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I think withdraw from the area and from influencing the politics there is a good idea. We still have to deal with Bin Laden and crew (by killing them).
If we stop interfering in other nations, we will always have the moral and legal high ground to deal with our enemies harshly.
I doubt that they are scared of us - they still fight and kill themselves
Neither. It's a hoax. All the "bin Laden" tapes are. C'mon. Audio tapes. How verifiable is that.
He's been dead for a long time now.
But that's just my Kook-nut theory.
It's a hoax. All the "bin Laden" tapes are.
That certainly is a possibility but I wouldn't count on it.
Voice prints are probably impossible to forge with current technology but that doesn't mean that FedGov wouldn't lie to us about the authenticity.
If we stop interfering in other nations, we will always have the moral and legal high ground to deal with our enemies harshly.
Agreed Invid.
I don't think they have much power now. We have killed so many of them. We have destroyed so much of theirs. The only thing I can see happening here is a sucide bomber.
something bothers me about this tape, but I can't quite put my finget on it.
there have been no attacks on the US because they are preparing, not because they have failed in any way.
That... and we just killed the three guys who were planning it.
Any of you isolationists find a way to keep them from interfering here yet? Yeah, that "two oceans" thing hasn't been working so well for us lately.
Any of you isolationists find a way to keep them from interfering here yet? Yeah, that "two oceans" thing hasn't been working so well for us lately.
The border thing hasn't been working too well either.
The immigration restriction thing hasn't been working too well either.
I would consider myself an isolationist but we need to put the other pieces of the puzzle in place along with it.
It bothers me that "all of the sudden" there is talk of capitulation.
It bothers me that Cheney's response was a ringing endorsement of the Patriot Act and an almost gleeful anticipation of more government monitoring.
It bothers me that the White House Press secretary could only stoically repeat, "President Bush has made some tough calls and we don't negotiate with terrorists."
It bothers me that the talking heads are spouting nonsense.
And it bothers me that We the People get the collective Big Brother pat on the head.
But that's just me.
As for OBL? The man is a parasite and a freak. With powerful allies, a big ass bank account and the right kind of crazy to attract more crazy.
I saw earlier that the tape had been validated as genuine.
See: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,1...5-
38198,00.html
I agree with the fact that Bin Laden is either dead or to scared to be around anyone and is sucking his thumb in some fox hole like Sadaam insane was. Why would a man who loves public attention send tape recorded messages of destruction. Maybe one of these reasons.
1. He is dead
2. He is scared and almost dead.
3. Scared and wishes he were dead.
4. Wants us to have the impression he is dead.
5. Wants us to have the impression he is dead by actually being dead.
I wonder why if all of these Taliban-Al Qaida leaders believe we are pigs and deserve to die that they are not lining up at the bombs are us store getting fitted for explosive bombs to blow themselves up??? Hmmmmmmmm....
I'm of the opinion that when you have a mortal ennemy on the ropes, you should finish him off. I know that sounds unkind but this guy and his followers would slaughter our children if they could. They need to start pushing up daisies.
I agree. The history of the Moslem truce is just re-arm breathing space and R&R.
It also makes him like more of a goodguy and might even get more moderate muslims to support him. Also, he wants the dems to protect him.
The answer, both.
That's pretty much where I'm leaning on this Crossman. He is probably scared but he's being smart about it.
I hadn't thought about this as a tool to gain the support of moderate Muslims though. It makes sense. I guess he is taking a page out of Hillary's play book.
How many times did we have ceasefires during Vietnam? About as many times as we had the North on the verge of collapse I think.
Allowing the enemy to call 'time out' and rearm, reload, and reposition assets is a sure fire way to loose a war. Vietnam showed us that if anyone lacks the common sense to know it before hand.
The man is no doubt very smart. He is also a fanatic, with possible delusions of being the promised savior. I dont think fear is in him tho he no doubt knows the danger he is in (and has done a real bang-up job of staying away from our Intelligence.)
Smart and unafraid.
I guess no sane person wants to go to war, but if you must it should be with all stops out. Finish it completely and don't hold back, so that you don't have to go back and do it again.
One time at school I was suffering the unwanted attentions of a bully. I ended stoushing him something awful and got in a lot of trouble for it. It was worth it though, as he never bothered me again. I simply made sure he understood that from then on anything out of line in my direction was going to end up with the same result.
Great post, Difster.
Smart or scared?
Yeah, some of each...
The Muslims have what they call the "Peace of Saladin"
Seems Saladin, when defeated at Jerusalem sued for peace and the Jews agreed. Saladin took this time to rebuild his forces so he could defeat the Jews. Saladin is a hero of the Muslim world for this victory.
While you and I may enjoy peace for peace's sake, the Muslims do not. They plan and use it as a time to re-equip and position men and materials for attack.
You cannot reason with an unreasonable person. Osama is unreasonable.
With Osama and all Wahabi Muslims, you are best off if you stick with the old streetfighting adage: "Never hit a man when he is down, kick him"
The Muslims know fear. We will be best protected if we hit Osama so hard that any and all foes (Muslim and other) will fear us as long as the memory of what we did to him echo around the world.
What we need is an immediate purge of the Wahabi apparatus from our country. We need the federal government to bide its time and then strike every Wahabi-lead institute systematically, so quickly that they don't have time to escape. Round them up and deport them and lock down our borders.
If Bin Laden wants a truce we should send in a gay negotiator named Bruce. Embedded with a GPs locator and homed in on by an air fuel bomb with ten tons of melt off the burnoose.
I'm not at all convinced he's smart. With the resources he displayed on 9/11, he could've done a lot more damage. And if I can figure that out . . .
The only reason for limiting his destruction so that I can see is that he must require a strong enemy for what he wants to accomplish.
It has been postulated that one reason that there has been no further attacks is that the Whitehouse has threatened (privately of course) to nuke Mecca, the most holy place for Muslims. That is probably the single biggest threat that one can make.
I don't think nuking Mecca would be enough. After it cools, you would need to regularly douse it in pigs blood with those planes that put out forest fires.
regularly douse it in pigs blood with those planes that put out forest fires.
What a great plan Dif. But why wait? Just do this at a high enough altitude that anyone or anything could be contaminated. That would be interesting.
What a great plan Dif. But why wait? Just do this at a high enough altitude that anyone or anything could be contaminated.
It's the psychological factor more than anything. Knowing that their beloved Mecca was being doused by pigs blood regularly and visibly would be seriously demoralizing.
I don't see bin Laden as scared--unless he doesn't actually believe the Islamic mumbo-jumbo he spouts. After all, his death will be rewarded by Allah as a martyr's sacrifice (boy does he have a rude awakening coming). This is all smoke & mirrors, just trickery. We should assume that everything he says is a lie & has an ulterior motive behind it. I agree that this is a play for aid from the Left, & I'm sure they won't disappoint.
Seems Saladin, when defeated at Jerusalem sued for peace and the Jews agreed. Saladin took this time to rebuild his forces so he could defeat the Jews. Saladin is a hero of the Muslim world for this victory.
That's right, AJW. He's also hailed as a hero for his supposed sterling character, exemplified in his refusal to massacre the Christians of Jerusalem, while the eeeeeevil Christians had no such compunctions.
What's left out of the equation is that, when Saladin laid seige to Jerusalem, Balian of Ibbelin (the city's chief defender) threatened to slaughter the city's Muslim population to a man, & destroy the city itself. Only after this threat did Saladin allow a peaceful Christian exodus of the area. Even then, he sold into slavery all who could not produce a certain sum of money from private funds. What a humanitarian.
Bin Laden must die!
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It is unlikely that there is any threat to nuke mecca.
1) The existence of such a threat would certainly be used by the mohammadans to stir up anti-western sentiments and recruit "holy" warriors. Result: opposite of intended consequences.
2) Al Qaida is not about defending islam, they are about personal and corporate power, at the expense of those currently in power. If nuking Mecca helps their cause (and it would) they would do it themselves. Mohamedans have desecrated other "holy" sites in the past just to stir up the faithful. They have even bombed Mecca in the past.
3) Americans are too civilized to nuke a whole city for the sins of a few people. Because we are a Chrisian nation, we realize that our God-like power to destroy must be tempered by other God-like attributes: patience, long suffering, compassion for the weak, justice, etc. Our nuclear arsenal is useless to us because we will not use it, against anyone, for any reason, and they all know it. Hence, a threat to nuke someone would be laughed at.
Surah 8:56 "And those with whom, no matter how often you enter into a treaty, break it every time and do not fear its consequences."
This comes to mind about OBL is doing. Lull the US into complacency and then break the peace with some kind of attack. Much like they did on 9/11.
Steve,
Since OBL is not a nation state, we cannot have a treaty with him. Since the essence of treaties is force, a treaty is not useful or desirable. He cannot force us to comply with it, and we would be happier to kill him than to sit with him at a treaty signing.
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