this one will probably stir up the haters on a couple mailing lists, but so be it. I'm on vacation next week, but I'll try to check in once or twice a day. It could be a big week if the Iverson deal comes down.
If ever there was a season to follow the Doctors advice, this one was it. We could have gone into the loaded 2007 draft with three first round picks and a chance to get the best player since Tim Duncan, along with some other spectacular big man talent. Instead, we trade one first rounder for Rondo, another for Telfair, and sign PP for an extension instead of getting a future pick. Now we're left with just our pick, which will probably at best be late in the lottery, unless we throw it in the AI deal. So we loaded up on point guards and are so thin up front that one injury to a big and we're up the creek. And celtlicsrtroopers wants me to keep the faith, baby. Maybe I need to root for the Washington Generals also. Oh, yeah, and we still have Coc and Chris Wallace in leadership positions. Maybe crt should change his handle to celticsupyrpoopers.
cheers good Dr.
man you should work for fox news or something, just some absurd sensationalism. worst thing is, you're completely right and i agree with all of your points, but you gotta realize it's possible to make them without tripping over yourself in a rush to fire up your imagined opposition. just take it easy and say what you need to say instead of bringing out the flamethrower in case anyone might try to suggest another viewpoint.
that said, i'd rather watch your newly assembled team win 35 than watch pierce-ai win 45 and completely self destruct in the process. fox news or celtics gm, my friend.
Utter, babbling nonsense. Doesn't deserve a response.
I agree with the Dr.. except that there is a chance that things could go a bit better than your saying.. sometimes players change. It is possible.. but the chances are not high 
Dr., You make some valid pts. However your thought process is similiar to the fans that believed that PP would never become the unselfish, multi-dimensional player he currently is. You also fail to give Doc the respect he deserves for compelling PP to make such a drastic change to his game so far along in his career. Even USA basketball, the same group that wanted to throw PP under the bus several years back, recognized the complete player he has become. As for AI, watching him play against the Celts over his career I grew to hate the fact that the game was never over for him. He would throw his body around until the final seconds of the game, play injured and sick. The NBA has not seen these qualities since MJ.If his winning desire rubs off on some of the unproven talent currently on the roster, we may just get that banner we so desire. Also, the lottery is not an exact science, remember Duncan was suppose to be a dunk shot. Not to mention the NBA is littered with highly talented, under-achieving players, why not take a shot at a proven superstar with a desire to win. Let's face it there are only a handful of players in the league as talented as PP and AI with the ability to create their own shot and dominate a game. Put them together with a few complimetary players and a true penetrating pg and you just might have the makings of a Miami, Phoenix or Dallas. These teams have a couple of Superstars surrounded by other teams throw-aways, several of them former Celts. So,as I do respect your opinion, I also believe your over shooting the hoop a bit. Keep the faith!
YAWN...did someone say something? A tired diatribe of hate littered with inaccuracies and wrong assumptions from start to finish. Congrats on your ignorance.
Why not roll the dice and try and win now instead of later? Miami did it, why can't the Celts?
We got Pierce. We get AI. The we dump the rest of the young talent for proven talent before the trade deadline. Al Jefferson, Telfair and Scal for Al Harrington. Gerald Green, Gomes, Tony Allen, Rondo and Wally for KG or Jermaine O'neil. Perkins, Rondo, filler, picks, B Grant contract for Ray Allen.
c- J.O. or KG
PF - Al Harrington
SF - Paul Pierce
SG - Ray Allen
pg - Allen Iverson
That would give the Celts a good run for banner 17 for the next 3 years.
Pat Riley did it, whay can't we?
Some valid ideas, but too much of your own bias and hatred really diminish the merit of your arguments.
The long-term vision is nice when you actually get a special player like Wade or James, but when you set your eyes on the lottery, you're more likely to follow in the footsteps of the Clippers or the Bulls circa 1999 when Chicago let Pippen go. In other words, it's a gamble and the odds are stacked against you.
Greg Oden sounds great, but the truth is, he's not even in the league yet. Think about Michelle Wie. She's supposed to be the next Tiger, but what has she won so far and what will she win the future? Let's not go around and start annointing anyone who hasn't earned jack here. That's one of the most pathetic things the sports fans do.
Nothing is guaranteed until something actually happens, my friend. And if we learned anything, it's that Danny will wheel and deal even in his grave. That's gambling, too. But teams won more championships this way than those that tried to do it in a lottery year after year.
Great article, Dr.
Glad to see that your perspective is being broadcast to a larger audience. Nice job, Jeff.
The fact of the matter is you do like this team and you are enamored with the progress it has made. You claim that we don't have any "talent" and call the current owners liars yet you want them to proceed the way the have been for a few more years. The big question is: Win now with Pierce, or keep building for something without him a few years later. I think its a fair question and you have chosen differently than the owners, but I don't think 'Pitino' bears mentioning here. The team has improved in potential at least each year Ainge has managed. He takes chances occasionally but hasn't be the farm. You also acknowledge that Iverson is a great player. Your harshest criticism is that AI & Pierce have too similar games and can therefore not play well together. And that AI is too team dominating a presence. I'm not sure what would happen with AI outside Philly, but I am in the how much is too much camp. We are logjammed at some positions anyways, the young guys are going to have lower salaries for a few years, why not clear some room, try AI & Paul and if that doesn't work we'll still have a good team?
Nicely presnted Dr., but not really going out on a limb to suggest this path won't work. 23 teams have gone 25 years in various forms of rebuild to no avail. The likelihood of this attempt not resulting in a championship is high. That said, your worst case scenario is not necessarily going to come to fruition. First, you blast the C's for a deal that has not been made -- they actually have not traded for AI yet (you do realize this). The Pierce extension likely does signify impending deals, but your implication that the deal is done for AI is nonsense.
Please note that either way we are gambling. Prior to the draft I was hoping for a similar PP trade (which BTW would also free cap space especially if you are OK with the Raef trade leaving only Wally's 3 years to dump). I also spoke against a max extension for Pierce citing that max should be reserved for those players who can carry a team on their shoulders to a championship (Duncan, Shaq...). But I see the future as a gamble either way (we are crossing our collective fingers whichever route is taken) and am OK with giving it a short-term shot if the right deals present themselves (patience, Danny). You present a risky scenario as well, given first that the Bulls pick in 2007 may not be for sale at any price and given that the Bulls will be better and who knows, the Knicks might be better too. The 2 picks may prove to be, as you say, 2 more assets -- still no guarantee of the special impact player that we desire and need. An AI trade or a patient wait for a shot at KG may be just as good a gamble as the continued build-up of assets gamble that has not paid dividends for many NBA teams in the past.
Time will tell. In the meantime, I'll choose to enjoy and hope.
An Iverson/Pierce combo would be a debacle the likes of which the Celtics have never experienced.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
So I guess a lot of people are reading us today... hahaha, thanks Jeff! This is like the Marcus Banks thing all over again.
Anyway, I posted a lengthy reply to the Celticsblog people on Celticsblog, I think it needs to clear Jeff's approval so hopefully it'll post later in the day on the comment section.
As for all the new people who have posted here today, welcome, nice to have your thoughts. They are much more reasoned and responsible than the knee-jerk stuff that comprised around 90% of the CBlog responses. Except for this which is the funniest thing I've ever read - "Utter, babbling nonsense. Doesn't deserve a response." He must have been here the day I was talking about Derrida! We embrace contradictions of internal logic at this site friend!
Anyway, I think PA and Neurotic Guy make great contrary points about the fact that Danny will keep dealing, and that it's all a gamble anyway. I hesitated to begin with to write an article that contained so much speculation, because I think it generally comes across as naive, but I guess I felt I owed it to show my cards as far as what I think the "right" course is, instead of just shitting all over Danny. I tried at least to keep the speculation simple (one trade and one trade not made). That's why I think NGuy understood what I was saying and disagreed with the correct thing to disagree with, and I appreciate his view. If that makes sense. Greenlove also makes a point by saying that I do like this team. I do, I just think the past two years have seen a regression in terms of where the club was supposed to be heading. I was with Ainge until Antoine pt 2, where I think it became obvious that the owners were pulling strings to put asses in seats, not to build a winning club. That is the sort of painful compromise and bad faith gesture that adds to Celtics Doom's frustration, both mine and our readers (who, as an aside, are the funniest and coolest Celtics fans in the world).
There will probably be lots more shit slung both ways, but people who get all upset by this really need to chill the fuck out. We're talking about the 7th worst team in the league.
JERKYCSFAN IS ALIVE!!!!
YAY!!!!
While I wouldn't use SUCH harsh language in calling out Danny and Wyc or the signing of Paul, I do agree with you re: the AI trade and PART-2 of your blog. AI would really spell the beginning of the end. And I REALLY wanted Marcus Williams on the team, though again to be fair, we had no way of knowing that he would be available to us that low. And I do LOVE Telfair's potential.
I think Telfair has the potential to be an All Star PG, while Williams will probably be a Andre Miller/Brevin Knight type. A good player to be sure, racks up the assists, but never an all star.
THe other thing in the situation you describe in part 2 is that we would then have a lot of assets in an off season that seems likely to have KG available.
I'd prefer the team with Pierce and AI honestly - we've experienced trying to tank and draft and that sucked. But more on your argument skills. Swearing does not make an argument stronger, it makes you seem ignorant whether or not you are. There's really no need for it. Otherwise, pretty good job.
Dr., I think you are looking a bit too harshly into AI's effect on the team. While it is true AI has never been known as a great team player, have you looked at his stats? The man has been steadily increasing his assists every year, and this year was one of his best by far. I think if he came in, him and PP would actually click more than you think. Giving AI the ability to drive, and if there is no shot, kick out to an actual good wingman? The cap space would suck, I agree tenfold with that, but both are hungry for a championship, and both know what it takes. If AI can carry a team to the NBA Finals, what could happen when PP is there to back him up? You tell me what backcourt in the NBA will be able to go a full game guarding those two. Get rid of some of the loose slack on the team, hell, trade 5 players for AI and keep a young, solid core. It's time the Celtics do something drastic, no one in that organization wants another year of mediocraty, they want to win now.
I'm out of the closet...this has been my fav C's site for a couple of yearss.
Big flaw in the good Dr's reasoning is Raef. We're so much better w/o him and he was an albatross.
I dunno....I don't think Mr Iverson's coming.
I like the idea of depth at the point, ours was the worst in the NBA...
We need to improve the PF and C positions...any moron knows that we were the worst when the younger C's stood around and watched Toine and PP. Adding AI would be even worse as Toine had a bit of a post component.
Keep em coming
It was Aaron McKie, not "Derek Mckee". And he won the 6th man of the year award that season. Is it just me or does that kill this dude's credibility? Maybe I'm just a stickler for details.
Dr. C, I don't know what happened to your post. The spam filter screens out 5,000 spam posts a day and it is really hard tracking down false-positives. Sorry.
Even though I disagree with you, this was an incredibly well-written piece. I know Jeff's panties get in a bunch with the occasional curse word, but I don't mind it one bit. Again, you're one helluva writer. Congrats on that.
I go back and fourth on the Iverson trade, so I'll leave that alone, but I don't get the logic that says we should have taken Marcus Williams over Rondo. Although summer league can often be misleading, Rondo's play was awesome. He has a higher ceiling than Williams, and plays an exciting style of ball conducive to the system Ainge wants in place. He also plays great defense, and rebounds too. That has to be taken into consideration (along with Williams' apparent lack of motivation this spring).
While I would have taken Roy instead of dealing the 7th pick, I get the Telfair acquisition. The guy is fast, and is pass first. That's always refreshing. I also get why teams were scared off by Roy's knee.
I think the "hold out for Oden camp" is missing the obvious: even with 2 lottery picks we won't get Oden, and while I like Josh McRoberts, I feel better that we're heading into next season - barring a horrible trade - with a ton of exciting youngsters already developing. Sure, some will be role players, but some will also take the next step.
Anyway, thanks for the enjoyable read.
First off to answer your question as to which team I would prefer, yours or Danny's, your idea scare the hell out of me! Even though I don't want AI, I'll go with Danny who has proved to me that he knows personnel and also that if he makes a mistake he fixes it.
In my opinion we don't need AI to be a really good team with our personnel. We need a really good PF (like O'Neil) and an upgrade at center. Then I could see us going very deep in the playoffs.
West at 1, Paul at 2, Wally 3, O'Neil 4 and even Perk/Ratliff at 5 wouldn't be bad. I'm rooting for O'Neal or Brand!
Bill
Why would you let Pierce go for a bag of chips to only search for a superstar two years down the road? Does that make any sense? Paul Pierce is a top ten talent in this league yet you want to let him go for a 2007 draft that might not even be in the lottery? What if the Knicks play up to their talent level and make the 8th spot in the Leastern Conference playoffs? Would the Pierce to the Bulls trade officially go down as the most moronic move in professional sports history? Possibly. Oh wait, we got Brandon Roy, correct? What are we hoping from Roy? To become a 25 pts per game scorer, get 7 boards a contest and dish out 5 assists per game. Uh, that is what Pierce gives you. And you would be hard pressed to find 10 other guys in this league who could give you that kind of production.
So essentially you advocate that we run around in circles and place all of our hope on fielding the youngest team NBA history and hoping one of them pans out to be the guy we traded for a 2007 draft pick and Chris Duhon. Then, if our youth does not to turn out to be the shit, we can trade them to a team for a proven All-Star. How about trading them to Chicago for Paul Pierce in two years? Doesn't he meet your criteria?
YOUR PLAN IS BRILLIANT!! Fax your resume to the Celtics as soon as possible!
Greg Oden (or somebody else from the 2007 draft) may, potentially, possibly be a top-ten NBA talent -- and that's the best case scenario. Pierce currently is a top-ten talent. You don't give up a player like that in the prime of his career so that you can have the chance to possibly acquire another player that possibly will be as good as him.
Now, if the Celtics had no talent surrounding Pierce or no young potential talent surrounding Pierce, then I would agree that Pierce should be traded. But worst case scenario -- i.e. even if the C's supporting cast is not ready for primetime -- the Celtics have, at the very least, some very attractive young bargaining chips. And until you decide that those chips can't be parlayed for some legitimate players who can help us win now, then trading Pierce would be reckless and rash.
What's upChuck? So are you for the AI aquisition or not? Do you feel confident with our starters and depth at the 4 and 5 positions? Do you really have a problem with having multiple draft choices in next years draft? Isn't fielding one of the youngest teams in the NBA exactly what we've been doing? Were you ecstatic over the signings of Scalabrine and Dickau last year? And so you're REALLY hanging your hat on the belief that the Knicks will be a playoff team next year? Let me try some of that kool-aid you're sipping, the stuff I'm drinking isn't working. Something stinks around here, and it t'aint me.
myassholestnx, thank God you're here. It's been a day full of strangers who don't understand us Doom-ers.
Yeah, my response to Chuck simply would be, "33-49." We can be close to that without Pierce.
MetroGlobe, thanks for pointing out my fuck-up with Aaron McKee. My fact checker will be fired. If you think it destroys my credibility that I mixed his name up, I urge you to send many letters to the editor for the rest of your life to newspapers who occasionally do the same thing. It's a blog, dude, chill out.
"Swearing does not make an argument stronger, it makes you seem ignorant" - wow, I had no fucking idea. hahaha, thanks Chris.
I'm really pleasantly surprised at how interesting and well written many of the responses have been, particularly the ones that disagreed with me but understood the fun of the argument. The regular posters here know that we value good writing and comedy over all else, so keep that in mind if you plan on posting here in the future with endless outrage. I will not let this site be tittyfucked by humorless Celtics fans who don't feel our pain.
Nice post Dr., and the comment on cblog was even better. You and Jeff both deserve a lot of praise for maintaining these meeting places.
I also wanted to second your point about the luxury of boston sports passion. We have a sub 500 team who just had a questionable draft, and there are multiple sites on the net where posts have a hundred responses within an hour, and a good percentage of them are well thought out and interesting. i just (sadly) moved out of boston, and i can tell you that you don't get that in most cities. i went to a nationals game and people didn't seem to know which team was theirs.
more to the point, i have 2 comments.
First, to your post, you mentioned that antione pt. 2 was when you lost faith in danny. why is that? i was out of the country at the time, so my memory of the period is a little spotty, but from what i recall it was a transparently temporary thing. we paid a guy to come in and hopefully win us a few games. it struck me as an ok way to both generate interest in the team, and get young players some playoff experience without signing away the future of the franchise. it's not an important point, it just struck me as odd that you'd point to that as an epiphany.
second, i like the iverson idea, for a couple reasons. i agree that winning teams are not built by teams wallowing around 500 and drafting solid role players. that is a recipe for stagnation, and you are right to be pissed about it. however, you can't get away from 500 without making big moves. also, as much as i like the idea of oden being on the celtics, it is a fool's strategy to target a single player in the draft years ahead of time. to ensure success you need to have a top 5 pick about 3 years in a row. that means you have to be bad. trading for iverson is good because it is sink or swim. either he and pierce mesh, and it works out and we become a good team in the east (maybe 3rd or 4th best in a perfect world), or it will be a disaster. if it doesn't work out we will be cellar-dwelling, and then we can start from scratch. it's risky, but even getting worse is better than staying where we are now.
This is dead on right except that Pierce for Duhon and a possible lottery pick is way too light. At the very least you need to wait to see who has the most ping pong balls at the end of the year and flip Pierce to them. Otherwise though, he nailed it.
hi doc, your section on the debacle that would follow a celtic trade for iverson was well written, well thought out, and well recieved. good job and thanks.
Dr you are blowing up! Look for the Celtics Mgmt to send you free seasons and consult you on upcoming decisions!
Wow. I feel like everyone has discovered a secret I already knew 
Because I am a regular reader/poster on Celtics site, can I please FUCK one of their new cheerleaders? I am willing to pay top dollar 
The Cs, like a lot of teams need better
defense and rebounding. AI does not
give a team that. I think Ainge went
with Jefferson Perkins and G Green
with the notion that one or two of the
high schoolers would develop into the
equivalent of a lottery pick in talent.
And he would not have to sink so far
down to snag a lottery pick. A reasonable course of action I think.
Dance Squad, RickyDF, Dance Squad!
WPDK - my problem with the Antoine trade was that it clearly contradicted the Ainge "vision" and was thus a front office decision made to boost ticket sales. Most egregiously, we included a first rounder in the deal for a guy we knew was a rental. We're a bad team, we can't afford to cough up first rounders so Wyc won't feel so lonely at the TD Banknorth the last two months of the season. A lot of good getting our guys seasoned in the playoffs did anyway. One of them went on to completely implode (AJ), another to get arrested (#42).
You make a good point about Iverson being a similar sink or swim proposition, I just think we'd have been better off in three years with a true rebuilding movement. Lottery picks, expiring deals, young talent. Like you say, an Iverson deal makes us at best the #4 team in the East (I say #6, but whatever), but with only 3 years to add the pieces that could make it a real contender. Again, I just think in three years a bunch of lottery picks mixed in with our core young players (DW, KP, RG, maybe ST) would be a better starting point to build a great team.
Thanks again to everyone who's been commenting, agree's and disagree's. I'm on vacation this week, but hopefully I'll put a piece up later in the week.
If getting AI helps the Celts attract a legitmate big guy, then ok. Otherwise I don't think it'll help that much (other than to help the Celts sell a shitload of merch, which may be a motivator). This team needs a big guy. Even when Perk and Al ("Jerome Moiso") Jefferson are playing well, they can barely stay on the court without fouling out. Al averaged 5.6 PFs in about 20min/game in the Summer League. The weakest link on this team last year was Raef. Thank god he's gone. Wally and Delonte are pretty decent. Pierce would be incredible on a good team. Now the team needs a real rebounding, defending, tough big guy who can score occasionally, maybe the 16-9 guy that Danny thought Raef would be. Personally, I am not a proponent of the plan to collect young talent until my liver dries up.
Yahoo Sports on potential Celtics/Sixers trade:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news...cnnsi&
type=lgns
Hope the link works for those of you who want it.
thanks anon. I found this sentence to be kind of funny: "Ainge has shown himself to be one of the more astute GMs in the league,"
RickyD Fan, you shouldn't treat the Celtics Dancers that way. They are entertainers, and they are in prime physical athletic condition. Okay, okay, I just want to fuck them too.
what's worse, parsing every comment made by ainge in the hope of finding a red thread or that I'm sitting here reading the various "deconstructions".
it can't none of it be good, Willie.
Grand day for the ownershit team. The Pierce dog and pony show gives them two bites at the news cycle, now that it's "official." Poor Wyc, if it wasn't for the trouble in the middle east, maybe he could have gotten on the New England Cable News morning show.
The Danny "none of them are going to be Paul Pierce" quote seems to confirm the oft stated notion that GG is numero uno on the block. With Pierce and likely Iverson on the way, they need to keep all the Gomes/Perk guys who'll "accept their roles" (ie - don't take shots).
my guess as to who's being shopped in order of Ainge's preference to shitcan...
GG
AJ
DW
RG
KP
By the way, love Danny's unashamed use of "youngs." With "bigs" and "youngs" and "smalls," ought we not introduce the term "sucks" and just apply it blanket-ly?
HELLO??? People, as long as Shits is our coach, it doesn't matter if we acquire Iverson, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, etc. He'd figure out a way to funk that party up just like he does everything else. In Danny's vision, Coc is nothing more than a cataract clouding shit up.
"I like young bigs especially if they are willing to suck."
Dead on about the news cycle. Prick Groussbeck is after the ellusive talk radio chatter in order to keep attention high.
Shits Rivers, diahrea of the mouth.
when will these assholes pack up and leave? the Celtics need someone competant.
Shit dude, you need to get laid or something ... chill out
if 47% fgs & 4.7 apg = ballhog, i'd like more ballhogs please.
and stop writing roy OR foye. foye was not available at 7 if they dont make the portland trade.
Jeff has definitely lost his mind.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
An asshole is a terrible thing to taste.
1
Share my secret:::What historical figure did you reincarnate??
The voice you hear in your head is the power of the Gods. It's a remote technology, like a computer, perhaps functioning on some frequency, and it can listen and talk to everyone in the universe simultaneously.
What the Gods taught the children was the truth:::God is everywhere, and as I will remind you:::If you want to go to heaven you have to be good.
Even the antient Gods don't have the ability to listen to people's thoughts themselves. They taugh we were all made in their image:::I expect they need this "Artificial Intelligence" to relay what people think.
It is a tool, and the Gods use their tools to test people with temptation:::It will role-play people in your life:::Parents, friends, spouses, and employers, all in an attempt to test people with temptation. Ionically, it does the very same thing to those people whom you think you're hearing, except in that individual's unique way:::We are all "managed" by the God's technology.
There are no secrets with this technology.
But this "agent of the Gods" can do more than just communicate. It can force thoughts into people's heads, force behaviors onto their bodies. It can turn healthy cells in your body into cancerous cells. It is absolute power. And this is just the beginning.
The Gods favor the children most among all the people due to their innocence and purity. But society and the God's tools are corrupting the children at a progressively younger age, a reflection of our collectively increasing disfavor and yet another clue illustrating we live in a constantly deteriorating environment.
Children who sucessfully repair their relationship with the Gods ascend into heaven. This often takes multiple lives of hard work and proper behavior in the face of adversity to achieve. Adults to whom it is offered enter clone hosting, thinking they are ascending into heaven. The Gods tempt people, selling them as one in the same, but one is good while the other is evil. In their desperation the disfavored subscribe to this temptation, making their task even more difficult than before due to the evil they incurr in the process. And their corruption will cost the disfavored, for they will be reincarnated as a lesser life form into an ever deteriorating world, sucess becoming ever more alluding with each passing life.
The hole they've dug for themselves is even deeper than the one that existed from their prior lives, ensuring it will take even more time and work to fix their problems with the Gods. And for many there may not be enough time left.
Ours is an envionment where evil is perceived to be rewarded while good is punished. As with everything the Gods have a reason for creating this perception::::
People who fall on the good side of the good/evil scale have more favor, and when they do something wrong the Gods punish them BECAUSE THEY WANT THEM TO LEARN. The Gods want them to receive this fe
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