Nerd, are you saying you believe those cops had every right to start blasting away at those men because of how they were DRESSED? Please tell me that's not what you're saying.
Please?
No disrespect Sicka but did you read the piece in its entirety? This was perhaps my longest entry since the blog's inception and that's the single issue that you can point out? The Queens case involved a CULMINATION of events that resulted in the death of Sean Bell. What I was essentially stating was that people of color have to start to analyze their complicity in SOME of the thuggish perception that makes it EASIER for the police to harrass them. I specifically stated dress and MANNERISMS. When the radio show starts I can even be more specific. ALL I am saying is we have to stop making it easy in garnering police attention. I have been stopped by the police before(not often, but it HAS happened) and TRUST me I'm going to act in a certain non threatening way.....NOW if something happens, my standing (no criminal records, no drug or gun charges, no stereotypical perceptions) will play a role in proving the given officer(s) having displayed misconduct. The Queens case in particular involved Sean Bell & his friends attempting to ram their auto into a police vehicle along with prior "gun talk" in the club....again a series of events led to this tragedy....check out this link and perhaps you will think differently:
http://www.sweetness-light.com/a...ooting-of-
groom
Yes, younger Black people must stop presenting themselves to the general public as thuggish illiterates that cannot speak standard English. Still, after discussing this case w/ my dad who is 62 and my husband who is 46, I have come to the conclusion that interactions w/ the police can be dangerous to the health of even law-abiding, standard dialect speaking Black people. I know too many Black men (my brothers and other friends) who have been profiled and humilated for walking while black, driving while black, and generally breathing while black. No criminal records or arrests among this group. And no, they don't dress like corner boys, even though some like Timbs and Throwback jerseys.
I've known many police officers, all Black, personally, and they usually have very little sympathy or tolerance for the general public. We are "pains in the ass" that can make their days difficult at best and dangerous in the worst instances. Police think "blue" and for all of your stated reasons and some other historical ones, Black people are too often seen as public enemy #1.
While it would be refreshing if Sharpton, et al, and some hip-hop "leaders" would encourage our youth to look better and do right, sadly I don't think they ever will. "Keeping it real" is the order of the day and it is killing our community.
I'm disappointed in your article, your response and your assumption that I wasn't able to fully comprehend the article in its entirety. So whenyou step outside you must be wearing Docker khaki pants, Boater shoes and a blue shirt. An office designed to make you appear professional? I bet if they put you in a police line-up dressed like that along w/other black men in their Timberlands and North Pole outfits they witnesses would STILL have a hard time distinguishing you. Sad indeed.
Well Sicka perhaps we just can not agree on this is issue....and that's fine....we can't expect to reach an agreement on every issue. You stated that you DID read the entire entry but your response still focuses on the dress issue so I'm still perplexed. But in all due respect, as much as I appreciate your interest in the blog, it may not be up your alley as we espouse conservative views here and do not believe in a victimization ideological perspective that many liberal blogs propogate. I am a man of color and I am not naive to police misconduct but when do WE admit that there is a thuggish aesthetic to commercial hip hop and the fashion that accompanies it......a fashion standard that many of our minority youth choose to wear believing that there isn't a message attached to it. If you believe in the victimization standard then there is nothing a black man can do and according to your supposition ALL Black men are powerless...I just don't believe that....your khaki/docker reference also implies that I am trying to curry White favor by dressing in such a manner....that is also incorrect. Why can't a person of color dress in a classy respectful way WITHOUT any implication that he/she is trying to please White folk? If you look at old photos of Black folk(say Harlem photos, in particular)...we were the paragons of fashion and dignity. Hip Hop fashion today which derives from the prison/criminal culture does not engender dignity....it is a reminder of criminality...this is irrefutable and Black folks need to get real about the signal that it sends. A brother with a tight non threatening fashion sense is NOT going to raise the attention of the police the same way that a do-rag, jewelry and side wearing cap person would.....and either way, how you handle yourself and whether you conform to stereotypical behavior DOES play SOME kind of role in the potential outcome when police interaction is involved. I hope you continue reading the blog but again this may not be the place for you.
What does baggy pants and hoodies have to do with Bell being shot and killed? What does the fact that the 3 were hanging out at a strip club in Jamaica, Queens have to do with the reality that 1 is dead and the other 2 hospitalized with bullets in their system? All of that doesn't exclude the excessiveness of the 50 bullets. That was too much. What happened to proper procedures? If someone attempts to get away in a car the cops are suppose to shoot the tires. If someone attempts to get away on foot the cops are to shoot the back of their knees. Not continually shoot at the car. I guess you see I don't agree with your antics. Yes its sad that our young men walk the streets the way they do and that they take part in some of the things they do but come on you know they all aren't "bad boys" and we (including police) can't immediately jump on them because of that. If cops speculate they're suppose to gather more information, its called investigate. Then once they have enough act on it. Maybe they all just need to go back to basic training !!!!!!
I really would suggest you re-read my article, because I did not suggest that Bell's type of dress, specifically caused his death..there appeared to be a number of issues that everyone chooses to ignore. Why is my opinion considered an "antic?" I'm a person with my own free will and mind and I can think for myself. The fact that he and his friends possessed numerous offenses including drug and gun charges I guess make them model citizens in your opinion. Did they deserve to be shot?.....No..but I suspect that their demeanor played a role in this case resulting in death and injury. Those who are criminals definitely carry themselves differently than non-criminal citizens....as far as the dressing issue which for some reason is the ONLY point that a few commenters appeared to have read, I believe is valid as it brings unnecessary attention to men who choose to wear these clothes. It's like a woman who wears stripper clothing and then expects to be treated like the queen of England....it's just not realistic. And as far as the fifty shots....I stated this in the entry...how many would make you feel comfortable? In the cop's mind, if he or they felt threatened there is no way to tell what prompted then sto shoot.....ANYONE who is threatened is not going to have manners regarding how many shots they feel they need to take in order to survive. It's very easy to take your position if you have never been in a PERCEIVED threatening situation. ALL I have ever stated is that if anyone of us is in a situation with the cops your demeanor and standing should play a role in making sure that a police misconduct situation should stick.
I wonder how many of those that are responding to this entry, and are female, will hold on to their purses just a little bit tighter when one of these, baggy jean, long t-shirt, do-rag wearing individuals crosses paths with you as you're walking down the street?
On second thought, I already know the answer. Damn, the truth sure is a bitter pill to swallow for some folks.
After reading you blog I felt necessary to address the following points
“1 Policing is a stressful, difficult and dangerous job that no sane person wants to do.”
Although this may be true no one forced anyone to become a police officer, just as no one forced you to start this blog. The point being individual’s make choices some people chose to become police officers (regardless of the fact that it is a difficult and dangerous job). If only insane individuals are employed as police officers then they should be held fully accountable when they engage in insane activities.
“2 Police officers (some who are also persons of color) have been killed in the line of duty leaving families (like the victim's in this case) orphaned and widowed. The key difference is that Sharpton, to my knowledge has not shown up for cases like these.”
Unfortunately, police officers have been killed in the line of duty and might I add that all death (regardless of the color of the victim) is tragic. What I don’t understand is you pointing out the fact that Sharpton, to your knowledge has not shown up for cases like these. Perhaps the reason he has not shown up is because everyone know that when an officer is killed in the line of duty the police and the justice system sees to it that the perpetrators are punished to the fullest extent of the law. There is no need for him to show up.
If this is not so, please site a case when an officer was killed in the line duty by a criminal and where that criminal was let off.
In addition I am not one to put words in words in people’s mouths so I would like a little more clarification on the Sharpton comment. Is it your position that Sharpton does not care when a police officer is killed?
“3 And of course, you do have reprehensible cases of police misconduct and corruption.”
And rarely are the police punished for these cases of police misconduct and or corruption.
“1 The police have to discern who has criminal intent in an atmosphere that idolizes rebel behavior thanks to commercial hip hop imagery. Gone are the days when the heroes and villains wore opposing color schemes. Now there are legions of Black and Brown youth, whose fashion sense and mannerisms mimic those comprised of the thug element. Many are not criminals but (a la 50 cent) how is one to tell the difference between a gangsta and a wanksta.”
Why is it that the police never have a problem with those within the white community who love Hip Hop, discerning who has criminal intent in an atmosphere that idolizes rebel behavior thanks to commercial hip hop imagery?
Not to mention I was not aware that there was a time when the “hero’s and villains” wore opposing color schemes. What were those opposing color schemes and when was this time.
It is my opinion that through out time the youth (and I use youth loosely) have always followed the fashion and trends set by popular culture. Whether that be zuits suits in the forties, bell bottoms and afros
I just realized that my original post was truncated about half way through it. As a result I will re- post it in its entirety this evening.
JC
To be honest I don't have a specific # that is appropriate. But 50 is way too many to me. I would expect that from someone who has been to Iraq in the middle of war. As for the clothing issue ....... we are just commenting to the words you had to say regarding this "thuggish look". The point at hand is, 50 shots killed/ seriously injured 3. They say they were threatened. But how? Then to find there was no gun!!!! Too late Mr. Officer. Many of these stories and "witnesses" just aren't adding up in my book and I guess we'll just have to sit back and see what happens. No matter what we say, argue or try to prove it won't sway their judgement----we weren't there.
After reading the blog, and the comments from it, I feel that there is a misunderstanding of what the blog is actually saying.
The point is that there are more than one factor for the events that happen in life. The point of how African American youth dress is very relevant, because our culture's desire to embrace "thug life" is part of problem. As AfroNerd stated, police do not know who is posing and who is a real thug. Accordingly, they must treat every situation seriously.
A blogger questioned why white males who embrace the rap culture don't get shot. The answer, simoly put, is that when they do get into trouble, the quickly disable their act. African Americans continue to act the part of thug with volgur language which blurs the acting into reality.
Someone else wrote that police rarely get punished for misconduct. This is false, wrong, and spoken without any facts to support it.
Again, another blogger wrote that "police are supposed to shoot at the tires...." What police manual have you read? Do you know the procedures, or do you watch Cops and movies to the point that you feel you are an expert.
Afro-Nerds blog made sure to illustrate that the case, up to this point, is hazy. We don't know the facts. He is taking the opprotunity to address cultural issues based in the incident. If we, as an African American community, cannot posess the ability to reflect on the negatives of our own culture, we are destined to failure.
Continue the good work Afro-Nerd.
Young Black Man
Here is my response reposted in its entirety. My rebuttal to some of the posted responses to this will follow when time permits.
After reading you blog I felt necessary to address the points
“1 Policing is a stressful, difficult and dangerous job that no sane person wants to do.”
Although this may be true no one forced anyone to become a police officer, just as no one forced you to start this blog. The point being individual’s make choices some people chose to become police officers (regardless of the fact that it is a difficult and dangerous job). If only insane individuals are employed as police officers then they should be held fully accountable when they engage in insane activities.
“2 Police officers (some who are also persons of color) have been killed in the line of duty leaving families (like the victim's in this case) orphaned and widowed. The key difference is that Sharpton, to my knowledge has not shown up for cases like these.”
Unfortunately, police officers have been killed in the line of duty and might I add that all death (regardless of the color of the victim) is tragic. What I don’t understand is you pointing out the fact that Sharpton, to your knowledge has not shown up for cases like these. Perhaps the reason he has not shown up is because everyone know that when an officer is killed in the line of duty the police and the justice system sees to it that the perpetrators are punished to the fullest extent of the law. There is no need for him to show up.
If this is not so, please site a case when an officer was killed in the line duty by a criminal and where that criminal was let off.
In addition I am not one to put words in words in people’s mouths so I would like a little more clarification on the Sharpton comment. Is it your position that Sharpton does not care when a police officer is killed?
“3 And of course, you do have reprehensible cases of police misconduct and corruption.”
And rarely are the police punished for these cases of police misconduct and or corruption.
“1 The police have to discern who has criminal intent in an atmosphere that idolizes rebel behavior thanks to commercial hip hop imagery. Gone are the days when the heroes and villains wore opposing color schemes. Now there are legions of Black and Brown youth, whose fashion sense and mannerisms mimic those comprised of the thug element. Many are not criminals but (a la 50 cent) how is one to tell the difference between a gangsta and a wanksta.”
Why is it that the police never have a problem with those within the white community who love Hip Hop, discerning who has criminal intent in an atmosphere that idolizes rebel behavior thanks to commercial hip hop imagery?
Not to mention I was not aware that there was a time when the “hero’s and villains” wore opposing color schemes. What were those opposing color schemes and when was this time.
It is my opinion that through out time the youth (and I use youth loosely) have alway
Again my post was cut, off hopefully the third time is a charm.
It is my opinion that through out time the youth (and I use youth loosely) have always followed the fashion and trends set by popular culture. Whether that be zuits suits in the forties, bell bottoms and afros in the in the seventies, or today Hip Hop fashion. I could go on forever but I think you get the point. For the most part the youths fashion sense and mannerisms have always mimic those of the popular culture. Unfortunately today’s popular culture is dominated by the thug
element.
You then go on to ask the question how is one to tell the difference between a gangster and a wankster! The problem is the police have never been interested in making this determination when it comes to policing the Black community.
“2 Not only do you have a street culture that has risen to mythic proportions but also street ethics that manifest in "stop snitchin'" policies-the ghetto version of the Italian omerta. At one time snitching meant that if two or more parties were involved in a crime and one gets caught, that person would not "rat" his cohorts out. This ghetto omerta has morphed into just not providing any information if someone gets hurt or killed. The murderer of an innocent simply gets a pass. Just ask Busta Rhymes.”
If were going mention “Stop Snitching” let us not forget about the blue wall of silence. Or does this type of non-snitching get a pass?
“3 And lastly, we have a youth culture that unfortunately fulfill the stereotypes that have been ascribed to them. In the Bell case, all three parties had numerous arrests for drug and weapon charges in the past. The media has been hampering on the amount of shots in this case. How many shots would have been appropriate? One. Ten. Fifteen? If these officers (who were mostly minorities-which diminishes the usual black/white dynamic) honestly thought that there was a legitimate threat, how many shots would make the public comfortable? Yes, these gentleman were unarmed but how would the officers have known this? Children with fake guns have been killed under similar circumstances....when the smoke clears, it's another tragic mistake. If these victims were profiled....guess what?.....they were correctly profiled. Did they deserve to get shot? No...but in this realm of street culture where signals can get crossed, tragedy is sure to lurk in the shadows. As you can see, I have a lot to say about this case and my next entry will be an addendum piece. For the latest developments pertaining to the Queens shooting (including a Stanley Crouch editorial) click on the links below:”
You point out in the Bell case that all three parties had numerous arrests for drug and weapon charges in the past. Please explain to me how any of this is relevant to what happen. Is it your position that the cops were aware of this when they approached these gentlemen? Not to mention what crime did the officer witness these individuals committing?
I guess not be that as it may.
You point out in the Bell case that all three parties had numerous arrests for drug and weapon charges in the past. Please explain to me how any of this is relevant to what happen. Is it your position that the cops were aware of this when they approached these gentlemen? Not to mention what crime did the officer witness these individuals committing? If the officers “honestly” thought that there was a “legitimate threat” why did they not call for back up? If the officers thought that the three men were armed why not call in the blue and whites to make or at lest assist with the arrest. Why put your life in danger when there was no threat to you or anyone else at the moment.
“If these victims were profiled....guess what?.....they were correctly profiled.”
Although I do agree with some of your positions on certain items, it was this statement that makes it hard for me to come any agreement with you on this issue.
The police have a history of profiling and harassing blacks no matter our dress code, location, demeanor, car type, etc. For you to suggest that they were correctly profiled when the police have a history of any nigger will do is sad indeed.
JC
JC...I acknowledge your points but I honestly think that my latest addendum entry answered some of your key rebuttals as well as "Young Black Man's" post. I will still try to address some of your key rebuttals.
1) regarding the "sanity" of the police...it appears that you took a "tit for tat" approach when it was obvious that my reference to someone being "insane" if they were to choose law enforcement was a metaphorical question. One could be "insane" if you wanted to be a surgeon(could you cut into someone?), or a fireman or a soldier also.....sure they rely on one's free will but I bet you are glad SOMEONE chooses these positions because they are lifesaving vocations. Again it really wasn't a LITERAL referendum on the sanity of someone becoming a cop.
2)I'm no fan of the blue wall of silence either but there is a degree of misconduct in ALL professions....nursing, doctors, the clergy, teaching..you name it.....my contention is....BLATENT acts involving a known victim that are given a pass is a bit different than police misconduct. I sincerely doubt that the stop snitchin' rule is consciously used as counter to the blue wall. Corporations have a similar confidentiality provision against whistle blowing also....similar accept the key component is the code of the street appears to give a indiscriminate "pass" for murder, rape or assault whether the victim is yourself, a friend, infant, grandmother or parent. The Blue wall just seems to involve officers when ONE of their own is accused of impropriety. What do you OWE a stranger, drug dealer or ACQUAINTANCE for killing a loved one? Busta Rhymes friend and bodyguard is dead and the best he can get is a shout out on wax? Stop Snitchin' is a perverted form of the blue wall or omerta. The blue wall, while reprehensible, involves KNOWN colleagues....comparing the "street" which is a non-specific entity to the "police" a specific unit of people just seems to not be a fair comparison.
IN addition, I try to write and speak in a pragmatic sense....not theory. Please read Young Black Man's latest entry regarding what he sees up close and personal as a law student working in the DA's office. Here is the link-
http://youngblackman.wordpress.c...cial-profiling/
Again he sees what the other side of profiling encompasses...a side that many Black folks really do not want to own up to.
When are we going to expand the Black image? or at least do some kind of damage control. If there were more KNOWN Black archetyypes perhaps the "thug" image would not be the de facto aesthetic that the world points to when Blackness is defined. Even friendly fire occurs due to the engrained instantaneous perception that Black male=criminal.....wearing a criminals garb just doesn't help any....when I see the news(perhaps biased), entertainment media and now Young Black Man's blog experience you are not seeing young urban males being walked away in cuffs wearing Brooks Bros(perhaps the Ken Lays' or Tyco execs) but not brothers....again there is your theory and wishful thinking and there is reality....more Black men in prison than in college is a national disease and practical sound intervention at the root(not JUST historical and societal factors) must also be applied. Women(as my Dave Chappelle analogy demonstrates) want to use a similar logic(or lack thereof).....we can talk about how things should be or how they ARE....you choose. The reality is as Young Black man stated earlier is that Whites in thug attire can (and do) change modes when it becomes necessary and no one is looking at Whites(whether they should be or not) as literally "the criminal" or the "thug" in a "blink.".....they ARE with the inner city brother that chooses to conform to a stereotype....it may be wrong but it IS what is happening either we deal with it or continue to pontificate on why it's wrong or admit that many Blacks and Whites are put off by thug attire.....do you get a warm fuzzy feeling when you see a person wearing a swastika or a Klan robe?....I doubt it..let's stop the nonsense and get real.
And my suggestion that Sharpton should get involved when a cop gets killed in a street incident is purely so he doesn't look like he is ONLY involved in racial dynamic matters...it's called credibility. many Black folks are equally(if not moreso) affected by street crime as they are by racism.....why not address it? And if he HAD to racialize the cop being killed....if a Black cop is killed by a Black assailant..guess what? it's still Black on Black crime and a tragedy....it's still another working/middle class Black family devestated by a street crime and should warrant Sharpton's moral threshold....again it LOOKS good and would shut down some of his critics by looking less like an opportunist.
I have read some of the responses in this blog and found them interesting and shocking. I will never be able to say this is a perfect world so I must embrace the reality that people are Good and Bad. Which are you? Judge not to be judged and be responsible for your acts of omission and comission.
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