David:

I think that this quote comes from S. D. Gordon's "Quiet Talks about Jesus." If not, it is much in line with Gordon's teaching in that book.

" We quoted S. D. Gordon (Quiet Talks About Jesus, p. 114) to the effect that the crucifixion of Jesus was not in God's plan of salvation, but rather that it was "conceived somewhere else," and then "yielded to by God." This, we have said, is the only logical conclusion to be drawn from dispensational teachings. Gordon went on to say (p. 11: "There is no cross in God's plan of atonement." This ties in logically with Scofield's teaching concerning the "new message of Jesus." The first message, they would say, had no cross in it. This the Bible-believing Christian must brand as heresy of the worst sort. The New Testament teaches that the cross was foretold, and that it was foreordained before the foundation of the world. Our Lord, in predicting his death on the cross. said: For this cause came I into the world."

(Quoted from: www.geocities.com/Heartland/9170/COX1-7.HTM)

carmich@bigfoot.com
Henry IX | 09.24.03 - 10:46 am | #

I was all set to comment on yesterdays post but now that will have to wait. As of right now,I hold a dispensationalist view, except for the part of Jesus offering the Jews the Kingdom and them rejecting it,because that would be foreknowledge, is that also what you are saying? But the verse that I think really keeps me here is Isaiah 65:20, I just cannot see that verse being spiritual and not literal.
Bob | 09.24.03 - 11:13 am | #

Bob,

But why does it keep you in the dispensationalist camp? It could easily be a description of the millennium as viewed, for example, by the historic premillennialists.
David Heddle | Homepage | 09.24.03 - 1:56 pm | #

Everybody si non-literal on Revelation, except for a few people who think there is a literal sxeven headed dragon in outer space, or that the bible predicts that some animal (=beast) will rule the land.
pduggie | Homepage | 09.25.03 - 1:22 pm | #

David,
The fact that the jews rejected Jesus has nothing to do with whether Jesus would have been crucified.
Jesus had to be crucified regardless. The denial of the jews has to do with who would be Gods "light" in the world. Since the jews of the flesh denied Jesus, the Jews of the spirit are now Gods chief messenger.
If the Jews had accepted Jesus, Satan would have still managed to orchestrate Jesus's crucifiction, but the jews would have been the ones proclaiming salvation throught he blood of christ to the world.
John | 09.26.03 - 10:14 am | #

John, I understand your explantion. However, even from a dispensationist perspective, I don't think Satan "orchestrated" the crucifixion. It was part of God's sovereign plan from the beginning. At most, Satan was a pawn.
David Heddle | Homepage | 09.26.03 - 11:33 am | #