Really disappointing. I remember seeing them in rallies dressed like they were headed to school, not making a political statement. Someone needs to stress to these kids the importance of how you present yourself.
Why are you allowing yourself to be bamboozled? Justice is not a privilege for only the well behaved or the morally stringent. As I've said in the past some victims of lyching were probably guilty of the accused crime. That made them no less worthy of standing fair trial and receiving usual standards of punishment.
The Jena 6 case is a classic example of biased application of neutral laws. These guys did something that should have been handled by the school and maybe civil court or juvenile court. But serious jail time for beating up a kid who goes to a party later that same night? You gotta be kidding.
As a father, I've tried my best to instill good values in my child. I'm sure that she will do something to disappoint me. But should she go to jail for pushing someone in the hallway? How much is enough?
Why do we make examples of athletes and entertainers who violate laws but convicted federal officials get pardons or can vote on national matters after they've admitted to soliciting for gay sex in public rest rooms? Why does the wife of Enron founder Ken Lay get to keep her assets? Is William Kristol embarrassed that a white boy shot up a school?
It would have been nice if they had worn suits, but they are young and it was the Hip Hop show or whatever...so what do you expect.
I think they look fine, considering where they were...i am sure if they are invited to the NAACP awards that they will whip out their Sunday best.
Submariner, let us get a few things straight. I will list commentary after each of the paragraphs from your post.
"Why are you allowing yourself to be bamboozled? Justice is not a privilege for only the well behaved or the morally stringent. As I've said in the past some victims of lyching were probably guilty of the accused crime. That made them no less worthy of standing fair trial and receiving usual standards of punishment."
SOME of the Jena 6 critics have not been bamboozled. SOME of them are of the opinion that these guys are thugs. The 6 youths attacked and beat another youth unconscious. Among them was a youth who had a criminal history of violent crimes and he was on probation at the time of the attack. You do not have to agree with their point but at least understand SOME of the critics. Additionally, SOME of the Jena critics would have preferred that the protest be about prosecutorial overreach rather than about race. SOME of the Jena critics had some disengenuous reasons for leaving race out of the equation: If the attack is the result of a racist incident (the noose incident), as the NAACP asserts, and if the noose incident was four months old at the time of the attack, and the victim of the Jena 6 was white, THEN who engaged in a racist act? Do the math. 6 Black youths beat a white youth unconscious in a racially charged environment. You are not understanding how SOME people are viewing this.
Personally, from the outset, I saw Mychal Bell as a criminal who violated his probation and that was true. All witnesses to the attack (white and black) did not connect it to the noose incident. And I already mentioned that the noose incident was four months old at the time of the attack. Please explain to me why I should view Mychal Bell as a victim of racism? At best he is a victim of prosecutorial overreach. In fact, according to his record, he is a recidivist who, after violating his probation with yet another criminal act of violence, was a victim of prosecutorial overreach.
Here is another question: How did his black attorney allow for Bell to be tried as an adult at the age of 16? Here is another question: Did Bell's attorney do something about the fact that only half of the 100 jury summonses had responses AND that all 50 of the respondents were white? There is no way that you can tell me that all 100 summonses were directed to white people.
Submariner, a lot of black people were bamboozled. A lot of facts were left out when word of Jena started to break. That's why a lot of black folks started donning their "Free the Jena 6" T-Shirts. They did not have the facts. Think about it: Why on earth is anyone going to demand freedom for people found guilty of a crime?
Please rethink this Jena thing.
Al, I think you've completely missed Submariners point. Whatever the Jena 6's motivations were or whatever their criminal history may have been, trumping up their charges like this is in-just.
There is nothing 'conservative' about and exaggerated criminal prosecution.
Thank you, Mario, for making my point more explicit. Al, I feel partially like you do. I'm not emotionally invested in the Jena 6, T.I., Michael Vick or any other high profile legal case. I broke my vow to defer commenting on this titillating topic because Dburt and others would somehow use the fact that these guys attended a BET pageant and wore eccentric clothing to obscure the injustice done to them. Why not expand this standard of moral rectitude to include victims of lynching or the Middle Passage ? I'm absolutely sure some of those folks committed evil and were cooning it up at some point. And some female victims of rape are promiscuous. But these are spurious excuses.
Again , Al, I'm not saying these kids are innocent or were retaliating to some perceived threat or hate crime. The thing that is undeniable is that where blacks are involved there is an excess of such prosecutorial overreach and that is racist. According to Barbara Levine's Price of Privilege affluent white kids have higher levels of drug use and socially maladaptive behavior. But the enforcement side of the issue is aimed at blacks. In my undergraduate college it was white kids who sold drugs. Do you recall that Geraldine Ferraro's son was implicated in just such an act?
You can't convince me that it's right or fair for kids to go to jail for years for jumping another kid who later went to a party the same night. How come Dburt didn't do a piece of investigative journalism featuring a picture of the alleged victim laughing it up later that night? The requirements for strict moral behavior seem to be only on Blacks.
Submariner I know that you are aware that we do look at matters from a multi-dimensional perspective….no one is advocating unfair or unequal treatment under the law but there is also a legal standard colloquially referred to as “dirty hands”….akin to a drug dealer going to the police for the theft of his drugs…..and there is an element of this regarding the Jena matter…..Again, no doubt that these youths were railroaded almost in a similar fashion to that of the Duke Lacrosse players but my argument (much like Al’s) centers on the apparent disregard some Black supporters have for character flaws and/or issues that these victims often have. Mychal Bell already was in the system for previous thuggish acts and I refuse to base an entire movement on such an individual……This reminds me of the Mike Tyson affair years ago when upon his release from prison for rape charges, many Harlem residents were prepared to throw him a parade and we see what Tyson has become since then and mind you the rape of the young woman of color received no counter sympathy. Or perhaps the re-election of Marion Barry when common sense tells us not to vote in a crackhead………again. Even you have to admit submariner that some of us….perhaps from the underclass segment have a tendency to obfuscate character flaws in favor of faux racial solidarity…..perhaps the Jena teens deserved our support but they should have been drawn and quartered (figuratively) for their multiple acts of prior dysfunctionalism.
And we are also aware of wealthy Whites that display aberrant behavior and character flaws as well but we MUST address the disproportionate factors that are most attributable to people of color and we MUST also find a space where we can discuss these matters without ALWAYS having to juxtapose Whites and their aberrant behavior…..it’s often used to somehow assuage OUR situations…..Dr. Cosby will be on Oprah today…I suspect he will say the same thing……let’s discuss what WE do for a change with Black/White comparisons…..
The guys from Jena 6 look more punk rock than they do "ghetto" (minus the fitted hats). Their chains are wicked cool. If white dudes were wearing the same outfits they would look like rockers. Their clothes are fine.
Dburt, I agree with most of what you said. That is why I basically remained fairly distant from Jena. The protests blurred the distinctions between innocence and justice. For me it is a matter of fairness and proportionality. These guys may be guilty but they don't deserve hard time. Before Marion Barry's downfall I remember that Senator Al Damato was also implicated in ethically compromised positions but still enjoyed staunch support among his constituents. I don't think interracial comparisons by themselves are equivalent to excuses. It just prevents us from demonizing black folks.
"Even you have to admit submariner that some of us….perhaps from the underclass segment have a tendency to obfuscate character flaws in favor of faux racial solidarity…"
Maybe it's also celebrity. After all, there's hardly a short list of White celebs who've screwed up and had their flaws overlooked. Not to say that race isn't a part of it with the likes of Tyson and R. Kelly, but again, it's not just a Black thing.
Also, when you talk about 'apparent disregard some Black supporters have for character flaws and/or issues that these victims often have,' I have to ask, do those flaws and issues justify a disproportionate jail sentence? Who does that help and how? If we believe in justice we have to make sure it applies just as much to the least-deserving amongst us as it does to the best of us, otherwise it simply isn't justice at all.
Thanks for the shoutout...but no link?
Im too emotionally strained to invest my heart into the way black folks have been getting jerked around lately, but at its core the Jena 6 boys wearing these clown clothes is an issue of a lack of adult involvement. Just because we've created this shabby new version of the black family where its ok to have a babys momma at the age of 17 doesnt mean that 17 year old sdont need a lot of guidance. I was in INROADS and had supportive parents so maybe I knew better for those reaons, but jeez...to show up wearing party clothes when youre there to represent something is EXACTLY the kind of thing that holds us back.
If you notice, they are not wearing baggy jeans. The "rock star" look is in for young black males now.
It would have been nice if they had worn suits, but they are young and it was the Hip Hop show or whatever...so what do you expect.
I think they look fine, considering where they were...i am sure if they are invited to the NAACP awards that they will whip out their Sunday best.
sarah | 10.16.07 - 12:42 pm | #
I AGREE SARAH.
"According to Barbara Levine's Price of Privilege affluent white kids have higher levels of drug use and socially maladaptive behavior. But the enforcement side of the issue is aimed at blacks. In my undergraduate college it was white kids who sold drugs. Do you recall that Geraldine Ferraro's son was implicated in just such an act? "
Very important fact sumarnier
'And we are also aware of wealthy Whites that display aberrant behavior and character flaws as well but we MUST address the disproportionate factors that are most attributable to people of color and we MUST also find a space where we can discuss these matters without ALWAYS having to juxtapose Whites and their aberrant behavior…..it’s often used to somehow assuage OUR situations…"
Equally important Dburt.
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