They cant dictate, but they can heavily pressure and influence. No Israeli politician wants to be in the u.s. presidents bad graces.
Actually, Israel attacking Iran would be a terrible thing -- for Israel. Maybe Biden is simply telling the Israeli RW'ers that it they want to shoot themselves in the foot, that's OK with us.
that holds true for everyone. the US cant tell anyone what to do. but they sure as s*** can make a suggestion.
you know what happens if you dont heed the suggestion? (see iraq from 1990 - present)
Sure the US can make suggestions and influence, and why shouldn't it?If its in our best interest for Israel to jump through a particular hoop, then I would hope our president, and Secretary of State are there cracking the whip. What you forget is that Israel doesn't have to listen, and if Netanyahu does what Obama wants the guilt is him alone.
Maybe if Joe Biden had any credibility this would be a wonderfully frank statement to hear.
Isn't this the same guy who accidentally gave away the secret bunker location?
DB: Actually, it was refreshing to hear Biden say that.
But then again, Biden's a master of flip-flop.
Here Biden tells Israel they would be ill-advised to attack Iran:
"I don't believe that Prime Minister [Binyamin] Netanyahu would do that. I think he would be ill-advised to do that," Biden said in an interview with CNN, when asked about a possible Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites. (JPost)
Here Biden denies saying that Israel would have to "accept" a nuclear Iran.
U.S. Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden never said Israel would have to accept Iran obtaining nuclear weapons, his spokesman said Monday.
Army Radio in Israel reported Biden, the chairman of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told Jerusalem officials three years ago he opposed an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities and Israel would likely have to come to grips with a nuclear-armed Iran, The Jerusalem Post reported. UPI
On could believe that he was simply maligned by GOPpers....which could be true.
And of course, there's this famous exchange between Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Senator Joe Biden -- as Moshe Zak recounted in a March 13, 1992, piece in the Jerusalem Post:
In a conversation with Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, after a sharp confrontation in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on the subject of the settlements, Begin defined himself as "a proud Jew who does not tremble with fear" when speaking with foreign statesmen.
During that committee hearing, at the height of the Lebanon War, Sen. John [sic] Biden (Delaware) had attacked Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria and threatened that if Israel did not immediately cease this activity, the US would have to cut economic aid to Israel.
When the senator raised his voice and banged twice on the table with his fist, Begin commented to him: "This desk is designed for writing, not for fists. Don't threaten us with slashing aid. Do you think that because the US lends us money it is entitled to impose on us what we must do? We are grateful for the assistance we have received, but we are not to be threatened. I am a proud Jew. Three thousand years of culture are behind me, and you will not frighten me with threats. Take note: we do not want a single soldier of yours to die for us."
After the meeting, Sen. Moynihan approached Begin and praised him for his cutting reply. To which Begin answered with thanks, defining his stand against threats. (source)
Not always our best sounding friend.
Maybe if Joe Biden had any credibility this would be a wonderfully frank statement to hear.
It never ceases to amaze me how anxious all of you are to believe the worst. I thought the job RWers did on the Cairo speech was impressive, but here you are refusing to take any comfort from a clear, unambiguous statement.
Meanwhile, you all continue to bow at the throne of GWB even though he (unlike Obama) actualy did force Israel to give up settlements.
Jameel, you aren't making one bit of sense.
First, you can't contrast something that was said when Begin was still alive with something said yesterday and call it a flip-flop. A person is entitled to change his mind, and develop his thinking over 15 years.
Your other quote is from three years ago. Hardly any better. A lot has changed in three years. I know my mind has changed about things in three years. Couldn't Biden's?
Anyway, its interesting for me to see that Begin said the right thing 20 years ago about settlements (ie, "we'll do what we want")I'm waiting for you RW bloggers to embrace that position, instead of pretending that what Obama said in Cairo is somehow new and dangerous and completely unlike what Begin answered all those years ago.
DB: Actually, it was refreshing to hear Biden say that.
I want you to know that its pathetic you find this refreshing. Why is it exciting news to you that Israel is a sovreign nation that can do what it wants? This is news to you? The fact that America recognizes this is news to you? Begin said it 20 years ago. You quote him in your comment, but it impresses you that Biden said the same thing?
I'm telling you the idea that Obama wants to destroy settlments and thinks he can impose this on Israel without Israel's cooperation is one of the loonier RW fantasies, and it would embaress me to know my friend Jameel has baought into it. So I hope I'm misreading you.
What an unpatriotic sheisskopf! The US MUST tell other nations what to do! Isn't "busybody" part of the articles of confederation??
Isn't this just another bidenism. He is saying things that go against the Obama administration's actual plans.
Isn't this just another bidenism. He is saying things that go against the Obama administration's actual plans.
I'm glad that you posted here, because you might be able to help a lot of us out.
As an insider with the Obama administration, what else can you tell us about the administration's plans?
There are many posters here who are worried about Obama and his plans, and many who are not. Can you sort out, based on your insider status with the administration, just what the real facts are?
I can't tell you how great it is to have someone who actually works within the Obama administration posting here.
(You ARE with the Obama administration, right? Of course you are - why would I have doubted myself. You have to be, since you seem to know that the administration's actual plans are and are not. )
As an insider with the Obama administration, what else can you tell us about the administration's plans?
Yes, E-Man, please tell us the actual plans. The world is dying to know.
Yea; if Biden says so that settles the matter. Just as:
I have no more territorial designs in Europe [after the Sudetanland]. "We want no Czechs."
Adolph Hitler.
Did anyone pay attention to Obama's Cairo address? He said that Israel must stop all settlements. That means Israel is not allowed to decide this on its own. Biden said that Israel can do what they want. Do you guys really not see the contradiction here????
He said that Israel must stop all settlements. That means Israel is not allowed to decide this on its own. Biden said that Israel can do what they want.
Of course Israel can do what it wants. Israel signed the 4th Geneva Convention around 1949. Under that Convention, Israel is not allowed to settle its citizens in occupied territory or conquer such territory. They're allowed to hold it as an inducement for their enemies to come to an agreement, which might involve Israel getting some of the territory. (But that depends on the negotiations.) This includes East Jerusalem.
Sure, Israel could abrogate the treaty, there's no power to enforce these things, really, but Israel would have to accept the consequences. At the very least, they'd lose all credibility in international diplomacy, as just about every other country in the world has signed on to the thing.
Of course the US isn't forcing Israel to do anything, but on the other hand, Israel can't force the US to continue to be its ally when there's no benefit to the US. So there's really no inconsistency between what The President said and what the Vice President said.
He said that Israel must stop all settlements. That means Israel is not allowed to decide this on its own.
No it doesn't. What kind of twisted reading is that. If I tell you to do soemthing does that mean you can't decide for yourself if you're going to listen or not? Same here. Obama (like every president since Carter, including Bush II and Reagen) thinks Israel should stop building settlments, and he said this to Israel plainly and courageously.
Ultimately, as any adult realizes, its Israel's choice to listen or not.
Wait so Biden sayig that the US will not pressure Israel and Obama pressuring Israel is my misreading?
Of course there is no pressure; Biden so said; did he not?
I have a bridge to sell you.
Let me correct VP Biden, from my CNN interview:
Q. Are you giving Israel a Green light?
Obama: "Absolutely Not. I think its important that I am as clear as I can be and my administration is as consistent as we can be on this issue."
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/07/
obama.israel.iran/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
Mr. Bear. In the future, please wait one week before posting remarks made by my administration regarding our position in Israel and your attack on the Right Wing.
It is not that we might be accused of flip-flopping, it that we don't want this administration to consistently embarrass you with our actual positions.
The U.S. has long acted as a broker for Israel in the Middle East.
Obama is laying out the U.S. terms. If Israel wants the U.S. to be their broker, then Israel must stop with the settlements.
That's all this is.
There is NO PRESSURE.
If Israel doesn't like these terms, they are completely free to tell the U.S. that they will work the matter out themselves. That's perfectly fine. They are their own country, and there is no reason they can't make up their own minds about things.
Yes. The U.S. let the European Jews work out their terms with Hitler during WWII also.
And before the US became Israel's broker it made a deal with Sharon for Gaza and now lies about the terms.
And while Obama makes nice nice with every dictator in the world, the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons; no doubt for peaceful purposes.
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