We here at the Canadian Alliance of Theocrats are constrained to point out that your use of medieval Christian imagery and references to southern U.S. science curricula may have slightly deflected your readers from recognizing which of our branches is likely to be behind this. Perhaps the aggrieved club could file a human rights complaint that could be heard together with Ezra's case.
A friend of mine withdrew from a graduate course at WLU after being told, point blank with sneer, by prof and students alike, that white male privilege was good, minorities really ought to have no voice in public discourse, and Canada should fully join the US, and that my friend as a member of a minority had no right to complain about any of it.
Funny, the Campus Crusade for Christ has a mission to recruit new Christians on campuses including WL. they are charged, according to one kid that goes to my wife's church, with actively recruiting and converting Muslims. Their raison d'etre is to create a "fulfilling life without Islam"
Or to create a fulfilling life without reason.
Or to create a fulfilling life without evolution or science.
Yeah, we had better make sure the atheists or free thinkers don't get club status.
Maybe they ought to let the people at the Skeptic's Society know about this. I'm sure they might have something to say...
This is an unusual case. Usually, it is campus pro-life and assorted religious conservative clubs that are denied official recognition (and accompanying funding, ability to use campus facilities, etc.).
Court challenges in the US have nearly always handed left-leaning school administrators their butts on a platter for this kind of censorship-by-bureaucracy. Hopefully neither right nor left will have to contend with this nonsense in Canada.
I am always impressed at the level of deference shown to the student and college administration. What, pray, prevents these enlightened souls from starting their club without official sanction?
Jay, the right to operate on campus, to post flyers and posters, the right to office space, the right to an official email address for their club, access to the university network, to web hosting, to part of the funding that is handed out based on student club fee levies...
I'm going to guess there are more reasons, but those are ones I can come up with off the top of my head.
Cameron - it would be interesting to see a campus club claim the non-material stuff as a matter of "right". Freedom of association and expression per s. 2 of the Charter would, I suspect, cover access to campus and postering. Then argue "discrimination" on the office space/funding/web issues.
But, more to the point, why not just set up the club and use basic guerrilla marketing to promote it. Use the denial of official club status for max PR.
At the most general level this is a rather good example of the "licencing mentality". In essence you have to get official approval to do or say anything. Which is not how free people work.
Nice Winehouse tune!
Jay, I'm not arguing with you, but I'm saying that there are benefits to having the official club status.
The funding alone is a big deal.
Jay:
Unless being licenced and officially recognized is the entire point of the exercise, as it seems to be for most atheist societies, Muslim prayer rooms and lots of other popular causes.
Peter, that's a point as well. Official recognition in and of itself can be a political aim.
Boris: I wonder whose course that was, and if the prof and other students would give a different account of their interaction with your friend.
The university's decision was wrong, but I think can see it's logic. Most universities have clubs for various sport. Imagine someone proposed an Anti-Sports Club: they might well be ignored as mere troublemakers.
Btw, Dawg, smearing LWU as "Bob Jones North" is hardly fair, especially when addressing our American friends, who can't be expected to know better.
IP, but this same university has a Campus for Christ thingy, probably various other faith based clubs etc etc...
Sorry, I don't understand.
cameron, presumably IP's point is that the existence of sports clubs on campus shouldn't oblige the university to recognize a club dedicated to convincing everyone exercise is dangerous or foolish. A club dedicated to exploring natural philosophy is one thing. A club dedicated to shouting at the world about what murderous, superstititous nerds the religious are is something else.
My all time favourite example of demanding legal recognition for a cause no one is interested in was the battle in the 1990's for the right of women to go topless. If you recall, it became a national cause for progressive folks. A huge demonstration on Parliament Hill featured an "unveiling" of some of the righteous for the cause. (Boy, did they learn a lot about men that day.) Finally the courts pronounced on the side of equality and the evil patriarchy went down to a high-profile defeat.
Well, it's been a decade now and I think if one were to set out looking for a topless woman, he'd have better luck in rural Alabama. Yes, yes, I know, that wasn't the point. But can someone remind me what the point was again?
Peter.. thinking is good?
Btw, Dawg, smearing LWU as "Bob Jones North" is hardly fair
Allow me my occasional moment of hyperbole.
And see the WLU's mendacious response in my "upperdate," above.
Dr Dawg, my hearty congratulations. Surely you have uncovered the ultimate in postmodern Orwellian doublespeak--an office of student diversity that only permits inclusive clubs.
Like the Campus Crusade for Christ. Did you skim a little too quickly, there, Peter?
No, I'm on your side here. The pat on the back was sincere. I'm just marvelling at Adam's written logic and wondering if he has convinced himself.
Hermetic thought is the best thought for Adam.
Sorry, Peter, I misunderstood. I'll have another cup of coffee.
*A commenter thinks this sobriquet is unfair. He's no doubt right. Call it a measure of my irritation with the handling of this whole affair.
Granted, but this is a little extreme don't you think? Indulging in such incivility, intemperance and irresponsible rhetoric can only lead to disaster. What's next...the c-word?
Check yourself!
...; )
IB,
Sure, but I don't think I'd subscribe to their perspective ; )
Diversity Co-ordinator? Orwellian, yes, but an oxymoron, surely.
Nice catch, Em, I missed that one.
Lest we remember that by previous title this institution was known as Waterloo Lutheran Seminary/University.
So although they like to think they have changed with the times, I am very sure that the wheels of evolution are moving oh...so...slowly there.
Not to say that they shouldn't check themselves and get with reality.
Either allow all types of societal, religious clubs or none.
it's not rocket science.
Peter: Yes, I think that was WLU's logic. It's logical, but it's still wrong. The concept of total inclusiveness that they are pursuing is suitable for Kindergarteners (maybe) but not university-aged adults.
Though I myself am a religious fanatic, I recognize that there is an impressive intellectual tradition in atheism/free thought. If some kids want to spend their Friday evenings watching Richard Dawkins videos, they can do it till their eyes bug out, as far as I'm concerned.
Welcome, Shannon.
This does remind me a bit of the dismissal of Professor Jacques Flamand from the nominally secularized University of Ottawa in 1970. His crime was to have criticized a papal encylical, advocated the taxation of Church property, etc.
Shannon, I think there's basically zero church influence on WLU's club policy. What's going on is a kind of PC/ultra-niceness.
BTW, when I was at UWO in the mid-80s, their inclusive club policy meant that nationality-based clubs had to be open all students. This resulted in the Malaysian club having a majority of Hongkong students; they'd broken away from the official Hongkong club because they're found it too stuffy or something.
There is no indication whatsoever that the proposed Freethinkers Club would deny admittance to Christians or adherents of other religions.
Dr Dawg:
What!? We've just had two decades of university political correctness and rigid speech codes against racism, sexism, thisism, thatism, etc. and the first thing that pops into your mind is a forty year old story about a forgotten professor who wanted to tax the Church?
You've got to get out more.
My point was in response to Shannon's. The common theme is institutional inertia--secularization doesn't take place overnight. Flamand found that out; and so have the freethinkers of WLU.
This resulted in the Malaysian club having a majority of Hongkong students; they'd broken away from the official Hongkong club because they're found it too stuffy or something.
I was at UWO in the mid-80's. You mean the "Country Club of Ontario Universities" was a steamy hotbed of PC-controversy...and I missed it?
This is a time-honoured cause of the righteous in opposition whose tune quickly changes when they gain power. C'mon, nobody really believes tenured civil servents should have an unfettered right to run to the press and challenge the government. "Who elected you?" wins the day every time.
To the extent that this cause as any more traction than it ever had, it is because of the modern myth that civil servants, particularly scientists and statisticians, are custodians of "facts", i.e., objective, eternal truths above sordid politics that the sneaky polititicians are trying to hide for nefarious purposes. Anybody who works closely with bodies of government scientists will be disabused of that notion PDQ. DFO fish scientists, anyone?
Still, I am enjoying the thought of Dr. Dawg leading Canada's next progressive government and being repeatedly blindsided by "experts" in the Department of Health feeding the press daily with statistics on the reality of Canada's healthcare.
Sorry, obviosly that comment belongs at the post below.
Ti-guy, there was some basis for that "Country Club" image - the student council reflected it to a loathsome degree - but obviously it was a complicated institution like any other. At that time, PC as we know it had not really emerged, but there was plenty of radical feminism about, as well as the anti-nukes movement and so on. I never picked up the slightest PC vibe from any of the foreign students I knew, mostly non-PRC Chinese.
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