Farms don't need to break minimum wage laws when hiring illegals. While they must still pay 5.15 per hour, they are exempt from paying overtime pay to agricultural workers. Farms don't actually hire workers to avoid protections, at least not in CA, don't forget that all farms have to deal with Cesar Chavez' union legacy. The UFW doesn't protect just domestic workers, it fights for illegals as well.
I used to work for a large payroll corporation and you could "tell" who was hiring lots of illegals. All the checks were exactly minimum wage for 40 hours or 60 hours of work. It was amazing that the primary businesses who did this were laundries and farms. Hmmm....oh, and only the farms paid 60 hours.
Farms do hire illegals, but it has more to do with the $$$ stretching further when the migrant worker goes home than it has to do with violating the minimum wage. As I said, Agricultural businesses don't have to pay overtime.
Well, when we liberals talk about fair trade, this is the sort of thing we're on about -- how going to other countries just so we can pollute more and pay less is wrong.
Unlike some on the left, I don't believe we should ban all businesses that use questionable practices - just make 'em obey the laws. The issues with, say, Wal-Mart, seem to me to be to do with Wal-mart trying to get around the law, rather than the inherent evil of their existence.
But, isn't needing migrant workers to complete work 'white people won't do' a mainstay among those on the left? And it seems logical to me that the reason white people won't do those sorts of jobs is because they enjoy the protections of labor laws.
Then again, C-Jo disagrees and has personal experience to back it up, so there ya go, mebbe.
It isn't only people on the Left who are opposed to abusive labor practices.
I would argue that while LYT and I might disagree what constitutes a "fair wage" in Thailand (it's pretty small), we probably agree that environmental practices should be held to uniform standards (i.e. if you want to sell merchandise in America you must obey American Environmental/Safety standards).
Working class Americans benefit primarily from negotiated employment contracts, supported by laws sure, and not from minimum wage laws (which have debatable benefit and none --even negative effects -- when unions are allowed free resolution rights). Most jobs outside the agricultural that pay minimum wage are small businesses. Wal-Mart's pay may be crap (and it is), and they do seek to manipulate certain laws, but it is higher than minimum wage.
Collective bargaining is a much better tool than the government for wage regulation.
Where the labor laws protect workers is in the area of safety.
Illegal Immigrant means what it says: IMMIGRATING HERE ILLEGALLY. I don't want to hear about anything until someone can tell me why we should do anything but improson htem for cheap labor. I'd like to sneak into a 1st world country and see what happens to me...not France though.
Minimum wage isn't the answer...it just drives manufacturing jobs overseas. The Service indsutry will suck up the min wage hike (which they almost patently do for chain stores, etc) and pass the cost on to the consumer. I'd rather pay more for anything than have illegals here.
This is more than a "moral issue". This is a National Security Issue. Until the INS gets it crap together with a decent computer system that can track folks over extending their VISAs, and until we put sniper nets at the border, nothing will change.
In 1921 my grandfather cmae over from Italy. Stayed 5 years, went back to Italy in 1926. After seeing the writing on the wall of burgeoning Fascism, he retireved the rest of the family (my 2 aunts and uncle) and stayed here permanently, a proud US Citizen. At a time when the US had had its fill of Italian Americans, and at a time when my mother was called "green horne, taking up jobs from americans" during the depression, they persisted, stayed and became successful. My Nunu didn't speak a WORD of ENlgish when he got here. His children all went on to be successfull and ALL of his grandchildren are college educated.
If you want to come here WORK FOR IT, like he did. If you are trying to cheat the system, you aren't the type that I want as a felow citizen, but you could try Frane.
Sorry, but the immigration thing really gets me going.
In the Poeple's REpublic of Mass, the House is acutally debating on whether there should beinstate tuition for illegal immigrants. Am I missing something??? It's like the driver's liscence in Cal for cime-aliens.
I say we all invade Mexico, refuse to speak Spansish, have anchor babies and see how long they can stand it.
Wow, those 2 glasses of wine didn't help....
Whoo. LD's fired up! Woot!
" But, isn't needing migrant workers to complete work 'white people won't do' a mainstay among those on the left? And it seems logical to me that the reason white people won't do those sorts of jobs is because they enjoy the protections of labor laws. "
Not so much needing them. Treating them fairly.
In Michael Moore's The Big One, he tries to persuade Nike CEO Phil Knight that Americans want to make shoes (Knight's rationale for overseas labor is that they don't). He gets lots of people from Flint to say they would, but Knight doesn't change his mind.
Anyway, if Michael Moore represents the hard left (debatable, but OK) , then clearly the hard left does want Americans doing work that currently goes to foreigners.
Well, the anti-Minuteman spokesperson last night seemed to take that route. But then again, I suppose he was hispanic and Moore isn't.
I guess I'm looking for a simple answer when there isn't one.
Truth to be told, I'm sort of glad there isn't, as I mentioned.
And I do agree with you, C-Jo, in regards to collective bargaining. It does seem to do a lot more good than laws, except in regards to safety.
OSHA may make a great deal of red tape, but the stuff it was designed to put a stop to was (and is) horrific...
Actually, low wage jobs are needed by teenagers and entry-level workers. According to the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, low wage jobs help young and entry-level American workers to get training and skills that will eventually provide them with more opportunities later in life.
Hm. Interesting...
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