Alan Moore worked as a retailer, and they made several movies about it?
Grammatik Al | 01.08.05 - 11:13 am | #

oh...so it's not coming out on November 5th...
consider your point--proven (proved?)
george | 01.08.05 - 12:26 pm | #

you're right Dorian--V will almost certainly not stand for a victory in this case...but man--Sin City looks good! I firmly expect it to be the best comic-to-film adaptation ever--precisely because of the visual insanity that seems to worry you!

Dave
David Fiore | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 2:13 pm | #

Hey! I'm an American and I know about Guy Fawes day!

You know, Dorian, the main reason I've never read LOEG is because of the shit-tacular movie. Perhaps I should change my mind re: the comic.

I am so, so scared for "Watchmen".
Novice | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 2:44 pm | #

Novice - read LOEG: the comic has as much to do with the movie as a gourmet meal has with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Dorian - remember the good old days, when movies were made from, like, original ideas?

Somehow, I think this is going to be one of those really iffy movies (and for everyone - November 5th falls on a Saturday, so unless it opens then...)
Gordon | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 3:20 pm | #

"Al"--if that's you Rick, you're darn lucky I bothered to check the ISP # before doing what I usually do with posts like that...
Dorian | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 3:25 pm | #

Yeah, the odds of seeing my favorite comic book moment EVER (V blowing half the city to rubble to the tune of the 1812 Overture) correctly done on the big screen is fading away faster and faster.
Rick! | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 4:09 pm | #

sigh. you're right, Dorian. when you're right, you're right. It's a real shame, too.

As for Watchmen, the *only* way it could ever be successful is if Terry Gilliam did it, and he was given 250 million dollars, a three year film time and a free hand in the editing room. Otherwise, no go.
N | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 5:09 pm | #

If you want to talk about a movie that has nothing to do with the comic it's based off of, take a look at The Mask. Not once did Stanley go on a city wide killing spree in the movie.

That and the character's name is Big Head. But I digress.
David Lawson | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 5:58 pm | #

My question is why did Moore agree to it? He knows what happened to LoEG and From Hell, and V is even more likely to be cut to ribbons for the reasons you stated.

Moore's motives don't compare too favourable to his alter-ego V's.

- Andrew
Andrew Andrew Davison | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 8:15 pm | #

Maybe they'll think that "remember the 5th of November" is a John Lennon refrence.

No they won't.
Ian Brill | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 10:13 pm | #

Andrew, from the little I've read, I think it is more to help out David Lloyd. Moore has given up all his royalties from the movie to the pool for the other creators involved.

As far as the adaptation goes, I agree that it could be dicey. Already I think I've heard that germany wins WWII, which would seem to suggest that England doesn't become oppressive of its own will, which defeats a lot of the purpose of the book and frankly the relavence for our own times. The foreward in the edition I'm reading has Moore railing against the state of England in the 90s and I'm sure he'd feels similarly to a lot of what is going on in the US lately...
Shawn Fumo | Homepage | 01.08.05 - 11:26 pm | #

That "Remember the 5th of November" on the poster is just an epic miscalculation of the audience, that can only be indicative of the movie as a whole. I still say you're wrong on Sin City, but you're dead right on this.

And whoever said Terry Gilliam should've made this film -- hell no, he should be making the Watchmen movie as he planned about, what, 12 years ago?
tomthedog | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 12:16 am | #

Talking of Gilliam on Watchmen is like asking Moore when he will do Watchmen II.
They both seem fed up with people talking about that.

Anyway, Moore doesn't see a cent from those adaptations anymore. I highly doubt his motives are in question.

Shawn, if what you say is true, it's on the same scale as the From Hell movie being about the identity of the Ripper. It's a pity. V could make a good film, theoretically speaking.
François Peneaud | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 1:25 am | #

Already I think I've heard that germany wins WWII, which would seem to suggest that England doesn't become oppressive of its own will [...]

Interestingly enough, this is something you will also regularly see when the "Vendetta" comic is reviewed on the internet. I don't know where people discovered this in the source material, even though the Party resembles the Nazi party maybe a bit too closely (it's the same problem with the Puritans in The Adventures of Luther Arkwright).

However, this change would fit in with what Dorian fears the movie will look like. In this case it would be possible to present V as a saviour of democracy, which has been corrupted by an evil foreign power. Blech!
Björn W. | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 3:45 am | #

Per Bjorn, i suspect that what's going on with this "Nazi Germany won WWII" business in the blurbs about the upcoming movie is just the writers rehashing misinformation gleaned from some of the dimmer reviewers of the comic, to whom "fascist dictatorship in an alternate future" simply equals "Nazi Germany won WWII."

On the other hand, I'm not sure presenting V as a heroic savior of democracy is all that different than what Moore intended at the time. I've long had a problem with the comic because it seems like young Moore was not exactly adverse to V's "ends justify the means" tactics, especially where his treatment of Evey is concerned. He seems to have ironed these kinks out by the time he got around to tackling characters like Rorschach and Ozymandias in WATCHMEN.

Finally, Dorian, I don't think you're "IN the minority" regarding the SIN CITY movie so much as you ARE the minority! :)
sean | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 8:07 am | #

Gordon:

"Dorian - remember the good old days, when movies were made from, like, original ideas?"

Yeah, like CASABLANCA and GONE WITH THE WIND and THE WIZARD OF OZ and FRANKENSTEIN and NOSFERATU and...okay, no, like PSYCHO and 2001 and APOCALYPSE NOW and RAGING BULL and...okay, no...
sean | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 8:12 am | #

Sean, I doubt Moore intended to show V as a "saviour". And especially not as a saviour of democracy.
I think that V For Vendetta is even more morally ambiguous than Watchmen, and that nobody is "right" in that story. Which makes it all the more interesting.
François Peneaud | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 10:14 am | #

Sean--I would think that the closest things to a moral voice in "V" are the policeman, Finch, who serves the government not out of agreement with the ideology but because he wants his country to recover, and eventually rejects that reasoning, and Evey, who ultimately accepts V's goals but refuses to kill, placing a value on even the lives of her enemies/oppressors.
Dorian | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 10:46 am | #

Sean - to echo the comments by François and Dorian, V is not simply a heroic savior figure and never claims to be (in fact he acknowledges that he will have no place in the new order after his nihilistic cleansing of the corrupt old order is complete). V's means for change are violent and calculatingly murderous, but designed to surgically remove the ruling class of his society. It's akin to asking if the biblical Flood was a morally defensible action for God to take, since V is more akin to a force of nature or an avatar of violent revolution than a mere man.
William Ko | 01.09.05 - 1:39 pm | #

You could be right about the Germany comments being regurgitations of bad reviews and I really hope that is the case. The "remember the 5th" thing actually makes me a little hopeful. Not for the financial success of the movie since as was said this is a big miscalculation (I'd certainly never heard of Guy Fawkes until recently), but perhaps it means they'll be somewhat accurate to the books (we can hope).

I agree with William. V certainly isn't a "hero" in any kind of conventional sense. We may or may not agree with his goals, but he really does seem to be a monster of a figure and more a force of nature. I think the decision to never unmask him even in the end plays into this. As he says at the end when Finch shoots him, he has become an idea. Even his death is calculated.

I think I'd liken V more to something like Godzilla in the original B&W film (before he gets turned into a good guy). It is this horrifying creature that comes out of the ocean to strike back against
Shawn Fumo | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 3:05 pm | #

BTW, one interesting thing about From Hell (movie versus comic). Reading through some of the amazingly in depth references for the comic, it would seem that the main theories come from a particular book (I think it was something like Jack: The Final Solution). Since the movie keeps these main theories but not side characters that the comic makes up (like the coachman), I think it'd be fairer to say that in the end, From Hell the movie is more inspired by that book, even if did directly use the comic as its base.
Shawn Fumo | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 3:08 pm | #

Whoops.. didn't see the other part cut off:

I think I'd liken V more to something like Godzilla in the original B&W film (before he gets turned into a good guy). It is this horrifying creature that comes out of the ocean to strike back against man for his folly. In the end, I think V's human form and origins make him all the more terrifying, even if I identify with what he wants to accomplish.
Shawn Fumo | Homepage | 01.09.05 - 3:13 pm | #

I have a feeling V isn't going to be "sexually degenerate" anymore. Hey, just call it a hunch...
d_dee | Homepage | 01.10.05 - 6:11 am | #

Wow. Comparing V to Godzilla is... bold. And brave.

And Dr Manhattan is a bit like E.T., too. I mean, he points to the sky and goes home.
François Peneaud | Homepage | 01.10.05 - 9:36 am | #

Haha.. you may be right Francois. I was kind of tired when I wrote it, but I don't think I was THAT off.. :P

d_dee, how do you mean? V seemed pretty asexual when I read it, or is there something I'm forgetting about? Or do you mean why he was imprisoned in the camp? I thought they left that open, but I could have just missed it.
Shawn Fumo | Homepage | 01.11.05 - 4:54 am | #

"Al"--if that's you Rick, you're darn lucky I bothered to check the ISP # before doing what I usually do with posts like that...'

Hopefully, you didn't think this was me? I don't even get what the first comment is about. Didn't want you to get pissed at me for something unless I knew why you were pissed!
Rick | Homepage | 01.11.05 - 10:19 am | #

I tend to agree with your assessment of Sin City... I think it will fail to find a mainstream audience.

I love Sin City, and Miller's drawing style, but even I don't understand the need to add prosthetic make-up to the actors so as to make them appear to be exact replicas of the drawings. It's certainly impressive that it can be done, but it seems like it would be more distracting than anything.

The exaggerated features of some of the characters were intended to point out character traits and inform the reader about the characters. In a movie, one would hope this was done by acting and body langauge, thus removing the need to use the exaggerated features from the comic...
josh | 01.11.05 - 12:06 pm | #

Rick--No, but there is someone posting comments under the name "Rick" who has an ISP # that's like one digit off from that post...so I'm letting that post slide for now, in the hopes that it was just someone trying to be clever.
Dorian | Homepage | 01.11.05 - 4:37 pm | #