-- Comment At Your Own Risk --
You're preaching to the choir, brother!
And Triton thinks he's alienating readers blogging about calculus.
Most women don't like to even see the toilet, much less with the seat up. It reminds us that you stand up and pee from 2 ft away, and that reminds us of what you pee with, and personally I don't even want to think of what you pee with unless you're my Beloved. Ewwww! I'm surprised nobody has come up with a fancy cover for the toilet, sold at craft fairs and bought by discreet housewives to hide the dirty equipment.
And if you spray my toilet seat, you'll wipe it off or be subjected to screeching when the backs of my thighs get wet. For some reason, that area of skin is impossible to dry.
Beloved suggests that we should keep the cover down, so that we both have to do equal work. I suggest that I am the housewife, and I make these decisions. If mamma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
On a more logical note, supposedly research shows that when you flush with the cover up, fecal bacteria gets flung up to 20 ft away. Therefore anti-germ nuts will want you to always put both pieces down, so that our bodies become even weaker from lack of exposure to anything they might ever have to fight.
And lastly, we are ladies. You are gentlemen. There are some issues on which decent Western culture demands you defer to us. But if you're at the home of a feminist, feel free to leave the seat up, and tell her you just want her to feel equal.
So Kiwi I'll agree to put the seat down, now, can we please get women to put the car seat back into the long leg position when you drive the car?
Oh, Res. I'm so disappointed. I thought you would be the sort to buy your wife her own car so that she wouldn't ever have to share with you.
(It should be nicer than yours, too.)
I agree with your logic, Dif, but I think Kiwi's right:
And lastly, we are ladies. You are gentlemen. There are some issues on which decent Western culture demands you defer to us.
I never found it difficult to get used to the habit and, in fact, did it long after my wife left and I was living alone most of the time.
That's just as well since I now have two other women living with me.
Also, I could refute your logic by saying that since even we men sometimes need it to be down, that should be the default position. If you're sitting, you shouldn't have to look. If we're not sitting, we're staring at it, anyway, and should leave it like we found it.
It reminds us that you stand up and pee from 2 ft away, and that reminds us of what you pee with, and personally I don't even want to think of what you pee with unless you're my Beloved.
Even then, I'm sure you don't want to think about in the context of a sewage drain pipe.
And lastly, we are ladies. You are gentlemen. There are some issues on which decent Western culture demands you defer to us.
No, not demands, merely encourages. This in particular is one issue in which Western culture is ripe for change.
But if you're at the home of a feminist, feel free to leave the seat up, and tell her you just want her to feel equal.
An excellent suggestion Kiwi. I don't frequent the homes of feminists but I will try and keep it in mind the next time I visit one.
So Kiwi I'll agree to put the seat down, now, can we please get women to put the car seat back into the long leg position when you drive the car?
A witty riposte Res.
Hey, I put the car seat back, when I'm forced to drive his car. Poor Beloved can't even squeeze in otherwise!
This in particular is one issue in which Western culture is ripe for change.
No.
Whenever women have insisted on absolute equality with men, they have invariably wound up with the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men, and their proper tactic is to demand special privileges, all the traffic will bear. They should never settle merely for equality. For women, ‘equality’ is a disaster. -- Lazarus Long
Maybe me and my hubby are just extra thoughtful with each other. He knows that I can't stand the sight of the toilet period, so the seat AND the lid stay down for my benefit, and I move the car seat back for his long legs when I'm done driving.
I don't have any real logical disagreement with you here, Dif. It's just outside my experiences.
Of course, we do annoy each other in other ways...so I don't really have a point. :D
This is simply an issue of logic and reason for me Kiwi and has nothing to do with feminism or equality.
Since having the toilet seat up or down is neither a moral nor spiritual issue, it is quite open for debate. Since women tend to get angry when the seat is up with no moral or spiritual grounds for that complaint, it only makes sense that the complainer (in this case the woman) should change HER behavior in order to diffuse the situation.
And BTW Dif, is your daughter bugging you about this already? Smart girl!
Dif, I'm just having fun. But dude, if you were my man, I would have my way in this! ;o)
And BTW Dif, is your daughter bugging you about this already?
No, she's not bothering me about it. She just tears off a square of toilet paper and puts it down.
Dif, I'm just having fun.
Oh, I know. I'm having a blast too. This debate could get hotter than some political issues.
Do I see any hands for those of us who have been subjected to the 3 am cheek dip because the testosterone halves of us forgot?
I don't really care, personally. Except at night.
In light of a logical argument for/against.
To be equal, I think both lids should be down. And it should be a requirement for both parties. Then equal amounts of work would be required from any individual who wants to use the facilities.
Or we could just require men to sit down.
Do I see any hands for those of us who have been subjected to the 3 am cheek dip because the testosterone halves of us forgot?
When I stumble in to the bathroom in the middle of the night, I always check to see if the seat is up or down. The best way to do this without putting your hands on a cold, disgusting toilet bowl is just to feel for the top of the lid. If there are two things there, then put the nearest one down. If there is only one, then you're safe. Likewise, if I only feel one lid then I reach down and pull the other one up.
The nocturnal dunk excuse doesn't cut it. 
Then you are more coherent @ 3am than I am...
My devious mind says a urinal should be part of all indoor plumbing. Maybe even attached to an easy to clean retractable tube. I guess I should apply for a patent? ==evil grin==
I'm tall. A regular toilet is low to the ground. This is a long distance for a stream of liquid to travel. It splashes, all over, just from impact with the inside of the bowl.
Try it with a cup of tap water in your kitchen sink and see just how high you have to hold the cup when you pour it out to get it to start splashing. It's not very high.
I don't want piss splashed all over every nearby surface (including pants and shoes) and no it doesn't matter where in the bowl I point the stream. Solution? The toilet seat never gets turned up. You figure it out.
Obviously the solution is to have seperate bathrooms....
Unfortunately mine is always getting raided for TP. Since I'm the only one that can go to the basement for more...
Didn't read all the comments so I don't know if someone mentioned it already... but in Germany, it is actually the custom to put the seat up. At least, when I was there some ten years ago that was the custom.
I object for two reasons:
1- When I wake up and stumble into the bathroom half asleep, and sit down on the non-seated toilet by mistake, I'm so skinny that I fall INTO the toilet. Waking up by falling into a toilet is not fun for me. If you do not hate me, you will leave the toilet seat of any toilet that I partake in down, so as to spare me this trauma and the subsequent thirteen hours of scrubbing my butt-flesh with a brillo pad. When it's dark and I'm half asleep, I cannot be expected to remember that you might be a twit and leave the seat up.
2- The dog drinks from the toilet when the seat is up. I realize that the dog licks it's own genitals, but I have more faith in the cleanliness of the dog's genitals than I do in the cleanliness of that toilet.
But really, the reason why it's so annoying to us is because it's such a small tiny insignificant thing that we ask of mankind. That they close the toilet. Not just the seat, but the top bit too.
Ken, we already knew Germans were screwy.
If there were a urinal in my bathroom, I would have to put a screen around it. That would just be too much of a reminder!
Difster, the toilet seat isn't much less disgusting than the bowl. I always use my foot for lowering it or flushing. Sweetie & Tiny think that's really cool, so they hang onto the shower door and try to do it just like me. So cute, because the flusher is just about eye level to Tiny, and used to be for Sweetie too.
Boys - Put the seat up when you pee. You don't need to sit, the seat should be up. If you splash anything, have the common courtesy to take three seconds from your precious lives and clean it up.
Girls - Check the seat before you sit. If it's up, take two seconds to put it down.
Seriously...it's not rocket science.
I'm tall. A regular toilet is low to the ground. This is a long distance for a stream of liquid to travel.
Athor, I don't normally have that problem. But I suppose that's the difference between aiming with a pistol and a rifle. :O
When I wake up and stumble into the bathroom half asleep, and sit down on the non-seated toilet by mistake, I'm so skinny that I fall INTO the toilet.
Then you should be extra careful to check the status of the toilet seat. Your inability to check does not make it incumbant upon us males to make sure it's down for you.
If there were a urinal in my bathroom, I would have to put a screen around it. That would just be too much of a reminder!
Kiwi, while no one really likes the toilet or a urinal, most women are not nearly as sensitive to its presence as you are. As for putting a screen around the toilet, isn't that what the bathroom door essentially is?
It's not really about logic or rights, it's about courtesy. I leave with three females and it's become second nature to always put the seat down. I like them so I do it. What's the big deal?
Heidi, my husband might have a fit that I'm sharing this, but he *does* pee sitting down - but only at home! That's why we've never had even the tiniest problem with keeping the seat and the lid down.
You should've seen me the first time I saw him pee sitting down - LOL Now I'm used to it.
It is my position that a person who wishes to use any appliance has the sole responsibility to configure that appliance for appropriate use.
There is no universal rule of life that requires people to conform to the preferences of others.
only women (and bloggers), believe the world should cater to their whims.
When it comes to toilet seats, I personnally prefer that the lids are always maintained in the closed position. Each user then must "open" the toilet to achieve any useful configuration desired. Then, put it back the way you found it.
Of course this prevents the dogs from using it as a magic self-refilling drinking bowl, but life does have small challenges.
Well, I figure that keeping the lid down also prevents all kinds of butterfinger-caused accidents, like dropping jewelry, toothbrushes, small bottles, etc. down into the bowl. Yuck.
BTW - I am at least willing to acknowlege that putting the seat down to keep pets from drinking out of the toilet is a legitimate argument against my theory. The rest still stands.
"You should've seen me the first time I saw him pee sitting down - LOL Now I'm used to it."
You were in the habit of watching other men pee?
DC,
Never let a women have her own car, your only asking for trouble.
Kiwi, while no one really likes the toilet or a urinal, most women are not nearly as sensitive to its presence as you are. As for putting a screen around the toilet, isn't that what the bathroom door essentially is?
Actually, the toilet doesn't bother me; I don't even require the lid down or a fuzzy cover on the lid. But a urinal, that would just remind me even more of how men pee and what they pee with. EEEWWWW! Also, it would make my nice bathroom look like a public men's room, a place I would not like to go. It would be kinda like leaving the feminine products out on the counter. Would you want to see them every time you use the john?
Res, how do you expect your wife to buy groceries when you're at work, if you don't give her a car?
It would be kinda like leaving the feminine products out on the counter. Would you want to see them every time you use the john?
Honestly, that wouldn't bother me in the least. It doesn't bother me to go pick up those products from the grocery store for a female in need either. I'm just not squeamish about those things.
Is there a problem with taking a piece of toilet paper and wiping up your splashes?
I mean, even if you live alone, do you really want some piss stained stinky toilet?
Isn't this (leaving a pee splashed toilet seat) a matter of personal cleanliness and personal pride?
This is not a problem in my house. Roy sits down to pee most times. It's not by any of my demands. It's just something he's always done. He says he doesnt' want soem stinky pee stained toilet and doesn't want to take the time to take toilet paper to wipe it up.
Another reason why this sint' a problem is when both of us are done with the toilet we close the lid. It just looks nicer.
I do find it odd that when posed with a request to do soemthing, when responding "I'm too lazy to do it" they're satisfied w/ themselves and that response.
fingers working faster than the brain. Sorry for all the typos
Did I make a habit of it? No. lol But I never claimed to be a nun.
I just thought all guys peed standing up so I was startled the first time I saw him plop down on the throne and start peeing.
Is there a problem with taking a piece of toilet paper and wiping up your splashes?
Of course one should wipe up their own splashes, that was never in question.
I've known a couple of guys that just sit down to go pee.
So I was raised by three men. My mom was there...but....well, that's another talk show.
Anyway, sometimes they didn't close the door to pee.
I was a tomboy.
I was around 3 or 4 and I saw them standing to pee, and I wanted to do it too. (Hey, when the neighborhood kids played Star Wars, I always wanted to be Luke Skywalker)
Anyhoo... I stood to pee.....you can imagine the logistics of that one. Didn't work out.
So I sorta modified it and sat on the toilet, facing the toilet. My dad came in and asked what the heck I was doing. I said "Peeing like a boy".
My dad had to explain to me that boys and girls pee differently. I was sorta bummed after that. It wasn't till about 6th grade I figured out I was a chick.....
Diff:
It would seem then, that if a guy could just wipe his own splashes, it wouldn't be a problem to just leave the seat down permanently.
A girlfriend of mine actually broke her hip when, in the middle of the night, sat down on the toilet and fell in b/c the seat was up.
Seems if men could just use some pride and hygene and clean up their splashes, it should be no prob to leave the toilet seat down.
There. Logical solution.
Someone said that leaving the seat down keeps the dog from drinking from the toilet. Not true, unless it's a really small dog. Ours drinks from it no matter where the seat is. If it's down, however, he dribbles on it on his way out. For this reason, my wife prefers that the seat be left up. (No, she doesn't want to put the lid down to keep him from drinking; this pooch is spoiled rotten.)
It would seem then, that if a guy could just wipe his own splashes, it wouldn't be a problem to just leave the seat down permanently.
You might just be an exception but most people (women especially) wouldn't want to sit down a seat that had been pee'd on unless it was disinfected, not just wiped.
I could be wrong. Survey anyone?
I'm with those that prefer putting both seat and lid down after use. This is the toilet's natural state and requires both parties to do some work in order to use the thing. Keeping the lid down during flushing is also in the best interests of hygiene.
And since I have to sit on a toilet occasionally to defecate, and don't want to sit in my own urine, I always piss with the seat up. When you're moving seat and lid together, it's no additional work.
Frankly, I'm surprised that some folks will sit on the thing without even checking its status first. That's a disaster waiting to happen.
You might just be an exception but most people (women especially) wouldn't want to sit down a seat that had been pee'd on unless it was disinfected, not just wiped.
Urine is completely sterile unless you're ill. So I don't mind sitting on urine, long's it's dry. Fecal matter, OTOH, is full of nasty bacteria.
Honestly, that wouldn't bother me in the least. It doesn't bother me to go pick up those products from the grocery store for a female in need either. I'm just not squeamish about those things.
IME, you're very unusual. Most guys don't want to even think about such.
Toilet seats belong down, and bathroom doors belong shut.
This slows down the boys on their way to flush socks and other small objects down the toilets. It also discourages putting the end of the toilet paper roll in the toilet and flushing to see it unroll the toilet paper. When Mommy hears a door open or a toilet lid clunk, she comes running to investigate.
Kiwi: I've got to wonder about a man who won't go buy a box of tampax for his woman. What does HE think the store clerk thinks he's going to do with them? Big woop. It's a box of tampax. It's obvious he's there buying something for his girlfriend/wife. I never got this.
Toilet seats belong down, and bathroom doors belong shut.
Yes, with young boys in the house. In fact, you should consider installing one of those alarms that travelers use on hotel room doors. That way you will definitely hear it every time a toliet seat is lifted.
Folks, think regional. Kiwi is from the Great White Stoic Manly Men Don't Cry North. Whilst Difster is from the Touchy Feely Metrosexual Vast Suburban Plight of California.
Just had a thought. Only in a "highly civilized too wealthy for our own good society" would we spend the time to whine about the toilet seat. Being as 98% of the world would be in tears of delight to HAVE sewer systems like those which we take for granted.
My husband and I keep the toilet closed when not in use. We do this in part to discourage our son from making the toilet bowl his new toy. The other reason is that it looks much better that way.
Sorry, I'm sick of typing my info every time. Look up above.
I totally understand why men are embarrassed about feminine products. When I buy girl stuff, I seek out a woman cashier's line, because I hate to remind men of such personal things as <gasp!> bras. I'm paranoid about what they're thinking. This is at least partly because of my dad and sundry junior-high boys being really crude and disrespectful, so maybe I'm abnormal...
Kiwi is from the Great White Stoic Manly Men Don't Cry North.
So true! But there is a surprising mix of personalities & backgrounds. Wisconsin isn't ALL Scandihoovians anymore. My husband can even cry, occasionally, only with me.
“Res, how do you expect your wife to buy groceries when you're at work, if you don't give her a car?”
I work at home, its not a problem.
BTW, I buy her a new car far more often than I buy one for me. She’s had 3 vehicles since we’ve been married I’ve bout one.
“I was around 3 or 4 and I saw them standing to pee, and I wanted to do it too.”
There is a web site to teach you how to do that:
http://myvag.net/pee/standing/
enjoy!
“My husband can even cry, occasionally, only with me.”
Good grief Kiwi, first you make him put the lid down, now you tell the world he’s a cry baby. What next? Are you going to neuter him with your sewing scissors on Oprah?
I've often wondered the same thing.
I sit down to pee sometimes. I'm tall enough and with the volume that comes out, the water in the bowl gets enough kinetic energy to escape. Splashes galore and I'll wipe them up (usually).
I'll sit down, and not make a splashy mess, but then, sometimes, I just gotta feel like a guy and pee standing up.
I agree with Kiwi - it's ugly enough without leaving the seat up - I'd prefer the lid and the seat were both down and that's pretty gender-neutral. And if you're going for usage, women seem to go to the restroom a whole lot more than men, so why not make the 12th trip of the day that much more enjoyable?
Dif, you're having WAAYYY too much fun with this subject matter...
Dif, you're having WAAYYY too much fun with this subject matter...
As a matter of fact I am.
I have read this and all I have to say is TMI people.
I have no great interest in how any one person goes to the bathroom. (shudder)
Well it is convenient to have the toilet seat down when you gotta take a late night dump. Besides, it wins over the ladies when you do it without being asked 
I do it in part because I usually get violently sick only at night and when that happens, seconds matter...
While reading your post I thought "This will get a lot of feedback". Lo and behold I see 62 Grievances listed at the end.
While reading your post I thought "This will get a lot of feedback".
I'm pretty certain that this post got more comments than any other one has. Even more than the Serial Killer post.
Res, it doesn't matter that much what I say about my husband, since nobody knows who either of us are.
When it comes to something that relates to a bodily function that everyone does there will always be an opinion.
I prefer both seat and lid kept down when not in use. Especially after the cell phone in toilet fiasco. The only excuse for having left the lid up is that I had been on the road a lot and had become used to toilets without lids. Sigh.
My husband gave me a whole "not fair for the man to have to put the seat down" speech. To me, though, it's just a case of doing something nice for the one you love. Plus, with a newborn and only 2-3 hours of sleep sometimes it's impossible to be awake enough to remember to check that the seat is down. There were times I would wake up to discover I'd fallen asleep on the toilet. If it's really an issue there are inventions out there that will do the work of raising and lowering the darn seat for you. Problem solved.
Joelle,
But we wouldn't have as much fun talking about it.
When it comes to something that relates to a bodily function that everyone does there will always be an opinion.
Exactly Joelle, and in this case there really isn't any right or wrong. It's purely opinion, preference and experience.
Urine is completely sterile unless you're ill. So I don't mind sitting on urine, long's it's dry. Fecal matter, OTOH, is full of nasty bacteria.
I actually had a biology prof. state that you can safely drink your urine if need be. There is nothing poisonous in.
We put it up when we go, the ladies pull it down when they go. Seems like and equal division of labor to me
I actually had a biology prof. state that you can safely drink your urine if need be.
That sounds like the kind of stupid thing a professor would say.
To put it into perspective, urine is leaving the body because there is nothing in it that your body still wants. It is certainly not safe to re-injest your own waste. At some point, the bad stuff has to get out of your system or you die.
Why would you want to? You won't hold back dehydration by much.
I have heard there are people who get a sexual thrill from such things, maybe this professor was recruiting.
Great psot difster! Found you through Insolublogs site. Will be back. I have had the same theory in my mind about this seat thing. Guys should just pee outside! ha ha
73 comments and still counting. Geez, this has got to be some kind of, pardon the analogy, high water mark for you Dif.
Feed the toilet roll off the top or bottom?
Flush left handed or right?
What hemisphere is your toilet in if the flushing water forms a clockwise or counterclockwise vortex?
Inquiring minds want to know.
This is a highwater mark (great pun Elmo) for my comments.
I prefer toilet paper rolling of the top but I don't get hyper about it.
Good grief, let's not start in with the quality of toilet paper, yada yada yada 
lol
Quality does matter.
Charmin Ultra, Less is more...
I don't care much about brands of toilet paper. I don't need to be wiping my butt with a cloud but some of the cheap stuff might as well be sand paper.
Old Joke:
Hey Bob, which hand do you wipe your butt with?
Your left hand? Really? I don't use my hand, I use toilet paper.
"sandpaper" or, even worse. Wax paper.
Well, both men and women should put down the seat cover when they flush the toilet; unless, of course, you enjoy fecal and urinary particles dancing on your tongue.
...unless, of course, you enjoy fecal and urinary particles dancing on your tongue.
Paula, are you aware that every time you get a wiff of someone's fart that you are inhaling particles of poop? How do think a smell gets to you if it doesn't contain a trace of that stuff.
Also, what makes you think that those particles aren't floating around regardless of the state of the toilet seat? Perhaps there are fewer but I doubt it makes much of a difference.
80 posts now!?
Talk about flush...
Hehe
80 posts now!?
Yes, my head is swirling from all the attention.
I just hope all the traffic doesn't cause my blog to tank. I'd hate to see this whole thing go down the drain.
Like one big cyber-swirlie.
Just don't change the name to "Toilet Talk Pundit"
My beloved husband is happy to put the seat AND the lid down for the well being of our lovely home. Luckily he is a germaphobe and not pleased by the sight of a bulls-eye in the toilet. Difster's idea would just make the bathroom look like a pig sty! What would our guests think? But he did give me some huge laughs from reading his idea.
Difster's idea would just make the bathroom look like a pig sty!
This from the woman who blushes when she says gynocologist.
Girls, I posted a perfectly good link to a web page that claims to be able to teach you how to pee standing up. I think if you read it and comment here we can get the thread over 100 posts.
Res, there are times I can barely keep it in the toilet sitting down. But I'll be happy to help the posting total.
Difster, don't worry. Blogster can handle much more than your little corner of the blogosphere.
Hey y'all, I posted about this too. Come boost my comment total?
I can talk all day about the toilet, but I blush furiously when I say <whisper> gynecologist. </whisper>
Years ago, I used to go grocery shopping with my friend Julie who posted above because I only had a motorcycle and was limited in the amount of groceries I could carry home.
Anyway,we'd be going up and down the aisles and once in awhile I would purposely end up on one end of the aisle containing feminine hygeine products while she was at the other end.
Then I'd shout, "Hey, Julie! Didn't you say you need to buy more tampons!"
Oh, you can only imagine how mortified she was.
Ah, the good old days.
"BTW - I am at least willing to acknowlege that putting the seat down to keep pets from drinking out of the toilet is a legitimate argument against my theory. The rest still stands."
Yeah, that's my main issue with the topic. My large 98lb dog likes to drink from the toilet, and then come and use my pant leg to wipe the water/drool off of his face. My desk is closer to the bathroom, so he always comes for me even though it's L. that leaves the seat up.
Bleh.
Dif, you are mean beyond words.
Dif, you are mean beyond words.
I resemble that remark.
Am I #93? I can't see #'s and I would like to be #93.
I am shamelessly boosting the # total.
So Dif can go tell all his blog-friends that the highest comment # he ever reached was because of a Toilet Post.
I am shamelessly boosting the # total.
Does that mean I'm shamelessly boosting my total by replying to your shameless boost of my total? I suppose it does.
I should be ashamed of myself!
**hangs head**
Dif,
Did you ever say anything like; "oh good now that your picking those up I guess I don't have to buy a home pregnancy test"?
Stuff like that always seems so funny, at least until the women figures out what you’ve said.
I'm always shameless.
Hurray! I'm number 96!!!
Did you ever say anything like; "oh good now that your picking those up I guess I don't have to buy a home pregnancy test"?
No, but I'm going to keep it in mind.
I see I've got 97. Lets keep this going just a few more so Dif can brag he got triple digits on one of his posts....
We're aiming for triple digits? Okay, I did my part. I should be #99. Who wants to put it over?
I'd like to introduce myself.
Little Miss 100.
Not quite as catchy as miss 93 or Mr. 3000.
To keep it on topic.
Did you know that in the Old Days, they used pages from the Sears Catalog as, um, TP? At least now we know where keeping reading material in the can originated from.
Yeah Heidi! My first 100 comment thread!
Thank you for your participation!
Staying on topic, using pages from the Sears catalog was probably preferable to using leaves or corn cobs.
Or pine cones and corn husks
Difster,
It's been a long time. I see you have solved the toilet seat issue.
I had no idea your blog was so extravagant. You're one of a kind!
Love ya,
Ron
104 comments? Darn, I'll have to read these some other time.
Who knew this would be your most commented on post, eh Dif?
And we have not even discussed the hole in the floor toilets of Thailand yet.
Dude, traditional Oriental squat toilets are the best. Someday I'm gonna have one of those installed in my house. They're the best solution when you're having a hard time working it out!
Just be careful what kind of footwear you are wearing. My mom lost 1/2 a pair of shoes once on a train deep in the heart of China.
I try to avoid footwear, and losing one would be a great excuse.
Man did this post hit some nerves. Personally I put the seat and cover down when down before I flush to cut down on airborne crap.
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