Dburt, you're wrong on this gang sign issue. The fundamental problem for the NFL is finding effective tools to screen out prospects who are engaged in illicit activities. If every spontaneous display of exuberance is to be examined then it just further criminalizes black culture. We recently got a sense of how far wrong this can go when Michelle and Barack Obama tapped fists and white nationalists tried to discern a sinister meaning behind it.
I'm not sure if I agree with comparing a fist bump (which is nothing new & cross racial) to some of the athletes that embrace street culture from an aesthetic perspective. Many people from various racial strata thought that what Obama and his wife engaged in was "cute"...certain political forces were trying to read into that. Another difference is that some of these athletes ARE engaged in criminal activities or have had brushes with the law whereas Obama & his wife are not Muslim extremists-as much the media would like to make the pseudo connection.
It is exactly the same thing. The fist tap, high five, hand slap, etc. have their origins in what you derisively call street culture. Same for words like dis and bling. Your too young but many ultra-conservatives remember the Black Power era and its symbols and that's why they reacted so negatively to the Obamas. We also got a sense of the nation's pervasive cultural ignorance during the last summer Olympics when black track athletes came under fire for supposedly desecrating the flag. Then later that summer Tommy Hilfiger appropriated the gesture by affixing the flag to his clothes and we had all kinds of copycats. Only the most vertiginous reasoning could conclude differently. The NFL has a right and duty to protect its image and investment and to regulate players' behavior but this is a crude and ineffective measure.
Sub, we can agree to disagree but I think your argument or the connection that you are attempting to make is spurious at best. On this blog, of which you are keenly aware, we are trying to get away from PC excuses for issues that are actually occurring in real time-some of these athletes ARE getting into trouble, have skirmishes with the law or have died by violent means. Many of the rappers that unabashedly have gang affiliations run in the same circles as these athletes. I sincerely doubt that these officials are going to be looking at Shaquille O’Neal any closer if he chooses to give an Omega sign. Obama’s background and demeanor win out over the questioning of a fist bump which I have seen MANY races engage in. A number of these athletes have brought street mores and aesthetics into their workplace and I just wouldn’t be shocked that with the known street “ish” that we have seen displayed for public scrutiny previously, why stop short of gang signs in this matter. We have to stop making excuses or rather FINDING excuses for a subculture that has proven itself to be permeating in facets of life that otherwise should not tolerate such behavior. Sub, is it a stretch that players that HAVE had dalliances with street MIGHT have gang connections? Gangs are in the military, so why not professional sports? Check out the link below:
http://www.stripes.com/article.a...05&
archive=true
I have to agree with Submariner on this one, I mentioned this briefly on one of your other posts. This is similar to young black males that go around sagging today very very few are aware that this originated from prison culture and the true meaning behind it (otherwise I don’t think they would be so quick to engage in wearing their pants around their ankles). This can be applied to the hand signals that people randomly through up when they get a bit “crunk” (is that word still in use), the signals may have originated with some nefarious meaning but over time they dim and regular nongang affiliated people start using them because they appear cool. When this happens gang people will create new signals to replace the old ones.
Again folks, no one wants to answer the possibility that these athletes MIGHT be passing gang signals. After countless displays of street and aberrant behavior why are we falling short that the gang signs might be the real deal. I just can’t put some of our young Black athletes in “victim” class just yet because how many times has the collective been disappointed with athletes that have defecated on their careers. We heard of girlfriends being murdered, arrests, drug possession (and not the performance enhancing kind), gun possession……I could go on. We’re not talking about indiscriminate profiling here…..unless one fits the profile. But we can agree to disagree……until a gang sign situation is confirmed….I will set my watch to this….and I’ll await your comments when the moment comes…and it will. Oh and in regards to the sagging pants-prison connection, I’m not sure if the youths that insist on wearing this garb do NOT know where the style originates but I DO know that in many ghetto cultures/environments, going to jail is a badge of honor and in some respects does not possess a negative connotation amongst these groups-street cred means EVERYTHING, so in bizzaro like fashion-what’s bad is good and vice versa…….it’s a different world folks and it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
And there you have it ladies and gentlemen. Nowhere did Jazzy or myself mention that black people, in general, or black athletes, in particular, are "victims." Nowhere did we offer "PC excuses."
We did describe culture as a fluid construct that can change quite profoundly from its origins such that an expression for Black Power could thirty years later be used by potentially the first black POTUS and yet still be seen by some whites as threat to the existing order.
We did say that people and expressions are not fixed at conception. If it were otherwise then Malcolm X and Martin King would not be featured on United States postage stamps. Muhammad Ali would not be considered the greatest athlete of the last century.
Rap and breakdancing have their origins intimately tied to the Jamaican 'posses'(i.e. gangs) and 'crews'(i.e. gangs) of urban New York. But by adhering to Dburt's standard, hip hop would be eschewed in its entirety because of this connection to street life.
Certainly illegal and harmful gang activities have no place in public life. However, these should be eliminated not by targeting symbols but substance.
I too agree with you Submariner. This is just another example of Desmond "stretching" the story, showing us how out of touch he is, and blindly going along with what some White folks think because it MUST be right. If Desmond would come out of the cave he hides in, he would find that this "hand sign" phenomenom seems to be very popular right now, and as someone alluded to, it's cool. All types of folks, men and women as a matter of fact are throwing up some type of signs, hell, if you watch the program Americas Best Dance Crew, each crew seems to have a sign that they display to signify their dance group. I guess Desmond will tell us that these are dancing gangs and we better worry, right?
Get your head out the sand Desmond, you really are clueless.
It's no wonder that this so called "blog" is still barren like a wasteland.
First of all "unbannable" you truly are very "bannable"....you are tolerated on a whim so that others can see that you have no interest in a respectful dialog. In your world, all Blacks are sheep and no one can question or have divergent views. I have seen how you conduct yourself in other blogs and you are CONSISTENTLY put into the position of being ousted. So again, your inability to have conversation is a shame. I do not mind someone disagreeing with our views but the disrespect is unnecessary and bespeaks of emotionalism. My opinion once again is that we are at a time when we have players that are adhering to certain subcultural mores. If upon further investigation that gang signs or gang references are discovered, I really will not be shocked. We have seen hip hop artists ingratiate themselves to a gang aesthetic-and some are outright members. Some of these athletes come from the same "hoods"...is it a "stretch" that some may have gang affiliations? Let's wait and see....
And why do you insist on visiting this "wasteland"....you make no sense in this regard "komrade" or "unbannable"...why visit and try to disrupt a blog that no one allegedly visits? You will NOT throw your ire to the truly racist sites so what's up with that? Why don't you bring some fire to:
http://www.amren.com
But you will not...it's easier to come here....I'm allegedly the sellout and yet I have brought fire to those guys for their racist views.....you will not...that, again makes no sense.
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