Yikes!
SteveK | 07.24.07 - 4:25 pm | #

Very nice. I didn't know Mormons taught that Jesus was married in Cana.

They left out the update that God the Father is the perfection of Adam living on/near planet Kolob.

And that men can be a god and get a planet full of wives. Not sure what's in it for women...
nedbrek | Homepage | 07.25.07 - 7:26 am | #

Oh, David, stick to physics.

Your Bible has about the same language in it -- do you claim that all Christians believe in "many Gods?" In fact, the LDS statement on the Trinity is almost word for word the same as the Southern Baptist Convention. I guess that means that the SBC is polytheistic, too, right? I'll leave it to you to break it to them, but I look forward to your post where you do a Baptist version of the Nicene Creed -- the first part, of course, is already done for you in this one.

Jesus would start a war of Christians bashing other Christians, right?
Ed Darrell | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 11:52 pm | #

How in the world is the LDS view of the Trinity even remotely similiar to the Baptists? The Baptist Faith and Message makes references to things like "triune God", "only one God", etc. The LDS explicitly deny the existence of the Trinity.
Matt | 08.08.07 - 12:52 am | #

(I'm hoping it's not rude for me to butt in. When I wrote that post originally, I had no idea everyone was going to have so much fun with it.)

Ed,
Here's the thing about wanting to draw a big circle around us all and say that there aren't any distinctions worth noting: you don't add to the groups you include nearly as much as you take away from the (already eroding) integrity of Christendom.

If a Christian is just someone who loves the Lord, then Mormons are Christians and so are Jews. If you say a Christian is someone who esteems the ministry of Jesus Christ, then Mormons are Christians and so are Muslims.

And so, since the 4th century, when the Nicene Creed was established, Christendom has deemed it a reasonable question to ask not just "Do you love the Lord?" but "WHO is the Lord you love?" Not just how do you feel about Him, but what do you *believe*, and what do you consider by all you can draw from to be the truth concerning Him?

I don't know the Baptist confession you're referring to. But if they accentuate the first aspect over the second, they do so at their own peril. And perhaps a generation of Mormons who think that believing in the Triune God is optional is the result.
Grace | Homepage | 08.09.07 - 11:51 am | #

Living in The Kingdom of God ?

To belong to this kingdom is to crucify the fleshly desire to live out of self-interest and tribal interest, and to thus crucify the fallen impulse to protect these interests through violence. To belong to this Revolutionary Kingdom is to purge your heart of "all bitterness and wrath and anger and wrangling and slander, together with all malice "(Eph. 4:31) however " justified" and understandable these sentiments might be. To belong to this counterkingdom is to "live in love" as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us "(Eph 5:2)". It is to live the life of Christ, the life manifests the truth that it is better to serve than to be served and better to Die than to Kill. It is, therefore,better to opt out of the kingdom of the world war machine and manifest a radically different, beautiful, loving way of life. To refuse to kill for patriotic reasons is to show "we actuality take our identity in Christ more seriously than our identity with the empire "USA", the nation. state, or the ethnic terror cell whence we come.

So while I respect the sincerity and courage of christians who may disagree and feel it is their duty to defend their country with violence, I honestly see no way to condone a christian's decision to kill on behalf of any country or for any other reason.
Hello

My name is Anthony Hall .It looks like the Christian nationalist people Do teach "taking america back for God'. In the america Civil War can you tell me did God the Father and His Son Christ,Bless the North or The South,We where a "So called Christina Nation".at that time?

IN Luck 4 the Devil tempted Christ by showing him "all the kingdoms "govtments": of the world.To you I will give
their glory and all this authority,for it has been given over to me,and I give it to anyone I please.If then will worship me,it will all be yours"God does not what this Nation, Please tell me why you wont it .

The slogan "one nation under god" Lk.4 tells us that all nations are run by the Devil, Not Christ.: "In The Devil we trust"
The Kingdom people need to see the world "USA" through the eyes of the Kingdom of God,the eyes of
faith,Not through the eyes of the kingdom "govtments": of the world, that are run by the Devil.

Throughout our history,most americans have assumed "Gods on our side".In our minds-as so often in our sanctuaries-the Cross and the american flag stand side by side.Our allegiance to God tends to go hand in hand with our allegiance to country.Consequently, many christens who take their faith seriously see themselves as the religious guardians of a Christian homeland,america,they believe,is a holy city set on a hill and the church's job is to keep it shining.
Read John 18:36. My Kingdom is not of this world "earth" We are to serve His Kingdom..

Nationalistic:
1. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.Serving Self is not what Christ is all about.
2. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
3. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.
4.nationalistic - devotion to the interests or culture of a particular nation including promoting the interests of one country over those of others; "nationalist aspirations"; "minor nationalistic differences"Serving Self is not what Christ is all about

If you have read this,I thank you for your time.

Peace in Christ
Anthony Hall
409-724-0495
Anthony Hall | 08.09.07 - 9:01 pm | #

As a non practicing Mormon I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read your little creed... Hey why didn't you throw in the 10 foot tall quakers on the moon a green jello with carrots, too? We believe in the 3 kingdoms as referenced to in the bible or the "3 degrees of Glory" we believe in eternal families, eternal marriages, & although Joseph Smith is believed by some to be a prophet... he is NO GOD. I believe he was more of a gypsy/kaballistic type creature as evidenced by our "Pearl of Great Price" which is now found to be one of the texts of the dead sea scrolls which are rumored to be bought from actual gypsies, also the stonemasons influence in the building of our temples, or to the fact that he supposedly "Prophesized" that there would be no more revelations from God to write the covenants with & lo & behold... 312 more just "pop up" Those are the things that worry me. I know our church recently denounced a major motion picture because of the very fact in there they referenced that Jesus was married. As I said I'm not practicing but I know that some of the things that you have said I hear all the time & are utterly ridiculous. Or maybe touch on the fact that we do baptisms for the dead. Huh? Far as I know while we're all here we have that choice because we are given free will, wouldn't it seem if I take that choice from you in life or in death. So dearheart if you're going to bash make the topic relevant & real. Oh & if you come up with any real, answers to my questions please let me know!
Brandia | 08.29.07 - 12:47 am | #

I'm not a scolar of anything and ignorant of most things. I am a Mormon and proud to be a member of a church that celebrates family, clean living, and the same moral foundations as most Christian based religions. I feel we should all celebrate and unite under the things we have in common not aggravate the differences that would divide us. We all accepted the first estate or we wouldn't be here, free agency was given us to see if we accept the second estate. I hope I've done enough.
Your Friend Rick.
Rick | 03.24.08 - 10:11 pm | #

Hi Rick,

You said "I hope I've done enough"

That's the whole point. How much do you have to do, and how do you know if you have done it, to earn the 'second estate?' By the way, what is the second estate?
David W | 03.25.08 - 7:59 pm | #

I have no idea what the second estate is... I know about the 3 degrees of glory. I do love some of the tenets of the church, I just don't like the fact that we are taking away from the free will of others by doing baptisms for the dead, we have a choice in this life to accept or deny... I used to practice witchcraft & even in that we weren't allowed to do things as seemingly innocent as love spells because it takes away from free will hence you've crossed over to another kind of Magik... It clearly states in D & C's that there will be no more reveleations but after Joseph Smith dies a couple hundred more pop up. The stonemasons did & still do design our buildings & temples, & the last time I checked the bible God choses the prophets, not man, yet we are in the process of electing a "Prophet" which would lead me to believe that we somehow think we are God.
Brandia | 06.01.08 - 6:07 pm | #

First, I'd like to say I really appreciate the approach you take to theology. I stumbled across your blogspot today and have been riveted to the discussions. As a practicing LDS guy I'd like to introduce the concept that there are as many Christian Mormons as there are Christian Baptists. There are also just as many practicing Mormons and Baptists who, in their spiritual journeys, are working to resolve ideas of their faith against their sinful natures and still have not given up their wills (Mormons call this "Free Agency") to the Grace of Christ. Many people of all faiths feel they have to work, blog, attend church, act a certain way, repent...you know...live a good life. Somehow they think this qualifies them for answers to their prayers for God's blessings. In fact, it is by the good grace of God (a Muslim tenet) that we receive all blessings, for God is in control and our prayers are simply expressions of our faith and our desires. God has promised, however, that he will hear and answer those who knock and reward them openly. One Mormon Doctrine I love follows this thought process:
1. If ye love me, keep my commandments.
2. There is a law irrevocably decreed from before the foundations of the world [1st estate] upon which all blessings are predicated, and when we obtain any blessings it is by obedience to that law upon which the blessing is predicated. Doctrine & Covenants 130: 20-21. [This whole section rings true to me... It is also the basis for why Mormons think they should work so hard while on the planet to gain "so much the advantage in the world to come." Interesting reading to be sure if you've never read it.]
3. By grace ye are saved, after all you can do... [This ties in to why all of us spend so much time looking, searching, feeling and trying to understand more about our relationship with our Heavenly Father [I think Islam calls this God "Allah" and by 99 other names...you think the trinity is complex? Try remember 99 names!]

Simply, the second estate is where we are now. We believe those who chose the plan of living on earth "kept their first estate" and were rewarded to come to earth and learn by choice between good and evil. It's that choice thing that separates the mormon view of grace from the original Nicene Creed followership. After we die, we will be judged. Everyone agrees on this. Muslims who kill themselves to erase infidels believe they will be judged and rewarded for their pious actions. Christians who blog believe somewhere deep inside that by witnessing and preaching and studying the bible and other "Eyeball This" documents that we somehow are in a qualifying race. We're even prone to judge others not so pious as being less worthy. However, the simple truth is the reaping principle: As we sow, that shall we reap (after all the weeding and fertilizing we can do). We Mormons believe everyone will be judged based on our works, our words and our thoughts. (e.g. If you even think carnal thoughts, you've committed adultery.)

Insh'Allah. God's peace be with you, until we meet again.
Thomm | Homepage | 06.10.08 - 4:20 pm | #