Please stay on topic. Please don't be asses.
Wow. Just... wow.
"The simple truth that modern weapons now mean a nation must practice genocide or commit suicide."
holy shit.
Wow, hard to argue with that logic.
What the heck? That's not a spoof?
What, exactly, is his thesis? That to avoid nuclear attack by terrorists, we're morally obliged to kill everyone on the planet not us?
Why don't they just name themselves the "Legion of Doom" or something while they're at it?
Now what serious person could find anything there which should be off the table.
Oh there are things which need to be discussed- which country to nuke first (or rather, second) and which people to genocide first, and other details.
And reasonble and serious people could disegree over whether President for life means that, or maybe just twenty years (you know Republicans are very big on term limits).
But on the whole, there's lots to discuss.
It's a nuke or be nuked world, gentlemen.
I have to go to the dentist from the damage caused by my jaw hitting the floor.
Yow.
Hieronymus, that's funny, mine seems to be clenched all the time. I guess we all react different.
The problem is that these are not just a bunch a high school kids deep in the thrall of their First Serious Thoughts and whacking off with a keyboard.
Very scary.
found this post on a blog dealing this 'organization':
http://impeachmentproject.blogsp...orses-
bush.html
from the post:
"UPDATE: According to this, Family Security Matters isn't only a front group for the Center for Security Policy/National Security Advisory Council. The CSP/NSAC actually picks up the phone at the FSM's contact number. And please read through the list of people affiliated. There are lots of high ranking members of the Bush administration, not the least of which is Dick Cheney.
True, as far as I'm aware, Dick Cheney did not actually write the article calling for a Bush dictatorship. But Dick Cheney and many other members of this administration are part of the organization that published an article calling for a Bush dictatorship. And that's scary, no matter how you look at it."
For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
These clowns live in a cartoon world.
~
These clowns live in a cartoon world.
Yeah, and they're trying to drag the rest of us into it.
What is so very scary is that millions of preachers are preaching this from their pulipts.
We need to nip this in the bud before they make the Handmaiden's Tale a reality
ahem. "emails?"
This has got to be a joke, right?
Right???
Are you sure this isn't a Yes Men prank?
Anyone want to put some money on whether we see serious movement in this direction before this is all over....one way or another.
What are you all going to do when they take steps in this direction? Are you ready to stand up for your beliefs?
I've been saying for a few weeks that the logical extension of the Bush/Cheney philosophy is that they would not leave on January 20, 2009. If they can defy subpoenas without consequence and defy Congressional statutes, what's to stop them from just staying on? Same DOJ, so no indictments possible.
Does it really make sense that they would amass all this power and then just turn it over to the Dems?
They truly are nuts. First of all because they think we'll let them get away with this. Second of all, trusting Bush to be their Caesar. Nothing says doomed to failure faster than having Bush leading the charge. I almost wish we could give them their own planet so they could go off and play in their own fantasy world.
Bat-shit crazy...
Holy cow! This guy is paid for these psychotic, bloodthirsty fantasies?
In what kind of parallel world does someone not only want to read the violent scribblings of a sociopath like this guy, but actually pays him to write them? Oh, yeah, Bushworld.
This may sound like harmless wingnuttery, but before you reach that conclusion, read Professor Peter Dale Scott's The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America, University of California press, now available from Amazon.
The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed.
"Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks."
Hieronymus, that's funny, mine seems to be clenched all the time.
Twern't my jaw.
I've been saying for a few weeks that the logical extension of the Bush/Cheney philosophy is that they would not leave on January 20, 2009.
If one party makes profound, enduring changes to the fundamental law and structures of a country that would inevitably redound to their disadvantage when next they return to opposition, it is not 'paranoid' to conclude that they simply don't intend to ever return to opposition again.
As no sane man ever whittled a switch gratis to hand to the next man to beat him with, the future of the Republic hinges on them being crazy.
Nah, this guys is "serious".
Here is his main website - (he is Australian)
A sample - How to diagnose if a community is declining:
...
5. Consider the community's general attitude to truth; a civilization rises because it pursues truth, it falls when it suppresses truth. Our stance is revealed by the existence of popular delusions, whose absurdity has not prevented them from being adopted as truth by governments. The list of popular delusions include:
AIDS is a sexually transmitted disease caused by the HIV virus.
CFCs (Chlorofluorocarbons) cause a hole in the Ozone layer so their use must be banned.
Corpulence is the result of eating too much.
Democracy is good government
DDT, (Dichloro-diphenyl-trichloroethane ) must be banned to avoid a 'Silent Spring'
Eating beef from cattle afflicted by Mad Cow Disease will cause a brain rotting disease.
Global Warming is a threat to human existence.
Jobs for all are essential for economic prosperity.
Multiculturalism.
Native Title.
Political Correctness.
The Courts are there to make people behave.
Violence never solves anything.
He could then follow Caesar's example and use his newfound popularity with the military to wield military power to become the first permanent president of America, and end the civil chaos caused by the continually squabbling Congress and the out-of-control Supreme Court.
A Bush dictatorship....
Now I have heard everything.
Why don't they just name themselves the "Legion of Doom" or something while they're at it?
Llelldorin
This is a great idea. They could have uniforms and everything. I've already seen dubya wear a few in his Lord Fauntleroy dresses up phase.
So here's another idea. Maybe this explains why the GOP isn't raising more money for the 2008 races--there won't be an election!
Did anyone tell Rudy? Or is he (like Grandpa Fred, apparently) just raising money for the sake of raising money?
You know I consider myself a thoughtful person, but obviously I havent been doing my homework.
There are a fistful of ideas that havent even occured to me in this article. Stunning piece of writing.
The best is my new title for shrub: Victim of Democracy.
(I think this is the author of "springtime for Hitler")
And reasonble and serious people could disegree over whether President for life means that, or maybe just twenty years (you know Republicans are very big on term limits).
Mooser
The best reason there is to get a Democrat in the White House(other than cleaning up the nasty messes) will be seeing how fast the Republicans and our corporate "News" Media start realizing how vital it is to keep that executive branch in check.
WARNING: If you go from Digby to the FSM website, your IP address will identify you and your cookie trail will show you came from Digby, thereby placing you on the FSM/NSA list of dissidents to be picked up when young Caesar finishes conquering his Gaul and turns on this internal political enemies.
Does it really make sense that they would amass all this power and then just turn it over to the Dems?
Mimikatz
No.
Short answers to long questions.
Ha, this Phil Atkinson guy is a piece of work, isn't he? Check out his bio:
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/a....com/
author.htm
Executive summary: the mean kids picked on me because they knew I was better than them! I got fired from my job, and since then my wife has supported me while I publish books 'online' (sic), because I'm a Philosopher!
Awesome.
Wow, that really was a good argument against democracy, if only because our democracy allows loons like that to have some say. But all the same, I'll stick with our system, cowardly electorate and all.
WARNING: If you go from Digby to the FSM website...
Eek, Columbus, Ohio!11one!
P.S. Ramen.
~
this administration made me understand why the founding fathers put the 2nd adm. in the bill of rights.
Setting aside the war crimes and genocide, and pre-adolescent goth dramatics and fantasies, I think the screed Digby discusses has something in common with the warmonger conservative panic attacks during the Cold War, especially the ones that occured right before the end. Remember the gloomy and fearful assertions that the western democracies just weren't tough enough, how democracy just wasn't up to snuff in countering the inherent discipline, ruthlessness and long range clever schemes, of the commie block? Democracy had to be suppressed, checks on the west's ruthlessness and capacity for violence and wholesale destruction of people, property and socieities, had to be removed. Or we would would lose.
I see the same sort of mindless panic working here. Same pants-peeing panic that recommends diving into complete immorality and depravity, which they think will rescue victory from the jaws of defeat, but will actually do the oppisite -deliver defeat from the jaws of what in the long run will be certain victory for progressive, tolerant, humane, democratic values. But a certain kind of reactionary, or conservative, or, real sceeeered fraidy cat, cannot see any of the strengths of democracy and progressive political institutions, and tolerance, but only the weakness and therefore thinks its defeat is certain. Unless we destroy it in order to save it.
These poor sad frightended creatures look around and interprets self-criticism, disagreement and free and wide ranging debate, and self-correction (which we need a whole lot of right now as a society, in the effort against extremism and terrorism) as weakness.
Apparently, this chap is British. For that, I apologize. As far as I can tell, he might want to seek treatment.
Apparently, Rudy's advisor, Norm the Pod is now a moderate. I did not think that James Woolsley was quite that insane. Perhaps he missed that one. How the hell many of these lunatics are there loose in America?
Here's another one from that site - by John Lewis in Jan. 2007:
http://www.familysecuritymatters...x.php?
id=575255
His point:
Bush’s war strategy of non-war has resulted in a functional paralysis caused by our self-imposed failure to identify and confront open and avowed enemies.
His fantasy:
Americans mount a vigorous offense against the center of the enemy’s power. Waves of bombers obliterate dozens of enemy cities. His food is choked off, his military is decimated, his industry is bombarded, his ships are sunk, his harbors are mined—his people are psychologically shattered. In a single night, a hundred thousand civilians die in a firestorm in his capital. Americans drop leaflets telling the enemy population which cities could be next. Civilians are immersed in propaganda from their government, telling them that they are winning the war—yet they cower defenselessly while American bombers level their homes.
[...]
We call upon the enemy to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative is prompt and utter destruction.3
When the enemy balks at the ultimatum, atomic bombs are dropped on his cities. He surrenders, thus acknowledging the reality of his defeat and making a political decision to cease fighting. He orders his reluctant soldiers to lay down their arms. The American military occupies the defeated nation. We censor the media, impose reforms on schools, dismantle economic cartels, efface militaristic language from discourse at all levels, and write a political constitution which they are forced to accept. We tell them, pointedly and publicly, that they are defeated, and that we have no obligations to them. When they face starvation, we remind them that their miseries are their own fault. We charge them for many of the costs of the occupation. Not one dime of aid arrives until they demonstrate their complete surrender, in word and in action, including their repudiation of the militaristic ideology that motivated their attacks.
Nice, huh?
Sadly, Caesar gets killed shortly after taking full power by angry senators, and eventually, the barbarians at the gates sack Rome.
Pick your analogies better.
Did somebody say James Woolsey, PNAC founding member?
After a brief, unhappy tenure as director of the CIA during Clinton's first term, Woolsey joined the law firm of Shea & Gardner, which serves a number of major corporate clients, including the defense contractors Boeing and Lockheed Martin and which counts among its former employers Stephen Hadley, who was appointed national security adviser during George W. Bush's second term.
~
That's got to be music to Bush's ears. He is the first president that I can conceive of accepting the role of dictator. It has been apparent since he started talking to god about invading other countries.
Thankfully, the traditions of the military will not permit such a disaster. But we need to keep up the discussion of Bush losing his liberty. He and the corrupt core of Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, Rice... The list goes on. They should all pay the price of liberty for the murders they have committed.
The Bush government is fascist. Look up the word in the dictionary of your choice, - compare with Bush government policies, machinations, designs, ambitions, and rhetoric, and get back to me.
Security Family Matters is one of many disinformation, propaganda, and slime coverns financed and peopled by fascists in the Bush government and the Republican Reich. The morphing intertwining of fact and fiction, the blurring of reality and surreality, the glorifying of all things Bush, conservative, christian, and GOP and the ruthless sliming of all thing democrat, liberal, and anyone daring to question, challenge, dissent with, or oppose the fascists pernicious policies and ongoing perversions, corruption, and betrayals are the hallmark of fascist "thinktanks" like Security Family Matters. This spew is regurgitated repeatedly and incessantly to the dimsheeple, partisans, and truebelievers in redneckAmerica who adore this tough talk and either abide and blatant lies and fascism, or are too ignorant and ill-informed to comprehend, recognize, or appreciate the concept
of fascism. This latter pool of idiots are too stupid to form indvidual ideologies, formulate positions, or recognize pathological lies, and simply chooses to follow the fascists because they act tough, wear red whitandblue accessories, and love thebabyjesus and god speaks to Bush in the WH, - Amen.
All any decent human being can do to counter this brutal insanity, is too challenge, question, repudiate, renounce, and reject every slithering lie these fascists pimp. Every single one.
"Deliver us from evil!"
Just to clarify: I raise the possibility that Bush/Cheney may not be planning to leave in January, 2009 to get people to think the unthinkable, not to discourage people from participating actively in the 2008 election and all other political activity.
We were told in 2006 that everything would be ok if the Dems got Congress and got the subpoena power. But the Bush/Cheney regime figured out a way around that--stall, dissemble, lie, and, in the end, just tell the DOJ not to prosecute anyone in the regime for crimes. Take that, Congress!
So now we are told to wait until 2008 when we take the Presidency along with keeping both Houses. And I have to ask myself what, oe who, exactly, is to keep them from holding over like some nightmare tenants, daring the Dems to post 30-day eviction notices which the DOJ and GOP-stacked judiciary will just ignore?
All of this is by way of saying that it is much easier to draw the line NOW (by beginning impeachment proceedings against Gonzales, for one obvious example) rather than try to evict them on 1/20/2009. Always easier to resist before the Reichstag fire rather than after.
I wish the Dem leadership understood this. But we have to start thinking about such things before it's too late, because when it's too late, it really is too late.
Apparently, this chap is British.
So is John Derbyshire who complained about the Virginia Tech students' not rushing the campus shooter. Is the US suffering some sort of right wing douchebag shortage that we have to import them from the UK?
I used to write crap like that. Of course, I was in high school, did it as a joke and wasn't paid.
And Kevin beat me to this point: That strategy worked out real well for Caesar.
What about the Patrick Poole hit job?
Jay-sus frickin' christ, this guy is ranting about what the CAIR members chose NOT to do in confronting this situation, and is then condeming them for it? Shit Patrick, if things worked that way you would already be walking around with no dick and a face to match... Hmmm on second thought maybe he has a point.
A VERY small And VERY sensitive point. He uses it to pee with....
Mimikatz | 08.20.07 - 8:48 pm |: Cheney and his stoog trying to stay in office sounds like a fantasy to me. I have pictures in my mind of a huge throng marching on the WH to turn them out, which would get ugly. But then, Giuliani tried a similar stunt. I agree that Congress needs to do something dramatic and effective soon, otherwise acquiescence to outrages may turn into a precedent that later allows those ourages, especially if the current wingnut dominated supreme court can find a way to have a say in it. And we want to avoid that.
My god, these people are scheming to subvert the very principals of American democracy. They are attempting to overthrow our government by inciting violence, pitting Americans against fellow Americans. They are nothing more than terrorists, suborning murder, anarchy, and destruction throughout the world.
Here's another good one (J.R. Dieckmann, June 2007):
http://www.familysecuritymatters....php?
id=1079578
Beginning:
God must be laughing at the practical joke He’s played on humanity. Or maybe it’s one of those situations where He doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry. Maybe it’s just His way of testing His creation to see if it’s capable of surviving in both His world and in ours. Whatever the case, we’re stuck with it and must try to make the best of it.
So what’s the joke? Simply that God gave the western world the intelligence, skills, ingenuity, and resources to develop a modern, electro-mechanical, civilized society where we have made the most of it to improve our lives and make ourselves more comfortable. But then God gave the fuel that powers our society to an uncivilized, 6th century, religiously radical culture in the Middle East. These are people who wouldn’t have the slightest idea of what to do with it, were it not for us. They still don’t, so they sell it to us and we have come to depend on those sales.
And the end:
The enemy fights dirty, we also need to fight dirty. Meet them on their terms, but with superior weapons. We can do that and without taking a lot of casualties. Let the enemy take the casualties. That’s what war is all about. As General Patton once said “No one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other guy die for his.” Truer words were never said. That’s what war is all about.
Do you hear that, President Bush and your liberal friends in Congress?! We’re getting pretty fed up with your screwing around with war. Don’t start it if you’re not willing to win it. Europe isn’t going to like us no matter what we do unless we lose. Our national pride and security depend on you learning how to fight a real war, because that is what we have to do for the survival of America.
Brilliant!
The writings of Philip Atkinson, J. Philippe Rushton, George Lincoln Rockwell, et al. are the basic stock from which the contemporary right wing soup of racist, eliminationist rhetoric is made. Posts and comments on LGF, Powerline, rantings by Ann Coulter, the schticks of Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, campaign commercials by the RNC, and on and on simply represent varying dilutions of and recipes made from the essential philsophical and epistemological bullion cubes represented by Atkinson's screeds. Atkinson's brand of thought in the past century or so is represented by Jim Crow, race-marriage laws, the eugenics movement, immigration "reform" of the 1920s, Japanese internment, and whatever contemporary laws, foreign interventions, court rulings, political rhetoric, and executive orders are animated by ideas that Northwestern Europeans and their American descendants sit astride the top of the genetic, cultural, and moral heap.
You go, Digby, and anyone else who runs with this news. Surely if Bill O'Reilly can hold Daily Kos responsible for a handful of comments it wouldn't be asking too much to hold the distinguished and ever-so-teevee-prominent FSM Board of Directors responsible for the ravings of one of their premier columnists.
BTW, here's more of Atkinson's eliminationist BS:
"Mexico is now (circa 2000) colonising America and imposing its language and culture. Though the Americans still have the strength of understanding to recognise that the Hispanic invasion should be stopped, they are unable to take the measures required to achieve this end. The very least that must be done to halt the Hispanic invasion is the mass enslavement, or execution, of the invaders, which must be followed by an American invasion of Mexico to enforce American language and values upon the Mexicans." (source: http://www.ourcivilisation.com/t....com/
theend.htm )
Something else caught(lodged itself into) my eye:
FSM readers want to know how to become more knowledgeable citizens, screen out media partisanship, and better protect our families and country. To assist in your quest, we have compiled an "enfactlopedia," a collection of no-nonsense explanations, informative definitions, and links to relevant articles and illustrations to give you the facts you need to know about national security, the war on terrorism, and every citizen's role in protecting the country. You'll find this wealth of information in the four tabs you see above: Terrorism, Challenges, Homeland, and Global. These four tabs comprise our Enfactlopedia.
Take some time and read through its contents, conveniently divided into these four main subjects. Not only will you find terrific resources to help you become a more knowledgeable citizen and better at protecting your family, you can read a thorough and factual accounting of who the terrorists are, the obstacles we must overcome in combating them, and the vital anti-terrorism policies at home and abroad that need our support. Any time you see the "e!" icon, you'll know that Enfactlopedia Term appears in our glossary and can be searched below. Click on the nearby word or concept for further definition or explanation. Still can't find what you need? Search the entire website using the search box at the top of each page. Soon you'll find that you're becoming comfortable and familiar with ideas that were once foreign or too complex
I hope people realize that the modern conservative movement was, at heart, ultimately ALWAYS about such radical and extreme ideas and policies. Most might not have had the nerve to state them publically, but now that they're approaching a moment of political oblivion (and barring some unforeseen, radical and truly catastrophic development, this is all but inevitable), some of them have decided to pull out all the stops, stop pussyfooting around with their carefully-constructed lies, and throw all caution to the wind and bring out ALL of that dirty laundry that they've been hiding all these years.
These people are fascists who do not and never have believed in democracy. Always have been, always will be. Anyone who doesn't get that is just living in a fantasy world. They may or may not get to do all of these terrible things, but it won't be for lack of urging, if not trying. Get ready for a truly terrifying last 17 months during which nearly anything could conceivably happen. ANYTHING.
ENFACTLOPEDIA BYEATCHASSSZZZZZ!!!!
It is meant to be a provocative article. It is not meant as advocating this scenario, just pointing out that if liberal activists persist on their present course, this may be the best remaining alternative.
It is meant to be a provocative article. It is not meant as advocating this scenario, just pointing out that if liberal activists persist on their present course, this may be the best remaining alternative.
nabalzbbfr | 08.20.07 - 9:03 pm | #
So speaks the brownshirt. I mean chickenhawk brownshirt, the nazis wouldn't have let bedwetters like today's NRO types into their organization.
~
Ickey point Minikatz, but far more likely a reality than you may dare to imagine.
After you read this http://www.globalresearch.ca/ind...&
articleId=5720 and weep. Imagine the sequel to 9/11 just happens to occur in the US sometime close to the election. At that moment, (if it has not already been initiated) the President would activate this directive, presume dictatorial powers, suspend elections, and take all the measures necessary for "Continuity of Government'.
"Deliver us from evil!"
I'm reminded of the quote (possibly apocryphal) from Tom Lehrer when Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize: satire has been made obsolete.
I wondered whatever became of Fafnir and Giblets.
just an aside: the Roman Empire lasted hundreds of years after Caesar's death. The barbarian hordes didn't really topple the western empire until the 400s (right, historians?). These guys would be perfectly fine with that amount of time.
Reading through this, halfway I started thinking about the Roman Empire, and then they mention it...
I wonder how many millions the Roman Empire killed. It must have been many.
If Bush = Julius Caesar who's Brutus? Cheney?
Does that make Gonzales Caesar Augustus? (that's a thought that's going to fester)
I like this headline from the FSM site: Is Any of the Presidential Candidates Perfect?
Conclusively proving that with friends like this we already have an enemy.
So Digby has unveiled this and brought on the brilliant snark and horror response here and it's all good.
Plainly, our leftwing conspiracy theorists who've been mocked and denigrated aren't so crazy after all. You simply can't be too conspiracy-minded or cynical in this country anymore. Impossible.
Hooooeeee! Methinks somebody's been taking a certain HBO series a little too much to heart, haven't they?
Modern Romans, for true. And I'll bet this drooling lackwit thinks he's proconsul material.
You can almost feel sorry for the poor slobs: This is what 60+ years of nuclear blue-balls can do to certain weak-minded individuals. Only genocide can restore their flagging ... enthusiasm.
Hmmm...and we're encouraged to believe that, because of his rhetoric, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is so crazy that he has to be taken out?
I posted about this a few days ago, and what got to me was how many people thought it was a spoof.
I'd heard it originally on on the Thom Hartmann show, and when I reminded commenters that Thom isn't one to kid around in that way, they gave it credibility.
Interesting responses.
I'm glad you revived the original post. Good stuff. Thanks!
FSM is mainly about hating Mexicans. Among other things, they send a retired INS agent named Michael Cutler (also of the "Center for Immigration Studies") to do local radio and stir up the rubes. When the Senate passed a change to Euro visas recently, the local non wingnut radio host googled up Cutler and called him to interview for an expert. Needless to say 10 minutes in it's all "wide open borders", drunk murdering mexicans, and terrorists. You know, the usual. So I call in and ask him where he got his estimate of 24 million illegal immigrants in the US. He calculated it himself, he says. I guess he figured no one is paying attention. He's probably right most of the time.
SIde note: same radio host responds to Sicko by interviewing Stuart Browning to get the other side of the story. Idon't think it's intentional, though, just cluelessness.
How refreshing. A Republican that isn't a hypocrite. One that comes out and says what the others only dream.
It is meant to be a provocative article. It is not meant as advocating this scenario, just pointing out that if liberal activists persist on their present course, this may be the best remaining alternative.
nabalzbbfr | 08.20.07 - 9:03 pm | #
That is actually a threat. I don't know how serious you are, but what are liberals threatening with? Democracy? Liberty?
There exist some people who seem to say: "If you don't let us oppress other people then you oppress us!". You can't misunderstand liberty more than that.
Well, what can you say, except, did you hear about the Brazilians in Iraq?
An aide went up to Bush and sez, "Hay, Chimp, three Brazilians are dead in Iraq!"
Bush sez, "OMG! How many's a brazillian?"
My favorite part of Atkinson's self-bio:
"With determination, skill and a little luck I forged a career in computers before being forced into retirement in 1991; a fate that brought as much relief as anxiety. No more salary, little chance of ever getting a job, but no longer having to pretend that the community and its administration was sane. And I was fortunate that my second wife, an Australian by birth, was happy to work so her husband did not, and for the first time in my life I was blessed with leisure. Not only did I not have to toil, but also I did not have to worry about paying the bills, which is another essential qualification for any student of the community."
Incredible, this man's willful delusions.
Thanks for noting/recording this astonishing document.
Is it time to buy a gun yet?
Thanks -
"I hope people realize that the modern conservative movement was, at heart, ultimately ALWAYS about such radical and extreme ideas and policies."
-(Kovie)
A good point. An obvious point. A true point.
But one may also add that the modern conservative movement will ALWAYS BE about such ideas and policies.
And the modern liberal or progressive movement will ALWAYS be about allowing them to continue in this manner.
As a matter of principle you say? Certainly.
The event horizon of fascism hardly aims for inclusivity; it aims for the utter destruction of liberalism.
Liberalism cannot self generate an event horizon which would exclude the survival of fascism, as its values lack the exigency to do so.
What must be realized is that a modern democracy and the continuance of fascism are mutually exclusive.
The solution? Vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton and the Democratic party.
Perhaps a brief interregnum of Neo fascism will succeed in allaying the advent of the real thing.
The defense of private corporate capital can always throw out a few bones of pretense to the idiot Democratic party true believers.
Long enough so the ruling class money can secure its capital to whether the storm.
Remember!
Hillary Rodham Clinton!
That is actually a threat. I don't know how serious you are, but what are liberals threatening with? Democracy? Liberty?
Liberal know-nothings are threatening to undo all the gains the Bush Administration has achieved in the Global War on Terror during the past 6 years, putting us in a far worse position than we were on 9/10/2001. This would be an unimaginable disaster - in effect America would be committing national hari-kiri. If there is a serious chance this might come to pass in the 2008 elections, then Atkinson's proposal is a far better alternative.
What Joe Bacon said.
I've heard a few times in the last couple years now from right wing fundy types that dictatorship might be a better option.
Is there some system flying under the radar that is pushing this onto millions of church goers?
I guess this numskull didn't read the part about how Cesear ended up dead.
Is there some system flying under the radar that is pushing this onto millions of church goers?
Mass stupidity.
Oh. My. God. I was so bored by the opening bit with the sophomoric issue about 'popular' vs. 'wise' that I almost stopped reading before I got to the part about the 'wise' choice having been to use nuclear weapons to obliterate a nation that had not attacked us and had no means to attack us. Since the Iraqis could not have complied with Bush's demands that they destroy weapons they didn't have, killing them all would have been his only 'wise' option.
Are we absolutely sure this isn't some Swiftian masterpiece? Could anyone seriously have written about Bush saving the world from terrorists armed with nuclear weapons mere paragraphs after advocating nuclear genocide of Iraq? How self-righteous and oblivious is it possible for a human to be?
Anyway, who gave them permission to use the Flying Spaghetti Monster's abbreviation like that?
And here comes Jill arguing nothing can be done.
Reminds me of when I met my Aunt's second husband. He started opining about America's role in the world when he learned that my girlfriend was a returned Peace Corps volunteer. Hearing her Peace Corps philosophy, he countered with "Why would people object to being taken over by a superior culture?" He was dead serious.
Liberal know-nothings are threatening to undo all the gains the Bush Administration has achieved in the Global War on Terror during the past 6 years, putting us in a far worse position than we were on 9/10/2001.
It's telling you don't tell what those achievements are. Is it the torture regime? The Iraq invasion/occupation?
Bat.
Shit.
Crazy.
Did you ever think you would see the day when Americans were openly calling for the end of parliamentary representation and the institution of Caesarian dictatorship?
I wonder if this asshole knows that Caesar was assassinated because of his advocacy of land redistribution downward and promise of cash payments to the lower classes?
Bat.
Shit.
Crazy.
"Thanks for noting/recording this astonishing document." -(Michael Jensen)
-No Michael it is not at all "astonishing."
What is astonishing is how many commentors on this thread believe it to be "astonishing."
It is as if they refuse to believe they are living in America.
Why is that?
I already know, so its your turn to tell me.
Oh. My. Gawd.
By elevating popular fancy over truth, Democracy is clearly an enemy of not just truth, but duty and justice, which makes it the worst form of government.
Hmmmmm.
I've always wondered who the real terrorists and insurgents were supposed to be.
Here's the answer:
Us.
It's telling you don't tell what those achievements are. Is it the torture regime? The Iraq invasion/occupation?
For the record, I don't think Atkinson's scenario is likely. I think the American people will wise up soon and elect President Giuliani in 2008 to continue building upon the solid foundations of American greatness laid by President Bush.
"And here comes Jill arguing nothing can be done."
-(Bengt Larsson)
No Bengt.
A lot can be done, but the first thing to do is start thinking clearly, so you will know what to do.
Then you will start to see things as you move along.
Right now?
A brutal stasis.
jesusgodallmighty
"It's telling you don't tell what those achievements are. Is it the torture regime? The Iraq invasion/occupation?"
For the record, I don't think Atkinson's scenario is likely. I think the American people will wise up soon and elect President Giuliani in 2008 to continue building upon the solid foundations of American greatness laid by President Bush.
nabalzbbfr | 08.20.07 - 10:12 pm | #
In other words, you've got nothing.
For the record, I don't think Atkinson's scenario is likely.
Ah yes. The tap-dancing begins.
What's next?
Atkinson Was Just Kidding.
Atkinson Didn't Really Mean It.
Atkinson Was Only Expressing His Own Opinion.
For the record, Atkinson didn't say anything about an election of Giuliani or anyone else. He was talking about no election at all.
Okaaaay. Message received, loud and clear.
Whew! Good thing we aren't a democracy any more. I'd be getting worried.
I do have one request for the Flying Spaghetti Monsters, er Family Security Matters ... could they please screen their genocidal maniacs for writing ability? Either that or get a fucking editor. It is one thing to advocate serial genocide and the murder of billions. It is quite another thing to butcher English that way. That's just wrong.
nablahblahblah--
Wow. You're that scared of a few thousand whacked-out jihadists?
What a coward.
The right-wing certainly is the voice of the elephant.
The elephant that is terrified by the ant.
Do you actually think that we are under threat?
If so, let me introduce you to the submarine arm of the US Navy, which could do exactly what Batkinson advocates here: nuke everything.
Oh, and then there's about 1000 nuclear capable long-range bombers in the US Air Force, not to mention the tens of thousands of ICBM warheads it controls.
In short, we have more nukes than they have people.
I don't think they're going to destroy us.
In fact, I'd say we're the safest we've ever been here our Plutonium Curtain.
Nations pose no threat whatsoever to US security, and al Qaeda and every other terrorist group could easily have been eliminated long ago if the Administration didn't want bin Laden alive to use for scaring wimps like you into accepting totalitarianism.
Your subservience is exceeded only by your mental weakness.
"This brilliant action not only ended the personal threat to Caesar..."
Oh, my. I missed that the first time through. I had forgot that, after hanging Brutus, Cassius, and the other conspirators from meat hooks, Julius went on to rule for 700 years before ascending into heaven trailing clouds of glory, though not before setting up his great-great-great-great grandson Octavian as Decider for Life.
I do not know of any gains the fascists in the Bush government have made since 9/11 nabalzbbfr, - would you kindly provide some examples?
From my perspective, if the Bush government was not complicit in the horrors and mass murder operations of 9/11, (and there is plenty of evidence warranting that suspicion that has NOT been investigated thoroughly), then they were incompent. Every office, agency, organization and individual in the BUSH GOVERNMENT were defeated on 9/11 by 19 jihadist mass murderers (15 of them Saudi) using our planes and box cutters. Either way 9/11 was a failure of epic proportions that fall squarely on the Bush government.
Then after 9/11, most of the world lept to America's aid, and proclaimed, (even in Iran) that "we are all Americans now!" Six years later the entire world hates us, and for many sound, well justified reasons. We are torturers, pathological liars, imperialists, supremists, fascists, profiteers, warmongers, and disproportionately influence by socalled kristian zealots who proselytize the same malignancy as bin Laden, and all the jihadist freaks. The speak is peppered with a different flavor, the books, and profits are different, - but the underlying hate and biggotry is exactly the same.
America is mire in a bloody, costly, horrorshow whose mission is very very far from accomplished in Iraq and muslims who did not attack America, had no working relationship with Al Quaida or jihadist, and posed no threat to any nation, and certainly not America. The fascist in the Bush government lied about the jusitifactions for the horrorshow in Iraq, the lied and continue lying about the costs in blood and treasure, the timeframes, and the ultimate objectives of the noendinsight costly bloody nightmare, and excuse for wanton profiteering in Iraq.
If there are any gains, and I know of NONE, - they pale in comparison to the losses, and the deceptions, abuses, failures, pervesions, and ruthless betrayals America has sufffered and must now hazard under the fascists in the Bush government.
"Deliver us from evil!"
I dunno, as bat shit crazy stupid as the article Digby posted is, uh...this is just a public outgrowth of the same old shit these moronic goons have been talking about for years. Nowadays it's on the web. They used to photocopy this shit and hand it out on street corners. Check the pic embedded on skin of the site - that's prime white supremacist imagery there, what with the nice vaguely blonde and blue eyed lady and her tow headed little blue eyed boy.
I kinda think a lot of you are giving the author a lot more credit and influence that what he really has. He sponges off his wife...he contributes to a bat shit cray racist web site. It's the same old propaganda and paranoid fantasy garbage they've always peddled. Brown is the new black, after all.
Are these people bad news? Uh huh. Should we keep them on the radar and expose them for what they are? Sure thing. Do we do what we need to do to keep their influence to a minimum? Of course.
Will they be taking over America in Jan. 2009?
Uh...
You have got to have made this up!!!!! There is no way that any sain person would write this.
Excuse me a moment I dropped my jaw...
That's better. Who the fuck...why the fuck would...
Just fuck!
I love the benign names they give their organizations; 'Family Security Matters'.
I think the first comment pretty much says it.
I thought this was a satire of a nutty neo-con. But this person appears to be serious.
These people are seriously nuts.
Can you say, authoritarian follower?
Tinhorn fascists give me gas.
This makes more sense if you assume he's from Gambino Family Security Matters.
Holy fucking shit! I hope this was actually a joke ... Please, it's a joke, right? hahaha ... right? It's a joke! Right???
Am I wrong or did this guy just advocate the overthrow of the American Government? I'm all for freedom of speech, but I also know that you can not yell fire in a crowed theater.
At some point you have to call out the treasonous and bring them to justice.
In my view this man is a traitor and subversive and should be arrested as such.
Am I wrong, must we let this rotten diatribe like this stand? Do we have to let this vile spread though out our society?
Honestly the biggest qusetion I have is what could possibly have occurred in this guys life to make him so warped and pathetic?
Mr. Donut, I see your point, but have you read Rudy Giuliani's foreign policy proposal? There are quite a lot of scary things there. More military spending. Not a word about Saudi Arabia. Etc.
"Gobsmacked" doesn't quite get at what I felt reading this piece of lunacy. It was more like "Are you fucking kidding me?"
Bush as the savior of humanity and the ruler of the world? From so-called christians?
This is not religion: it is idolatry, pure and simple.
There's nothing quite like suggesting we all must follow the Ten Commandments when these idiots can't even remember the first and foremost of those.
Well, it is a good thing that article was googlecached. Of course it is sincere. And some of those are famous names. James Woolsey was once a CIA director, after all. And these people are not a fringe group either.
These people speak for the Lifted Pinkie brigade of America's Economic Nazi Elite; the same Elite which funded and supported Hitler's rise to power in Germany to begin with. German Nazism has deep Upper Class Roots in America. Notice that I DID NOT SAY deep AMERICAN roots. I said DEEP UPPER CLASS roots IN America. Which is NOT the same thing.
Publishing this article and spreading it around is a very important first step. Saving all the articles these people try scrubbing is also very important. Spreading knowledge of these articles and of the Very Important Persons which staff
these groups to hundreds of millions of European citizens is also very important. Just as America helped lift a finger in Non-Fascist Europe's fight against Fascism/Nazism in Europe in WWII, it may be necessary to
Europe for Europe's own well being to life a finger in Non-Fascist America's
fight against Fascism/Nazism in America today. Of course, if there is
no NonFascist America organized as a fighting force against Fascism/Nazism in America today, then there really is no one for Europe to productively lift an effective finger on behalf of, is there?
So the millions of non-Traitor non-Conservatives in America really have to decide whether they are going to try to debate the supporters of this article, or combat them. Liberal Pussyism would call for debate and reason with the authors of this article. Patriotic Rejectionism would
call for combat of one kind or another. I would suggest non-violent combat while that is still possible, in part because I am still as unarmed and helpless in a shootout as I was when I first discovered hullabaloo. Economic resistance designed to tear down the mainstream economy and plunge
America into a Great Depression so profound as to turn every billionaire into an utter pauper would be one form
of that resistance. I am sure that smarter people than me would have better ideas on what kind of targeted economic combat to wage against the Upper Class in order to bring it down and destroy it before it destroys us. And I wish those smarter people would start suggesting things.
I do know one thing. If Pussy Liberal Surrender Monkeys continue to frame the terms of our response, then America has a Social Class Nazi future.
OMG! It is thinking like this that make people hate Americans. When I became a citizen - I was so proud - now I'm just plain scared at what this wonderful Country has become.
Mr. Donut, I see your point, but have you read Rudy Giuliani's foreign policy proposal? There are quite a lot of scary things there. More military spending. Not a word about Saudi Arabia. Etc.
Bengt Larsson | 08.20.07 - 11:24 pm |
Bengt, I have read Rudy's confused and awful statement on foreign policy, but I simply have believe that enough Americans are done with that type of attitude and approach and that we will not collectively choose it next year. I'm curious if you think that Rudy's stances are getting traction with anyone but the GOP base right now? I'm talking about those elusive independent swing voters...
I guess I think that crap has just about run its course and Bush has basically found in the Surge a way to kick the can down the road and let the next gal or guy take it up. He'd prefer a Rudy or a Willard to do that, of course. Anyway, second term presidents do that all the time...I honestly think Bush is tired of Iraq and that means he's tired of his one and only real foreign policy initiative/centerpiece. It was supposed to be the crown jewel of his presidency, in his mind (or Karl's) but look at what it is instead. Sure, in public he goes through the motions, but I think it's ground him and everyone around him down. Again, I just think most voter are sick to death of what that type of foreign policy approach (if you can call it that) reaps.
Really, you may of course disagree, but I just don't think any of the GOPers have found the right notes, at all, that will sound with the voters next year. We've been going it alone militarily and failing miserably diplomatically (when diplomacy is even attempted, that is) and spending like mad and I just have the sense that the majority is really fed up with it.
"For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons."
And he wants America to be those terrorists, after which there'll be no humanity to save.
Wish I hadn't read this so late in the evening, it is NOT condusive to peaceful sleep.
Just call me Brutus.
After reading this, does anyone doubt that the wingnuts in the White House, with such ardent and insane backers, are on the brink of declaring MARTIAL LAW, and ditching our democracy???
Immediately after getting re-elected in 2004, Bush and his wingnuts pals set in motion their plans for seizing permanent power, with Alberto Gonzales doing what he's been doing at the Justice Department an important part.
But let's not forget the secret warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens, U.S. spy satellites training their spy cameras on U.S. soil, large amounts of taxpayer money going around the nation to police departments and DHS centers to buy their loyalty, the building of $385 million worth of secret detention centers due for completion by the end of this year, DHS setting up a TIPS program from which to pay informers who spy on and turn in other citizens, pastors being recruited into "Clergy Response Teams" to mobilize in case of martial law, Bush executive orders stating he'll "consult" with Congress and the Supreme Court "if" he declares martial law following a national emergency (and solely based on his judgment), the overturning of the 1878 Posse Comitas Act and suspension of the habeas corpus right of suspected "enemy combatants" (based solely on Bush arbitrarily deciding who or who isn't an "enemy combatant).
Bush-declared MARTIAL LAW looms, my friends, my fellow patriotic American citizens.
And to hell with Bush being Caesar.
holy fucking what the fuck?
ok, now that this has registered, didn't we all know these sycophantic droids believed this psychotic narrative of george bush as the second coming, the conquering jesus, america's "president for life"? yes, yes we did. you can see it in the lack of spark in their eyes, by the stiffness of their expression, the void where body language should be. these people aren't just weird, or wrong, or stupid. i think their brains have been sucked directly out and replaced with some other shit.
this thing, whatever has been done with them, may be a self-replicating and infectious process of some kind. we should really round those already infected up and put them in a bunker.
So many comments, so little time:
I wonder how many millions the Roman Empire killed. It must have been many.
It was many millions, probably. But more importantly, the Roman Empire won over tens and hundreds of millions to "Roman-ness" over the centuries. And even in the last decades, its culture seemed omnipotent.
The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed.
This is ... well, what should one say? Carthago delenda est? We didn't even do this, really, with the Japanese Empire, who had the world's best navy in 1941. We are not Rome. We are not Xerxes' Persia. This man needs medication of some sort.
Finally, while this wingnut dipshit posts insane crap (which, regrettably, gets plenty of funding and applause from the wingnuttosphere), remember this:
They may have gutted the Fourth Amendment. But they haven't yet gutted the Second. Arm yourselves while you can. It profoundly confuses the wingnuttosphere when non-batshit-crazy-right-wingers buy firearms and learn to use them. And it may be your best defense against tyranny.
But...
If Hillary made herself President for life, she would be Attila the Hun, right?
Or at least evil Xena.
I pooped my pants!
Again!
As a middle school composition teacher, I would need to know the emotional level of the student who wrote this as well as what kind of individualized learning plan he was working on in order to judge his writing. Clearly he is doing well with sentence and grammar mechanics, but the lack of coherence, inaccurate understanding of history, absence of ehtical insight and ignorance of effects of nuclear fall-out indicate an almost pre-school level of maturity. In addition, the lack of transitions and habitual use of introductory prepositional phrases implies a lack of logic skills. Disappointing effort. needs improvement.
Does anyone else think the reason Dems are so anemic about standing up to these thugs is because they and/or their families are being threatened?
We've lost many good Dems over the years in mysterious deaths -- have we ever seen the same of any Repubs?
There is no doubt we are dealing with a mob-on-steriods gang and I honestly put nothing past them.
I remember Pelosi making a comment during that blogger conference call a month or so ago, that things were worse than we could imagine. (Not her words, but something to that effect.)
Good chance that we're on our own out here. Wes Clark was interviewed a few weeks ago at the LA ENOUGH rally -- which was combined with the weekly IMPEACH rally. This is part of the conversation:
Retired General Wesley Clark, former Presidential candidate stood with the group for most of the rally. I asked what he thinks of Impeachment. He said he would support the investigation leading to it. I then asked why Congress is not going forward with Impeachment. He explained that people in high public office are pressured heavily in ways that most of us could hardly imagine, to do what the right-wingers want them to do. So, he added “the best hope for our country is you guys, doing what you are doing right here!” Amen.
Good lord.
Ha, ha, ha, ha! Just two "candidate profiles" appear on the website of this "organization," Tancredo and Hunter.
I'm sorry I can't at this time make it through all the comments, but as others have said - wow. Delusion doesn't do this shit justice. Thank you Digby for helping to keep this creepy horrible ick from being flushed down the memory hole.
In fact, could you re-post this weekly? Really, they don't always spell things out this clearly.
OK...I get it!
But tell me...who is looking for these guys?
They must have escaped from somewhere recently.
"I wonder how many millions the Roman Empire killed. It must have been many."
It was many millions, probably. But more importantly, the Roman Empire won over tens and hundreds of millions to "Roman-ness" over the centuries. And even in the last decades, its culture seemed omnipotent.
More importantly? This is exactly the kind of thing the batshit crazy want America to do today. Ie running an Empire with brute force.
This is ... well, what should one say? Carthago delenda est? We didn't even do this, really, with the Japanese Empire, who had the world's best navy in 1941. We are not Rome. We are not Xerxes' Persia.
They weren't either, until they were. Germany was recognized as a nice and civilized country before WWII. In other words, things can change.
If you think it can't happen in America, you should recognize that it couldn't happen in Germany, either.
Most Americans are woefully ignorant about how Hitler took power. In fact, most conservatives today in America would vote for someone like him in a time of crisis. He stood for traditional values, he stood for respect for religion, a traditional view on education, strong defense and national indepedence, national pride, and he was an anti-Communist. What's not to like? Sure, he was an anti-Semite...
http://www.theworriedshrimp.com/
...citDubya43.html
"In my view this man is a traitor and subversive and should be arrested as such." -(Bison)
-Nonsense.
Using the words "traitor" and "subversive" is using the language of patriotism.
Patriotism, whether coming from the right, center or left is unconscionable.
OH MY GAWD!
He said that out loud?
HAHAHA
Yo, Julius, how'd that work out for ya?
Oh, that's right, he got so popular that the senate assasinated him.
Man, there are really some scary motherfuckers out there aren't there?
Why does this tie in to the study which showed that successful traders often have personality traits that can be considered psychopathic? It seems like, in order to be successful in today's amoral power world, you just can't care about others, with "others" being defined as anyone worth less than a few million, or not part of your social group.
Why am I reminded of the society that eliminated its hairdressers, and phone hygeinicists (among others), and after eliminating the "deadwood", promptly was killed by a virus from a phone that wasn't cleaned by the absent phone hygeinicists. (Hitchhiker's Trilogy)
Some of said that it has become impossible to parody these people. It is becoming apparent that they are worse than any Thomas Harris character. Humanity has no value beyond their clique, whether class, company, or religious.
Here is another right wing nut website posting this crap...there are some crazy people posting comments and some sane people also commenting. Its a really interesting read.
http://www.shelleytherepublican....-
democracy.aspx
This is so adolecently Conservative think tank juvenile goo-losh.
Fry these two items atated;
Their Framework #1
The inadequacy of Democracy, rule by the majority, is undeniable – for it demands adopting ideas because they are popular, rather than because they are wise.
So a idea tht is "popular" can in no way be "Wise" as well?
-(Its wise as long as only a Republican decides it is)?
'So let Mark Foley decide if Pedaphilia is a crime, he is republican?
Framework#2
When faced with the possible threat that the Iraqis might be amassing terrible weapons that could be used to slay millions of citizens of Western Civilization, President Bush took the only action prudence demanded and the electorate allowed: he conquered Iraq with an army.
"I know where the WMD's are, they are North-South-east-West of Tirkrit", Don Rumsfeld.
-Bush took the "only" action "prudence" demanded?
-There has never been a single military scenario, nor a single political plan, but very many options to deal with every issue of action on other Governments.
- Now Bush chose one option he may call prudent by his judgment. But the American people were led to believe the President had much sounder judgment and he would utilize it. We find it not to be the case. And difference with the Prsidents judgment was muted in the media when addressing the fallicy of Bush's course prior invasion.
Now all the Nuke'em carping. Not sure if it is worth addressing. Ask yourself why the big Oil Co's were brought in prior to the invasion? Do these reckless conservative that seek the rapture really believ Bush was invading Iraq for anything other than oil? What good would conquering a country wealthy in oil with nuke if the nukes will prevent you from exploiting those oil reserves.
I can see it at the pumps- regular, ethenol, premium, unleaded and no-radiation. Another free market choice for the consumer...........
Holy shit. These guys are actually advocating sedition. Why isn't the Secret Service investigating this?
"'Apparently, this chap is British.'
"So is John Derbyshire who complained about the Virginia Tech students' not rushing the campus shooter. Is the US suffering some sort of right wing douchebag shortage that we have to import them from the UK?"
Don't forget randy Andy Sullivan and Tony Blankely while you're at it.
Then there's Rupert Murdoch not to mention the Reverend Moon.
Whose side are the Republicans supposed to be on again?
If there was any question which is the Party of Death. . .
I've been saying for a few weeks that the logical extension of the Bush/Cheney philosophy is that they would not leave on January 20, 2009. If they can defy subpoenas without consequence and defy Congressional statutes, what's to stop them from just staying on? Same DOJ, so no indictments possible.
Does it really make sense that they would amass all this power and then just turn it over to the Dems?
Mimikatz | 08.20.07 - 8:07 pm | #
Dear Mimi,
I'm with you.
Extrapolate it out another round:
Does it make any sense that the Bush administration would provoke one Constitutional crisis after another, block all efforts to get at their documents and testimony with everything they've got, only to risk it all coming to public scrutiny once a Democrat got into the White House and reversed Bush's executive orders (13233, in particular)? It sort of puts Hillary's locking away her papers from her time as First Lady until after the election into an interesting perspective, no?
Toss the National Security Presidential Directive/NSPD51 and Homeland Security Presidential Directive/HSPD-20 of May 9, 2007 into the mix. Why is it we've gotten no explanation about what these directives are about, what they anticipate?
What explains a toothless legislative branch that issues one warning after another to a devil-may-care executive branch after it blows off subpoenas by saying, "We really really really mean it!" I've lived through ten administrations, more than 50 years of Congresses, and in all that time not one Congress kowtowed to an executive branch trying to assert authority over it. Not one. Even if it was from their own party.
If a coup d'etat had taken place in America in the 2000 election, wouldn't it look just like this? Would any member of Congress go out on a limb, go up to one of CNN's microphones and announce, "There was a coup d'etat in 2000 and we're now living under a Bush-Cheney dictatorship"?
Jay Rockefeller put a handwritten letter into his own safe following a meeting with Cheney on the warrantless surveillance programs. How is it that that got through the minimum one news cycle, and without the media ever asking, "The ranking member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence handwrote a letter documenting a meeting he had with the VP on an illegal warrantless surveillance operation, was threatened not to tell anyone about it, and put the letter in his own safe as insurance -- in America?"
This cannot be a serious article written by a person who was paid to write it... please tell me it is some new kind of right-wing self deprecating, sarcasm laced humor... please tell me that!
So when Hillary's president, will she rescind the powers Bush granted himself? I think not. We'll breathe a collective sigh of relief, thinking the worst is over. It won't be. All it would take is another "terrorist attack," and the screws on what little is left of democracy will be turned some more. Unlike her predecessor, she will be blamed for not acting to prevent what happened, and the sheep will beg for more "protection" from the "threat." It could be almost anything.
Bill hangs out with Bush I. They're buddies. I rest my case. Comments?
Ye Gods.
Where is Bill Hicks when you need him?
Hooray!!!
Let's hear it for mass slaughter and a dictatorship.
Why is this scumbag not being tried for treason?
A perfect 10 on the stupidity scale.
I commonly refer to this current crop of republicans as the radical republicans. I think this makes it oh so apparent why that label is no stretch.
He doesn't work, he gets no pussie from his wife as she works all the time to support him and the family. So in all his free time he writes crazy shit and fucks all the neighbor's kids, just so he can condone his existense and feel important. He is a tipical necon nut case.
to borrow from the late, great molly ivins:
i liked the piece better in the original german.
This guy Atkinson is the most honest, stand up conservative, I have seen yet, the rest of them try to hide it.
go Atkinson - be the face!!! 
http://tinyurl.com/22bhnv
Declining Culture Vulnerable To Parasites
The impact of the intrusion of an alien culture upon a failing culture is similar to a parasitic attack suffered by any failing creature. Though the citizens of a declining community are slowly losing their attachments to their own community, they still feel some sense of obligation towards it. It is their community, full of their own kind, which is their tribe, so regardless of their growing indifference to their society’s tradition, they still feel a concern for its welfare. Whereas migrants from alien cultures have no such concerns; they are among strangers with a different culture. These invaders have not come to improve their host’s society, but their own, at the expense of their host. Hence such invading minority communities are parasites upon their host community.
Aren't these people worried about contaminating the holy land with radiation?
What would the Israelis think aboutr our careless use of nukes in their neighborhood? Or the Turkish? What about the Saudis and our troops in the region who would also be exposed to radioactive fallout?
And whoich lukcy people are going to retrieve the Iraqi oil from the radioactive remnants of Iraq?
These people are almost too stupid to live but just smart enough to not die.
Ok Ok this guy Atkinson has to be a joke - NO conservative is this honest.
Tell me this is a joke.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=c...clnk&cd=5&
gl=us
Mexico now colonizing the USA
Mexico is now colonizing America and imposing its language and culture on it. Though the Americans still have the strength of understanding to recognize that the Hispanic invasion should be stopped, they are unable to take the measures required to achieve this end. The very least that must be done to halt the Hispanic invasion is the mass enslavement, or execution, of the invaders, which must be followed by an American invasion of Mexico to enforce American language and values upon the Mexicans. But the citizens of the USA recoil from such ruthless violence embracing delusion instead. They pretend that their futile defense is not folly, ignore the slow but inevitable takeover of their country and persecute anyone who tries to dispel their illusions. America has lost its ability to defend itself and must eventually be overrun by people from other cultures.
I have to say, I disagree with this essay.
We don't need a President-for-Life.
We need a Unitary Vice-President-for-Life.
I can't believe Cheney let these guys write such an awful essay, not even including him in the President-for-Life planning process!
Funny how he left the part out about Caesar being stabbed to death by a couple dozen senators. Wonder who would play Brutus in this little alternate history fest...?
People that think like this need to go fight these wars or shut the fuck up and keep playing command and conquer...this is not a video game ...these people call themselves christians, what a crock of shit....but hey they are too chicken-shit to actually do any of this themselves so they instantly marginalize themselves.One problem with that is that we have a portion of our country that is stupid enough to sign up for this and do it for them...i'm a devout aethrist but god save us all if these freaks ever gain that much dominance......
*aetheist
We haven't been paranoid about the fright-right wing after all! This confirms how fascistic they really are. Unbelievable!
"bongo" wrote: "Bill hangs out with Bush I. They're buddies. I rest my case. Comments?"
You're on the right track. Bill pushed for NAFTA and The WTO, which has decimated the American middle and working classes. Hillary and he are part of the Neo-Liberal DLC - the dem wing of the international elite (rich) plutocratic corporotacy.
Read book - "The Global Class War" by Jeff Faux for elaboration and enlightenment.
obviously an example of a Republican churchgoing christian.
I'm speechless, no comment can do any justice. Excuse me while I take a shower. Or two.
That is the craziest rant I have ever read in my entire life.
I will give the author credit though: he does not conceal his utter contempt for democracy, nor for the "cowardly electorate" (i.e. the people of the United States).
Just wanted to note that Julius Caesart and August Caesar were two different people.
"Thankfully, the traditions of the military will not permit such a disaster."
The American military is reportedly broken, a consequence of longer tours of duty, inadequate equipment, and rules of engagement which run counter to what are considered traditional American values. At the same time the role of the military is being increasingly supplied by private mercenary corporations. Do not bank on the military rescuing democracy in America. Perhaps most telling in this scenario is the departure of Karl Rove - no need for an election guru in a dictatorship.
If the Romans had invaded Iraq then the Iraqi's would have running water, food, medicine, jobs and even electricity by now.
We should have outsourced to the Romans.
As if I needed any more convincing that Republicans are evil, amoral, soulless, demonic murderers. Mr. Atkinson proves that the GOP is nothing but a terrorist cell.
Are you sure this is not in the spirit of Jonathan Swift's modest proposal?
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2385
Prev | Next
§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
How Current is This?
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
Patriotism isn't sitting on the sidelines and cheering while someone else protects the rights they want you to have. If Bush/Cheney do try to take the Caesar route, the patriots will be the people who actually resist.
Let's hope they're not that insane, but keep your powder dry.
Sorry. Did someone just advocate making Bush "President for Life" in fact, sans snark?
He ain't no Christian when he says, "the ancient Roman Empire ... gave peace and prosperity to the known world."
The Roman Empire crucified Jesus and for hundreds of years had its lions dine on those Christians who were not otherwise slaughtered at roman circuses. Plus, plenty of the 'known' world was not part of the Roman Empire including Iraq and Iran, Russia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, China ...
And can even a man as psychologically twisted as this author reveals himself to be in his on-line Bio really believe:
"If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results"
Does he know a single American [of non-Iraqi heritage] who wants to be re-settled in the blazing deserts of Iraq?
If we are comparing JC and W, let's remember that Julius Caesar was brilliant. When he conquered, he did so at the front bravely and intimately leading his troops.
The one thing they share in common, they are Barbarians with advanced militarized technologies. This guy sounds like Conan the Barbarian: "boost American prestiege [sic] while terrifying American enemies."
We should add to our descriptive lexicon for these tyrannical madmen:
Fifth Column[ists]
Barbarians
who advocate barbarity
This guy seems too stupid to care about. Due to the way our Democracy (that he hates) works, he could never gain traction with this kind of insanity.
"If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results: popularity with his military; enrichment of America by converting an Arabian Iraq into an American Iraq (therefore turning it from a liability to an asset); and boost American prestiege while terrifying American enemies."
This type of statement qualifies as "IDFL", or Instant Discreditation for Life. So thank you for re-posting it, but certainly no one should take him seriously.
Has the sweet smell of Dominionism about it, with a smattering of stale sophomore-year Ayn Rand . . .
A quick Google of Philip Atkinson reveals a large output of some noteworthy opinions -- noble teachings on matrism v. patrism (Oo, quick, quick -- guess which ism is the right "ism").
But you already knew, did you not? But here's some of why: Matrism, you see, has an irrational hatred of pedophilia, while patrism has a rational fear of homosexuality. Honest.
Philip appears to be a poopy-filled diaper fetishist kinda guy. His parents must have followed James Dobson's kiddy-whipper advice.
"Inevitable Results Of A Disciplined Upbringing
Whereas if the child learns it has to adapt its wishes to meet the demands of the parents, then the lessons taught are:
1. The parent is the master of the child.
The child must be obedient and respectful to those in authority; when the parent smiles the baby smiles, and so confirms who is in charge.
2. The child is the master of its feelings.
The child must control its feelings to meet the wishes of authority.
3. The child's feelings can only be sated when it is right.
The child must learn Right, which is that approved by authority, from Wrong, which is that disapproved by authority.
This is Unselfishness: the pursuit of duty, showing respect, being obedient and upholding right over wrong (justice), all founded upon truth —morality. "
Certifiable.
Family Security Matters is devoted to the security of whose family ? Sounds like it's devoted solely to the security of the Bush family, the rest of us be hanged.
for the record: i was totally and in a completely juvvie fashion kidding around with digby on my 8:01pm comment at the top of this thread. please don't speak for me, whoever presumed to contact digby on my behalf, relating to her my nonexistant ire. digby is the best, 1000% better blogger than i will ever be, and i have never said otherwise, privately or publically.
humor, people. sometimes blogging is about that too. don't take everything you read online so literally.
chicago dyke
Jesus mother-grabbing christ.
Sadly, Caesar gets killed shortly after taking full power by angry senators, and eventually, the barbarians at the gates sack Rome.
Well, Rome did have a 400+ year run after Caeser the Dictator before the barbarians sacked it... and the Eastern Empire puttered on for another millenia.
But still, the historical ignorance on display in this piece is mind-boggling.
Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter...
Not really. Caeser pacified Gaul by enfranchising and romanizing its leaders. The idea that he depopulated the entirety of what is now France, much less repopulated it with Italians, is absurdly stupid.
This brilliant action not only ended the personal threat to Caesar...
This is a man who was assasinated a year after the Civil War "ended".
...but ended the civil chaos that was threatening anarchy in ancient Rome...
Yet the wars continued for FIFTEEN YEARS.
...thus marking the start of the ancient Roman Empire that gave peace and prosperity to the known world.
"They made a desert and called it peace." - Tacitus
But, all in all, I would point out to this guy a quote by one Flavorius Flavius: "We can do this like Brutus!"
That is some excellent satire! very funny indeed..... one hopes
the "blow your head off to save your life" writter of the artiicle forgot the part where bush brings the army home to slaughter American citizens.
The Google Cache link is dead now.
"...save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons."
I think he means from "Siezer Bush".
"Et Tu Karl?"
Anyone whose life peaked at ninth-grade essay writing can obviously find a job with Family Security Matters. Honestly, that reads like it was based on entries in a really condensed dictionary.
_
Someone needs to remind this psycho that the 'Dark Ages' were caused by religiously genocidal people like him running the governments.
Atkinson seems to be using somewhat idiosyncratic definitions of "reasonable" and "brilliant."
Also "American."
As so many others have noted, when reading this I was 99.9% certain it was satire -- and pretty good Swiftian satire, at that.
So, yes, I Googled this fellow -- and he does SEEM to be a legitimate lunatic.
But maybe he's some sort of 'mole' (like the Yes Men) infiltrating the loony bin just to see what he can get away with and still be listened to?...
(More likely, this is wishful thinking on my part...)
In any case, this remains brilliant satire -- inadvertent or not.
This might work in a badly written movie but in real life this crew could not swing it. Too many countries would not want this to happen, including China and Russia, hard to ignore them. Also not every member of the armed forces are so gung ho that they would follow these commands. Most of the officers may be very conservative and follow the rules but they zealously believe in things like our constitution. (I was interviewed by an E-7 who freely admitted to getting goosebumps when he hears the national anthem.) Still I would not doubt that ideas like this are being bounced around to see what they could get away with...
If Philip Atkinson wants the US to be the new Rome with Bush as the dictator, shouldn't he be living in the US?
After all, outside of the US, he's in danger of being vaporized by nuclear weapons if his countrymen don't get down on their knees and worship Bush's pants.
I wish I had the money to take this letter and publish it in USA Today so the world could see what these people truly believe. I remember reading an article in the 1970's how the conservatie christians were planning a stealth campaign to get political control by hiding their true beliefs and putting controversial issues like abortion and homosexuality out front. Clearly their strategy has worked. God help us all if these people remain in power.
Insanity rules the Wingnuts. These people are certifiably nuts. I am stunned beyond words at the mental illness that produced this screed.
Atkinson is a simple lunatic. Read his web autobiography; he's a damaged creep still nursing childhood grudges and fantasies of power and violence. Without the web as a platform, he'd be ranting on streetcorners.
The alarming thing is that this Family Security Foundation would put up this screed. Can we assume Frank Gaffney is in favor of nuking Iraq back to the Stone Age?
"Homeland Security Enlisting Clergy to Quell Public Unrest if Martial Law Ever Declared"
www.ksla.com/global/story.asp?S=6937987
?
OMIGOD...just when I thought that I couldn't read anything that would upset me more that the combined crap of the last 7+ years! This post should be sent to ALL liberal radio hosts with huge arrows all around it so they focus on it...it should be read OUT LOUD and often - ALL OF IT...sent to members of Congress and whatever else folks can think of...I know I'm copying it out to take to a Democratic caucus tonight.
Of course, just when we think we've heard it all . . .
Isn't Laura Ingraham a regular on CNN now? If so, CNN should be flooded with e-mails about her association with this group, a member of the board, no less.
Pure evil and insanity for the price of one. Bargain.
Really ?
I served this country, did my time and I certainly didn't serve so people like these ignorants could spout such insanity, believe me when I say that I am not writing what I really feel, it would never get past the moderators.
So, it's November '08, or January '09, and Bush declares that national security requires that he stay on as President. A mysterious fire has burned down the Capitol.
Now what? What's the plan? March on the White House? Man the barricades? Inject some spine into Congress? Military coup?
I'd like to hit the ground running when the fertilizer hits the fan. So, let's have a discussion.
So much wrong with this I can't even begin.
"The inadequacy of Democracy, rule by the majority, is undeniable – for it demands adopting ideas because they are popular, rather than because they are wise."
1) Someone who would even dare use the phrase "inadequacy of democracy" is obviously not interested in the best interests of America. You don't even need to read beyond this paragraph to know what's coming- whether it be monarchy, dictatorship, etc.
2) It's so nice to know that "wise" people will look out for the best interests of our nation. God forbid that all of us dumb citizens should have a say in the way things are run.
3) Democracy isn't a "popularity contest" -it's a way for the citizenry to engage the government and have a say in the way government acts in their lives. Further, an engaged populace is essential to a vibrant democracy and government because it allows the presentation and implimentation of new ideas and policies and removes stagnated concepts and outdated and ineffective laws. Which would be obvious-unless you're anti-democracy.
Using Julius Caesar as an example of "What to do" is awful. Caesar invading Rome with his army is where the term "Crossing the Rubicon" comes from- it was a terrible idea then and it is a terrible idea now- and as much as this Atkinson clown might welcome martial law, I think the majority of the 300 million people living in this nation wouldn't be too thrilled about it.
Although, Caesar is an apt example when you consider that he was a vain and arrogant ruler who overstepped his bounds
The thing that blows my mind is that no one has called you people on this. You are spelling out in black and white that you are against our very form of government and our very way of life. If any one group is "Un-American" it's you people- not progressives who call you on this bullshit.
Although, I will say I'm impressed that this guy could stop fellating George W. Bush long enough to write this thing.
I would further ask all you guys this:
Have you had enough?
I speak for you
Yes
Bengt Larsson, Obama also wants to increase military spending and increasing the size of the armed forces by 65,000. That's one of many reasons why I say that if you expect a Democratic president to make everything better, you're in for a colossal disappointment. Incrementally better just isn't going to cut it. We're screwed.
It's something in the water, right? Or somebody got dropped on the head too many times as baby? Or some genetic mutation wherein bile substitutes for blood.
Or it's just blatant, purposeful FUD.
Just read that. All I can say is Holy. Friggin'. Crap.
Interesting that it's been removed from the original site. Looks like they had to lock this guy back down into the basement.
On second thought, it HAS to be a hoax, right? It just seems too blatant or something.
Stray thoughts:
It really wasn't Caesar and the Romans who repopulated. That technique was started by the Babylonians, who transplanted large swathes of conquered peoples to other locations in their empire, replacing the disposessed with subjects from other locations. Someone who is supposedly religious should know this, as this is outlined in the Old Testament. Of course, the Babylonians got theirs within a generation or so mene, mene, teckel upharsin
Also, if the madness is cross party--which it is beginning to appear to be the case, then Bushco will likely leave quietly when their turn comes. Because they know that it is now a game between the centrist leaning and right dominant parts of the ruling clique, fighting over the egg of the sooty tern, even as the country collapses around them. Everyone takes their turn at the game, there are winners and losers, but the spoils are still distributed both ways.
IIRC, corpororations used to give most of their money to the Republicans, and the Democrats got minimal support from that side of the funding machine. Now the donations come in almost 50/50. Accepting such funding is what's necessary to get a seat in the game, and those who don't need the money are already part of it. I don't know if public funding would help, or if some lottery winners would have to fund candidates, but otherwise big money is backing every horse in the race so they can't lose, except to each other.
Very Roman, that, and with the creation of large, privately funded military forces (a la Blackwater), we are progressing to the next step in the Empire model, armies beholden to the leader/corporation, not the state.
The nuclear option discussed by the madman is similar to Rome salting the fields of Carthage (although we've only defeated Iraq twice, not three times).
I think we needed to move Milton's sign to Liberty Island, or am I getting too cynical?
Well, the guy isn't even American & so he misses a crucial point: the President is an ELECTED official (2000 & 2004 elections discrepancies notwithstanding) -- in other words, the President is NOT a KING or a QUEEN. And those in the military swear to uphold the CONSITITION, not the executive branch-- a lot of folks in the military would NOT go along with this wet dream porno fantasy.
Reminds me of Richard Harris as "the Duck of Death" in Unforgiven going on about the Queen of England. LOL
"If you were to try to assassination a king, sir, the... how shall I say it? The aura of royalty would cause you to miss. But, the president..."
What a dweeb.
We *must* somehow get these insane people as far away from power as possible. Any suggestions how?
I'm amazed that the writer could smuggle this out of the Day Room and past Nurse Ratched to his publisher.
Methinks he needs his Thorazine upped a smidge.
What worries me about a 2009 coup d'etat is this: there are 2 possible responses from the american citizenry.
1 is that there are demonstrations in the street. Maybe even big-ish ones, although i doubt they'd be all that big. The administration has 2 choices of how to respond: either ignore them, or suppress them brutally.
if they ignore them, they'll go away, most likely. America probably doesn't have the will to force an end to the coup, we'd go back to watching TV and complaining to our co-workers in no time, and the coup would be fait accompli.
Vice-Emperor Cheney, of course, is temprementally inclined to violence, but i don't see that working out badly for the administration either. Early protest would be low number, low organization, and if you rounded them all up and shipped them off to gitmo, you'd scare a lot of people who would otherwise be second-round protesters. You might have to round up a second group as well, but chances are they'd be few as well, and after that, you've got most of the hard-core protester types, and the sheeple? baaaaa.
The other option for after a coup is similar to what happened in 2000 with Gore: some amount of bitching, but no real action, and everyone watches TV and bitches to their friends, but the coup basically solidifies without real opposition. Very possible, i think. Americans don't organize into street-mobs easily, especially over shit like this. Too many people would be looking for leadership before acting, and the leadership could well be lacking.
So frankly, i think a coup is very possible in this country, especially with media complicity. Which they would have, no doubt. And has Darth Cheney done this analysis? dollars to donuts he has.
If this piece of shit hates America so much, why doesn't he just get the fuck out. Just what we need, President-for-life George Bush, with total power over everything. Look, if we need a leader with total power, it is best we choose somebody more intelligent and less amoral than W.
"Legion of Doom", nah, it's gotta be catchy like, "The Patriot Act", or "No Child Left Behind". The name doesn't have to have anything to do with the goal (see above), but it has to be catchy. How 'bout "Legion of Truth"? You're not against truth are you? "Lock up any who oppose the Legion of Truth! "
Scariest thing is James Woolsly is on the board of directors. Former Head of the CIA Woolsly. National Radio host Laura Ingram. Gee can’t imagine why there are so many conspiracy theories. Maybe it’s because of all the G-Damned conspiracies.
Julius Ceasar did not slaughter all the gauls he played them against each other all the time. This person knows nothing about history. I’m no christian but what kinda christian thinks Rome was something to yearn for. Besides that Julius Ceasar was more than likely not hated like Bush.
You know we should really start stock piling weopons and ammo at this point. It is very frustrating to know this kind of news and not know what to do. Write your elected officials what a joke. The democrates have been consistantly disappointing.
I meet people almost everyday that are hardcore conservatives and they do not even know it. Imagine if there was no internet… anyway. One last thing check out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/
d..........de_1.shtml
They are available on google video.
Anonymous: bad link above... :-(
I don't really think this wet dream would come true-- it couldn't get that far (the fact that this website pulled this article down shows to a certain degree that even they know the limits of what Americans will think is acceptable-- that kind of blatant totalitarianism is just too heavy-handed, something more subtle & insidious is required).
That being said, if it WERE to happen, as terrible as it would be, it would finally reveal to everyone what these ba$tards are REALLY about. Remember the Selma to Montgomery march in 1965? Well, this could be a LOT worse than that, but it may simply be necessary. (taking up arms ain't going to cut it, we have to show America & the world what sort of atrocities these people are really capable of)
All I'm saying is, if they go for a blatant power grab like that, then they've this just means their game will be up a lot quicker than if they did it in the more subtle insidious way they are going right now.
But that's probably not how this is going to go down. We'll have creeping fascism instead of an out-and-out coup.
Hail Bush... Or to hail with Bush.
This was a great and scary read. Thank you.
Bring it on, you whinging Pom! Here's a little taste of what happens when you muck around with that democracy you so despise:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/...000/
4318021.stm
Show your ugly face for what it really is. Maybe its what America needs to wake the F- up...
That guy can go fuck himself.
"For the record, I don't think Atkinson's scenario is likely. I think the American people will wise up soon and elect President Giuliani in 2008 to continue building upon the solid foundations of American greatness laid by President Bush."
What "nabalzbbfr" is threatening here is that unless we elect another Republican to the White House in '08, the "real" Americans known as the political right should overthrow the government and install a fascist dictatorship, kill the dissidents (liberals), and invade/destroy any nation that opposes it. Did I miss anything?
If they're scrubbing the nastier articles, then the internets are our friends!
as long as we're wiping undesirables off the face of the earth, let's start with these primitive fucks.
The following comment needs repeating, as it ties all the various strings together quite nicely:
After reading this, does anyone doubt that the wingnuts in the White House, with such ardent and insane backers, are on the brink of declaring MARTIAL LAW, and ditching our democracy???
Immediately after getting re-elected in 2004, Bush and his wingnuts pals set in motion their plans for seizing permanent power, with Alberto Gonzales doing what he's been doing at the Justice Department an important part.
But let's not forget the secret warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens, U.S. spy satellites training their spy cameras on U.S. soil, large amounts of taxpayer money going around the nation to police departments and DHS centers to buy their loyalty, the building of $385 million worth of secret detention centers due for completion by the end of this year, DHS setting up a TIPS program from which to pay informers who spy on and turn in other citizens, pastors being recruited into "Clergy Response Teams" to mobilize in case of martial law, Bush executive orders stating he'll "consult" with Congress and the Supreme Court "if" he declares martial law following a national emergency (and solely based on his judgment), the overturning of the 1878 Posse Comitas Act and suspension of the habeas corpus right of suspected "enemy combatants" (based solely on Bush arbitrarily deciding who or who isn't an "enemy combatant).
Bush-declared MARTIAL LAW looms, my friends, my fellow patriotic American citizens.
And to hell with Bush being Caesar.
The Oracle | 08.20.07 - 11:42 pm | #
it's a shame we were attacked by terrorists when george "fetal-alcohol retard" bush was president.
then again, if george "fetal-alcohol retard" bush wasn't president, 9/11 WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.
Ya know, after reading an article (by a fellow whose name escapes me) about a NR Alaska cruise and the bloodthirsty crazies aboard...then this.
Are there any comparable stories about lefies (other than the highly legitimate talk of impeachment) and the overthrow of the government?
Pres Directives signed may 9th will do the trick. No shit!!! Really!!! Look it up on Whitehouse.gov.
no one wants to believe me but it's true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Time to wake the fuck up people.!!!!
What's scarier, Atkinson's original essay or nabalzbbfr's support of his premise?
Of course, the irony is that Julius Caesar was the populist whom the aristocrats blocked at every turn. Yeah, there's a role model for conservative thinking!
And Augustus Caesar rose to power by killing off all the opposition, something that JC didn't do -- to his credit and his demise.
And it does sounds as though nabalzbbfr is threatening us -- if we don't elect Giuliani, well, then the hell with democracy.
Sargasso.nl has the FSM article archived here:
http://www.sargasso.nl/wp-conten...2007/08/
fsm.jpg
I can now go to bed tonight knowing I've read the work of the craziest MF on the planet. I'm too stunned to say anything else.
While I'm all for being vigilant in the protection of democracy, I don't believe there is any threat of Bush becoming dictator. Even assuming that is something that he desires - which is certainly within the realm of possibility - he would need the support of the military. Remember, it was not Caesar who conquered the Gauls, it was his legions. Likewise, it was his legions who installed him, with his consent and at his direction, of course, as Emperor. The modern American military is the most professional, well-educated military the world has ever seen. It's totally unrealistic to assume that they would acqueisce with a Bush-led coupe. Caesar's legions acquiesced because it was in their interests to do so. They saw him as their defender and, more importantly, their provider. The fate and fortune of the legions was dependent on Caesar's personal success. This is certainly not the case with the American military.
That link to it doesn't work...has it been scrubbed from the Google cache as well? Down the Memory Hole?
So much for Mein Kampf being the most infuckingsane thing I've ever read.
Legion of Doom sounds about right.
He did get one thing right:
He was sworn in for a second term on January 20, 2005 after being chosen by the majority of citizens in America to be president.
He then goes on to say that Democracies make mistakes because the Majority may decide what is popular and not what is wise.
Yep, that was the last presidential election all right (and even then they had to pad the results to make it look good).
RE: http://www.sargasso.nl/wp-conten...2007/08/
fsm.jpg
A screenshot of the original article (thx, Downriver Gal)... notice near the bottom of the article there appears to be a link on "'President-for-Life' Bush"... does anyone know what that hyperlink went to I wonder?
Unfortunately, the last time the Internet Archive saved this batshit crazy site was May 17, so the essay won't be found there.
However, you can find it here: http://tinyurl.com/yuywrr.
Let this be a lesson to all of us: don't rely on Google to keep things in the cache. Make liberal use (snicker) of screen grabs and the web archive function. Preferably, before you go trumpeting your discoveries all over the Intert00bs.
Wow, as Sarcastro said, the
But still, the historical ignorance on display in this piece is mind-boggling.
Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter...
Not really. Caeser pacified Gaul by enfranchising and romanizing its leaders. The idea that he depopulated the entirety of what is now France, much less repopulated it with Italians, is absurdly stupid.
"Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter;"
Not only did he not mass-slaughter the Gauls (he conquered by mostly forging alliances with Gaullish aristocrats), he had a homosexual affair with a Gaullish prince Nicomedes (according to Suetonius). Queen of Bithynia, Caesar's troops called him.
Perhaps the wingnuts want Shrub to do similar man-to-man diplomacy?
Wow, as Sarcastro said, the ignorance on display is jaw-dropping.
viz: "Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter;"
Not only did Caesar not mass-slaughter the Gauls (he conquered by mostly forging alliances with Gaullish aristocrats), he had a homosexual affair with a Gaullish prince Nicomedes (according to Suetonius). Queen of Bithynia, Caesar's troops called him.
Perhaps the wingnuts want Shrub to do similar man-to-man diplomacy?
The Bush as Caesar article is rather silly, perhaps even ironic; it does not represents the thinking of any substantial number of people (however the wingnut DOES make a important point, however obvious: democracy does not equal political perfection). So the typical stoner DNC-o-Crat response is a typical hysterical overreaction. But hysteria and paranoia are Miss D's bread and butter (it could like f-n happen dude, er dude-ettes, raht here in River citay, yada yada yada).
Judean People's Front--
SPLITTER!!!
Hi! Just wanted you to know the "posterity is" link doesn't seem to retrieve the cache. But this link will if you want to substitute it:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=c...clnk&cd=1&
gl=us
Daddy, I don't like democracy. It's really hard!
Daddy, I gave all my freedoms to a big strong man and now he won't give them back, and he's starting to touch me in a bad way!
Daddy, where's my First Amendment?
It seems that having a massive technological advantage militarily does absolutely nothing to make for better or more moral people. We are still stuck with "nuke 'em till they glow and let God sort 'em out".
Its funny when Steven Colbert does it... but this guy... not so much.
I read a truly horrifying quote presumably from some business leader who was advocating the return of slavery because business owners would be more likely to "take care of" their workers if they were in fact, property. Of course it generated the obligatory outrage and was circulated widely (by myself, among others.)
The upshot? It turned out to be a hoax. D'Oh! Now, this may not be, but let's not rush to judgment. It might have been written with tongue planted very firmly in cheek.
Assuming this wasn't posted on the Family Security website as a joke, It shows that many on the right hate the very notion of "democracy." Much less, "logic", reason, or "compassion".
Just did a google search for Philip Atkinson. The article was REAL!!!
-Selections from the fray- by Jill Bains
"The other option for after a coup is similar to what happened in 2000 with Gore: some amount of bitching,... but the coup basically solidifies without real opposition. ... Americans don't organize into street-mobs easily..." -(Zenji)
-Precisely.
The Gore 2000 incident let the ruling classes know just how easy it would all be; they knew it had already happened well before Gore 2000. It was just a little test, to be sure.
Americans had already been living under fascism, it is that no one had told them yet.
Also, Americans organizing into street groupings, would more than likely kill off each other, rather than the plutocrats and fascists.
".. and with the creation of large, privately funded military forces (a la Blackwater), we are progressing to the next step in the Empire model, armies beholden to the leader/corporation, not the state..." -(Fraud Guy)
-Excellent. Not much more need be said.
You see, because if it has gone this far, it has fundamentally gone all the way.
Fascism has always had an event horizon; liberalism has never allowed itself one.
For that would require the self immolation of its dreadful stupidity.
Check this link,( http://www.ourcivilisation.com/a....com/
author.htm ) read the first few paragraphs... If I have the right Philip Atkinson bio, then it sheds some light on how one can develop the sort of world view displayed in his essay.. its (the essay) some of the craziest, irrational, fear-inspired, rediculous nonsense I've ever read. It can't be understated how dangerous it is to have people in power with this sort of mindset. Notice the failure to acknowledge that Iraq was not the menace it was assumed to be, or better yet, sold as? "The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead." ?!??!!? What the #%*K??
All of the "lumineries" on their board need to be called out on their association with these people, repeatedly and in public.
For the record, I believe that there is a very real and very dangerous, ever-growing threat in Islamic radicalism - no doubt about it - it has to be taken on bravely, ferociously, relentlessly, but above all WISELY!!!! If people like the gentleman who wrote the essay continue to gain and hold power, our country (and possibly the planet, too) will be unrecognizeable in our lifetimes. They are un-American pants-peeing lunatics, and also a very real threat to this nation. Just my humble opinion.
Some of the comments on here are a mirror image of comments I saw in various places during the Clinton administration about how Clinton would find some reason to declare martial law so he wouldn't have to leave office, followed by all the patriots being rounded up. They're about as credible.
I...I...am stunned. The stupid...it hurts.
Philip Atkinson is a pseudonym for Adam Yoshida, right?
This rage at President Bush is an inevitable result of the system of government demanded by the people, which is Democracy.
once again, Dear Leader cannot fail, he can only be failed.
In this case, Democracy has failed Dear Leader, the ignorant masses cannot recognize the genius and wise leadership of Dear Leader, therefore Democracy must be tossed on the scrap heap of history.
While democratic government is better than dictatorships and theocracies, it has its pitfalls. FSM Contributing Editor Philip Atkinson describes some of the difficulties facing President Bush today.
ow... my brain hurts...
The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life.
violent revolution is not a cowardly act.
and, Bush would not need to use nukes to deserve this fate.
goddamn. I would love to find this Atkinson and punch him out.
If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results
Ooh! Can't you just picture it - like a whole new Oklahoma Land Rush!
I was truly, fully and absolutely mortified to the point of nausea upon reading this. A sad and terrible article is what this truly is. This is absurd to the point of tears and the only people that I can imagine taking this as a good idea are only the few, the cruel and the absolutely hopping mad. I have few other words to describe my absolute outrage and horror for this is beyond even comic book super-villainy. Then again, what do I know, I’m just a crazy dirty liberal hippie after all. I guess I’m not smart enough to know that the only way to save the world entails mass genocide and turning this country into a world-conquering empire.
Unbelievable...
The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead.
I haven't heard a statement like that since the Nuremberg trials. Wow, what a schmo!
"Some of the comments on here are a mirror image of comments I saw in various places during the Clinton administration about how Clinton would find some reason to declare martial law so he wouldn't have to leave office, followed by all the patriots being rounded up. They're about as credible."
You're right about the paranoia from the Right during the Clinton years. I think the key difference here, however, is that I don't recall anyone on the Left actually advocating such a thing.
Sounds like a recipe for civil war.
Please tell me this is lifted from The Onion. Pleeeeeeaaaaazzzzzzeeee tell me that, Digs.
Flying. H. Spaghetti. Monster.
I hope this is a hoax.
I wrote above that a Hitler could take over in America. I would like to clarify that 1) I don't think that's particulary likely, and 2) it would be bad.
Bengt Larsson, Obama also wants to increase military spending and increasing the size of the armed forces by 65,000. That's one of many reasons why I say that if you expect a Democratic president to make everything better, you're in for a colossal disappointment. Incrementally better just isn't going to cut it. We're screwed.
Gus | 08.21.07 - 11:51 am | #
I think the Presidential election is about not making things incrementally worse. I think you would be better off with Obama or any of the Democratic candidates.
I recall a clip of Bush "joking" that things would be so much easier if he were a Dictator. Who knew?
I found this nut's email address on the website and couldn't resist sending this:
"I just read your amazing piece about the dangers of democracy. At first I thought it was a spoof, an over-the-top piece of tongue-in-cheek satire. But it seems you are serious about this, so I can only conclude that you are an idiot and a dangerous maniac. I think you should report back to the asylum now."
Dear Mr. I.B.Woodpecker, as much as you would like to think this is a hoax, I suspect it is a "trial balloon", and a "preliminary softening-up" of the mass-mind for more such sentiments expressed in other venues. So no, it is not a hoax.
Someone upthread asked essentially:
how do we get these people away from power? I suspect the only way to do that is to get power away from them. In other words, we can do nothing about the power-positions they hold in
society. What we can do is begin draining the power out of those positions. We can do that in a million little steps. Every dollar spent paying an American Citizen bike-repair-shop owner to fix my old second-hand bike is a dollar I did not
spend on an imported semi-slave labor
bike from China. For example.
I'm so far to the left that I'm not even on the chart, but I believe that this is the reason we should all be constantly vigilant when it comes to the Bill of Rights-- yes even, and especially, the second amendment if these wankers are serious, which I believe they are.
I never believed somebody could actually write about this...
So there is pure evil in some hearts.
I know i'm only an ignorant 'f'rner' and i could be wrong, but after Julius Caesar conquered Gaul and used his 'newfound popularity with the military' to 'end the civil chaos', wasn't he assassinated? and didn't this lead to more civil chaos, and eventually a civil war that spanned the Mediteraenean between Octavian (Augustus) and Marc Antony?
(Oh, and as a ps to these 'God fearing' ultra conservatives, just remember one litle thing before you exhault the virtues of the Roman
Empire,,didn't they nail some important guy from your peaceloving religion to a tree?)
Seems that google cache link no longer works....
WTF is up with THAT?
I was under the impression that good leaders could make a wise idea popular and leaders unable to convince a majority were wise enough to question whether their idea was a good one.
.
I hope someone took a screen shot. It's now gone from the cache.
Holy shit, Batman, I smell someone being punk'd. Don't I? Please tell me that's all this is...
On one side of my otherwise rational brain, I say no way. The other side screams at me to not be naive.
omfg.
I created a .pdf from this link:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=c...=c...clnk&cd=1&
gl=us
Also sent it in to www.talkingpointsmemo.com
They have a documents archive where they stash stuff like this in case it disappears.
"I was truly, fully and absolutely mortified to the point of nausea upon reading this. A sad and terrible article is what this truly is." -(Eric)
Whether this article is a hoax or not is irrelevant; the fact that so many have responded to it in a similar way is what is of importance. This is because it has been deemed as vaguely 'credible.'
Analogous leftist articles would gather little play because most of you would not know how to recognize them: You are simply more conversant with right wing fantasy, for the simple reason it is far more likely to actually convert itself into reality.
That the rightist vision is so easily recognized is proof that some of it is already here, and has been here, all along the way-existing just beneath the surface.
Why is that?
It is because that vision is truly American.
As familiar as apple pie and Lindsay Lohan.
It is 'mortifying' then, not because it is shocking, but because it isn't shocking.
That you are able to recognize its truth so easily that you become quickly nauseous, is that it has always pre-existed in yourselves.
Its been there all time.
And it is sickening to be reminded that it has.
It's obviously a joke.
Nope. It's for real, I'm afraid. A simple Google search and clicking the "I Feel Lucky" button produced this version, on Gnn's website, reproduced three days before Digby wrote this post.
And here's a screengrab of the original article on the original site (click to enlarge). Seems the FSM is a front organization that's actually populated by the likes of Cheney and all sorts of Bush loyalists. In other words, all the President's men is endorsing him to be dictator for life.
You are a total fucking douche bag.
So the methods that Saddam Hussein used to obtain and maintain power in Iraq are the same methods that this guy is advocating Bush uses to maintain power in the US, if not the whole world. And he calls this honorable. That is one sad man.
So when can we start feeding Christians? Oh yeah, and how about the orgies?
Atkinson is one very sick fuck.
Bring it on Phil. I'd love a chance to put my boot in your ass, you anti-American swine.
I wish to share a little something I found on Atkinson's site. Quoted in full, for Posterity's sake.
The Importance And Method Of Teaching Children Morality
How A Civilization Keeps Itself Alive
Civilization is a shared understanding, and the only way a civilization can maintain this understanding from generation to generation is by that understanding being passed from parent to child, which is how a civilization keeps itself alive.
Importance Of Early Infantile Experience
The nature of an understanding depends upon its founding values, which makes morality (the actual values adopted) the vital concern for parents, with the early experiences of infancy the most critical for the formation of understanding in a child. This means that the lessons taught to the infant during the first weeks or months of its existence are the most important, as every subsequent value must reflect those values already adopted by the maturing mind of the person. For once the foundation of values is set, it is for life, with the values taught during child rearing becoming a permanent part of the adult's understanding. (See What Decides A Person To Be Moral Or Immoral)
Morality Must Be Imbued By Fear Of Authority
As reason can only be employed when morality is established, teaching children morality must be by the clear demonstration of right from wrong by the unquestioned implementation of parental discipline: the swift punishment of naughty children—a correction that must be feared to be effective.
Unquestioning Obedience Of Authority An Essential Lesson
Even after the age of seven years of age, when the child can reason, instruction must be continued without explanation, as unquestioning obedience to authority is one of the requirements of a dutiful citizen.
Continuation Of Tradition
The basic values and knowledge that are the foundation of Tradition—those beliefs that are implicit in the customs, manners, language, and laws of the community—must be taught in the same unexplained way; not just to reinforce the notion of the need for unquestioning obedience, but also because these beliefs are an essential part of communal understanding and so must be adopted by all citizens. Observe, these beliefs were created by the genius of communal understanding, which is superior to each citizen's comprehension, so disqualifying any individual from being able to properly judge the reasons behind such beliefs. Hence it is not just the child's duty to adopt these beliefs without question, but it is the parent's duty to impose them without explanation.
Consequences Of Failure
If parents fail to teach their offspring the basic morality and knowledge that are the foundation of the tradition of the community, then the resulting adult will fail to become a useful citizen, but will become a problem citizen—an individual with an understanding different and incompatible to the shared understanding that is the community. Once such problem citizens become sufficient in numbers then the community must decay until it finally dissolves.(See the law of reverse civilization).
This is a usage of the term, "morality," that renders the term meaningless.
In no way is individual moral consciousness compatible with unquestioning obedience to authority.
I believe the Holocaust is one of the more recent underlinings of that point.
"I was just following orders," a refrain often heard at Nuremberg, was not considered a defense.
But those truly responsible were never tried at Nuremberg, having distanced themselves from the slaughter with useful tools brainwashed into obedience from childhood.
The book "Soul Murder" is a fascinating insight into the the consequences of this sort of child rearing.
This sounds like something out of the Third Reich. Truly a scary thought that this disturbed person is given a soap box by the right-wing nutjobs.
The guy misses the most obvious point - if a good leader needs to make an unpopular decision that will hurt them in the polls...then they need to make the unpopular decision and face the music.
Have people forgotten what leadership is? Is there no responsibility? Likely not as when a party goes out of power they only look about 10 - 20 percent of their jobs anyway (not bad odds, and with the private sector who cares - take 10 years and come back on the next cycle).
1st EMAIL:
Dear Philip Atkinson,
So, you wished to see President Bush use his nuclear weapons to clear
Iraq
of Arabs and replenish that land with Americans?
Well, you are NOT an American, but why don't YOU relocate to Baghdad
after
the nuclear blasts. But I would strongly advise you not to drink the
water.
Yours sincerely,
Richard M. Nixon (Tricky Dicky).
REPLY:
It is not a rebuttal of an argument to make inane
remarks.
To refute an argument you must point out where the presumptions are
wrong or
the logic is in error.
911, the attack on the World trade centre by a barbarian war band, was
predicted in 1952 by professor Arnold Toynbee in " A Study Of History".
The
work was a study of civilizations and revealed that Western
Civilization was
declining. This meant that as EVERY previous declining civilization was
attacked and destroyed by barbarian war-bands, our civilization would
be
attacked by barbarian war bands until destroyed.
This raises two significant problems:
1/ Our civilization is declining, a notion that is not generally
understood
but is explained at www.ourcivilisation.com.
2/ How do you defend yourself against barbarian war bands armed with
nuclear
weapons? What should America do if New York disappears in a mushroom
cloud,
and Al Qaeda, or whoever, makes odious demands that must be met if
Chicago
is not to be next?
What do you recommend America does to deal with these two problems?
I have been in contact with this lunatic. The post above and this one are the results of that contact. This lunatic is actually very dedicated to his cause. His email address is on his website.
This is the second email I sent him.
2nd EMAIL:
It is not a rebuttal of an argument to make inane remarks.
I did not intend my remarks to be "inane". My original correspondence was an attempt at sarcasm. I was considering the practicality of your suggestion of first blasting Iraq with nuclear weapons, until they were all dead, and then replenishing a radioactive area with Americans. Do you think that many Americans would volunteer to emigrate to a radioactive area? Also, in that scenario (and let me suggest that instead of "nukes" the military were to use only "daisy cutters" and "MOABS", which are the highest-yield ordinance weapons beneath "nukes", but nevertheless depopulated Iraq, what would be the daily lot of any people "injected" into thst country, if not eternal war with the other Arabs and Muslims of the region, if not the troubles of Israel magnified? I suppose your solution would be to simply eradicate such neighbours also?
To refute an argument you must point out where the presumptions are wrong or the logic is in error.
So you are saying that any political thesis can only be refuted on logical, or accuracy grounds. So this is the "Machiavellian" philosophy, in that all political considerations are matters of logic mixed with veracity, with no moral aspect impinging the implementation of the policy results of this logic? Foreign policy, and military affairs are to be conducted on a strictly "logical" imperative, bound by nothing except the defence interests of the United States, and also with the United States exercising its military power to preclude any other nation from practising likewise, since you wish to see President Bush become "Ruler of the World".
In this regard, could you also elaborate somewhat on how you would envision President Bush becoming the actual "Ruler of the World"? What would be the actual mechanism by which this is to be achieved? Is it simply by employing nuclear weapons against nations who refuse, until they accept, or does the process incude negotiation at any juncture? In my view, it has always been quite logical to assume that there would eventually be a world structure of government, however it arose, and whatever its composition and powers. My concern is that if it is to be by conquest, as you and many others heavily imply that it should, that it would inevitably prove to be the very world of terrorist mushroom clouds you profess to abhor. I think I am entitled to infer from your writing, and I have read a number of your "essays", that you clearly do not believe in the "micro-management" of such matters, and you believe that a "strong resolve, with bold and decisive action" is required to settle these types of issues.
In seeking to become World Ruler, what should be the response of President Bush, and the United States, in the event that a nation such as Russia were to insist that they wished to continue without his rule over their country, and were prepared to use their own nuclear weapons on any country that wanted to dispute their right to do so? Should World Ruler Bush then accept a "renegade" Russia standing in defiance of his global rule, or engage in a nuclear exchange?
I do not believe these matters are academic. I strongly believe that use of nuclear weapons is relatively imminent, and will occur within a minimum distance of the next five years.
I have studied various of a number of "out-lining" documents of the neoconservative philosophy. I have equally studied various leaked documents of the Chinese military, and on Russia. Simply put, I have made a broad study of the international scene with regards to potential futue military conflicts. I am opposed to much of the neocon agenda, but I am equally opposed to the agendas of many other important players. The neocons, at least, proffer some degree of considered argument on how to achieve hegemony. You offer no solution other than bombing and genocide as "policy". I am not suggesting that bombing and genocide has not been the stark policy of many world powers, but you are proffering this and this alone as the means of obtaining "full-spectrum dominance".
911, the attack on the World trade centre by a barbarian war band, was predicted in 1952 by professor Arnold Toynbee in " A Study Of History". The work was a study of civilizations and revealed that Western Civilization was declining. This meant that as EVERY previous declining civilization was attacked and destroyed by barbarian war-bands, our civilization would be attacked by barbarian war bands until destroyed.
Firstly, your analysis is quite sweeping, and emcompasses EVERY previous civilization (by "civilization", I think, in this regard, you also incude the ancient and more recent empires), and assumes the attacks by "barbarian war-bands" are all and equally comparable within your anaylses, and you go much further, in heavily implying that there is a generic solution to this historically routine endgame of a civilization, an let us accept that what is strongly advocated in your original article (the aspect I wish to address) is pre-emptive action to forestall either the attacks, or the effects of the attacks, of the "barbarian war-bands".
Let us first consider the full implications of the first part of your statement. Specifically, what, in your personal opinion, were the defects in US intelligence, air-defence, and radar systems, etc, that led to their circumvention by a "barbarian war band', armed only with "stanley knives"?
This raises two significant problems:
1/ Our civilization is declining, a notion that is not generally understood but is explained at www.ourcivilisation.com.
"A notion that is not generally understood"? Oh, really? By whom is it not understood? You are offering, as serious argument, that it is simply not generally understood that our civilization is in decline? Granted, I'll concede that there are people who do not understand that our civilization is declining, but I should think this would be overlooked only by those very forces who are responsible for its decline. Do you accept that recent and continuing large influxes of illegal immigrants into the United States is a contributory factor to America's continuing civil decline? Do you not concede that actively attempting to secure those borders would contribute to the solution of this? What is your opinion on why the borders are poorly defended, especially in light of your concern over the terrorist threat. If a terrorist wanted to perpetrate outrage within the United States, his best point of entry would clearly be the southern border.
2/ How do you defend yourself against barbarian war bands armed with nuclear weapons? What should America do if New York disappears in a mushroom cloud, and Al Qaeda, or whoever, makes odious demands that must be met if Chicago is not to be next?
What do you recommend America does to deal with these two problems?
How do you defend yourself against barbarian war bands armed with nuclear weapons? This would depend on a number of factors:
a). What delivery system carries the nuclear weapon (missile, aircraft, ship, manual placement)?
b). Where did these "barbarian war bands" obtain these nuclear weapons, since it is not possible for "barbarian war bands" to develop and manaufacture them?
If the delivery system were to be a missile, then defence would have to be via the then prevailing mechanisms established to intercept and destroy it at the safest possible distance from the population (and since you and I cannot possibly know what that system would be there is no point in speculating upon it).. If the delivery system is by aircraft, then quite simply, by the time it was dropped and detonated it would be too late. I am thinking here not of a military aircraft of a state, but a private or commercial aircraft granted entry to US airspace in the normal manner, but containing a terrorist nuke. What should be done in this event? I see no point in speculating on that matter. The authorities in charge at that time would make the decision, and we would learn about it.
You asked the question, "What should America do about these two problems?", but it is glaring that you have proffered no answer to this yourself. The issue of a "barbarian war band" obtaining (since they cannot manufacture) a nuclear weapon and detonating it within the United States, is not solved by annihilation of the Iraqi people. You and I must accept that the scenario of a terrorist group, or unhinged individual coming into possession of a nuclear bomb is only possible with the assistance of a state (nation). A nation who wished to see the United States suffer such an attack would deliver such a weapon to the terrorist(s), and the terrorist would attemp to get into US territory. In fact, the easiest way to do this would be to place it within a cargo ship container and detonate it at a US port. In any event, we must regrettably accept that there is nothing the United States, or any other nation, can do to completely prevent acts of terrorism. Anyone, who has the three factors of initiative, means, and opportunity, can commit acts of terrorism, especially where such a person does not care if the act of terrorism is to cost their own life. This is essentially no different to the Japanese "kamikaze" pilots of the second World War.
In the event of the manual placing of a nuclear bomb within the United States, there is nothing that can be done to prevent this, and you must accept this fact. Getting a nuclear weapon into the United States, one one has bee obtained, would be as simple as driving a truck. So essentially, there is no defence against a terrorist nuclear bomb, given t
Crackpot.
Thank you! Thank you!
I had read the original article, but, as you say, FSM is doing an incredible job erasing this story. I'll print your copy before "They" get this one too.
This author is just a talking head who confirms that the greatest problem that confronts the destiny of humankind is individual conscience. However, even if humankind can arrive at this conclusion, they will still be trapped in a dilemma because even though the acts of good and evil are opposites, only reality and circumstance will determine what is right and wrong in the eyes of the beholder. Such is life and the consequences of free will.
2 Visitors Online
Commenting by HaloScan
