Indeed - a lot of truth!!! You don't go to church for what you can get out of it, but for what you can put into it. That's what has motivated us to start helping out at a church with hardly any members and no minister. Membership implies responsibility. If somebody isn't prepared to be a member, they can be welcomed, but they don't get a say unless they are prepared to commit themselves to the community. And people should only leave church for one of two reasons - their work there is finished, or they are kicked out ... discuss!!!
Incidentally, there's a Welsh version of that joke. The man discovered on a desert island is a Welshman. He gives the tour of the island, and points to the two chapels. "That's the chapel that I go to," he says, "... and that's the chapel that I don't go to."
I love the first part of your post, amen, but is it possible that "adult" classes are actually pointed at people that are married and have kids, "special needs thirty and forty-somethings in the church"?
That is my experience in most of the churches I have been a part of. Since the majority of the people fit in the above demographic, things tend to somehow get related to that group of people.
A pastor doing a decent job at exegesis should have sermons that apply to the Christian. Those that "feel" the message doesn't speak to them personally aren't listening.
Sadly there is no shame today in bouncing from church to church for any reason you want. Churches are so eager to get numbers, they have no interest in discouraging such practices. Its unfortunate the modern church doesn't understand what it is. It looks really bad to those looking on.
I think it can be a mistake to aim sermons and studies at families, as well. My favorite thing about the church body is the dynamic of all the different people, from all different backgrounds, at all different places in their walks coming together for the same purpose: to know God and glorify Him.
Having age or family-specific messages can be helpful to an extent, but it's important to realize that we learn from each other. As a young, single person I have a perspective that is valuable to toddlers, other singles, married folks, the elderly... and each person has a perspective that is valuable to me, as well. So it goes for all of us, particularly as believers. A balance is needed so we don't isolate ourselves or our brethren.
I don't think specific groups need to be eradicated, though. Just balanced with an interactive community. There is definite value in communing with a group that relates to where you are at the same time. But yes, balance it with people who've been there and grown through it, and who haven't been there yet, but may eventually.
You don't go to church for what you can get out of it, but for what you can put into it.
I have to differ with you on this (in a way). We can't go to church "for what we put into it", because we have nothing that we can put into it. We go to church because it is there that we receive forgiveness from God through Word and Sacrament. We go precisely "for what we get out of it", and what we get out of it is forgiveness.
God is the only one who can put anything into it. We can't.
That said, I agree that "church shopping" is detestable. Every church that is orthodox in teaching and practice has exactly the same thing on offer: the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If your church has that, why would you go shopping for anything else?
I know where you are coming from, but I disagree profoundly. We go to the cross unable to put anything into it, only able to accept what God can give. We go to church to build one another up and encourage one another - check the epistles - your ecclesiology is "unreformed"!
your ecclesiology is "unreformed"
Hardly surprising, since I am a confessional Lutheran. "Unreformed" and happy to be that way.
But what about the "Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia, Sola Christa, Sola Fide" of the reformers (including Luther!) - as distinct from the "church" that was added by catholicism?
(Sorry Dave Heddle - kick me off if you want to).
I feel, nobody in this world can stay for long in a position that they don't deserve. The greed in them makes them blame God for it.
But what about the "Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia, Sola Christa, Sola Fide"
What about them? There's no conflict between the Solas and the role of the Church in the economy of salvation. Every Sola affirms something and excludes something: Faith alone (not works); grace alone (not human merit); Scripture alone (not human reason and human teaching); etc. But none of them excludes the Church, the pillar and bulwark of the Truth.
The Church was not "added by catholicism", it was founded by Jesus Christ. It is central to His plan of salvation. There could be no "Scripture Alone" if the Church had not preserved and handed down the Scriptures to us; there could be no "Faith Alone" had she not proclaimed the Gospel; there could be no "Grace Alone" if she did not convey grace to us in the preaching of the Word and in her sacraments.
If you cut out the Church as if it were a "catholic" accretion, and treated it as an optional "extra", you have removed an essential part of the Gospel. As the Lutheran Confessions say, "the holy Church continues forever".
Great points! We used to get caught up in the act of switching churches and I can humbly say with certainty that some spiritual maturity has kept us in one place for over five years and growing stronger daily. The old adage that you get out of something what you put into it is apt in our worship context as well. Great blog! I'll visit again.
Nice blog. Keep it up ...
Hi there
Apologies for posting an off topic question here.
I am invitation your views on ABORTION in order to present a case to help those in the developing world.
I personally see abortion as a NECESSARY EVIL and that unwanted pregnancy is not only a personal problem and it is also a very real problem for the society at large.
Do you think it is right to burden say a 15 years old school-going girl with a new life when she is yet to have any economic mean to sustain herself and obviously, most girls of her age are not mentally ready for a family life. Furthermore, is it fair to rob her of her career, aspiration, dream etc., in the name of preserving a life that is yet to be fully developed?
If you have an opinion, please email it to me at divinetalk@gmail.com or if you wish, you may post your comment here: Your Onion Counts!
Also, what do you think of the recent “Pharmacists Refused Contraceptive Prescriptions”.
Do you think Pharmacists have the rights to Play God?
Jumping around from church to church has never interested me! I want to be planted where I can be a blessing to others. I've been at my present church for 19 years,and have seen attendance fluctuate and decline. People have left for all reasons -"God moved me", don't like the people, people aren't friendly, etc. But, I've never seen any of that. Sure, there are going to be people that don't adhere to 'our' perceptions of what makes a good member. But, that's no reason to leave a church, if the pastor is feeding his flock the unadulterated Word of God. Thank goodness, mine does!
what if a church introduces homosexuality as "OK"? People disagree at times and therefore its not just about shopping to feel comfortable, there's legitimate reasons for leaving a church.
If a church as a body denies the gospel (or endorses something that is against the gospel) then it has ceased to be a church. One might still seek to work within it, to reform it - however, if in those circumstances one moves on, it is not "leaving a church" in the same way. However, the basis of this has to be God's word.
Never heard that joke before. But I wouldn't call it a joke; it's a real-life situation.
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