The Sci Fi Catholic Yak Module
Grows up, huh? I have mixed feelings about that.
But maybe you can address the faith issue? Does Spielberg bring that up again? Because in all 3 movies there's a clear picture of what Dr. Jones has faith in (done best with throwing his gun in the suitcase, "you know what a cautious fellow I am, Marcus") and all of them are adequate to keep him alive, but inadequate to explain his encounters with supernatural powers or evaluate his own actions.
But maybe the significance of the aliens is that it switches the question from the supernatural to the merely unknown?
That may perhaps be why some people are bothered by the new movie. It lacks the religious content of the previous three, and so that sense of Indy's inadequancy in the face of the numinous is lost.
But you forget the context of the dialogue in that scene:
Marcus Brody is worried that Indy is in over his head again, and what finding the Grail might mean in regards to its obvious religious significance. But Indy just laughs derisively and makes an off-hand comment about "talking about the Boogeyman". Last Crudade shows Indy's father being strict and serious about his Christian faith. However,the movie gives one the sense that Indy survived the trials because of faith in his father's research and not the grace of Christ.
Spoiler Alert
The aliens didn't bother me too much until they gave it skin. Cool crystal skeletons of inter-dimensional beings that have semi-magical properties can be interpreted in many ways. Aliens, demigods, angels or demons &c. Once they wrapped skin around it and showed us the ship it was just another kind of lame Hollywood alien. Not the worst things ever, but nothing spectacular, and even a bit yawn worthy.
I agree that this is the move were we actually see Henry Jones, Jr. grow up. This was a good thing, and I'm glad the realization that there was a Henry Jones, III made him act a bit more like Henry Jones, Sr. I especially enjoyed the short exchange between Stanforth and Oxley about how much happiness is lost in waiting, which I took to mean "in not growing up and in continuing to womanize when you should be settling down." As for Indy's faith, he believed his father was still alive in some way, and the wedding certainly seemed Christian to me. Maybe not much, but at least it wasn't nothing.
But you forget the context of the dialogue in that scene...
You're getting a couple of scenes mixed up. "You know what a cautious man I am" is from Raider, I believe. The conversation between Marcus and Indy in Crusade is of a more spiritual nature, in which Marcus says something about the holy inside all of us or some such. In Raiders he says little on that score besides, "It's like nothing you've gone after before."
Last Crudade shows Indy's father being strict and serious about his Christian faith.
Really? Is that why he was sleeping around?
However,the movie gives one the sense that Indy survived the trials because of faith in his father's research and not the grace of Christ.
Yes and no, depending on how you want to view it. His father's exact religious views are ambiguous, though if you get the copy of the grail diary that accompanies the video game adaptation, you'll read about him having religious visions and such.
Indy is clearly not a religious man, but all four movies end with a sense that the universe is larger and more mysterious than his narrow worldview allows. Sure, Indy gets through the booby traps in Crusade because of his smarts, but throughout the scene, Sean Connery is repeating "penitent" over and over and saying things like, "You must believe, boy." It's open to some interpretation, but I honestly don't think these movies can survive a thoughtful exploration. That's asking too much of them.
The major difference between the fourth film and the earlier three is that the first three are more about the spiritual universe and the final movie is more of a science fiction multiverse kind of thing.
agree that this is the move were we actually see Henry Jones, Jr. grow up.
Brendon, all of what you say there reflects what I saw. Personally, though, I was happier with the alien-with-skin than with the skeletons. We had dead aliens in a number of crash sites, but then we've got these skeletons, and I'm saying, "But wait, aren't they dead?"
Still possible spoilers
Brendon, all of what you say there reflects what I saw. Personally, though, I was happier with the alien-with-skin than with the skeletons.
I guess I liked the skeletons better because they left whether or not they were alien skeletons ambiguous. I don't remember getting a clear look at the contents of the sarcophagus, so whether or not it contained an actual alien or rather some kind of strange totem to the gods made with flesh and crystal was left more open to interpretation. Until the alien got its skin back, opened the portal and launched its ship, the crystal skull could have been a mystical artifact shaped in honor of the gods rather than an alien body part.
Thinking about it though, perhaps aliens works better than God or gods given the time frame. Nazi ideology included a mishmash of paganism, so it makes sense for them to search out mystical and religious artifacts that are fabled to hold immense power. In fact, I believe that it's a historical fact--or at least not completely unreasonable historical speculation--that they tried to do just that.
Communist ideology, on the other hand, is founded upon philosophical materialism. It makes much more sense for Communists to chase after psychic powers, lost technology, and aliens artifacts than it does for them to chase artifacts of religious significance. So perhaps the move from the more fantasy oriented to the more SF oriented is in keeping with the move from fighting Nazis to fighting Communists.
In fact, I believe that it's a historical fact--or at least not completely unreasonable historical speculation--that they tried to do just that.
I believe I have read that the Nazis' supposed hunt for mystical stuff is purely legendary, but I don't claim any real knowledge of the subject.
Communist ideology, on the other hand, is founded upon philosophical materialism.
Comment didn't complete--I meant to say that the video game Infernal Machine does a better job of dealing with this than does the Crystal Skull movie. In the game, the main villain gets pressure from his government because they believe he's doing something religious in trying to reconstruct the Tower of Babel, when really he's trying to open a gateway to a parallel universe.
Deej--Regarding your new reading..
Redemptionis is good stuff, although not a casual read....it's something where you may read a paragraph or so and chew and meditate on it for awhile, then pick it up again..if you can finish it in a week you are reading it farrrr too fast.
Enjoy..there is much fruit for meditation there, especially after celebrating Corpus Christi today..
Yeah, I'm just about finished with it. The speed doesn't concern me too much.
Snuffles and I are trying something new: we're offering quick first impressions of our reading and watching material in the sidebar.
Well, I kind of expected the movie to be full of impossible action sequences, so I guess the implausibility of certain scenes didn't hit me until (much) later. Anyway, on the whole I enjoyed it, spacemen and all. (It seems to me Steven Spielberg has gotten to a point where he can't help but add a scifi twist to his movies!) And I thought it was nice that Indy and Marion got married (finally!) in church.
I believe I have read that the Nazis' supposed hunt for mystical stuff is purely legendary, but I don't claim any real knowledge of the subject.
I was tired when I wrote my last comment, so I see that I perhaps confused my meaning by overstating the case. I meant not so much that the Nazis really hunted for the Ark, the Grail, or the Spear of Destiny. Rather, I meant that Nazism seems to share certain philosophical presuppositions with some strains of occult thought. Nazi ideology and Hitler himself seem to have been influenced by Germanic paganism, gnosticism and theosophy. Which isn't to say that it was something magical and mystical--one can find quotes from Hitler in which he calls this kind of thing laughable--but rather to say that there is a philosophical base from which to spin tales of supernatural intrigue and horror within the context of Nazism.
Anyway, I thought you and Lucky wrote a very good review. I would add that insofar as Lucky's view of Marion is concerned, I interpreted the difference in her reaction between this movie and Raiders to be evidence that she had already matured through her experience as wife and mother. She realized that Indy had risked danger to help her and Oxley, rather than come to her because he needed something her father found, as he did in Raiders. I think she was willing to give him another chance because she saw how he began to change when he realized that he was a father and began to regret not being there for his son's formative years.
P.S. Suffles' view on Genshiken mirrors my own. It was fun and interesting, but would have been vastly improved by focusing less on hentai games and doujinshi. Welcome to the N.H.K., while being a much more depressing and nihilistic work, does a much better job at demonstrating the problems with such a... I suppose "degenerate" would be the best term... obsession.
Haven't seen it yet. The plot sounds like a bit of a muddled mess, but that isn't surprising, considering that David Koepp is listed as the principal screenwriter. I've held something of a grudge against him ever since he took The Shadow, one of my favorite pulp and old-time radio heroes and turned out a thoroughly tepid movie version back in '94.If I go see it, I'll just regard it as a chance to get out of the house for awhile and keep my expectations low.
I stand in humble submission to our blogmaster's corrections. I had forgotten that there were two seperate similar scenes between Marcus and Indy. May I point out one thing though: Henry Jones Sr. slaps his son in the face and warns "that's for blasphemy" when Indy says the Lord's name in vain; he then reminds his son of the spiritual/moral significance of their mission. It is because of him that Indy is saved from the temptation of the Grail when the temple is about to collapse. Yes he slept with the crazy blond femme fatale, but he realizes his mistake. True that it does make him seem quite hypocritical when he get on his moral high horse, but in the end he demonstrates a guiding wisdom that saves his son's life several times throughout the movie.
Welcome to the N.H.K., while being a much more depressing and nihilistic work...
I haven't read that one, but I may have to now. Looking at the description, though, I dunno...this may sound funny coming from a dragon who likes his anime and manga, but I absolutely despise panty shots.
Brendon,
I agree with your comments about "Welcome to the NHK". Although I didn't like with the main heroine's anger towards God, I felt it was an understandable reaction for the character given her abusive background.
I've run into a few other anime that has negative comments about religion in general, such as in Black Lagoon,http://www.amazon.ca/Black-Lagoon-Vol-rei-
Hiroe/dp/142151382X/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&
qid=1211822735&sr=8-1 a very dark action/adventure manga/anime where many of the characters are outspokenly atheists. This is partially because many of the characters have a Sartrean existentialist outlook.
Yes, you read that right: an action manga where the characters wax philisophical. First time for everything.
I like the sidebar brief commentaries.. nice touch...
I'm off to see Indy now..rainy miserable days like today are PERFECT to get lost in a movie..
Snuffles,
To be honest, I'm not sure that I would recommend Welcome to the N.H.K. In many ways its characters are a lot worse in their obsessions than anyone in Genshiken. It's just that it doesn't seem to play this up as a normal but awkward and misunderstood part of life as Genshiken does. Rather, it is shown to be related to the characters' immaturity and degeneracy. Which certainly strikes me as a lot more true to life.
Thomas,
I didn't see your comment until after I posted my reply to Snuffles, but I agree with your take on Misaki. To be honest, such themes tend to make me a bit uncomfortable, but if they are done well they can be interesting and give one some perspective on how faith is sometimes viewed by outsiders.
Still, I must admit that my favorite mangas are usually shounen titles aimed at early teens. While they can--and too often do--get lost in endless cycles of battle, power-up, repeat, I always appreciate themes on the importance of friendship and doing your best. Besides, I've noticed that in many such titles, while the hero is never able to come right out and tell the girl he likes how he feels, he will often tell her that he "will protect her with his life" or something similar. This is usually accompanied by visual tropes that show she knows exactly what he really means, e.g. a blush, heart beating sound effects &c. It certainly seems to be an example of "Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends." It's always interesting to see unexpected examples of a truth found at the heart of the world.
While they can--and too often do--get lost in endless cycles of battle, power-up, repeat...
You forgot smack-talk. The cycle s smack-talk, battle, power-up, repeat.
I had a ROCKIN good time at the Indy movie 
Yeah..the alien part was a bit cheezy..but I LOVE a good motorcycle chase
Other than the couple next to me with the running commentary who I had to tell to shut the *** up more than once..but that is the risk you take going to the theatre...at least I didn't have the obnoxious kid behind me kicking the seat or pulling my hair..
I DID think that Shia was a bit forced in his role..he just didn't seem to be "comfortable" in it, or perhaps not a good fit... When River Phoenix played the young Indy part (I forget which Indy movie he played an opening cameo) he really got into it, so I can't really say if it's maybe because he's a young and upcoming actor or what. The young Marlon Brando look was just not believable either.. He IS a cutie pie though, and does have alot of promise.. I guess the Brat Pack of the 80's launched a bunch of talent at that time that raised the bar for young actors that you really just don't see today..
But still 5 stars...I'd definitely see it again
When River Phoenix played the young Indy part (I forget which Indy movie he played an opening cameo)
I believe it was Last Crusade.
I believe it was Last Crusade.
Yes indeed. And Sean Patrick Flannery took over the part for the TV specials.
I just saw the movie last night. I quite liked it. My only two objections were first, that in the warehouse scene, it was implied that the Ark of the Covenant was in the wrong state -- everyone knows it's in the DC area, about four miles from my present location.
Second, and spoilerishly, in the final scene, the phrase "husband and wife" is uttered, and it's anachronistic.
Good catch, Peter. I didn't notice that.
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