Dr John Crippen
it is dreadful of course, but some reactions to it are incorrect.
"Tomorrow it may be our child."
You are far more likely to win the lottery. The lottery has winners every week. There have been, what, two incidents of this kind, in 40 years?
I have seen comments to the effect of "fancy leaving your children behind, in this day in age". The first part of that quote I can understand. The second is just nonsense. This day and age is no different from any other, and people should not be paranoid about the almost non-existent chance of this happening to them.
OTOH, 3500 children are seriously injured or killed on Britain's roads, and yet many people fail to take basic precautions and safety steps that could reduce this nubmer.
A photogenic child abducted? Someone alert the media!
There really are more important things going on in the world - no realistic assessment would make this front page news for a week.
It's being very cynically used to sell papers - everyone knows that child is very likely dead by now, but they keep slapping that adorable child on the front pages of newspapers and online news-sites, don't they?
Well said, Dr C. I have copied your sidebar and added it to my website. And to the person "Bah" - don't you think that the probable kidnapping, rape and murder of a child is newsworthy? If not, what is?
Newsworthy for ten days? No.
It's a tragedy for the family, but not there are more important things going on in the world, believe it or not.
so, "bah", exactly how long does the kidnap, rape and murder of a 4 year old stay as news? You say not ten days. How long since she was snatched from her bed do you think we should be interested for?
Well, "dan", I'd say two days tops. More reports if there's more actual _news_.
What we're seeing now is the same behaviour people exhibit when driving past a car crash.
Going over the same few details and showing the same pictures again and again to satisfy the prurient interest of the public isn't reporting: it's entertainment.
Bah, there are many sad things going on in the world, but just at the moment every parent's nightmare is happening to the McCann family and I find your attitude really pathetic. If I were in their position, I would be doing everything I could to find out what had happened to my child.
And "matthew" - what do you mean, there have been two incidents of this kind of case in 40 years? I understand that child abductions are rare, but they do happen. Off the top of my head - Sophie Hook, Sarah Payne, Millie Dowler (I'm sorry if I upset anyone) but I have two children, one of whom we nearly lost to a brain tumour, and my heart goes out to any parents who must be suffering as much as the McCanns are. Someone, somewhere, must know what has happened to Madeleine.
I was referring to abductions of children on holiday.
The latest news, incidentally, is that an international charitable fund is being launched.
I am flabbergasted by the negative and often distasteful reaction to his tragedy. I can only assume that most of the comments are from people who do not have children.
Child abduction is statistically a rare occurrence, thank God. I know that.
I have some inkling of what these parents are going through.
The number of children killed in RTAs is of course tragic and I agree that not enough is done about it. But there is a difference. Those deaths area accidental and the outcome is known immediately. This abduction is not accidental, and outcome is not known.
I feel desperately for the parents, and for poor Maddie herself.
Someone, somewhere knows where she is. The longer her face is kept in the news, the greater the chance that someone will spot her. And now there is a HUGE reward for her return : that increases the chance that someone will provide information.
John
With all due respect John, I think you've lost objectivity about this.
If Madeline had vomited and choked to death or the apartment had caught fire and she'd died in that fire the McCanns wouldn't be the object of sympathy. Instead they would be in court for neglect and abandonment of their child.
The fact that Maddy was abducted shouldn't change that. It is WRONG to leave a small child alone, whilst the parents go out and enjoy themselves.
Having said that, I pray that Maddie is found and is safe. BUT when she is, I hope that the authorities will take the appropriate action against her parents.
Nicki - you really think that anything the authorities could do to Madeleine's parents would be worse than what they're going through now? They must have spent every hour since she disappeared thinking ' if only...; what if we'd...; why didn't we...'. You have only to look at the heartbreaking pictures of her mother to see what agonies she's suffering, poor soul.
How would taking action against Madeleine's parents help anything / anyone?
Bah - remember Jamie Bulger ?.......... I do.
Do you not realise how families, and particularly families with young children are haunted by this abduction ? ........this tragedy has certainly dominated our household since events began to unfold a week or so ago.
Of course we can't begin to imagine how impossible life must be for the McCanns but I hope that the thousands, and probably hundreds of thousands well wishes are of some help.
The cynical media may be having a field day maniplulating our fears just to put a few more coppers in Rupert Murdochs pocket.
But surely that doesn' alter the fact that child abduction has a universal capacity to appaul - if somebody is unable to relate to the anguish of a frightened child, or the devastating aftermath of being forcibly seperated from her parents, then I wonder what sort of skeletons exist in that persons closet ?
Oh, for crying out loud. I am just pointing out that this is a private tragedy and not one that is assisted by every emotion-gawker in the UK watching it on the news. It is not 'distasteful' to say that the family should be left alone from such attention.
I maintain that it is also not newsworthy for the reasons you give. There was a car crash on the M4 near me recently. The car was upside down, the occupants obviously badly hurt. I didn't hear anything about that on the news and I'm sure it affected their families severely too. You could make similar arguments for saturation coverage in that it could give more information for their families as to what happened.
Face it - this is getting coverage because they're a nice middle class family who happen to have a photogenic child and many parents can identify with that. It doesn't detract from the horrible thing that's happened to them to say that the media are milking this for their own purposes. It doesn't detract from their grief to say that the coverage is not there to 'find the child' that we all know is dead.
Finally, I agree with 'me' that there is no point taking action against the family. The child is gone - they've been punished more than enough.
I do have a child, with another on the way, but I just don't see why the disappearance of a single photogenic child in Portugal should dominate my thoughts more than any of the other children suffering in the world.
God, you are a callous lot.
I have four children. I am sure that over the years we have made the odd error of judgment when juggling child care. Well, I know we have. Thank God, luckily, we have not had a tragedy.
To lose a child in any fashion is a tragedy. BUT, if a child dies in an RTA, or from a medical mishap, or for any mishap that occurs when a parent is distracted, or indeed from an objective error of judgment made by the parent, the outcome is known immediately.
I do not know the full facts of what happened in this case, and nor do any of you. So I am not going to start making any critical remarks about these parents. Even if they DID fall short of an objectively acceptable standard of child care on this occasion, that does not lessen the effect the abduction has upon them and it most certainly does not lessen the effect it is having on the child.
There is still a strong possibility that Maddie is alive. There has been no ransom note. It was almost certainly a planned abduction. Yes, it is possible it was a child paedophile organisation - God I hope not - but if it was, she will almost certainly be alive and, whatever is now happening to her, rescualbe. It is also possible she has been abducted by an organisation that provides children for childless couples. I hope that is the case. If it is, she will be alive.
Whatever has happened, just at the moment the best we can all do is keep it in the news, give as much publicity to the case, and hope that someone, somewhere, spots her. If the interest is maintained, and the rewards offered go up, it is just possible that who ever has taken Maddie will get frightened and release her. There is precedent for that.
Just read through the implications of this appalling statement:
"If Madeline had vomited and choked to death or the apartment had caught fire and she'd died in that fire the McCanns wouldn't be the object of sympathy. Instead they would be in court for neglect and abandonment of their child. The fact that Maddy was abducted shouldn't change that. It is WRONG to leave a small child alone, whilst the parents go out and enjoy themselves."
Disgraceful.
What are you suggesting? That if a child is abucted, we should only take action if the parents care has been beyond reproach? That we should make a judgment on the standard of child care before making a decision as to how many resources to commit to the search?
If Maddie is still alive, and please God she is, she is in danger, she is at risk. We must hunt for her.
I cannot believe that any of the above negative comments come from parents. Wait until you have your own children.
I still think of Ben Needham who was similarly abducted in Greece 16 years ago. As I recall, he was playing in the garden, his mother was keeping an eye on him, but not constantly, and suddenly he was no longer there. I suppose you are going to critcise her too.
Take a look at this:
http://www.kinder-nach-hause.de/...eedham/
info.doc
This sort of tragedy is a life sentence for the parents. I do not have any interest in asking if there was an element of blame.
There is a time and a place for everything, and this is neither. Have you no sense of decency?
At the moment we need to concentrate on looking for Maddie, and on supporting these poor parents.
And there is a bigger, much bigger point. If we ever start giving up on child abductions, then there will be more and more.
Criminals need to know that if they abduct a child, the police, INTERPOL, police throughout the world, will NEVER give up on the hunt. Never. That way there will be less of them.
John
A&E Charge Nurse: Ah, I see - if I'm not willing to spend two weeks immersing myself in the families misery then I must be a weird pervert.
If, on the other hand, I want to sit in front of the telly for two weeks to watch the same lingering shots of the child, to repeatedly go over every last detail of how the child was taken, and to watch the continuing anguish of the suffering family, then I'm normal. Thanks for clearing that up.
I have to agree that the news coverage is a bit inappropriate. That's not to say I don't sympathise with the family, or that I blame them for what happened - after all you only have to turn your back on a child for a moment for them to be snatched or have an accident, and what parent hasn't ever done that? Terrible things do happen, and they can't all be foreseen or prevented, though I'm sure these parents would have done differently with hindsight. But I feel for them, and I sincerely hope the little girl is found safe and well.
But, is there any need for the media to spend such excessive time dwelling on this, on going over and over the same few facts? There isn't really very much more to say beyond 'child abducted, parents upset', and I agree that after the first day or two the coverage had turned into gruesome entertainment rather than news. We should leave the police to do their jobs, and the family to cope as well as they can with such an awful situation.
You are losing the plot.
The issues are:
This child may still be alive.
Someone knows where the child is.
Police cannot do their work without information.
Photographs of the child everywhere may help stimulate observation that may lead to that information ie the whereabouts of a live child.
Saturation of the media may help.
The relatively new Internet / Blog sites may help.
That, I think, is the point Dr Crippen was making.
That's all.
Some of the discussion above is simply self indulgence. At this stage your opinion on various aspects of this case is irrelevant. That is for another time.
People go missing every day. Should we have saturation coverage for each, then, or just the attractive ones?
Yes,
All of them.
Attractive, ugly and in between.
Around 200,000 people are reported missing in the UK each year. That's over 500 a day - and that'd be a lot of saturation coverage!
Yes, we should but we can’t. So it has to be the next best thing.
Children and other vulnerable individuals not able to look after themselves.
When police forces need more information.
Where time is a crucial factor.
Where there are treacherous circumstances.
Where life is in danger.
The bottom line.
The bottom line that can be built upon
Actually, John, I have both children and grandchildren - neither have ever been left alone in a house or apartment.
I wasn't suggesting that resources were limited if parental care has dropped below the legal standard (and let's remember that the legal standard is what I was commenting on) and I had hoped that was clear from the penultimate sentence of my previous comment.
I was simply stating a fact: many parents have been prosecuted for leaving a small child alone (some of them because they couldn't obtain childcare and had to go work to earn money).
Witch Doctor - it still wouldn't be possible to do saturation coverage on just missing children. Between 500 and 800 children are abducted in the UK per year, which puts this current story into perspective.
You want to look at the bottom line. Fine. The bottom line is that this child is very likely dead - what proportion of children are recovered in such circumstances after two weeks? - and the media circus we are seeing is all to do with giving the public what they want, and nothing to do with the child's welfare.
I think it's important to show a particular sign of Madeleine like the one she has in her right eye:
http://idolatrica.blogspot.com/2...ddy-
mccann.html
P.S.: In portuguese you should say:
Madeleine McCann desaparecida em Portugal
No, Bah
The bottom line you mention is that this child has been abducted.
For the moment that is all.
This child is an individual. And since there is no evidence to the contrary, a live individual. Not a statistic.
I have no knowledge of childhood abduction figures in the UK but would imagine if 1 to 2 per day is correct, most of these are due to a parental tug of war, quite different from this situation.
Bah, I'm not accusing you of anything, sorry if came over that way.
A number of points have already been made about the dubious motives of the media, our apparent indifference to a host of other missing persons, or less publicised tragedies, they are all valid.
Some posters may be sniggering at the maudlin response from those who are simply distant observers, but the gut-churning fate that has befallen this child operates at the level of the limbic system.
The frontol cortex may try to keep these sensations in check, but a child snatched from her bed by some malaevolent force, scares the shit out of us, and arouses the sort of anguish that demands a certain sense of solidarity.
The Observer, today, suggests that the McCanns have benefited in some way by this support, it does not redress the balance of their suffering, but what else can we do, ignore them ?
I'm twenty-three years old, and don't have any children. But Kate McCann's face cuts to my heart. I think this story has been so prominent because it resonates, for all of us, on the level of nightmare - even my, childless, nightmares. They came back, and she wasn't there. The horror of it cuts deep.
And for the record, the legality of the McCanns having left the apartment - and the children were sleeping and locked in, they were very close by, and checking every thirty minutes - was discussed in the Times, which concluded that it was within reasonable limits. In any case, I don't ever want to be the sort of person who responds to these parents' anguish by getting on my moral high horse. It could have been any of us, and whether they quote-unquote "deserve" it or not, I feel nothing for the McCanns but sympathy and support.
Of course, the motives of the media, and of the watchers, aren't entirely pure. Motives for good deeds never are. If any of it helps bring Maddie back, or any information about her fate, I don't give a damn, and I doubt the McCanns do either. I think a lot of the criticism of their actions comes from fear. We all want to believe that it couldn't happen to us, because we're smarter than that - we would never have done what they did.
We're not. And it could.
A&E - I agree that the McCanns need support, absolutely. But this should come from friends and family, not mawkish sympathy from the uninvolved. I'm not going to reiterate my points about the motives of the people watching.
What happened to the family is absolutely terrible, and should strike a chord with anyone who has children or looks after them. What the family need is to be left alone, in my opinion.
She could still be alive.
So her parents left her alone, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get her back.
Bah, the family's comments about the public support appear to disagree with you. Perhaps what they need is not to have their needs judged for them.
A different point. The police may have good reason for scaling down the search.
Here's another missing person -- please do what you can (which is very little!)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ast/
6518185.stm
Jayann
I am ahead of you.
See right side bar
John
Sarahnova, I haven't seen those comments but given that there are people who think they should be prosecuted for child neglect - they're hardly going to say anything negative to the people who ARE on their side, are they?
As an aside for anyone interested in some less photogenic missing children, have a look at http://uk.missingkids.com
Bah,
Good on you for finding this site. As from tomorrow a link to uk.missingkids.com will feature permanently on my daily blog.
See! A little bit of disagreement now and then can always be turned around!
Someone once calculated we're only nine people away from knowing the world. This rather naive witch doctor believes it! Truly! What do you think about that?
Thanks again.
Excellent! Glad you found that useful. Another good one you may want for your blog is the National Missing Persons Helpline. They're a charitable organisation which does what it says on the tin. Their web address is http://www.missingpersons.org
Cheers
http://uk.missingkids.com/
Yes, excellent idea, I will add that site under Maddie's picture. That should bring in additional publicity for all.
But I still feel that a lot of you care callous and cynical. This is not to do with a child being photogenic. Most 3 year olds are photogenic.
This is to do with child abduction, no more and no less.
John
Bah,
Got the link. It will appear on my blog during the witching hour for ever. (or at least till I finally croak it!).
PS I think its only the DOH who read my blog, but I suppose there's nine of them!
John, I dislike media manipulation which is why I am quite vehement on this topic, but believe it or not I don't actually want to cause offence.
I will cheerfully admit to being very cynical, but I am not a callous person. I wouldn't want my worst enemy to go through what I imagine that family is going through.
However, if you look on that website you'll see lots of kids who have had absolutely zero publicity. There is a reason why some stories are pushed more than others. You might find that offensive but I'm afraid it's true: non-white non-female children just don't get that level of publicity.
Bah, I must say that I have to agree with you on this.
The media have gone over the top on this, as they do on cases that they choose. I get really annoyed watching the coverge, not because I in any way want to detract from the grief of the McCann's or the search for Maddy, but because of their (the media's) cynical manipulation of this occurance.
The media choose which cases to highlight. When I watch the "earnest" expressions on the commentators on TV I want to puke. They care only for ratings. They don't care for the individuals involved. Harsh but true.
John, I fully support your campaign to highlight the issue but leave the mainstream media out of it.
P.S.
I have four children, one with Down's Syndrome.
Bah and Matt,
I think at the end of the day we're all marching to the same drumbeat.
Yes, mawkishness exists, discrimination exist in this land of ours. It may never change, but for what its worth The Witch Doctor's observation has always been that the most cynical of folks are often among the least callous!
Indeed, The Witch Doctor has great respect for cynics!
If you are all saying that this is a highly emotive issue, I agree. And I also agree that when one is emotional about something, the reaction may be strong.
And, yes, it pales into insignificance compared with the number of innocent Iraqis killed by Bush and Blair bombs. But I could not stop that.
I can't do much about Maddie, but if putting her photo all over the blogosphere helps, then that is was I am trying to do. As someone suggested, I have put the Missing Kids site on as well. It currently features Maddie and two other much older children.
John
Yes, there are thousands more children who have vanished without trace like Madeleine, and I intend to write about one of them each day, to get their story heard too.
Quixotic, but your heart's clearly in the right place.
"As a parent, I share Drs Kate and Gerry McCann’s anguish. All parents share the anguish, for it affects us all. Tomorrow it may be our child"
This horrendous occurance of a missing child is an outrage and appalling! It does affect us all, now that is has happened. The point is it should have NEVER happened.
I am most upset over the fact that the parents although obviously doing a "normal" breakfast outting, would leave 3 children home...and alone!!!
I just wanted to say that this could never be "MY" child!! What type of parents would do this to their children? What kind of person would leave a child unattended? What thoughts were going through their heads? Did they think of them when they were leaving them alone. I would never do that to "MY" child. I could never do that to "MY" child.
HOW COULD THEY?
Although my heart, prayers and a safe return go out to young Maddie, I DO NOT AND WILL NOT think of the parents or their feelings on this subject. To do so would be a waste of time. Did they think of her? Were they concerned of her well-being? I'd say NO!
Right now all my positive energy is directed towards that innocent young girl!
PLease Let Us Find Maddie!
And if by some horrible turn of life, Maddie innocent soul has been taken from us, "GOD Help Her", then we should make the McCann's totally and fully accountable for this situation! Unjust parents need to be Justly judged!
How Christian of you, Derrick.
John sorry (but actually, I can't see it here).
Bah, I'm glad you posted the missingkids link.
Matt (I would never think you uncaring, whatever our disagreements) the news tonight was wall-to-wall Maddie, it really is exploitative -- of the parents and their relatives, too.
ah -- anon at 12.29 was me/I.
I have thought a lot about many of the responses along the lines of "well, lots of very small children go missing, and the press only highlight the photogenic ones...etc etc"
So I looked through the Missing Kids website that I put on under the picture of Maddie.
I should say now that I have no idea if this website is representative of all children that are missing.
However, from the list of missing children the site gives, the following emerges:
1. They are nearly all girls - very few boys.
2. A large number of them are teenagers - not to say that that does not mean anguish for the parents, but in many cases the teenager may well have disappeared of her own volition.
3. Of the YOUNGER children, most seem to have been taken by a parent, who is also missing, or been the subject of marital/custody disputes, or be children with foreign antecedents who may well, therefore, have been taken to another country by a family member. This is a typical story of an 11 month baby who is missing:
"Maya is a child who is subject of a care order and usually resides with her Grandmother who is her Primary carer in Doncaster. On the 24th March, 2007, Maya was taken from her Grandmothers home by her parents Nivenn Mahmoud and Glen Russell Gerber and taken abroad to Malaga, Spain. Maya is under One Year old, has Light Brown hair and is a Slim Build."
[I am not even sure that Maya should be listed on this site on those facts]
Or this 8 year old:
"Police are concerned for the welfare of Nassima who was taken on holiday by her father on 07/04/2006, she was due back on 19/04/2006 but failed to return. Her Father left a message saying they would not be returning. Nassima is described as 104cm tall with long fair/brown hair, brown eyes. She has a beauty mark on her left cheek below her eye, and a gap in her front"
The most disturbing one to me is Charles Watkinson, now 9 :
"Charles Watkinson is missing from the Lambeth area of London. Please contact police if you know his location."
Very terse. And I don't remember anything about that in the press. WHY NOT? [And yes, as it happens, he is photogenic as, frankly, are all these children]
There are a total of 36 children listed as missing in the UK over the last 3 years.
There is not one single 3 year old toddler listed as abducted - apart from Maddie.
++++++++
This gives the lie to the suggestions made above my many that the abduction of toddlers is a commonplace event.
It is not.
It is extremely rare, and extremely unpleasant. It is an offence that most of us find particularly disturbing.
It may not be strictly logical to be more concerned about child abduction than child deaths on the road, but emotionally the former is far more disturbing. RTAs are awful but they are accidents, they are not premeditated crimes. They are not EVIL.
Abductions are evil, repugnant and horrifying. We must do everything in our power to hunt down the criminals and sent a very clear message to anyone contemplating such abductions for what ever purpose that they can expect to be hunted for the rest of their lives.
John
John, they are not representative. You are looking at outstanding cases and comparing those to the set of all cases. Around twice as many girls go missing compared to boys, for example, but from what you say it seems that more girls STAY missing.
An awful lot of children go missing every year, but most return within 72 hours. Without wishing to be crass, the ones that don't and are not teenagers who have run away to the city lights, the ones that don't return are likely to be dead and will be discovered within the three year time frame you mention so will be removed from the list. I don't think you can assume that one set is representative of the other.
Where I do agree with you though is that most abductions are custody disputes, and that abductions of toddlers by strangers are relatively rare.
However, vulnerable people vanishing without anyone giving a damn is quite common, which is the point I was making.
As for your comments about sending a message to people contemplating such abductions, it sounds like you are trying to justify the media storm over this case. It really does not. There are many crimes which I find just as "evil, repugnant and horrifying", such as rape, for example.
I don't think morally there's any less justification for sending a similarly strong message to rapists that they can expect to be hunted down for the rest of their lives.
In any case, I see that the BBC has finally knocked this story off the top spot. With a bit of luck the less reputable press will follow - unless there's any more news, that is.
Bah will be pleased to know that it's back as the main story on BBC news online with the revelation that Maddy's father believes she's safe.
Her eye defect looks quite distinctive. Is it the sort of thing that she will always have, or could it go away on its own?
maybe you should look more at the parents i mean do you really leave a little girl alone in a house in a diffrent country while you go to have dinner they wanted a break for the little girl well there wish has come true sorry you dont leave kids alone where ever you are and doing what they did well they know about these things and yet they still left her alone ..you just dont do that
The eye defect is a coloboma, and that's permanent.
Remarks about the media coverage notwithstanding, I know that if this was my little girl I would want as much publicity about the case as I could possibly drum up.
Frankly, I wouldn’t give a flying f**k what the media’s motivation for the coverage was and wouldn’t care less whether it meant they sold a few more papers if it increased the likelihood of my daughter being found.
As for recriminations, surely they’re for a later date, aren’t they?
Why is there no CCTV footage of the public areas in the resort?
Heaven knows, I am no fan of CCTV; (I spotted a CCTV camera in a crematorium a couple of weeks ago and it that is not intrusive and unnecessary I don't know what is.)
Does the resort not have CCTV in the public areas, or has something happened to the footage?
On another note - even if teenagers are runaways, that may not lessen the heartache. Again it is the not knowing which can blight lives for decades.
Aphra.
I'm very skeptical whether an overweight black girl from a working class background would get nearly the same amount of round-the-clock-coverage/sympathy/treatment/cash rewards.thousands of people including children go missing each year,why this constant Big Brother style up-to-the-minute coverage focus for this one child? Don't get me wrong i genuinely wish her well,and feel for her parents but the massive media coverage is if anything making me more unsympathetic.if you cant get where im coming from,see this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Mis..._woman_syndrome
"A photogenic child abducted? Someone alert the media!"
Indeed, all parents should perhaps be advised that from now on, it is wise to regularly take a photo of your child in a football strip in case you need to enlist media assistance.
MINH ANH NGUYEN, 11 months old disappeared on 20th April 2007 along with her 17 year old mother. Nowhere near as good a story.
11,000 Congolese children are missing as a result of the conflict there. They aren't pretty young white, blonde girls.
Parents in Portugal have pointed out that far less media attention was paid to THEIR missing children.
"They are not EVIL."
That's the sort of comment I expect from the Daily Mail. Personally, I lack the confidence to ascribe the word 'evil' to another human being.
I can't believe they continue to make news out of this with... no actual news.
What's next, Blair coming out to announce that she was "the People's Toddler"?
Not for nothing the parents dont really deserve sympathy for being irresponsible and leaving their children alone in a hotel room, I dont care for how long there are so many things that couldve happened and unfortunately did...i think the parents should be punished for not being with their young children which woudlve prevented this situation to begin with...but my prayers are with this little girl and her safe return
I read (?in the Times) that Maddie's dad has dealt with the intolerable distress of the situation by commiting himself to maximising publicity because he believes it gives the best chance of him getting his daughter back.
Perhaps the high profile publicity is the media co-operating with his wish, and perhaps he and his wife 100% agree with what sometimes appears to be intrusion into their grief.
I think that you are all missing the point. Since when has a child's abduction become a matter of debate on whether we should care? If it were your child that was missing, wouldn't you want everyone to care and to do everything they could to get them back home? Wouldn't you want to keep it in the media as long as you could on the off chance that someone somewhere might see it on t.v. or in the paper, and maybe recognize that beautiful little girl as the same one they saw in the grocery store or in a car riding down the street? It is a sad day for our nation when people who have children of thier own can say why should I care about somebody else's missing child? It just goes to show how desensitized we have become, and I am saddened when I think of what will become of us. I have two children of my own, and I know that if one ever went missing, through my own inattention or some other circumstance, I would fight tooth and nail to keep it in the media, and I would demand everyone's attention and vigilance, because I would do no less for anyone else. Open your eyes, people, the war in Iraq is not the only tragedy these days.
I just don't understand some of you lot.
1. Every parent has, at some stage, left their kids on their own for a while. Even if it's only asleep in the house while you're in the garden having a cup of tea, the principle is the same. And to those who have said they have 'never done this'
you're lying. Or deluded. Or both.
2. The person who is to blame is the person that took her. No-one else.
3. 'the massive media coverage is if anything making me more unsympathetic'
WTF? You're letting the press influence how you feel about a child being abducted? Get a grip.
4. I DO NOT GIVE SHIT about whether this kid is getting publicity because she is blond, pretty, a trained unicyclist. or will soon invent nuclear fusion. To say 'she shouldn't get the publicity because others don't' is just so fucking stupid it beggars belief.
Every missing child is a tragedy. Is thier case made any better by reducing the publicity for this one? Perhaps we should take all of them a little more seriously, though thank God this kind of thing is very, very rare.
The Police E-fit that looked "like an egg":
"The image [published by Daily Mail and Telegraph] is far from the reality”, says a Polícia Judiciária spokesman
The sketch of a possible suspect, allegedly show to Simon Russel, a British living in Algarve, by officers of Portuguese CID (Polícia Judiciária – PJ) “is far from reality”, a spokesman of PJ told today to Gazeta Digital. The spokesman refused to give more details, but was positive in his denial that anything similar or close to the e-fit drawn by memory by Mr. Simon Russel and published on the May 11 and May 10 editions of Daily Mail and Telegraph.com existed. (May 14, 2007 – 23:15)
Sky News: Portuguese Press is “deliberately” trying “to tarnish the reputation” of Madeleine parents
The Portuguese Press went “deep in the private life” of the McCann couple, following a “deliberately policy to tarnish their reputation […]” using information that is coming “apparently from Police sources”, according to Ian Woods, reporting from Algarve. (May 14, 2007 – 05:04 pm)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Most of the news about Madeleine McCann disapearence, in the Portuguese Press, "are best described as 'culhoes" (*)
- posted by Martin Brunt, Sky News Crime Correspondent, on his blog in Sky News Web page
Source Of Sources [..]
(*) – Obscene word, in Portuguese, for “testicles”
Best regards,
Journalist (Press Card nº 734)
Pjcv.reis@gmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: pjcv_reis
Windows Live Messenger: pjcv_reis
Gazeta Digital (http://gazetadigital.blogspot.com/)
How horrible for these parents to have their beautiful daughter abducted. But please tell me what they were thinking leaving their two year old children alone? TWO YEAR OLDS!!!
Has it been lost on everyone that these parents left their children alone to go out and eat? What kind of responsible loving parent would leave a 4 yr old and 2 two yr olds alone? While I hope that they find this precious girl well & hopefully she will returned safely, but these parents need to held accountable for their total lack of responsiblity. These people don't deserve these kids.
Why were 3 children under the age of 4 left alone in an apartment anyway? I feel very sad for the parents, but this was a totally irresponsible move on their part and they should speak openly to their mistake so that others may learn from it. I'll pray for her safe return and for strength for the parents.
Crippo - because such publicity doesn't help.
You want wall to wall pictures of the little girl and everyone wearing yellow ribbons? Might make more sense to do that in Portugal rather than in a different country.
Broadcasting it in such detail over here is just grotesque sensationalism.
a - you posted about "Missing white woman syndrome".
I'd like to know this. Does it just appear that child abductions happen more often to blond children - because they get more publicity? Or do child abductors prefer to take blond children? Were Sarah Payne, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman on the front pages just because they had long blonde hair, or were they taken in the first place because they had long blonde hair? ISTR also the suggestion that Ben Needham, a blue eyed blond toddler who disappeared, may have been taken to sell on the adoption market.
I'm 100% with you on this. Teh only person to have done anything wrong is the person or persons who went into a locked hotel room and stole a sleeping child they had no right to take. They are the criminals noone else.
For fucks sake, you're all arguing whilst somewhere a little girl is either scared shitless or dead. Either way, the person that took her is nothing short of evil.
Whether the parents made a mistake or not is not the point.
However doing everything humanly possible to try and find her is!
how can you say (Whether the parents made a mistake or not ) hut hum they made a big fuck up mistake not weather they did or didnt
100% the parents wanted a break well now they have it selfish parents
hope they find madding and give her to a foster parents that wil look after the kids unlike the real parents ...you never leave them alone
selfish parents
I'm sorry John, but you've lost the plot. Too close to home maybe, well-off, white doctors with cute kids, too similar to your own family?
Here's the deal. If this had been Sharon and Darren from Manchester, and they'd left their little twins and a 3 year old while they went to 'dinner' *cough*, while on holiday in their non-exclusive, no-facilities resort in Majorca, they'd be in prison now and the children would be in care. Extra time added for illegitimacy of children, children being of various ethnicities, or parents in receipt of any benefits.
The McCanns, who bought children like they bought everything else, left their three most valuable possessions unattended for up to an hour at a time EVERY NIGHT. I bet they didn't leave their credit cards and passports in plain view! There were free babysitting and creche services available, they chose not to use them. They left the french windows of their apartment OPEN, and then swanned off to eat. Between 9pm, when anyone last checked, and 10pm, someone took that poor, frightened little girl away. All of this because of the laziness, and stupidity of her parents. They didn't even contact the police for 2 hours. Again, if Sharon and Darren had done that, people would be saying "Oh plenty of time to cover their tracks and get their story straight"
Also, haw dare you say that a child, abducted by parents deemed unfit to care for her, is 'not really missing'. More kids are harmed by family members than by strangers. She's missing from her legal guardian and legal home, in the care of two people who have already had custody revoked, and in a foreign country away from scrutiny. She's missing.
I will not buy into the 'grief porn' over this one child, when thousands of others and dying here, and abroad, every day.
There may well be a discussion to be had about the rights and wrongs of leaving small children on their own – it’s certainly not something I’d ever do.
However, now is emphatically NOT the time to have that discussion.
Anyone who thinks the behaviour of the parents is a more important issue than the fact that Madeleine is still missing is a seriously fucked-up human being.
I agree with you Rob. The parents have already been punished enough and will serve as a warning to others.
If she turns up again, *then* will be the time to talk about appropriate punishment.
anyone who thinks that this missing girl is more important issue than all the other non-white non-photogenic children suffering in the world is a seriously fucked-up human being.
I hope you’re not implying I fall into that category, Matthew, by copying the style of my post.
I certainly don’t – the issue you raise is a very, very important one. I just think it’s quite wrong to be discussing the parents’ conduct while their daughter is still missing.
You should have installed CCTV in their bedroom - prepare them for the adult world
It's just so sad. It's like all those parents who leave kids unattended in cars, and they die. Either they freeze, or overheat, or get trapped in a window etc etc. Saying that the parents have 'suffered enough' cannot possibly make up for what the children go through.
I'm no-one special, just a middle-aged, middle-manager with a case of missing white-kid fatigue. The bank I work for is donating funds to this while laying off my colleagues, wars are happening, child slavery is alive and kicking, women are oppressed all over the world.
These people had more freedom than anyone else, and they extended it too far. The freedom to leave their tiny children alone unquestioned, because as middle-class, anglo doctors, they thought nothing could happen to them. They have lived in, and brought their children up in, a bubble. That bubble has now burst and it is only fair that they face all of the consequences.
A end terraced house we lived in with our two small girls had a shared entrance to the backs. There were two ways to go: left onto the road (just a back street but one of many) and right to a day nursery. The refuse collectors came early and never closed the gates - I always did this just in case. One morning I forgot. The day was heating up and I'd put out the washing - I never even thought about closing the gate. I was helping the eldest get dressed when a woman, an employee of the nursery, walked in with my youngest child. I hadn't even known she was gone! Luckily the little escape artist had gone right. She disappeared twice after that in shops - even though I was on alert. Just looking down to put something into a basket was enough time for her to go missing.
Just thought I'd share. She's now a gorgeous 12 year old and loves to hear these stories.
Remember a little girl is alone and frightened. Let's hope she gets to her family soon.
A colleague of mine was telling me about when his sons were younger - they were aged about 4 and 6 - he'd read them their bedtime story - HE fell asleep, and woke up a couple of hours later to find them playing in the garden!
OK Xeni. What would you have done to them that won't affect the other two children in their care?
Um, Doc, they didn't merely fail to check on their sleeping children. What they did was leave a child unattended in a home to go eat in a restaurant.
Your child wasn't in his bed. He was asleep somewhere in your home. Your wife and you were both home. You would have heard strangers' footsteps into the home.
If your child was the kind to wander out of the home, your wife wouldn't have left the door open. Ask parents of Asperger/autistic children who run what measures they take to keep their children inside.
Obviously it's terrible this child was missing, but it's not unforeseeable. People who wouldn't leave a diamond ring on the dashboard of their car will leave their children unattended. The fact that the parents did something stupid is a separate issue from the effort that should be expended to find the child.
Bah- as I've said, they've proven they are nor fit to care for children. They should have thought of all three of them before leaving them alone. Give someone else a chance to care for them.
A normal, working-class family would've been broken apart by this. If they ever got the kids back they'd have been subjected toy years of scrutiny by Social Services. Look at the family whose child, with osteogenesis imperfecta, had all of their children forcibly adopted because he broke a bone!
The truth is that the irresistible combination of wealthy white people+blonde photogenic toddler in crisis= media fap-fest. The council estate kid, of unknown parental origin, would have been long forgotten about, and his guardians would be pilloried by every 'news' institution in this land.
I must add that I am not heartless. I feel terribly sad for Madeleine and her predicament, but the way the parents are being virtually canonised sickens me.
Mrs McCann, as a GP, has a duty of care to her young patients. How many times has she filled in a Child Protection concern form for something just like this? Yet she couldn't be bothered to keep her own child safe.
The only surprise in this story is that only one child is missing, not three.
The avoidable death of a child is inconceivably difficult for a family to deal with. My step-son's sister died avoidably a few days after her 15th birthday. I hesitate to cite her family's pain in this thread because I was by then very remote from all involved.
However, the pain that I witnessed even at that remote distance, gives me a huge distaste for the sniping and know-better judgementalism that all these tragedies accrue and that are present in this thread. Unless you know from experience, you really don't know, and I am daily thankful that I only know at second hand.
Unless you are actively campaigning for the good causes mentioned, such as awarenes of human trafficking or child soldiers, you really don't have the right to cite them when you say that "too much" publicity is being given to the McCanns.
Of course the priority is for those involved to find the child.
However, I don't think it's wrong to discuss an issue arising from the situation: that of leaving your children alone in a house which you then leave. While it's very true that in an ideal world there would be no kidnappers, is it still true that in an ideal world we could leave children unattended and leave the house? In my opinion, no.
A number of comments left here hit the nail on the head:
KC Saul "People who wouldn't leave a diamond ring on the dashboard of their car will leave their children unattended."
- Precisely, and we all know which is the most valuable.
As for the comments about the status of the parents having an effect on the reporting and reception of the story - I couldn't agree more. It was hardly even apparent that the THREE under 4s has been left entirely alone to begin with. As the reality has been 'admitted' by the media, there are people proclaiming others insensitive if they dare mention that the parents WERE ABSOLUTELY AND UNDENIABLY in the wrong. We shouldn't just trust their judgement because their white/middle-class/doctors. They were wrong.
When someone asked me if I wanted to have children soon my main reason for not wanting any was: "Until they're at least 11 you either have to be with them constantly or have arranged for someone to be with them". I thought this opinion was the norm.
Xeni, if you read my earlier posts you'll see that I'm not a big fan of the media hype on this one either.
But if these kids are taken away from her then they'll likely be put into care. They're not going to better off there than they would be with their parents - and that'd be true no matter what class her parents were.
"However, I don't think it's wrong to discuss an issue arising from the situation: that of leaving your children alone in a house which you then leave. While it's very true that in an ideal world there would be no kidnappers, is it still true that in an ideal world we could leave children unattended and leave the house? In my opinion, no. "
Of course not. Kids wake up, they get up, they turn taps on, they stick their fingers in the electric sockets, they become unwell, they throw up, they choke, they slip and break a bone or fracture their skull... There's a massive difference between a toddler getting out of bed and going for a wander while the parents are in another room and unaware, and parents going out and leaving young children alone in a hotel room in another country.
It's absolutely unacceptable that those children were left alone - but surely the time for that to be dealt with is once the little girl is found, alive or dead. Of course the press are more interested in white, blonde, middleclass, photogenic children - but the answer is not to demand less coverage for Maddy - the answer is to demand equal coverage for every other missing child.
This all makes me so sad. I think there is a genuine interest in this story - as a parent of two beautiful little girls of 3 and 6 I feel sick at the thought of what that family are going through. I regularly check the BBC website to see if there is more news.
I think this needs to stay high profile. It can surely only help. And a much better use of the power of the media than reporting on c-list celebs from Big Brother or footballers.
I have holidayed at Mark Warner resorts before. I have regularly done exactly what that family did- left my children sleeping while I dined in the resort restaurant. I probably wouldn't do this at home - something about the relaxed atmosphere on holiday makes it seem acceptable. Would I do it again? Probably not. The McCanns will have to live with their decision for the rest of their lives - blaming them seems a bit pointless. They'll be doing that for themselves.
I am ashamed.
I am ashamed that so many correspondents feel that the parents are to blame, and not the person that took her.
I am ashamed that people feel that publicising the plight of one person detracts from the plight of others. If we can save one, we can save more.
I am ashamed of the kind of person that can suggest that the children of these parents are taken in to care.
And what is more, and possibly even sadder, is that I pity you.
You obviously know no better.
Publicising any one story removes airtime that can be used for others.
This story has monopolised all media outlets to the extent that other people's suffering hasn't been publicised at all.
I find it hard to see how you can deny that. I pity you your naiveity, if that helps!
I'm shocked by some of the comments here.
I'm a parent; once my son was briefly missing (on holiday abroad) and I will never forget that 15 minutes when I feared we had lost him - all the while berating myself for not having him clutched at my side all of the time. I'd expect there isn't a parent alive who hasn't experienced similar....
If you are a parent, you necessarily take risks, albeit ones you reckon are very low grade. If you never do, then that is a risk in itself, as you are likely claustrophobically choking your child. Being medics, the McCanns would have been well aware of the common hazards: ie RTA, falls, burns, scalds etc. and I'd hazard a guess they've been well alert for these. But for child abduction? Negligible, especially for young children with together parents. (most young-child abductions are due to an absent parent).
They made a choice which many parents do, and got horribly unlucky. I read somewhere that it would have been more likely for them to have been walking with Madeleine on a pavement and a car mount the pavement and kill her - what has happened is similarly exceptionally rare.
And for those who have a class fetish re the media, James Bulger and Sarah Payne were from working class families - and there was widespread publicity and widespread compassion there without criticism of the parents.
In similar scenarios to the McCanns', I've either taken the children with me or stayed with them, but no way will I criticise them - as I've probably taken equally rare risks with mine in some other way. As similarly Dr Crippen recounts with his son. Because I'm human, have to live in a world with nasty unpredictable risks, and because sometimes shit happens.
The culpability here lies with the low life who took this small child away and has probably harmed her. My heart goes out to the McCanns and for all some of the publicity is mawkish, I hope very much it results in her being found and returned.
People should consider their own glass houses before they lob stones on this one.
"Publicising any one story removes airtime that can be used for others"
But it's a massive event with major implications. And the publicity will likely bring about change.
For starters, it seems Portugal has laxer paedophilia laws compared with the rest of Europe, plus perhaps a different initial approach to this sort of crime. Its high profile and involvement of British police has potentially changed that, which has to be a good thing.
Plus, there is a real uniting of goodwill and compassion for the McCanns - maybe not on this haloscan sadly to say - but generally I believe this has been the case; that people really do care can help restore some faith in humanity, and reinforce the abhorrence rightly felt for those who would contemplate a crime as horrific as this.
"And the publicity will likely bring about change."
Rubbish. The publicity will do as much as past media frenzies have done.
This will blow over soon enough... until the next bit of what another poster has termed 'grief porn' comes along.
Absolutely Crippo - I find it all rather depressing that the curtain twitchers and finger waggers feel it necessary to denigrate the parents.
The family were probably having a marvellous time until they were targeted - what a terrible reflection of the predatory, and sinister nature of some adults that children cannot even sleep safely together in a locked room.
The comment about 'giving someone else a chance to care for them' beggars belief - haven't the children been terrorised enough, how is threatening to remove Mum & Dad going to help?
You know, I think at some level, you're rather enjoying this, Bah.
After all, here you are, on a site which has endorsed sympathy for this situation, and all you post is vitriol and condemnation.
I'd be interested to know if you are a parent?
For what it's worth, I'm a parent and a medic, am the lead for child protection in my GP practice and have often filled in pertinent reports on patients re this.
Re my own children, many of my friends think I'm overprotective. When my son turned up at a sleepover with a smoke alarm in his overnight bag, they no doubt thought me neurotic. I drive at a snail's pace when they are in the car, booster seats etc the lot. They have helmets and fluorescent tabards for cycling yet still I fret; I check their net-access; even in their teens I have a childminder at home for when they arrive from school, plus I chat with them and engage their confidence re ongoing teenage risks re sex, alcohol etc. I know I have the key risks well covered way more than the locales round here - but still, they've had the odd dangerous fall (in my care), plus one was briefly lost in town (in my care), plus one was briefly lost on hols abroad (in my care)
I know I am not clairvoyant, nor am I perfect. Nor do I want stulted overprotected mummies kiddies who are unable to attain independence. So, control-freak-medic that I am I have to allow some risk - in order to let my children live.
I refuse to believe the McCanns are bad parents - not because like me they are middle class medics (ooh, that's a dart many like to throw), but because the risk they took was absolutely negligible.
You cannot watch sleeping toddlers 24/7 - they can wake and silently wander throughout the house with all its hazards (and most fatal hazards are in the home) - without sleeping parents being aware. Their half-hourly wakefull surveillance was more effective than later in the night when they would have been asleep and unaware.
The odds of the McCann parents' actions resulting in harm were negligibly minimal, and they are surely suffering beyond compare. I cannot understand anyone who does not feel the greatest compassion for them.
I thought about declaring my 'parent status' earlier but decided against it: all it would do is allow people who disagree with me to call me a bad parent, so what's the point in that?
I am not at this site because it is sympathising for this situation, I am at this site because I'm a medic and read it regularly!
As for enjoying it, I cheerfully admit that I enjoy debate. But I have made my position quite clear with regards to sympathy for the family so I fail to see how you can equate my contempt for the media coverage with contempt for the family.
parents fault theres no excuse. When it come to kids ...no one in there right mind do that ..pity the other 2 kids didnt go as it was ( just come in and hekp yourself) i mean they should of left a sign outside
no no no excuse they are selfish no they got what they deserve1
get maddie back and when she is returned all three kids should go to a couple that look after kids
not just part time
Delilah, I've been thinking a little more and I've come to the conclusion that you're right about one thing: I am wasting my time here trying to discuss something logically when most people's approach to it is purely emotional.
So I'm done, I'll stop posting here and I will leave you to it.
I will leave you with a prediction though. When this current feeding frenzy is terminated by the girl's body being found, the mob will want to go somewhere else for their emotion fix. They will either turn en masse against whoever is currently suspected (He's evil! String him up!) or they will turn against the parents (They're bad parents! They shouldn't have kids! They should be struck off!). It really depends on who is easier for the media to paint as a villain, so I hope for the parents' sake that someone is charged.
We've already seen a bit of both on this thread already, but it'll be worse once the general mood is behind it. That's the problem with going down the road of thinking with your gut rather than your brain and why it should be nipped in the bud ESPECIALLY on emotive issues like this one.
And on that note, I am gone.
As a mother of two young children, 2 and 3, I have made may mistakes..... I've never intentionally left them unattended, but one incident springs to mind. I was sleeping and my youngest child woke me up at 5 a.m. This happens often and they usually just crawl in bed with me and fall back to sleep, but this time he kept saying something about his brother. Something in my stomach clenched and I got out of bed to check on him, but he was not in his bed. Thinking he had gone downstairs, which he has sometimes done, I walked down the steps to discover my front door wide open. I immediatley started screaming for my fiance, thier father, that A.J. was gone and ran out the door to find my son and my mother (who lives right up the street) walking towards me. He had gone outside at 5 in the morning and walked up to my mother's house, who thank god was awake, and knocked on her door. So, in those brief moments, I know the anguish and terror, that bone wracking fear, that Maddy McCann's mother is going through. All I could think was how could I have let this happen? Even though I know there was nothing I could have done to prevent it from happening, I still blamed myself. (My front door has a chain lock on it, high enough that they can't reach it, but at 3 A.J. was smart enough to push a chair over!) So, in reality, Mrs. McCann has certainly suffered enough, because I am absolutley certain she is blaming herself for what has happened. Should I have my children taken away from me because I was sleeping at 5 a.m. and my child left the house? I am not saying that what they did is in any way acceptable, however, I don't think now is the time to argue about it, nor do I think that now is the time to debate whether Maddy has gotten this much coverage because she is blond and goodlooking..... the most important point is that this beautiful, innocent child is MISSING! Wake up and stop trying to force your own selfish opinions on other people. Obviously you people are too jaded and self righteous to care about what's happening.... Oh, why should I care about her when there are thousands of others missing or dead or dying? IF MORE PEOPLE CARED, THERE WOULDN'T BE THAT MANY MISSING OR DEAD OR DYING! Take your self involved-self-righteous-intellectual bullshit somewhere where there are other people like you and discuss why the world sucks, because I don't want to hear it...... but remember, what goes around, comes around, and God forbid it ever be one of your children missing.
Bah, doesn't logic tell you that logic is actually rather feeble.
You, as a medic, will know that the frontal cortex is the new kid on the block and easily undermined when certain emotional conditions arise - try asking somebody to think logically after discovering their other half has been having an affair for the last 5 years.......with their best friend.
Logic did nothing to prevent Auschwitz, and, if you believe Dawkins, logic is impotent against the evolutionary purpose of ancient genes.
Millions of people do not CHOOSE to be affected by this story, they just are [and will be for some time], presumably you are too, since you have contributed so many interesting observations throughout this thread.
Can I be the first to start the bring-back-Bah campaign ?
As Nassim Nicholas Taleb points out in his book "The Black Swan", many (perhaps even most) important events are essentially unpredictable. Maddy's kidnapping fits this description rather well. Before deciding how culpable her parents were, we would need to find out how many other parents left their children for comparable periods of time while keeping a comparably close eye on them (or the building where they were). Show me parents who claim they never let their children out of eyesight, and I'll show you parents who are arguably overprotective. And even then, a child could be seized right out of its parent's arms.
Sad though it is to admit, "shit happens". It happens regularly, but unpredictably, and there is no foolproof way to guard against it.
"And the publicity will likely bring about change."
Rubbish. The publicity will do as much as past media frenzies have done.
++++++
Actually, Bah, on this point you may be wrong.
For example, someone mentioned the Sarah Payne case earlier and that has led directly to Sarah’s Law, giving controlled access to the Sex Offenders Register.
Now one can argue forever and a day about whether that is a beneficial change, but you really can’t deny that it is a change arising directly from those who refused to let the publicity about Sarah Payne just die down.
Similarly the Soham murders resulted in the resignation of a senior police officer and the Bichard Report on Child Protection Policy.
I am disgusted by some of the comments on here. There is a chance that this little girl can be found, all efforts should be made to do this, no amount of coverage or investigation will ever be too much. I wanted to come on here to leave a message of support for Maddies family - seems like I came to the wrong forum! Oh an Bah, just who are you and how can you state so adamently that that child is dead? I find you offensive not realist and I pray that nothing like this ever affects you or your family directly. Methinks you would speedily change your tune.
A & E charge nurse, I agree bah should come back. Lori, all efforts that can feasibly be made to find Madeleine are I rather think being made.
no amount of coverage or investigation will ever be too much.
I rather think if every newspaper and very TV channel carried nothing but this story right up to the day of its resolution (which could be years away) even you might retract your statement.
IM TRYING TO KEEP THIS GOING WORLDWIDE
WWW.MYSPACE.COM/FINDMADDIE
UPDATES ON BLOGS/BULLETINS AND PHOTOS COMMENTS ETC
PLEASE TAKE A LOOK
WE WILL FIND HER XXX
Well done to Dr Crippen for posting these links and pictures - the loss of a 4 year old is a horrible event.
I've read these posts with interest as - to my surprise - I have been starting to feel more and more ambivalent about her parents. Started off having nothing but sympathy for them, and the way they were pilloried...but...
My own children have been left alone on occasion. Their grandmother is Spanish, and they often stay with her in Spain - I know that when she's put them to bed, if its a warm evening, she'll pop out for a quick walk, maybe down to the cafe a few doors along to have a small cup of coffee, or to have a chat with her sister in the next street, or maybe pop up to her upstairs neighbour and sit on the balcony. This has never struck me as being unsafe - but then, my children are too young to get out of their cots, and her flat is on the third floor, in a building with only one entrance and a security guard...I think my attitude might be different if a child could get out of its cot, or was in hired accomodation. And I can't help wondering what the attitude to this family will be if it turns out that their daughter did get out of the flat by herself, wander down to the sea, and drown.
Maybe next time my children are in Spain I'll put a stop to this - and no doubt be blamed as the uptight British daughter in law!
But of course whatever the rights and wrongs of it, nothing affects the tragedy of a missing child.
At work today I had to read up on a rather depressing subject, and came accross the following newspaper article - see details of children at bottom of the page. (Hope the link works.)
http://news.scotsman.com/topics....06&
id=828432002
Perhaps it is a salutary reminder that the real threat to childre isn't "out there" - it is in their homes. I googled some of these children's names, and barely anything came up - they seem to have sunk into oblivion, their brief - and no doubt painful and frightened - lives forgotten as though they had never been.
Re: the couple of 'bring back Bah' comments, vaguely flattering though they were - I'm not going off in a sulk, I've just realised I've wasted far too much time pushing a very unpopular point of view here.
I'm a stubborn bugger so I know I need to let this drop now else I will keep on arguing my side forever.
I will still be reading the site and possibly posting to other threads, not gone off in a huff 
this can be dressed up any way we like..........the bottom line is this.had there been an adult looking after these 3 little darlings then Maddie would not be missing. I feel it's time Gerry and Kate showed a little humility by acknowledging what they did was crazy and stop all this circus surrounding them. This whole sad tale is being turned into a farce. My heart aches for ths little girl, please God she is found safe, and whether she is able to forgive her parents for this ordeal is quite another thing . As for there being no need to prosecute because they are going through enough, what about that poor little child and what she might be going through...if she is still alive. these people need a reality check instead of this pathetic display of POOR US.
I cannot comprehend what sort of person can take anothers child and i dread to think what they may have done to her.
Please find her safe and well.
What a horrible world our innocent children are growing up in. Will they ever be safe?
I sometimes wonder if i have made the right decision to have two beautiful children whom i love with all the world, when something horrible and vile could happen to them no matter how much i over protect them.
Please do not blme the parents, if it had not been Madeleine then it would have been another child.
I do not understand how people can say pray to god and he will save her, if there was such a god, he would not have made man, able to do these horrible things to children that we are reading about more and more frequently in the newspapers.
IF THERE WAS A GOD MADELIENE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN TAKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THESE VILE PEOPLE WOULD NOT EXIST!
IF YOU ARE THERE, THIS SUPPOSED GOD THEN PLEASE SHOW YOURSELF AND SAVE THIS INNOCENT, BEAUTIFUL LITTLE GIRL.
My thoughts are with the McCanns, i truly hope you get your daughter back unharmed and happy, do not blame yourselves. It is the perpetraters of this awful crime who are to blame.
In reply to those who say the story is overblown;
there is a lot of evil things going on in the world/ we cannot report them all/ this is one of the most serious evils although it only directly concerns on life and society will benefit by this evil being held up to be seen for what it is. Lamebrains who think there is something more important going on we need to know about (most of which probably are not good parents; if parents at all) are simply on a moral pedastal which they climbed using some mathematical formula not human understanding.
As for the case; POLICE PLEASE TAKE ALL POSSIBLE SUSPECTS AND LOOK TO SEE WHO HAS HAD AN ABNORMAL FAMILY HISTORY/ RELATIONSHIP WITH PARENTS/ OR BEEN ABUSED. GIVEN MR MURRAT IS IN A LOVE TRIANGLE PLEASE LOOK INTO THE FEMALE AND MALE'S FAMILY HISTORY WHICH MAY PREDISPOSE THEM TO HAVE SOME KIND OF PERVERSE OBSESSION. TO COMMIT A CRIME SUCH AS THIS (ASSUMMING THE WORST), I BELIEVE THERE MUST BE A BADLY DAMAGED MIND BEHIND IT. I WOULD SUGGEST YOU LOOKED AT MURRAT TRIANGLE; COULD THE OTHER PAIR HAVE SET HIM UP? NOT LIKELY BUT I THINK IT SHOULD BE LOOKED INTO IN THE WAY I SUGGEST.
I STILL HOPE FOR A HAPPY OUTCOME.
Have these negligent parents taken a lie detector test so THEY can be cleared as suspects? If not, they should. They look quite guilty to me and their lack of emotion is sickening!
I was shocked to hear just now from Nancy Grace at Court TV that these stupid, selfish negligent parents are medical doctors! Horror of horrors - if they neglect (or worse) their children this badly, I hate to think of how they treat any patients they might have. I would NEVER GO TO SUCH AWFUL HORRID NEGLIGET doctors such as them and this is all their fault. They have ONLY THEMSELVES to blame. If you want kids, then GOD DAMN YOU take care of them and stay home from your dinner parties.
I am just learning more about these despicable parents who have NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER! I hope they are persecuted to the fullest extent of the law and there should be no more money donated. If they themselves did not stage this "abduction" and murder their daughter, then they are extremely lucky the other two helpless infants weren't taken! There could have been a fire, or one of the children could have choked. These two bad parents deserve not one ounce of sympathy. They are evil selfish monsters.
As a mother of four, a 10 year old, 6 year old, and two toddlers, also a former preschool owner, I am both saddened and shocked at the same time. I would never leave my kids alone not even my 10 year old.
Our house burnt down in august of 2006, I was there, with all my children, my husband was at work, it was late, lightning struck. The house went up quickly. I got one child out of his crib just 30 seconds prior to getting the other baby out of his crib (two separate rooms)when going past the first childs room to get out, the first babies crib was already ablaze.
That picture forever haunts me. What if I had been next door? Or even 100 yards away?
I truly feel for the McCanns and that poor little girl, but I am so tourn as to how you could leave your most prize possessions in the world alone.
I truly pray for Maddies safe return, and then I think the parents should be brought up on charges of neglect and abuse.
bah aslong as thier is something to say maddie should be front page news ten days is nothing i wont forget her not even in ten yrs u cruel person
I am finding it hard to sleep and eat without thinking constantly about poor little Madeleine. I am a mother and although I would never have left my children alone, the parents are paying a high price for doing so already.
Poor Madeleine is paying an even higher price perhaps.
BUT this little girl needs to be found, safe and well. She doesn't deserve to be ignored just because she is one more missing child. She deserves to be front page news until she is found. She is just 4 years old. If this were MY child or yours, you would want the same thing. You would do anything it took to find them.
So all the moaning about it staying in the news and people fed up of looking at her picture, think what you would feel like if this were YOUR little girl.
Hope you are found soon Madeleine, thiking of you.
I agree with all of the comments about the kids being left on their own while I feel for parents if they had done this in the uk they would be in serious trouble maybe they still will be! I am British but live in the USA and I have been asked if all UK Mums think that this is ok. No it's not I would never have left my children to swan off and have dinner even to my next door neighbours!! under no circumstances!! If you choose to have children then they are your responsibility they cannot fend for themselves,they could have had dinner with friends in their apartment or they could have asked the friends to sit if they had wanted some alone time I pray that it will turn out alright in the end for Maddie in particular, and then I think they need to be looked at as parents and maybe given some advice on how to look after children!!
sigh...bring back bah.
He/she made everyone so defensive about their emmotional support for the missing child-(read sensationalist morbid curiousity).
No guesses how I came by this site...
and because I'm from a totally non-anglo background, the only thing jarring is the extreme media savviness of the parents. I'd have thot most mothers would be INSANE with grief and guilt.. owell, its the corporate way to do things i guess and god knows u cant trust the bumbling cops of "less developed nations"
& as for Madeleine, I hope they find her. But after so many days, we'd be fools to think she was somewhere safe.
if she's not with her parents, she cant be safe. either ways, i wish they'd just find her.
ciao¬
I feel sorry for Madeleine....Parents should be incarcerated. They are much worse than parents incarcerated for leaving kids with grandma and grandma not picking them up. They did not arrange anything at all!
I can't believe they would leave a 3 year old in charge of two 2 year olds "home alone" without even arranging a nanny or sitter...even if they claim they are 50 yards away or only a phone call away.
This is fast becoming like some sort of TV reality show and the speed and professionaism with which the Team Mc Cann and its 'fighting fund' swung into action has left me feeling very uneasy. It seems to me that the focus has ceased to be about Madeleine and become the Kate and Gerry Show with all sorts of extended family being responsible for production,finance and,of course,PR.
I wonder what the Press and public reaction would have been had it been Jade Goody and her partner who had taken the deliberate decision to leave their very young family alone and unattended while they stuffed their faces in the tapas bar?. Vote (a) for sympathetic and(b) for opprobrium.
Its very smart PR campaign to keep madeleine on top of everyone's mind, but i think they need to understand over-kill and public fatigue. (which is showing)
Yes children abducted from homes is tragic, but now McCann's family wants to put M's pic as a bookmark in Harry Potter latest releases!
This is about creating an URBAN LEGEND, not finding a daughter. Face it None of us will ever see madeleine- or even if we did we wouldnt recognise her.
what if her hair was coloured black/shaved/curled. If she's gained/lost weight.
I think its time to accept. To pray. to work for other children.
I am a South African citizen and regularly watch an actuality program called Carte Blanche on a tv channel called M-Net. Last year the program featured an article about a gentleman (I think his name was Danie)in Bloemfontein here in SA who claimed that he can find missing people by using their hair. His claim sounded so unlikely that my immediate reaction was complete scepticism. However, after watching the program I changed my mind. He says the technique he uses is based on science and has nothing to do with anything psychic,black magic or other methods of that sort. He did not explain in detail exactly how he does it and at the time I didn't pay all that much attention anyway. The presenters of the program were sceptical too and to test his claim they asked their photographer to give Danie a strand of his hair and then they told him to go off somewhere to any place of his own choosing to see if Danie would be able to find him. The photographer took himself off to a nearby cemetery (why a cemetery I don't know!) and sure enough Danie found him there. After this, I took some hair from each member of my family (even the dogs) and put it away safely in case one of them ever went missing. When I heard about little Madeleine's disappearance I did not immediately think of Danie, but remembered about 3 weeks later. I contacted a lady named Billie who is one of the producers of Carte Blanche and asked her whether Danie may not be able to help find the little girl. She told me that Danie is only too willing to assist, but unfortunately they cannot get anyone to take them seriously. They have contacted the family's lawyer, the Portuguese police, the British police, Sky News, and even Maddie's uncle amongst others, but everyone thinks they are just crankpots and and will not even entertain the idea of telling Maddie's parents about this as they feel that any such outlandish claims will just hurt the family further. This is very frustrating. I understand people's wish to protect the family from further pain, but at the same I feel that no stone should be left unturned in the search for this little girl and I feel the parents should be able to decide for themselves whether or not they would like Danie to try and assist. I'm sure that they must have a small piece of Maddie's hair even if it only a strand from her hairbrush. If the method he uses fails to find her, what harm is done? I know that if one of my children went missing and someone was able to possibly help find my child I would be terribly upset if I was never made aware that such possible help was available. If anyone out there could please assist in getting this message across to Maddie's parents please call Billie in Johannesburg South Africa on (011) 886-8899. We are just well-meaning people who are trying to help reunite this little girl with her family.
As far as I am concrened Kate and Gerry failed that beautiful little girl. How can any parent go on holiday and leave a three year old and her 2 year old siblings alone (leaving the patio doors open) in their beds whilst they go off to eat dinner with friends????
Bottom line if they had used the creche facility that was on offer,or better yet, one of them had stayed behind to look after the children then none of this would have happened
If Gerry and Kate were people of colour, white working class and unemployed living on some council estate the media/British public would be tearing them to pieces!!! And those two year olds would have been put in to care!
There would be none of this out pouring of sympathy for the parents, no appeal from A-list celebrities. NOTHING!
I read an article in Saturday's Daily Mirror, and it turns out that Kate and Gerry didn't actually check on the children... their friend's checked on the children for them and one "friend" didn't go in to the apartment to check on them.
(have the police even bothered interviing/investigating these "friends")
My prayers/thoughts go out to Madeleine. Her irresponsibe parents parents.. I have no time for!
The McCanns are wealthy people, they have no right to beg for money from those less well off than themselves. Nobody else could afford to give up their jobs for as long as they have. What about Gerry's patients? Presumably they are well down in the pecking order of concern. I reckon the majority of Middle England is now heartily fed up with the ongoing publicity, none of which has resulted in anything significant. I just hope that someone (hopefully poor and needy) does find her and claim the substantial reward money put up by the rich colleagues and well-wishers.
It is, of course, a tragedy when a 3-year-old is abducted. However, from what I understand, she was kidnapped while ALONE in a room with her TWO-year-old siblings. Why has nobody blamed the parents? Why would they leave three kids under 4 alone in a hotel room?
I wonder when the time will come that Dr.C has to rescind on his pledge to keep photo+bumpf on the front page?
Of course, I sincerely hope she is found and that she doesn't need to stay in the public eye.
She has been missing 54 days, and don't we know it. Not a day goes by without hearing of it.
No, this is not the worthiest cause to be covering.
Yes, there are more people suffering in the world.
No, other people's children, not so posh, shall we say, will not get the same coverage when they are kidnapped or lost on holiday.
And no, saying this does not make you an evil person.
What an obnoxious bunch of jugdemental morons you have the misfortune to have read your quality blogg Dr C. Heartfelt support to the McCanns in their dreadful plight.
David, grow up! I hope you never have to deal with anything so horrific.
What a load of bollocks.
The McGrubs are terrible examples of parenting and should be prosecuted. At the very least, they should have to attend parenting classes.
The day you put Tapas and alcohol before the health and wellbeing of your offspring is a very bad day!!!!
Just to add....
No-one I have spoken to has suggested that because 'Gerry and Kate McCann made an error. It is their fault. So we need not bother to hunt for Madeleine'.
That is absolutely absurd.
It seems many people have Maddie's welfare at a higher priority than than St Gerry....who is so busy organising business meetings and writing a blog when he should be seen to be doing more to find his little girl! He has three quarters of a million quid at his disposal, you'd think that he may hire some PI's in Portugal and her neighbouring countries but no, he'd much rather spend time with a publicist, campaign manager, chief fund raiser, events director etc, etc. Does he not realise that the public are getting a little tired of the repeated public relations exercises (stolen wallet, man who fell ill on the flight etc). Has this man no shame? Is he being advised to do the things he does or is he usually this much of a prick??
As for error of judgement....does neglect fall under that category?? Afterall, they chose to leave their children all alone on more than one occasion during that holiday....that's not a mistake, it's neglect!
Are these the kind of parenting skills that an NHS GP and consultant cardiologist recommend to their patients or do you think they have a duty of care to report them to the authorities?
I could go on listing the McGrubs failings in parenting and their 'campaign' but it defeats the object. I just want Maddie found safe and well......
Though I wonder if the McGrubs will be able to ever look her in the eyes again and tell her they did everything they could to:
A: Stop her from disappearing???
&
B: Get her back quickly???
I am amazed, and somewhat flattered, that my comments have been singled out by Dr C for publication on his front page. As many have said, some of the details just don't add up. For example, why do the McCanns wish to referred to as "Mr & Mrs" when they are both doctors and not surgeons? I'm a regular visitor to Praia da Luz, was there between 10th and 17th May, and "word on the street" was that the McCann's apartment had been left unlocked on that fateful evening, so the child could simply have walked out on to the street at any time.
Dr Kildare's comments about the chhildcare skills of the McCanns is appropriate in the context that medics seem to have set themselves up as paragons of virtue in that respect. Last night's BBC Panorama programme highlighted the plight of the Webster family who have lost two children permanently to adoption because of flawed medical evidence. The courts chose to believe the doctors rather that contradictory evidence from a health visitor and head teacher which were suppressed or ignored. At least the McCanns have some prospect of getting their daughter back, the Websters have no hope at all.
Sometimes we all have a burning urge on our hearts for a particular cause. Because this is Dr Cs doesn't mean that all that is going on in this campaign is "right" or that it will suit all tastes. Better than criticise, I say to the detractors, "find your own cause and go for it".
Thanks Dr Judy.
I have a burning urge to help find Madeleine safe and well.
I also have a burning urge to condemn the actions of her witless parents who clearly neglected their children and as a result, placed them at severe risk.
Therefore, Maddie gets my full support but I don't see why I should have to sugar coat the actions of her parents who acted with a bizarre amount of selfishness....if that makes me a 'detractor' so be it, but in my opinion, all those who fail to condemn the actions of the McCanns, support them, and that sends out an extremely bad message to other parents.
What on earth is happening to the NHS these days eh??? Not long passes between stories of Dr's playing God, mass murdering patients, supporting child neglect and trying to blow up the country....
Are these the standards you have set for yourselves Dr Judy and Dr C??
will everyone stop being mean to madelines parents it was not their falt she went missing
i think madeline's parents need all the support they can get right now and i realy hope that maddie comes home and i will pray ever single night.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
@lorelle ellis:
Why wasn't it Madeleine's parents fault then? I would love to know the answer to that one.
We've heard lots of speculation about abductions and all sorts of pacts and conspiracy theories but 'speculation' is the key word there as nothing as yet has been proved.....
Oh, apart from the fact that Madeleine's parents left her and he siblings alone most nights of their holiday, in an unlocked apartment, surrounded by strangers.
Why isn't it their fault?????? Deep in my heart, I know they didn't plan on losing their daughter but they have to shoulder part of the blame for placing them in direct danger like that and making them so easily accessible to potential predators.
If someone took Maddie, they need to be bought to justice with the maximum serevity possible but the FACT of the matter is, Maddie would be safe and well if her parents didn't neglect her.
FACT..plain and simple l'il FACT.
Kildare
PLEASE BRING MADDIE HOME NOW
The 4 years old Girl Maddie needs to be back home now with her parents and get their beautiful child back safely.
PRAY FOR THE SAFE RETURN OF INNOCENT CHILD TO HER PARENTS
GOD BLESS MADDIE AND HER FAMILY
Well, the McGrub fund now stands at something not far short of £1m, donated by and large by people earning far less than the negletful parents of Madeleine. I just hope that the McCanns remember the donors when they spend this money on expensive trips to America, luxury accommodation in Portugal, etc, etc. Very little has been said about how this newly-acquired fortune is actually being spent!
Hi
Madeleine when kidnaped had 180 police officers in her search.
Those kids had 10 or even none searching.
Can u plz put in ur page the banner of my blog about portuguese kidnaped children?
http://www.myspace.com/
portugues...eselostchildren
This is not a joke,it's very serious.
Thks for all u can do for them.
By the way...police officers know from the begining that Maddie is dead.
Just couldn't say it till search all clues they had.
Why the investigator chief gave an interview to BBC(ordered by his superiors) before talk to Maddie's parents,saying she may be dead?
Could all of the supporters of the McCann Family please join with me and support the family spiritually in its time of crisis by send them a Family “Blessing from God” certificate from the website www.godsblessingsforyou.com
The McCanns will gain great strength and comfort when they receive one of these tasteful Blessing from God complete with your personal best wishes.
Reverend Thomas
"When this current feeding frenzy is terminated by the girl's body being found, the mob will want to go somewhere else for their emotion fix. They will either turn en masse against whoever is currently suspected (He's evil! String him up!) or they will turn against the parents (They're bad parents! They shouldn't have kids! They should be struck off!). It really depends on who is easier for the media to paint as a villain, so I hope for the parents' sake that someone is charged."
Looks like a combination of both of those options at the moment!
It seems worthwhile to consider a few points that in some cases have already been mention. Firstly, it is undeniably terrible what has happened to this little girl ( for lets face it it is very unlikely that she is still alive!!), yet this whole case has been blown out of all proportion, mainly by the media. She is one child who has suffered in a world were millions are living and dying in appalling conditions. Secondly, whatever sympathy you have for the parents, at some point in the future Social services should be looking into the abilites of the McCann's as parents. If this was a couple from a sink estate i have no doubt the welfare of the remaining children would already be a burning media issue. De facto and in law the McCann's are responsible for the disappearance of their Child; they have at the very least been neglectful of their duty of care which comes with the privilege of parenthood. Thirdly, and put quite bluntly, they did it!! I dont know the details but right from the beginning something looked all wrong with their body language, their courting and of the media, and to be honest their utter unwillingness to acknowledge any culpability whatsoever in the disappearance/murder of their daughter. I am as certain as i can be there will be some macabre twists and turns involving the McCann's before this is all over and, i suspect, some portions of the media have instinctively picked up on this and are waiting for the 'real' story.
Read body language,study peoples facial expressions.
Please help me to help the McCann Family in its time of crisis by sending them a Family “Blessing from God” certificate from the website www.godsblessingsforyou.com
The McCanns will gain great strength and comfort when they receive one of these tasteful Blessing from God complete with your personal best wishes.
Reverend Thomas
Dear Kate, Gerry and not forgetting the children. I just felt I had to tell you we are praying every day for you and for darling little Madeleine. All I can say to all those very cruel, nasty, vicious people and their comments of "I never ever make mistakes attitude" is as Jesus said "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone". Looking for little Madeleine has got to be our top priority, people don't seem to have any thoughts or feelings for a scared, lonely little girl. I wish you only the very best in your journey to finding Madeleine and we will continue to pray for you all.
I don't know Madeleine but I still find it so heart breaking.Don't ever give up its not to late is it? I am just a child I know what it feels like. Once I got lost for ages on holiday too in Devon. But I never gave up trying to find my mum.I know madeleine is making an efort to come home. Madeleine is always is in my heart. I got lost when I was eight now I am nine. Don't panick we will find her some day soon.
Madeleine if you can just hear this come home one day, The whole world wants you back
My suspicions that the Parent's are
implicated in the disappearance of Madeleine increase almost daily.
The father, I think, shows more and more signs of being a Sociopath...and therefore quite capable of anything.
God bless you Madeleine..may you gain
your Justice soon.
http://the3arguidos.net
open discussion on the mccanns all welcome.
For the real facts see www.truthformadeleine.com
Check out these children who are missing from the UK, most people havent even heard of them. http://www.bebo.com/
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