If he can't even win his own seat then how can he expect to become the next PC leader? Not gonna happen.
I guess Norris would know how disillusioned Edmontonians were with the PC party in the last election when almost all of them lost their seats.
That's first hand political insight that would serve the new leader well, in my opinion.
Much more so than someone who has been an armchair quarterback from the sidelines for the most part like Dinning, Morton and McPherson.
Thoery only sounds good until reality gets in the way.
How can he even ask us to vote for him when he can't keep his own seat?
Allie because losing your seat is the first step towards understanding that our party is vulnerable.
Does Dave realize we are vulnerable?
Does Dave realize that he dropped more votes in the last election than Mark did?
Throughout this province we have a bunch of lazy, almost arrogant MLAs that think that winning the nomination is the only fight they will ever have. They think the opposition will forever remain lazy and ineffectual.
THEY WON'T!
And if the opposition ever picks up some talent and some campaigning skill than another 20 or more PC MLAs will experience what Mark experienced and we won't be government.
Every other leadership candidate in this race has yet to acknowledge that if we don't get this renewal right we could be in real trouble.
So having lost his seat is a valuable insight not a fatal flaw.
Vitor, I am a member of a party who needs to elect a leader who can and will win us the next election (and the one after that).
I understand your support of Mark, and I appreciate the lengths that you will go to prove his attributes, thats fair - and expected. I don't have a very good personal history with Mark, but even if I had never met him I would still come back to the same question. My party means a lot to me.
And let me say, if he wins, I hope you are right - I will even hold you to it.
Allie, by how many votes did Dave win that election? You'll find by about 10 times less than usual and not to mention we lost 11 seats, mainly in Edmonton, because Dave and others in our government had no Plan, No vision and ran an election about nothing. Why isn't Dave taking credit for that?
I want a leader who can bring PCs back in Edmonton while holding onto Calgary. Jim Dinning can't do that, Dave can't win anything but Edmonton Whitemud and it certainly isn't Ted.
I want a leader who knows how fragile our political success is, and that we do not have the right to govern. We have to earn it.
As my parting comments, how many times did Dave have to run to win his seat for the first time? I think you'll find yourself a hypocrit once you find out.
Dave ran for the nomination once unsucessfully, and then won the nomination in 1993 but lost that election. He won both the nomination and seat since then. In my world, winning is winning - even by one vote. Dave knows that goal of winning is only met by working hard.
What was your point again? Oh yeah the party ran a sucky campaign. Tell me about it - man did it hurt. That wasn't Dave's or Marks fault... but in my world preception is everything and Mark was the one who lost his seat.
It might be your opinion that Dave couldn't carry Edmonton but I do disagree with you - I think he can deliver the province. I agree with your statement "I want a leader who knows how fragile our political success is, and that we do not have the right to govern. We have to earn it." Dave is the only Candidate I have ever heard ask people for their votes, and mean it.
Hey, I'm a real conservative (you know it to be true) and I have many like-friends that are working for Jim. We are not disparaging of 'real' conservatives.
Ted might not (big might) but he will split the caucus. Let's face it, the MLAs that work with him now are not supporting him for a reason. They don't see him as their leader.
I hope Dave and Mark do well and that we have all sold more memberships than I am hearing about. We will know on Saturday, good luck.
Vitor, I think Ted has realized we have a problem within our party.
MLA's who are supporting other candidates are off-base with where Albertans want them to go. I think they're about to get a very serious reality check.
All conservatives welcome - others need not apply.
Allie, Just go take your rude remarks (immediately following the opening endorsement of someone's own blog for a highly capable and respected past economic development minister, that Art Smith said was the best ever) and go look at history. First the history of your own candidate, Dave "Ms Piggy on Steroids" and his own past defeats, his own "gee joe (who) clark, can i tag along?", his own "strutting while sitting" with the "conceit talk down to you geek voice" and then go and look how many times Benjamin Disraeli lost his own seat ....not to mention Winston. So there, "acid rain" , Norris ain't even started yet. He's a Leader as opposed to a Muppet.
hey Vitor,
I think a number of the candidates realize that there are problems with the parties current state of affairs and that realization isn't unique to Mark Norris. I have no problem with Norris but he seems like the Tony Clement candidate this time around. He has some good things to say, but its difficult to take a pledge to deliver the province to the PC party seriously when he can't deliver his own riding.
One can attribute his reasons for losing to Klein or others in the party that are of a more reddish hue. On the other hand if Norris really had what it takes, one would think he could overcome that problem in his own backyard. Furthermore, claiming he himself could retake a number of the Edmonton ridings is rather problematic. Alot of the ridings in Edmonton and Calgary where lost due to vote splitting with the Alberta Alliance.
Supporters of the Alberta Alliance were Conservative voters who went and registered their displeasure with the directionless red toryism of the party by voting for the Alberta Alliance. That party accounted for as I recall around 10% of the popular vote, which was the differential between the PC Party's vote share last election and the most recent one. Is Jim Dinning, Alberta's Paul Martin going to bring those voters back? Is Mark Norris? No and doubtful. Morton would bring 90% of those voters back to the party and the swing from AA to PC would return a number of ridings back to the fold.
As for the Red Tories, they always want to hold any Conservative party hostage. However, they're a small minority of the party and they've essentially dominated it for the last few elections and look where that got the PCs. Truthfully, if the opposition wasn't incompetent I'm rather sure the PCs would have lost the last election. Red Toryism is out of touch with the majority of the party and its resulted in the party moving away from its base and its voters. No one votes Progressive Conservative for support for the arts, culture and big government. The problem with the PC Party is it lost contact with its grassroots and its more the straying of the much more numerous real/normal/blue conservatives that one needs to concern oneself with.
I'd encourage you to support Morton or at least Stelmach or Olberg on the second ballot presuming we don't get stuck with Dinning. I tend to think all of those candidates bring more to the table and their level of support is more likely to elevate them to the second ballot.
- Chris
Looking out the window at this weather I am starting to wonder how much of an impact it is going to have on our vote in a couple of days - candidates with rural support might have a real issue - and even in urban areas people are going to think of waiting for the second ballot.
Vitor, if you think the party risks more atrition under Dinning than Morton I think you are sadly mistaken. Only time will tell, I suppose.
Blake, the party already lost its core base of voters last election due to rampant redtoryism.
Jim Dinning = Paul Martin --Hello, Alberta Alliance (again!)
Allie is right about poor weather tending to depress the volume of voting. Other factors, though, are likely to be more important: GOTV organization, location of polling station relative to voter densities (not beyond mischief-making -- as the Advance Polls fiasco suggests), and level of commitment. Each of these split differently for different candidates hoping for rural votes. For example (very roughly) I suspect the commitment factor does not favour Jim Dinning. I suspect the GOTV factor will favour Norris when compared to Stelmach. I suspect weird polling locations in the various districts will hamper several candidates. Weather will be the excuse when not already fiercely committed to a candidate or when faced with a long drive to a polling station instead of chores and grocery shopping in town on the Saturday.
Well Blake I'd probably disagree that atrition is not a serious issue to consider with Dinning. Dinning is basically a liberal masquerading as a Tory. He donated money to Paul Martin, and he's supported by a former leader of the provincial Liberal Party. His policy perscriptions or lack there of seem to channel Paul Martin, sadly its the Paul Martin after his 2001 political expiration date.
Tens of thousands of Conservative voters in Alberta stayed home in the last election, and tens of thousands more voted for the Alberta Alliance as they were unhappy with the directionless Liberal-lite policies that Klein adapted in his latter years. Continuing down the same path or arguably worsening that path with the introduction of Dinning would only cause more conservative supporters to disengage from the party of seek a political home elsewhere.
Renewal is the antithesis of staying the course and a rejection of the status quo. Dinning is the status quo which being deemed unacceptable will be rejected by many supporters of the party in one way or another.
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