The Sci Fi Catholic Yak Module
You're review was good, but I have a couple of minor quibbles. First, some exposition on the supporting cast would have been nice (I've heard Gwenyth Paltrow's acting was perticularly good in her portrayal of Pepper Potts). Also, it is important when writing a review to concentrate on the specific subject at hand; while I always find your tangents into other (mostly relevant) subjects intriguing, it can be be mildly irritating. I do not blame you for re-stating what so many other reviewers have mentioned. I've always thought that very good or very bad movies make people repeat themselves over and over. 
All in all, a good job, I'll definitely see it at the end of the month for my birthday.
Keep in mind that Favreau has already made plans for a trilogy, so if this franchise is anything like Spiderman, the action will be moved up a couple levels on the "awesomeness" scale in the sequel.
Also, it is important when writing a review to concentrate on the specific subject at hand; while I always find your tangents into other (mostly relevant) subjects intriguing, it can be be mildly irritating.
Well, that's one of our gimmicks, I'm afraid.
OTOH, I like tangents (and parentheses (and parentheses within parenthesis)). Good review - it increases my tendency to eventually see the movie, though definitely without my 9 yo son!
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Keep in mind that Favreau has already made plans for a trilogy...
After that little post-credits scene, I demand a trilogy!
Excellent work on that review, particularly the analysis of Stark's rather curious monomania regarding his technology.
I do have one minor quibble though. You described the Iron Monger suit as a "mecha", when it (and the Iron Man suit, naturally) would be more accurately descibed as powered armour. 
I have to disagree a bit about his narcissism--it seems to me to be an understandable, if not entirely rational, response to the betrayal of his person and his profession. I think he doesn't know who to trust, so he decides not to for a while--with the big exception of Ms. Potts (done very well, I thought). And there it's clear that he's not able to tidily sort out love, loyalty, and trust. Particularly in a personality undergoing a change he hardly has the moral vocabulary to understand, self-protection doesn't seem like narcissism to me.
I was really stuck that after the doctor dies for him, he doesn't lie to anyone. He doesn't know who to trust, but he doesn't want to lie, which is a serious conundrum. That's how I read the end:"I am Iron Man" wasn't showboating, but really wanting to tell the truth even when doing so would complicate his life a lot.
In the Catholic tradition, especially among the Benedictines and Carmelites, honesty is essential to self-knowledge: seeing ourselves as God sees us results in humility and proper self-love in that he loves us, and we don't get to contradict his will in loving us but should will what he wills. For the Benedictines, see esp. Bernard of Clairvaux's "On Loving God".
I do have one minor quibble though. You described the Iron Monger suit as a "mecha", when it (and the Iron Man suit, naturally) would be more accurately descibed as powered armour.
I suppose I better look up this distinction. I will say, though: both of them are exoskeletons that copy the movements of the wearer and give added strength. Iron Monger's, in particular, should be large enough to be considered a mech. It's about the size of the landmates in Appleseed, and those are considered mechs, right?
it increases my tendency to eventually see the movie, though definitely without my 9 yo son!
Ah, I feel bad for the little tike, but I think it would be a good idea for you to see it first before deciding if you want to take him to see it.
have to disagree a bit about his narcissism.
Some excellent insights there, Xena. I agree mostly with what you say, but am still inclined to think Stark wasn't really over himself, and as for that final scene, I see it as both an eagerness for honesty and showboating, but mostly the former. Perhaps I'm reading too much in, or perhaps I'm trying too hard to defend my point of view.
And as an added note, I sincerely hope that the success of this film may mean more mecha and powered armor movies in the future. In particular, let's see a movie adaptation of Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future.
I suppose I better look up this distinction. I will say, though: both of them are exoskeletons that copy the movements of the wearer and give added strength. Iron Monger's, in particular, should be large enough to be considered a mech. It's about the size of the landmates in Appleseed, and those are considered mechs, right?
No idea. I rarely watch anime in general and you couldn't pay me to view anything by Shirow.
As far as definitions go though, there's a lot of confusion (and a fair bit of overlap) but in general, I guess you could say that powered armour is a mechanized suit that you wear. It's generally human-sized but it should be kept in mind that the very original examples, those of the Mobile Infantry in Starship Troopers are between eight and nine feet tall, copy the movements of the wearer and give added strength, so I would say that the Iron Monger suit definitely falls into that category.
As far as "mech" and "mecha" though, I think they're generally defined so that a mech is essentially a walking tank (as in Battletech or Mechwarrior) with fixed weapons whereas a mecha is essentially a cross between a fighter aircraft (in terms of the pilot's position) and a building-sized suit of powered armour that may or may not be highly anthropomorphic (as in the various Gundam series). Giant-sized rifles, handguns and/or swords are a must.
In particular, let's see a movie adaptation of Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future.
Yes, but not before a faithful adaptation of Heinlein's Starship Troopers, hopefully.
Okay, I'll bite: who the heck is "Captain Power and and the Soldiers of the Future?" sounds eerily like the extremely PC "Captain Planet and the Planeteers".
I wouldn't mind seing a live action adaptation of Code Geass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Geass or Macross Frontier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Mac...across_frontier easily the two best "mecha" animes currently airing.
An early (and very violent) example of CGI in live-action television, tying in to a Mattel toy line that featured vehicles and action figures that would interact with what was happening on the TV screen.
Here's the Wiki article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap...i/
Captain_Power
By the way, while we're on the topic, has anyone seen the photos they've released of the upcoming G.I. Joe movie? Apparently it'll be featuring powered armour as well.
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/05...of-gi-joe-lame/
Yes, but not before a faithful adaptation of Heinlein's Starship Troopers, hopefully.
You really want to see a movie that's two hours of lecture punctuated by occasional action sequences?
And on the subject of the distinction between mecha and powered suits, I'm going to posit this, since these are made-up definitions anyway:
I'm going to say a powered suit is an exoskeleton that fits reasonably close to the body, such as the suits in Iron Man or Captain Power.
A larger robot, whether it copies the pilot's movemements or the pilot operates it with controls, is a mech. As far as I'm concerned, mech and mecha are synonyms. Thanks to Snuffles (urgh), I've gotten the impression that large robots, from about nine feet to several stories tall, that copy a pilots movements, are thought of as mechs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sure I care. Also, I seem to think powered armor is a type of exoskeleton, but I'm not sure at what point a mech gets large enough to no longer be considered an exoskeleton, and once again, I don't think I care.
On that basis, I'm inclined to think of Iron Man's armor as a powered suit and Iron Monger's beefed up version as a mech. Being a rather small mech, it may be kind of halfway between powered armor and mech, so if you want to think of it as powered armor while I think of it as a mech, go right ahead.
You really want to see a movie that's two hours of lecture punctuated by occasional action sequences?
Absolutely
As far as I'm concerned, mech and mecha are synonyms.
I think it makes more sense to dinstinguish between the two. Mechs generally look and act like you'd expect a large, walking fighting machine to, whereas mecha tend to simply act like humans in powered armour trashing 1/18th scale model cities (a fact made all the more evident by the existence of Gundam costumes for the devoted fan).
For easy visual distinction:
Mech:
http://
ppc.warhawkenterprises.co...berwolfmkii.gif
Mecha:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/
wiki...acteristics.jpg
Thanks to Snuffles (urgh), I've gotten the impression that large robots, from about nine feet to several stories tall, that copy a pilots movements, are thought of as mechs.
If a "robot" has a pilot, I think it's probably fair to say that it is not, in fact, a robot after all.
If a "robot" has a pilot, I think it's probably fair to say that it is not, in fact, a robot after all.
Yeah, but they still seem to call 'em giant robots, so go figure.
Also, it's been a while, but I seem to remember the mechs in BattleTech including both tank-like mechs and also more anthropomorphic forms. I think they gave us the term, so I guess anything they call a mech is a mech. Mecha is a Japanese word borrowed from English and shortened, and usually, at least when I've seen it, refers to the sub-genre of anime and manga usually featuring piloted "giant robots," which I'm inclined to call mechs, but which do seem to be generally anthropomorphic, so I guess you can go ahead and make the distinction if you want, but I might add that some Amerimanga go ahead and use mech to refer to their manga-influenced piloted robots, so I'm inclined to think there's no clear boundary between the two.
You know what? I give up. I don't really care what you call 'em. I'm a geek, but not geeky enough to spend a lot of time arguing definitions of words like mech.
I followed Templar's link, and I think the show is more like a Power Rangers kind of show then Captain Planet. I think calling something "power armour" or a "mecha" is purely a matter of scale and function/design. Look at it this way: Stark (as far as I know), could put put his armour on piece by piece with assistance, it is far more streamlined and much more maneuverable than the far larger and powerful machines which are basically "piloted" as apposed to "worn". The two best anime comparisons I could think off the top of my head are Bubblegum Crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Bub...ubblegum_Crisis and Escaflowne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escaflowne
Now both suits have the same basic interface i.e. they both function as extensions of the pilots' bodies but Escaflowne is clearly a mecha while the Knight Sabers "powersuits" are not. I for one agree with our blogmaster and do not think that this debate really could get anywhere.
You know what? I give up. I don't really care what you call 'em. I'm a geek, but not geeky enough to spend a lot of time arguing definitions of words like mech.
Hallelujah, I'm a nerd.
I followed Templar's link, and I think the show is more like a Power Rangers kind of show then Captain Planet.
I don't think "Power Rangers" is really the best comparison...
I think calling something "power armour" or a "mecha" is purely a matter of scale and function/design.
Oh, I wouldn't say that. Another way of looking at it is the matter of plausibility versus implausibility. Powered armour has some real potential for future military use (hence its prominent role in Western sci-fi writing) where mecha will never be as practical or useful as a simple battle tank, and essentially serve as glorified avatars of the pilots (hence their prominent role in Japanese media).
D.G.- good to know we've found a limit to your geekitude....And I still have Ozzy's "Iron Man" in my head a lot; yes, all the words.
Ozzy ROCKS!!
(Just had to get that in after my weekend silent retreat
Had a great time Xena..I always come out of retreat relaxed and refreshed...just to get shoved back into reality from the first jerk who cuts me off in traffic. Cranked the Van Halen all the way home
Hoping to catch the flick this weekend..
Hi, Sara! Glad to hear you had a good retreat! You must have prayed for me a little, too, because "Iron Man" is the first movie I've seen in the theatre in years--great to have a date with my husband.
Funny how many POD Catholics with a contemplative bent listen(ed) to Ozzy, Led Zep, etc. I'm afraid I've scandalized a few people, esp. when I tell them it was never something I needed to repent. For a little while I had to stop listening to anything while some intense stuff was going on in my prayer life, but that wasn't really specific to the music. I did give away a R.J. DIO t-shirt ("Dream Evil" tour) because it really rattled an evangelical acquaintance who had to struggle with anti-Catholic bias & I didn't want to make it harder for her.
And I'm pretty happy with the trend of having hard rock soundtracks for sci-fi movies.
Powered armour has some real potential...where mecha will never be as practical or useful as a simple battle tank....
Templar has a really good point here, which is why I'm more than happy to accept the distinction beteween powered armor and mechs, though I'm still unwilling to distinguish mechs and mecha, even though the words (I think) have different origins. A multi-ton machine that walks on two legs has a stupid design. All you have to do is trip it and it's permanently disabled. I'm always a little flabberghasted by sf shows or games that treat two-legged walking tanks as some kind of ultimate superweapon when they would clearly be vulnerable to more practical and maneuverable armed vehicles.
That being said, mechs are to me a lot like airships: impractical, but cool anyway.
That being said, mechs are to me a lot like airships: impractical, but cool anyway.
Yeah, pretty much.
By the way, speaking of cool-but-impractical mechness, have you ever seen the film Robo Jox, by any chance?
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