Wow 18 a year! How many murders have there been per year during that same time period? It seems to me you have a better chance of being killed by a cop in BC then being the victim of random murder.
It reminds me of the old Clash song, Know Your Rights:
You have the right not to be killed
Murder is a CRIME!
Unless it was done by a
Policeman or aristocrat
The CBC Vancouver 6 p.m. television news gave extensive coverage to this. It looks to me that assault-with-a-deadly-weapon and obstruction-of-justice charges are in order. The young teacher from Victoria who took the video and went to court to get it released in the face of police stonewalling deserves our thanks.
If you are appalled with Robert Dziekanski's killing then write to your MP asking for an inquiry into the roles of the RCMP and the airport authorities in the matter. A sample letter and the email addresses of the MP's has been made available at http://justice4robertd.blogspot.com
Spread the word.
I have questions. How long was this man in the airport before the cops got there? When was the last time he had anything to eat or drink? When did he last have access to a bathroom? What was the temperature inside the glass? What medication was he supposed to be taking? And when was the last time he took it?
Apart from why there seemed to be no translators, all those questions are important.
[Doc, I'm getting a "duplicate post" message along with a refusal to pub my comment. Are you moderating comments? I don't see where it says that...]
Chimera: You seem to have arrived here safely. I don't moderate comments.
I think your questions are relevant, although they don't go to the police behaviour seen in the video. What is that object that one of the officers keeps jabbing down on him, incidentally (part 2 of the Van Sun video)?
In any case, some of those questions have been answered. He was in the restricted area for about ten hours. There is a bathroom in that area, if I recall correctly, and the temperature there is not excessively hot or cold. I think he went a long time without food. No drugs or alcohol were found in his system. I wasn't aware that he was on medication.
I didn't think you were moderating comments, but I was having some trouble getting Haloscan to publish. It kept telling me that I had "already said that..."
That object in the second video appeared to be a nightstick or baton. I was wondering the same thing. If the taser was so effective in subduing him, why would they need to hit him with a stick?
The questions I asked about food, water, and medication were pertinent to my own observation of the video. At the beginning of the first part, he can be seen to be hyperventilating and nervous/agitated. He seems to be in the middle of a panic/anxiety attack. I recognize the symptoms from personal experience with it. His propping open of the doors might have been to cool the room down. Or he might have started to feel claustrophobic.
If he was supposed to be taking meds for panic disorder, and he didn't take them because he had no access to them, then he's not only going to be highly agitated, but he's not going to be able to control his agitation.
And even if he did take meds (if he needed them), but didn't have any food to mitigate their effectiveness, again, he would be agitated. I also know this from personal experience.
This video didn't give me any answers, just more questions.
Chimera - Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get the gist of where your questions are trying to go.
Whether the guy was hungry, or hot, or unmedicated, or whatever, it still doesn't mean the cops should immediately take him down like prey. Part of a cop's job is knowing how to deal with agitated people and de-escalate the situation. One of them should have called for a translator while the others talked him down a bit.
Some other links:
Robert Dziekanski's last moments
The Death of Robert Dziekanski
Mark
Ottawa
Mark: I'd already linked to Aaron's post. But thanks for the surprising other one. Where are all the conservative statists defending the RCMP?
Who wouldn't be panic stricken and agitated under those circumstances? We don't need to rehash scenarios that blame the victim. We had plenty of that when the story first broke out a month ago.
I am so grateful for that video. It proves that the media are too quick to create speculative motives for police action and the RCMP fall automatically into "cover our asses" mode. The video proves that the official story was all lies and speculation.
I'm glad public reaction is outrage, shame and sorrow, as it should be. And thanks to all progressive bloggers that are keeping our attention on this most important story.
Thanks muchly for the acknowledgment, Doc.
/doffs fedora
" Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get the gist of where your questions are trying to go."
What you're missing is the same thing I'm missing -- information. You don't have the answers, and neither do I. Are they relevant? They might be. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.
"Part of a cop's job is knowing how to deal with agitated people and de-escalate the situation."
Not really, no. These days, a lot of what we used to take for granted are now specialized jobs with specialized training. If none of the cops on the scene had had that training -- and had only the three-hour information session at the Justice Institute -- that might be a reason the situation went as badly as it did.
"One of them should have called for a translator while the others talked him down a bit."
That gets my vote! At the point where they confront him, everyone was saying that he spoke Russian. Someone said it, and everyone grabbed that opinion as if it were a solid fact, and that was all they knew. That was bad. It was the only piece of information they had, and it was wrong. Did one of the cops try speaking Russian? And did he react to Russian as a nationalistic Pole -- with a show of hostility? What actually happened that we could not see? Or hear?
It's little details that get caught in the opinion machinery that I'm trying to avoid. I'd much rather wait until I know a whole lot more than I know now.
But if it turns out that the cops were cowboys on a power trip, and they did what they did just to show that they could, then I'll be front and center with a rope, tying a noose.
Chimera:
I think you may be misunderstanding a little. Questions are good. There are no stupid questions. But the video answers any serious, core questions, and most of yours have already been answered as well.
I don't think you're rationalizing what even the Globe and Mail has termed a "summary execution." But for those of us who believe our lying eyes, your questions do seem like a bit of a distraction, even if the answers will fill out a narrative.
Fact: the out-of-control RCMP has killed yet another innocent person. We should be asking questions, with respect, about governance and accountability. I, for one, don't give a damn about the temperature inside the luggage area. Time to disband a rotten institution, and bring those four killers to justice.
"But the video answers any serious, core questions, and most of yours have already been answered as well."
With all due respect, that video answers nothing. Watching that video was what made me think of all those questions in the first place.
Doc, I'm not asking my questions just to hear myself talk. Or type. And if I already had the specific answers I was looking for, why would I ask again? I mean, I've heard of people doing that, but I'm not one of them. And I am not trying to defend or justify or any other damned thing. I'm just trying to find out why it happened that four cops felt that one man presented a big enough danger that they used a taser, but not enough danger to use their firearms.
The temperature might be important. Robert Dziekanski was sweating. Why? Was it hot in that room? Or was his body undergoing a physical reaction for reasons of which we are not aware? He was propping open the door. Was he feeling claustrophobic? Panicked? Was he in withdrawal (and new information this morning seems to point to yes as an answer to that question)? Was his blood sugar out of whack from lack of food?
This might be useless information to you, looking at it from the benefit of hindsight. But something made those cops use a taser instead of anything else, including their firearms. They were reacting to something. What was it they saw, or thought they saw, that made them go for their tasers? What do the CCVC cameras show? And what happened or didn't happen that the cops might have missed seeing?
I'm all for demanding accountability. But before we demand accountability for this, don't you think it would be a really good idea to know of whom we have to make demands and why? Is it only the RCMP that have to answer for this? Or should we also be taking a look at Customs, Immigration, Security, and maybe others?
You seem to have an over-all hostility for the RCMP in general. Could it be that some past experience is coloring your opinion, here? Do you seriously expect anyone to say that all RCMP members are killers, and out of control?
Doc, this is a quote from that last link you put up:
"Simon Fraser University criminologist Neil Boyd said the video does not show what police had been told before they arrived on the scene at the airport.
"The public tends to react to criminal justice events in a kind of tidal wave of emotion, and often very bad, unusual cases end up creating criminal justice policy. That worries me," Mr. Boyd said."
Emphasis mine. And this is why I'm asking.
Do you seriously expect anyone to say that all RCMP members are killers, and out of control?
Huh? No, I'm saying the four cops who killed Dziekanski are killers, and that the force as a whole is unaccountable, out of control, and needs to be disbanded. The four young killers are just a symptom of a disease. I've posted before about Ian Bush, and about pepper-spraying an infant, and there is much, much more. Browse through my blog by all means. Here's a synopsis: http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com...d-rcmp-
now.html
And do ask your questions. I hope you get answers before this wretched outfit
kills again.
Four cops are killers. Maybe. I don't think any of them intended for this to happen. But even if they did intend to kill, how does that translate to our needing to disband the entire force? Yes, I've seen your previous posts. All bad situations. But none of them can be laid at the feet of the entire RCMP membership.
I do think that in this case, the involved four need to be put on strict desk duty until all the questions have been answered. And if anyone deliberately stepped outside his mandate, he needs to be dealt with in no uncertain terms.
I hope I get answers, too. And when they get here, I hope people actually pay attention. It gives me a bit of an itchy feeling, watching my friends who are cops looking over their shoulders, waiting for the ambush they're pretty sure is coming. Bad cops are a tragedy. Dead innocent cops would be a disaster.
Chimera:
As you saw from my previous posts, the rot goes to the top. The fact that these killers are still on active duty says a great deal.
"Dead innocent cops?" What kind of a red herring is that? So far, since 1992, in BC alone, the cops have killed 18 people a year.
Don't you want to stop this carnage?
Seems a little OT, but since you ask, Doc:
How many of those 18-per-year dead were actively trying to take on the cops? How many cases were suicide-by-cop -- in which case a cop either has to strike or risk death himself. In how many of those cases was the life of another citizen at stake?
None of my friends who are cops have ever been involved in a citizen death. Why would you wish harm to people who are just trying to do their jobs the best way they know how?
It's always easy to look back on a done deal and say, "They shoulda done such-and-such." Sure. Like they've got all the time in the word to explore all the possibilities and make up their minds.
I dunno where your angry passion is comin' from, Doc, but I tell ya, right now, I'm sure glad I'm no longer in uniform!
Why would you wish harm to people who are just trying to do their jobs the best way they know how?
Those four thugs in the video killed a man, Chimera, by shocking him repeatedly and then sitting on him until he was dead, after he had offered them no resistance whatsoever. His last words on this earth were a plea for help: I want to get out, help me find the way…Police! Police! Can’t you help me?
Stop trying to make a case for them. It won't wash. In a perfect world, all of them would do hard time.
I don't "wish harm" on cops doing their duty. Lord knows, it's a tough enough job that we ask of them. But the RCMP as an institution is wildly out of control, and these vicious thugs are a symptom of the disease.
It's too easy to dismiss me as some kind of cop-hater, as you seem to be doing. If I am, then most Canadians, at this point, are in the same neck of the woods. My "angry passion" is based upon ten minutes of video showing what even the staid Globe and Mail called a "summary execution." And upon the fact that a mother is without her son tonight. And upon the fact that the RCMP lied through their teeth about the events until the video became available.
No apologies here for being either angry or passionate. You should be, too.
Very well put Dr. Dawg.
Most public response including editorials from mainstream press has been angry and passionate. It's not just a fringe group of Canadians crying foul this time.
Doc, I am angry. But I'm also dismayed at the number of otherwise intelligent people who are wholesale jumping to conclusions on an olympic level without knowing all the facts. Ten minutes' worth of video is not enough evidence on which to base a case of any kind. I most especially do not want to rely on any media source such as the Globe to tell me what I should be seeing or how I should be reacting!
I haven't dismissed you as a cop-hater. Don't put words in my mouth, please. I was just wondering what was the specific trigger that seems to have set you off in this direction.
I'm a member of the Ottawa Witness Group, formed after police attacks on unarmed, peaceful demonstrators in Ottawa in November 2001. We observe police during major events downtown. We have had the opportunity to see police in action on many occasions, and there often appears to be little tolerance in their ranks for public dissent. Montebello, with its agents provocateurs, is just the latest local abuse.
So when I see with my own eyes a frightened man being quickly dispatched by four thugs, and I see some otherwise reasonable people asking me to doubt my own ability to see, I get irritated. What more do we have to observe? What could possibly justify this homicide? You are asking me to substitute a faith in authority, or at least a willing suspension of judgement, for what I have actually watched, over and over. On what basis should I doubt my lying eyes?
These people broke every rule in the book. Use of force. When to deploy a Taser. Not restraining a shocked person in the manner they did, which may have caused asphyxiation. Not attempting to revive him. Good grief, these guys are poster boys for how not to do police work. And I base that judgement on statements that are flooding in from law enforcement professionals, active and retired.
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