Well done! Mind if I link this post on my site?
By all means. Feel free, A_R.
It has never ceased to both amaze and disgust me that she can openly hatemonger as she does without being called on it, yet when celebrities make anti-Semitic remarks as Gibson appears to have it is an international story. Coulter is the high priestess of hate IMHO and anyone that does not recognize this let alone considers her writings worthy of consideration has for me at least demonstrated an acceptance of hatred as legitimate. I oppose hatred regardless of target because it has no redeeming qualities to it, it not only destroys the target it eventually destroys the person doing the hating from within.
This is a good post Dawg and I suspect I also will be making reference to it in the near future in a post of my own at Saundrie. Thanks for this.
I'm gonna have to disagree with the whole "in vino veritas" thing.
I've seen/heard a whole lot of people in recovery from alcoholism who said stupid things that they really did not mean when they were drunk and were just looking for some way to lash out and reached for the quickest thing off the top of their head to verbally assault somebody with.
You will not disagree with me about the idea that my fellow Aboriginals have both problems with "holding their liquor" and with diabetes right? Well... I've had many many experiences with both kinds of situations where somebody has said something either under the influence of alcohol or under the influence of low blood sugar levels that I would classify as unbelievably cruel and horrible commentary, either about myself or others.
As I noted on my blog post about the subject... the diabetetics barely remember what was said in pre-coma states, and when it's a relative... they are generally so ashamed of what they said, they are abjectly sorrowful and deeply sorry for their excesses and such, that an apology for their previous night or week, or last month's behavior (some of which they can't remember either due to alcoholic black-out) -- that they can barely look me in the face to apologize.
I make things very simple for such relatives who indugle and for whom this kind of thing is problematic. I don't spend a lot of time visiting such relatives during those times of the month when it's either payday friday, or cheque-day for social assistance. Or ... if I absolutley have to, I make such visits first thing in the morning, before the "party" really moves into full swing.
If I took every drunken tirade by every person I met both on reserve or off, (including that of my adopted non-native mother) seriously -- and really believed that they actually believed the shit they spewed when deep in their cups -- I'd simply be a frigging basket case by now.
But then again, that's one of the things that ALANON has helped me with, in my recovery from growing up in a dysfunctional home with an actively addicted alcholic parent. You have to learn to "love and detach", and refuse to enable, while you watch them spiral ever downwards towards more and more insanity.
Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part... but having heard the most outrageous vile crap come from my adopted mother while she was sloppy drunk... things like "she wishes she had never adopted me" and such... I am pretty much immune to the blatherings and ravings of flat-out drunks at this point.
The one positive thing I see about Mel Gibson is - he at least recognizes at this point he's got a bloody problem and is getting treatment. Most "succesful alcoholics" (functional alcoholics) can go a whole lifetime spreading a hurricane of destruction and wasted relationships in their wake without ever coming to such a conclusion or seeking help to stop.
I'm pretty big on the "credit where credit is due" department,
As for Ann Coulter... (as the main thrust of your post) -- Gibson was blowing a 0.8 while tooling down the highway with an open bottle of tequila as a companion when he made such vile commentary.
What the frig is Coulter's excuse?
PS dawg, I was going to write to you more privately about your post about adoption that you made many months ago.. where you objected to the idea that adoptees should reconnect with their family of origin. That such people were selfish people, who had no thought in the world about the disruption they would be causing in the lives of the birthmothers.
But I held off, because I could see it was a subject you felt very strongly about, and I didn't want to get into a contentious argument.
If you grew up in my adopted home... you'd understand the need I felt at a certain age to start looking for my birth family.
As both an adoptee in a closed adoption, and a birthmother in open adoption proceedings... I agree very much with you that if birthmothers do not want to be contacted that their privacy rights should be respected.
I was fortunate in that, because my mother had passed away, this was pretty much a non-issue, and both my siblings and my grandfather and several of my aunts and uncles had spent years looking for me, and were delighted to find me. I was not adopted at birth. I was with them for the first several months of life. They absolutley wanted me back in their life even after 20 years.
But even when searching, I made it clear to those who I asked for help and in my appeals, that if my biological family did not wish contact with me, that I would respect their wishes completely and was well prepared emotionally to not be greeted with open arms should that be the case.... and this is something that I caution ALL adoptees about, when they pop up back in birth parents lives.
I've only ever heard one interview of her, where the host actually had her number and stymied her. It was brilliant! It was a radio interview in TO, so sadly, there is no transcript.
In the States, they continuously have her in the MSM and fall into her trap, of 'try to argue my rhetoric'. She's (choke), brilliant at the art of debating rhetoric. This is what she has honed her skill at.
She is by far one of the most vile individuals I have ever witnessed. Should she be called on it? Absolutely, but until the US get's serious about reporting vs, 30 sec. sound byte stories, it'll never happen. Too sad.
Oh, yeah. There was one other reporter who 'got her'. Sorry, I forget the dete's, but it was a CBC broadcast (TV) and she was bemoaning the fact that Cda hadn't followed the US into Iraq. She said, "you were with us in Viet Nam". The reporter corrected her, and she said something like, "you're wrong, you
were there". Gotcha!
She doesn't write on fact...she's strictly fiction and a bad writer at that!
Good post...thanks for letting me vent about a person that I cannot believe inhabits this planet.
Coulter is simply the reverse of Linda McQuaig.
Mark
Ottawa
You are incorrect in stating that Coulter has not expressed any anti-semitism. It may be true that she has never said anything bad about Jews, but I must point out that Arabs are also semitic peoples. So her anti-Arab comments are anti-semitic.
Mark, that's coming perilously near to trolling, not that this sort of thing is something I've always avoided myself. McQuaig doesn't promote hatred for a living. There is simply no comparison. A more realistic one would be Coulter=any spokesperson for the Spartacists.
Meaghan:
Here's my problem: I agree that people exaggerate, make wild statements and act stupidly when they're drunk (or enraged). But that doesn't mean we can entirely ignore the form taken by drunken or enraged outbursts or actions.
Marc Lepine was a madman, for example, but what shaped and focussed his rage? He and his actions can't be neatly isolated from the social matrix of which he was actually a part. He demonized "feminism," blamed it for everything, and went on his mass killing spree. It didn't just come out of the blue.
By the same token, where did the references to Jews in Gibson's outburst come from? I suggest, not thin air. These are images and ideas that gave form to his outburst, and they are clearly anti-Semitic in nature. If I were pulled over by the cops, that's not the topic that would come instantly to mind while fumbling for my license and registration. : )
On the adoption front, I am softening on the idea of mutually-agreed-upon reunions, although in many cases I still maintain that such searches are neurotic (you read the comments on that thread, and can see that for yourself). The circumstances of adoptions are too varied to make blanket judgements, as I have admittedly done in the past on this issue. But we really aren't that far apart: my main concern was that such reunions must indeed be mutually agreed upon.
Stephanie: You are technically correct, of course, but we need to allow the word "anti-Semitism" its common-or-garden popular meaning. Coulter has never uttered a word against "the Jews," if you prefer, but I think readers would not be confused by my earlier words.
knb: Here's a video you might enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X...lter%
20Hardball
Love you all. What the world needs now...
Actually, Dr. D, the interviewers seemed to rip BOTH Ann &... whoever the Sheehan apologist was.
I dunno. I'm supposed to be "rightwing" but I just can't read/listen to the Coulters & the Limbaughs of the world (or the Sheehans, for that matter).
Dr.Dawg: Actually I thought the Hippo made her living promoting, if not hatred, then fear and loathing of PM Harper and President Bush.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/
cs...st1022182710415
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/
cs...st1022182710415
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/
cs...st1022182710415
And so on ad infinitum and nauseam.
Mark
Ottawa
Gibson vs. Coulter is not a particularly good comparison. The media went after Gibson for his newsworthiness.
> major Hollywood figure
> weathering the “anti-Semitic” storm from his Passion movie
> the initial DUI story was big but when it turned out the police doctored the reports it got bigger
Coulter does her abrasive thing all the time and it’s hardly newsworthy any more. Mind you they did publicize the leftist attack on her for her verbiage on the Iraq widows.
I’ll point out that Hamas and Hizb’allah are hard-core annihilation-bent anti-Semites that both enjoy a mix of tacit and overt support from many on the left, the UN, the EU and the Muslim world. The media pays very little attention to their anti-Semitism.
You’re making something out of nothing here.
Gibson vs. Coulter is not a particularly good comparison. The media went after Gibson for his newsworthiness.
> major Hollywood figure
> weathering the “anti-Semitic” storm from his Passion movie
> the initial DUI story was big but when it turned out the police doctored the reports it got bigger
Coulter does her abrasive thing all the time and it’s hardly newsworthy any more. Mind you they did publicize the leftist attack on her for her verbiage on the Iraq widows.
I’ll point out that Hamas and Hizb’allah are hard-core annihilation-bent anti-Semites that both enjoy a mix of tacit and overt support from many on the left, the UN, the EU and the Muslim world. The media pays very little attention to their anti-Semitism.
You’re making something out of nothing here.
greenmamba:
I heard you the first time. : )
What patent rationalization, if I may say so. If Coulter's diatribes aren't newsworthy, why is she on new programs every week? Why do her best-sellers sell?
The media spend a great deal of time on Hamas and, more recently, Hezbollah, and their anti-semitism, too, although the latter, like the various memes I have noted before, is usually taken for granted.
The fact is that anti-Semitism is the most negatively-sanctioned bigotry in our society today; I gave proof positive of it; and your hand-wave dismissal indicates to me that you haven't grasped the obvious. Perform, if you will, a thought experiment: imagine what would happen to Coulter if she made an anti-Semitic remark that was publicly reported. Would she be on Fox News this week?
Mark:
That's really lame argument. Being critical of a politician and his party is a few quantum leaps behind public statements of racial hatred. Surely you aren't seriously suggesting that the two are equivalent.
Dr. Dawg: sorry about the double post - no idea how that happened and I was only half-way through the bottle.
You may say "patent rationalization" but only because it's your blog. I felt that your argument was the same thing.
What would happen if Coulter made an anti-Semitic remark? I don't know. I do recall her once making a negative comment about Jews. I can't find it but I remember agreeing at the time.
And what exactly would be wrong with anti-Semitism being the most negatively sanctioned bigotry? (I'm not arguing that it should be. I'm just asking.)
greenmamba:
No problem. I've done the same thing, on water and fresh air. As for "patent rationalization," I'd say the same on your blog.
: )
I would like to have in hand Coulter's "negative comment about the Jews." I'm actually a little surprised that you would find yourself in agreement, whatever it was. I would think that a benchmark test of anti-Semitism would be attributing a negative trait to Jews as a group.
All bigotry is wrong. On what basis would it be "wronger" for some groups than others? I might suggest the relative inability of some groups to defend themselves as well as others. No bigotry should be tolerated. But I'll make the observation that, in 2006, North American anti-Semitism ain't what it used to be, and the community is well-organized against it, somewhat more so than (for example) Roma or Aboriginals or even Muslims. There is far more sympathy for the Jewish community over-all, something that arises rather directly out of the Holocaust. It seems to me that public racist remarks against other minority groups are at once more tolerated and less likely to result in serious consequences. Coulter proves my point all by herself.
Dr. Dawg: Every cultural group has things that can said be said about it, good and bad. You probably know Russell Peters, but if not: http://tinyurl.com/n8qfl (Warning, 45 minutes.) It all depends on the scope of one's experience with the group and the level of generalizations being made.
As for some bigotry being "wronger"; if there were a movement to re-enslave Black people for example - hard to imagine today, I know - I would be all over that and would not tolerate much criticism of them (Blacks) if I thought it could enhance that movement.
In a North American sense, I agree that Jews seem well protected but there are a great many buts.
The Muslim world is seething with anti-Semitism & the same Muslim world has a large measure of control of the UN and has oil and France.
Anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe. In France Jews are advised not to wear religious symbols for their own safety. Some reports say police are reluctant to follow up on anti-Semitic incidents.
Speaking out against Jews is fast becoming mainstream. By way of example here's an article with some translation of a piece by the author of Sophie's World:
http://www.solomonia.com/blog/ar...es/
008909.shtml
...We no longer recognize the State of Israel. ...the State of Israel, in its current form, is history.
We don't believe in the illusion of God's chosen people. We laugh at this people's conceits and cry over its misdeeds. To act as God's chosen people is not only stupid and arrogant, but a crime against humanity. We call it racism.
The piece I quoted is not only anti-Semitic but does not separate Israel from Jews the way you do and that's why I've come to the conclusion that Israel and Jews are not really separable, no matter what you, Israelis or Jews may think.
Two major but forgotten points about the rise of Nazism were: the total fixation on Jews and their use as a binder for the German population and the fact that Germany was in all senses, a modern country the way we consider ourselves today. When people raise the fact that more Russians died or that Gypsies were killed they totally miss the point.
Coulter is simply the reverse of Linda McQuaig.
Dawg..at some point, you've got to realise that this jerk doesn't say anything useful. Sure, he keeps your comment count up, but at what price? The guy's an idiot.
So's Candace, who wrote this:
I dunno. I'm supposed to be "rightwing" but I just can't read/listen to the Coulters & the Limbaughs of the world (or the Sheehans, for that matter).
I doubt Candace has even bothered to listen to Cindy Sheehan. I hadn't either, until about a week or so ago, when I observed Cindy Sheehan being interrogated by Norah (Noron) O'Donnell. Sheehan presented herself with grace, civility and above all, some understanding of what she was talking about.
Comparing her to that to the lying, hate-mongering shrew that is Ann Coulter is, quite frankly, ludicrous.
The Muslim world is seething with anti-Semitism & the same Muslim world has a large measure of control of the UN and has oil and France.
Load. of. Crap.
Greenmamba, return to home base. You're shilling has become counter-productive.
/AIPAC
Ti-Guy
/OPEC
Ti-Guy: "The guy's an idiot." Perhaps, but not on this scale.
http://www.damianpenny.com/archi...ved/
007230.html
Mark
Ottawa
Ti-Guy - I don't know how you missed Cindy Sheehan last year, she was all over the papers in North America (not just the US), and rarely "presented herself with grace, civility and above all, some understanding of what she was talking about."
Her son volunteered, and re-enlisted. He believed in what he was doing. It appears she did not.
We can agree to disagree on this issue, but YES, I have listened and read what she has written, and I am less than impressed.
Let me know if you'd like links.
Well, I'll put all of my cards on the table, T-G: I like having intelligent right-wingers around here, because I get bored easily. I like debate and differing points of view. I don't share your opinion of Mark Collins, even if he gets a little playful at times: he's well-informed on a number of issues, and writes provoking articles over at Damian's, which, among right-wing blogs, is one of the more wide-ranging and generally civil ones. (I won't say the same of their often appalling visitors.)
Candace, too, is always welcome here. She's pretty mild for a conservative, really, closer to Andrew at Bound By Gravity than to (say) the truly grotesque caricature presented by Richard Evans.
As for greenmamba, he seems more thoughtful and reflective than I had thought at first, and I hope he comes back to expand on his notion of anti-Semitism a little.
What I'm trying to say is that there is plenty of space between the shimmering, dazzling pure Left of our own humane vision, and the jack-booted, destructive, heartless anti-human Right. : ) I hope that we can keep our discussions over here generally civil and based upon ideas instead of personalities, not that I always succeed in reaching my own goal.
OK, all: carry on.
Sorry, but sometimes I think it's hopeless talking to them. The Sheehan thing is a case in point. It's been an endless circus of smearing that, above all, has little to do with Canadians, and yet you see the Right in Canada parroting the exact same rhetoric.
I don't have a problem with conservatives, intelligent or not; I just find the endless repetition of Republican talking points and the wholesale adoption of Republican ideas to be completely useless (and distracting) for Canadian politics.
I swear, it's a total mystery to me what they would actually talk about if they didn't have access to American media.
Ti-Guy: if you actually bothered to look at my guest-posts at "Daimnation!" you will see that a large number are based on Canadian MSM. Those on foreign affairs are usually based on the US MSM (NYT, WaPo, LA Times etc.) because their foreign coverage is several times superior to the Canadian media's.
If you can cite any "Republican talking points" in these posts I would be most grateful. Frankly, your comment simply reflects your prejudices not reality.
Mark
Ottawa
greenmamba:
Every cultural group has things that can said be said about it, good and bad.
Let's put that declaration in parentheses for the moment. I'm more interested in your notion of a "cultural group." Are Jews really a "cultural group," or many such groups, each of which has its own history, traditions, even language?
In fact, I wouldn't mind exploring that polysemous signifier "Jew," but I find it difficult to approach this topic without arousing suspicion among those already prone to suspicion. If you want to investigate the notion in a genuine spirit of enquiry, then let's proceed.
Ti-Guy: if you actually bothered to look at my guest-posts at "Daimnation!" you will see that a large number are based on Canadian MSM.
Well, I'm certainly guilty of that since I avoid that blog. Too many instances of ridiculous things being posted to make it worth my while.
Credibility is a defining factor when I choose to invest my time to read what people have to say. In a world awash in information (so much of it very bad), you have to draw the line somewhere.
Ti-Guy: Are these ridiculous?
"Somalia is getting overlooked with all the other crises"
http://www.damianpenny.com/archi...ved/
007253.html
"Stupid Conservative defence promises"
http://www.damianpenny.com/archi...ved/
007252.html
"Daily Afstan update"
http://www.damianpenny.com/archi...ved/
007251.html
"Another photo kill"
http://www.damianpenny.com/archi...ved/
007249.html
"Hugo's messiah complex"
http://www.damianpenny.com/archi...ved/
007248.html
Mark
Ottawa
I don't know.
...what? You want me to read them? Not a chance. Anything with a Pajamaline logo I avoid out of principle. Sorry; can't forgive the WMD thing.
In any case, I can read the MSM articles on my own. I don't really need the extra commentary and rightwing slant.
Dr. Dawg,
Personally, having watched decades of sensationalized media stunts', aka, 'marketing hype' from Follywood stars I could not care less what mel Gibson, said, was alleged to say, did, alleged to have done, or will do.I even like him as an actor.
Beyond that role he is just another person on a planet of 6 billion.
Gibson at least registers on my awareness lobe which Michael Jackson and Paris Hilton DO NOT!
Follywood is a nest of dysfunctional morons with some talent, like savants, able to do something well enough to gain recognition, but not able to function in the real world we all have to.
As to Ann Coulter, if I met it in a bar I would be very wary about what equipment it was concealing!
Ti-Guy: You won't see this in the MSM; no commentary.
'Rae: "I will go to Korea"'
http://www.damianpenny.com/archi...ved/
007298.html
Mark
Ottawa
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