How could anyone who has been threatened with beheading say how "respectful" his captors were? Did they ask him politely if they could have permission to slice his head off? Boy, the way people delude themselves....
anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.16.06 - 9:27 pm | #

I actually think that the quote in question was fecetious: I've heard it referenced as such elsewhere.

Another great example of the issue in question was when Robert Fisk claimed that the Afghans who beat him up were entirely justified in doing so.
The Bunnies | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 12:40 am | #

Maybe the terrorists offered to use a clean blade (to avoid infection).
Ben USN (Ret) | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:07 am | #

I'm curious; what is the approximate percentage of abused children who go on to live healthy and productive lives, with little or no long-term negative impact from the abuse? And why?
Ben USN (Ret) | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:12 am | #

> I was just watching an episode of Firefly

On a lighter side note, the movie is one of the better ones from last year (an admittedly weak year, but it's a good movie by any stanard)
Oh Bloedige Hel | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:29 am | #

Abuse as a child increases your risk of most psychiatric diseases (and that is dependent on how young a child is when the abuse occurs--the younger, the worse prognosis). It also impacts that elusive concept of "self-esteem" and interferes with normal adult relationships in various ways. They are much more likely to develop problems in various areas of their life; much more likely to abuse their own kids; much more likely to have problems with impulse control etc. and much more likely to develop personality problems. Having said that, the vast majority of those abused do not show up in psychiatrist's offices; jails, or hospitals. They can be emotionally "impaired" to a degree (problems with trust, relationships etc.) but they muddle along in life like most people.
Dr. Sanity | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 8:37 am | #

Thanks Doc.
Serenity was an excellent movie BTW.
I hope they make a sequel.
Ben USN (Ret) | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 10:34 am | #

Dr. Sanity, have you been following the Canadian election campaign?

I would love your diagnosis.
Deborah | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 11:44 am | #

I think part of the coping mechanism is the mind's conclusion that being as nice and 'normal' as possible with the bloodthirsty is the only way to save oneself. So you project your own civility on them.

After all, when dealing with people with little compunction, it becomes apparent that bluster and aggression on the hostage's part would lead to death pretty quickly. It's not like you can shame them into letting you go, or challenge them to a duel or fair winner takes all fight. They're cowards - and have serious chips on their shoulders to boot, so bluster will get you killed.

So the hostage is as nice as possible, smiles, cooes, assures them of 'understanding' and empathy to their motives, etc. etc. and in a sense wills or wishes them to be as reasonable and calm and sane as the hostage is, since that is the only condition which would lead to release and not execution.

Once free, it's hard to suddenly shift to anger and aggression - since their opposites were the emotions that saved your life.
John | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 11:46 am | #

"Personally, I would say anything (even lying, if necessary) and do anything--right up to the point where it would betray my own fundamental values, without which I am not myself anyway) in order to survive."

You are speaking as an adult, right?

But, as I understand it, for a child, it is this very thin and fragile line which, when crossed, becomes the 'splitting' in the developing child's self which too often then leads to Narcissistic Personality Disorder in adulthood.
meade | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 1:27 pm | #

meade - narcissistic personality disorder occurs when there is a disruption in object relations severe enough and traumatic enough to interrupt normal development. One of the values of "play" for children is to explore adult themes and concerns and experiment with ways to deal with those concerns in a safe environment. I'm not sure what you mean about a "thin and fragile line", but the child's self is a fragile thing and there is much that can disrupt it. Adults are already mature (i.e., they have appropriately developed narcissism or defects in their healthy narcissism). In the latter case--where there are defects--the person is more vulnerable to identification with the aggressor. However, even normal, psychologically healthy adults may regress to more primitive psychological strategies in a horribly traumatic and dangerous situation. Those who are psychologically healthy to begin with will perhaps have an easier time coming to grips with what happened to them (I can imagine some situations which would be almost impossible to bear--even if you were healthy).

Not sure this answered your question.
Dr. Sanity | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:20 pm | #

I think that by coincidence one the things you wrote in your post "What Really Matters" highlights this phenomenon.

You wrote:

"suppressing free speech if it happens to "offend" anyone who is a member of an accepted victim class (in which Islam has resided since 9/11)."

Before 9/11 Islam was not a member of a victim class - I well remember getting an e-mail from a leftist friend on 9/10 (literally) protesting the Taliban's treatment of women, and then this leftist friend's rushing to the defense of Islam on 9/12 (literally).

The American left did just what you describe - they let their fear and humiliation take control of them and caused them to distort the reality of what happened to them (and all of us) on 9/11. Result - no hatred of Osama et al, mega-hatred for President Bush, the leader of the fight against those who the left began 'normalizing' and 'identifying with' on 9/11
max | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:33 pm | #

Excellent post. I've written a bit more, here, on the subject of whether the abused child ends up becoming an abuser or not.
neo-neocon | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:42 pm | #

If I understood your post correctly, what I meant by "the thin fragile line" is that point at which a child "would betray [his] own fundamental values" and create a false self because his true self (which holds his fundamental values) is so traumatically threatened by abuse, abandonment, etc.

I didn't really have a question and I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I just wondered if there might be a connection between NPD and the "Stockholm Syndrome."

Interesting post and thank you for your reply.
meade | Email | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:42 pm | #

"Once free, it's hard to suddenly shift to anger and aggression - since their opposites were the emotions that saved your life."

Douglas Wood had no problem doing so. He was roundly condemnedby the media for it, too. (I would have posted more links to media reactions, but Blogget didn't like having too many links in one comment.)

I think a large measure of the reluctance to condemn hostage takers after the fact stems from peer pressure from liberal / leftist friends, as well as from the ultimate peer group, the international media.
Tatterdemalian | Email | Homepage | 01.18.06 - 4:27 pm | #

Let me answer Ben USN -and hi from another Navy Vet.

About 20% are genetically susceptable to long term PTSD (every one gets it short term from trauma). Our drug "epidemic" is largely an epidemic of untreated PTSD.

In other words our drug war is in effect the persecution of the traumatized.
Is Addiction Real?
M. Simon | Email | Homepage | 01.21.06 - 7:52 pm | #