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Hope you visit, please, our Reformed web site TheAmericanView.com. Here’s our “Mission Statement.” God bless you all – and He does bless us when we OBEY Him. |
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"As Christians, we are commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ to teach all nations — including ours — to observe all things He has commanded (Matthew 28:18-20)." |
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To the contrary, it is not either or. God is glorified when government is GODLY, when civil government follows what God says is the purpose of civil government (see Romans 13). Sad to say, our national government today is Godless, anti-God --- one more reason why airplanes have flown into buildings with worse things to come, I do believe. See Psalm 9:17. |
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Romans 13 is not a required pattern for "Godly" government. You seem to ignore that Paul wrote this when the Roman government-most definitely a "Godless, anti-God" government-was in power, and yet he was saying this about them, too. Again, BAD interpretation and application. |
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In Romans 13 Paul is telling ALL governments what they SHOULD be. He's telling EVERYONE for ALL time that God ordained government and those who hold government jobs are to be MINISTERS of God's Law. Are you dyslexic? I ask because you have things backwards. Oh, and government systems are made up of PEOPLE. And tell me how the KJV is a 'bad" translation. |
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If I understand the argument properly, I’m with Bill on this one. The Great Commission is to make disciples and to baptize disciples. There is no call whatsoever in the New Testament to any sort of political action. Neither Jesus nor Paul suggests anything other than to be a good citizen--even though they lived in a godless empire. Jesus even paid the temple and Roman taxes, partially funding his own murder. He never called for any political action or civil disobedience against, for example, the widely practiced Roman form of abortion (abandonment.) Paul sent the slave Onesimus back; he didn’t take a stand against slavery. In these cases political and cultural practices that where obviously contrary to Christian teachings were more or less accepted as a fact of life—and the clear message was that we should be good witnesses in spite of our political circumstances—those circumstances are in fact of secondary importance. There was no call, that I see, that even remotely resembles a charge to political action by Christians, which in all cases is, in essence, “lets make sin illegal in the civil law.” There is simply no precedent for it in the New Testament. We are pilgrims, citizens of heaven, who happen to live in the United States. If our laws change because we make converts and our behavior is seen as a good model, that’d be fantastic. If not, so be it, we just keep giving the gospel. |
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You say, in part: "There is no call whatsoever in the New Testament to any sort of political action." Really? So Jesus meant nothing when He said render to Caesar wht's Caesar's and to God what is God's? Sounds like He's saying there are some things Caesar/civil governmment can and cannot do. Re-read Romans 13 where God's Word says what the purpose of civil government is. And since Jesus is Lord of/over ALL, this obviously includes "politics." And when you mention being a "good" citizen, what do you mean by "good"? Who defines "good?" By what standard do you judge someone to be "good." And ALL the Bible is God's Word, not just the NT. Your thinking here is very superficial and has led us to our present sorry state of affairs -- Godless government. |
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"Render unto Caesar" is exactly my point. Jesus did not say: "I will not pay a tax to a nation that is amoral, will execute me, practices infanticide, condones slavery, and practices ritualistic prostitution." He paid the tax in spite of the fact that Rome had so many practices that were opposite to Christian teaching. Likewise, I'll pay my taxes even though this country allows the murder of the unborn. Jesus didn't call on his followers to set up PACs and join this or that political party. He told them to preach the gospel and walk by faith, period. |
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