at Jess's site to the same effect.
Travis fails to discuss at all any of the events that occurred prior to the Bush Administration. For the Left, this is when the world began to end. All else is irrelevant.
As such, his argument breaks down before it starts. He cites no evidence of the "lying", either. Just Demo talking points, as you mention.
And where is the oil, any way?
DC
No I did not leave a post there, I didn't know I could because as I understood it, the questions were to you and the commie. But I thought I could feed you the ammo and you could fire the Ma-Deuce.
Mark, you can comment over there. Feel free. I didn't want to jump in first.
I am a staunch conservative and College Republican leader, who strongly opposed this war from the start. There is nothing truly conservative, nothing truly 'republican,' about our government's current policy in Iraq.
Mad John McCain (R.I.N.O.-AZ) has been a hardcore supporter of this war, and of other interventions in past years... Anyway, he is the reason I am here. I don't know if I've ever been to this weblog before, but I found a listing, on the sidebar of the 'And Rightly So' weblog, about the "Blogroll for McCain's Opponent."
I have been less-active in the Blogosphere lately, due to work, graduate school, and College Republicans, but I wish I knew about this blogroll... I am also about to join another blogroll that I recently found - the "U.S. Out of the U.N." one. How do I get onto the McCain blogroll? Do all of the members have to list the full blogroll on their weblogs? Thanks for starting this one!
I admit to not having read the material for this discussion. But I've prowled around the conservative polemics (mags, blogs, etc.) and find that Aakash isn't alone. Lots of conservatives dislike the war, and they're not all paleoconservatives like Buchanan.
The most persuasive argument against the war isn't that Iraq wasn't worth it, or that the assumptions behind it are wrong, but that we've been left exposed militarily because of it. We have threats more vast and immediate than Iraq, that is.
This is the kind of argument that we should be having with the organized opposition...the Democrats, instead of this stupid, childish obssession with WMD's. NO set of ideas about the war which is framed around the absence of WMD's is anything other than a bit of politiporn for lefty goofballs who are incapable of broader thinking on this or any other issue.
They don't belong in any discussion of our international obligations, or in any argument about defense policy. Time to scrape them off. This issue only springs anew in the mushy brains of lefties because it has marginal moral and practical components...someone LIED and we made a MISTAKE, which is the intellectual skimcoat lefties bring to every issue. Screw them. Don't waste your time on these dopes.
Rhod,
You make an excellent point. If we had a "loyal opposition", this is the kind of argument we would have, i.e., what happens if N. Korea blows up?
But the Hard Left is about trying to destroy Bush and is openly rooting for the enemy. Why bother with them? As I have discussed, I wonder. And I often don't. There are other factors at work with them that have nothing to do with me or this debate.
But, I engage them primarily because people of goodwill are watching. People on our side. People on the other side of this debate who may not have heard an argument that needs to be made. Sometimes, people just need to be reminded of things.
I also believe that dealing with the arguments substantively (as we do here) and respectfully (which we usually do) moves the ball forward just by itself. Why? Because it shows the contrast between us and the opposition, and this in itself is persuasive for the people of good faith who are watching. And demoralizing to the other side.
That is, the Leftists watching will hopefully note the resolve and ability to think. If they think this through, they will then begin to despair and maybe ... just maybe ... join the good guys.
I believe, as I know you do, that just standing up for what is right is a force to be reckoned with, in and of itself.
So ... there's what I am thinking.
Plus, I like Jess. He asked. He's a good guy, although he's probably with Travis on this one.
DC:
Point taken, and you're right. I wasn't referring to Jess, specifically, but the WMD chant that crops up here and elsewhere, over and over and over...
Trying to explain the Bush Doctrine, (including it's faults, mistakes and reach) to Lefties is like trying to explain a microwave to a chimpanzee. This nation is not debating this war or the environment around it in any meaningful way.
The only trace of formed opinion I can find on the complacent Left is that they believe in the first half of The White Man's Burden, which is that the world is full of people who are simply less, in every sense, than Western Man.
Doing something about it is up to NGO's, the UN, and other corrupt and useless money toilets. Anyone still stuck in this revolving door isn't going to be persuaded of a more complicated view. Arguing with these people I have the vivid sense of being eighteen again, struggling against the yoke of obsolete, useless and bygone ideas, of being stuck in the mental concrete of a superseded generation.
With all these matters unaddressed in the upper tiers of government, we now have the contemptible Harry Reid crowing over extinguishing the Patriot Act, the witless Levin snarling about the FISA wiretaps, and
a lamenting Greek chorus of Donk zombies in the House and Senate wailing about impeaching Bush.
I have never seen it this bad, and I remember the 1960's.
Aakash,
Shoot me an email and I will send you the code.
I am a centrist. I agree with alot on the right and a lot on the left. I have said it before and will say it again here. I never left the republican party they left me on February 16th 2004. Now, I must go I see too many good looking women here in Vegas. So, I will leave you with this. If we do not try to find common ground we will live in a divided nation.
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