Once Iran has nuclear weapons, the aggression and attacks by islamic terrorist groups will drastically increase. We ain't seen nothin' yet. Iran has massive energy contracts with China. That = cash which = support and money for terrorist groups the world over. It is quite simple really. Once armed with nukes, no action can be taken against Iran for their direct involvement in the spread of terrorism and the destabalization of smaller nations not under their control. They will openly do so and brag about it. Greedy business interests and cowards fear confronting Iran, but once Iran attacks Israel with nukes, Israel will retaliate. The disruption of commerce and civil society then will be catastrophic and immeasurable. It could well push some nations into complete anarchy, which of course is needed for islam to spread itself, just like cancer.
goesh | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 8:22 am | #

They can't have nukes. Israel will never allow it.

Israel is fighting the West's fight right now.
The Atheist Jew | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 8:28 am | #

I am starting to think that the source of the continuing problems in the ME, Iran and NK is really the US Government. I believe that by continually pointing out the source of the problems we face and then doing nothing about it, because trying to negotiate with lunatics or religious fanatics whose stated aim is our destruction, it is doing exactly nothing to solve the problem, and the Government is undermining its own position. A rational person cannot fail but draw the conclusion that the lack of action signifies that the problem is overstated or non existent. If Iran is in the process of developing nuclear weapons, and the only question is when will they have them, why is the Government delaying dealing with the problem because the passage of time is only increasing the chances that they will have nuclear weapons? I fail to see how that is to our advantage and their disadvantage!!!
Luc | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 9:19 am | #

Luc, maybe the US govt is trying to finesse the lack of world support to do something about it. We know by history that the UN will do nothing worthwhile to prevent Iran from aquiring them but the clueless world will nevertheless clamor for the UN to take control. I think there is a strategy and that Israel is doing just what should be done (and something we cannot do). That's my take anyway.
AnotherGuy | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 9:48 am | #

I forget who said it but there is one definition of diplomacy as the art of saying "Nice doggie, nice doggie" to a growling, barking, snapping dog as you grab a big stick.
Jeff P | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 9:59 am | #

But why do the French happily do its (Iranian's) bidding? Where is the money gain for the frogs?
always right | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 10:03 am | #

How does Ahmadinejad think the UN can implement a cease-fire without US support?

Oh, wait, nevermind. I forgot about the great diplomatic minds at Foggy Bottom who would think that having our closest enemies accept our assistance is a diplomatic coup and not an act of rank insanity.
Mikey NTH | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 10:13 am | #

I'm taking Katrina, 9/11, and ready.gov to heart and building up a pantry with all the stuff we'll need to last 1 month without resupply - and I know dozens of families who are doing the same...the more 'robust' the American population is, the less likely a terror strike could disrupt our 'way of life' but the more 'just in time' we live, the more dependent on instant access to ATMs, food, and the local CVS...the more we're begging to be hit.
John | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 10:26 am | #

Why do most people give the mad iranian president a free pass? Imaging the same words out of Mel Gibson's mouth!

Why is there not an out roar? Just because we think he is mad? Do we equate madness with celebrity's eccentricity, and laugh it off like that?

Who (Ahmed-whatever or Gibson) holds more power, therefore much more dangerous?
always right | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 10:40 am | #

Ahmadinejad is no fool- his rhetoric and drivel appeal to no one- EXCEPT THOSE IN THE ARAB WORLD.

He wants to be perceived as a 'hero'- and his has succeeded- but only in that part of the world where dysfunctions reigns.
sigmund, carl and alfred | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 11:27 am | #

I'd love to know why Iran's posession of one (1) nuclear weapon, with limited delivery options at that, would totally paralyze a nation with thousands (1,000's) of nuclear weapons and the proven ability to deliver them. Iran gets one nuke and that's it? Game over? They win? On the hypothetical possibility of one small nuke being somehow smuggled into a U.S. city, we're going to sit on our butts and let all of western civilization be taken down by our enemies? Then we should just make it easy on them, use our military budget to buy airline tickets and fly to Tehran and present our heads.
lmg | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 11:33 am | #

Today on true colors TV... the nutty Iranian...
Fistandantalus | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 11:35 am | #

I wasn't going to say it, but in fact, the title of yor post is great.

It's just too good to let slide by...
sigmund, carl and alfred | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 11:38 am | #

Always right, what in the world are you talking about? The French help and are helped by Iran because they get a lot of money and cheap oil out of the deal, as well as a larger market for their goods. It also gives them more influence in the area to use to their benefit, in re: persuading local politics to favour the French point of view.

Where does Mel Gibson come into it versus Ahmedinejad? In part we tend to ignore what he says because it's the same thing he always says, and has been saying for goodness knows how long. It would be like getting shocked by hearing Murtha declaim against the Marines; it happens so often, it's lost its shock value, and any reaction lends it more value than it deserves (actually, the same holds true for Gibson or A-jad, really, or any "Personality" the press chooses to quote). Personally, I've always been more for the Roosevelt school of Foreign Policy... Teddy Roosevelt, that is. Especially the big stick part.

Madness isn't equated with celebrity, but it does seem to be inseparable from Islamism, so that would be another reason why we don't generally react to him as we might, either.

I tend to view the militant Islamists in much the same way I would view a rabid dog; they're both a health hazard, plain and simple. And what do we do with a rabid dog? We put it down. For public safety. At this point, they have transgressed so far beyond the bounds of civilised society, they have no further claim to any of society's protections (and to anyone who asks me if I'm completely serious about this, yes I am, and I say this having given the matter a great deal of deep thought). They have become indeed "Hostis humanis generis" - the enemy of all mankind.
Katje | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 11:41 am | #

We knew the cheap oil deal (French & Iran) and maybe some nuke technology. But I am asking what additional gain the French get NOW by siding with the iranians? Making sure the Chinese don't get a bigger share of their oil, get to play on the world stage still, something else?
always right | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 11:53 am | #

Iran is a menace and a threat, but let's remember that heated rhetoric is part of the game of international relations, especially amongst the weak. Iran doesn't want to be nuked into oblivion by Israel or the U.S.
Kohut/Kernberg | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 12:02 pm | #

>> let's remember that heated rhetoric is part of the game of international relations, especially amongst the weak>>

Are you suggesting that the nut job doesn't _really_ mean all that? that "all Israel should be wiped out" is just a figure of speech?
suek | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 12:34 pm | #

Why shouldn't we take him at his word? Even in international discourse it isn't acceptable to casually talk about one's genocidal intent in polite company, is it? I would imagine you would take a patient who was suicidal and had a specific plan to carry it out at their word and do what is necessary, wouldn't you?
AnotherGuy | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 1:05 pm | #

But I am asking what additional gain the French get NOW by siding with the iranians?

Iran's promise on the Koran that the French will be the last Infidels to be exterminated.

Iran doesn't want to be nuked into oblivion by Israel or the U.S.

Why not? This is the same country that used mobs of running children to clear minefields and act as human shields against machineguns with the promise of "Keys to Paradise" and drinks of "Martyr's Punch". If they are nuked into oblivion, that just means they get all their 72-virgin harems in Paradise all at once.
Headless Unicorn Guy | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 1:06 pm | #

I think it's complicaed. I think we have to both 1) take Iran at its word and 2) refuse to accept the projective identification.

When I have a suicidal patient, I treat their suicidal ideation seriously. And yet I do not act immediately. I do not get alarmed/frightened/angry/overwhelmed. Why? BECAUSE THIS IS HOW THEY WANT ME TO FEEL. They are projecting their own sense of worthlessness, hate, and confusion into me. That way my day gets fucked up, and they get rid of their intolerable feelings of worthlessness. They made "powerful Doctor" feel powerLESS, while they now glory in their newfound power.

When I REFUSE these projections, when I show that I am not going to accept this attempt at manipulation, usually the patient settles down, readjusts their sense of self-other boundaries, and begins to bear and work through a little of their suffering. IF THEY DON'T DO THIS I know that something deeper is going on and it's time to be more interventionist.

IF WE TAKE IRAN SERIOUSLY they win. We get all scared and confused and angry and frightened and they sit back and glory at their power of just a few words to make a powerful country go mad. But if we treat their provocations with REALISM AND SOBRIETY I think they will recognize that we are not so weak as to be overwhelmed by the slightest provocation. In other words, they will recognize that WE ARE STRONG. WE CANNOT BE BULLIED.

If we really believe Iran is about to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, we should act. But they don't even have nukes yet. In the meantime, I believe we should treat Iran like the little boy who tells his mom "I HATE YOU MOMMY!" when he doesn't get what he wants. If you want to raise good kids, mark my words: "I don't care" is a much more loving response than "Oh no! How could you hate?" or "Then you are punished, go to your room!" I still think we are at a I DONT CARE stage with Iran. Anything more than that makes us look weak.
Kohut/Kernberg | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 1:12 pm | #

KK: "When I have a suicidal patient, I treat their suicidal ideation seriously. And yet I do not act immediately."

KK, are you implying Iran is suicidal? Wouldn't homicidal be a more apt description? Wouldn't a homicidal "patient" require immediate action?
darwin | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 1:18 pm | #

Darwin, if they attack Israel with a nuke, they are suicidal, because Israel and the US would attack back and they would be dead.

My basic theory of human nature is 1) people want to live and 2) they want to be rich. Not everyone would agree with this. Some would argue -- and it is a somewhat convincing argument -- that many Islamic societies would rather die than live. I am not there yet.
Kohut/Kernberg | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 1:27 pm | #

KK: "that many Islamic societies would rather die than live. I am not there yet."


Islam is a cult. It has all the major characteristics of a cult. The leadership is all that matters in a cult. The cult itself survives only to serve, provide for and enrich the leadership.

A free will does not exist in islam, therefore death may be preferable
darwin | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 1:47 pm | #

So we have to wait until they act on their suicidal or homicidal impulse? Until they try to kill Israel or themselves? i.e., until they actually possess a nuclear weapon? And how will you get the nuclear weapon away from them once they possess it? It's a little late at that point for the world to act.
AnotherGuy | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 1:55 pm | #

I am still under the belief that even with a nuke, Iran would have to be TOTALLY irrational to use it.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 2:01 pm | #

They may not be irrational, but they are totally paranoid. They may actually see using it as rational move on their part, designed to bring honor and longed-for reunion with Allah. Their rhetoric suggests this. Ahmadinejad's peculiar religious beliefs suggest that he sees himself as someone who will usher in the Shia "endtimes".
AnotherGuy | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 2:07 pm | #

Anonymous 2:01 - how oblivious to history can you be? Nothing personal intended, but such thinking only enables these fanatics. Look at the stupid move hizbullah just made that is dearly, dearly costing them. Tell me of the rationality of crossing the border into Israel and kidnapping soliders and not expecting some retalitation. How can you be oblivious to countless suicide/homicide bombings and so blindly think Iran and their terror groups would not use a nuke? Allah is on their side, or have you forgotten?You are the one that is irrational, or perhaps, being cowed into placating them out of abject fear. Which is it?
goesh | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 2:20 pm | #

I think it's safe to take the muslim vermin at their word that they want to kill everyone of us and take over the world. For the plague of islam to be expunged, the rats that carry it will have to be exterminated.
Improbulus Maximus | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 2:58 pm | #

"For the plague of islam to be expunged, the rats that carry it will have to be exterminated."

Agreed, but the disease of "political correctness" is preventing expungement of the plague, and if not eradicated itself, will help the plague spread.
darwin | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 3:24 pm | #

KK: When I have a suicidal patient, I treat their suicidal ideation seriously. And yet I do not act immediately. I do not get alarmed/frightened/angry/overwhelmed. Why? BECAUSE THIS IS HOW THEY WANT ME TO FEEL. (I assume this is an analogy of Islam)

Ah, to live in the halcyon days of pre 9/11.

Do your remember how your "felt" on 9/11.

I do. I do not want to ever "feel" that way again.
The Dude | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 3:49 pm | #

On the contrary, I think Hezbollah made a shrewd calculation that kidnapping a couple of IDF soldiers would be only a 'minor' thing resulting in a mini-crisis and ending in a POW swap.... they were calculating...and made a mistake.

Just as OBL calculated from the fastnesses of Taliban controlled Afghanistan - landlocked between Iran and Pakistan, that the big, bad USA could only lob cruise missiles and nothing more, certainly not invade with ground troops - and certainly not with relatively unsupported SOF forces. OOps. Looks like he was wrong there too.

Mad Jad might similarly miscalculate by putting more stock in the feckless UN and anti-American Americans out there willing to blame US for all the world's ills. If you believe too much of your own propaganda about how strong you are and how weak the other guy is.... don't be surprised if you make huge strategic mistakes on these false premises...
John | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 4:19 pm | #

Anon 2:01 pm -

They may not be rational by YOUR estimation, but by their standards such a thing might be seen as eminently rational.

How many times have you seen people do stuff that was completely stupid and self-destructive, but they were able to rationalize their actions to themselves?

It'll be the same with Iran. If they DO something we think irrational, remember that from their point of view WE aren't rational actors, and they're responding in a rational way.
JLawson | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 7:11 pm | #

Anonymous 2:01,
There's also the fact that you are trying to ascribe your perspectives and Judeo-Christian morality to a group of people of whom you have no possible idea how they really think of or perceive the world.
The muslims involved in this jihadi mindset are effectively functioning as members of a cult. Their religion, especially as interpreted to them by their controllers (read: mullahs), teaches them that Death is the preferred end state for their current situation (ie. a world currently dominated by non-muslims, which can be won "back" to Islam through the sacrifice of their lives). For many people, this provides a necessary meaning and context to lives that have been informed by little else than the misery of their material situation, a zero-sum mind-set, and a culture in which the jealousy of a "have-not" for the trappings of a "have" are designed to arouse not just a sense of grievance, but an obligation to acquire those specific trappings from the "have" in question.
Nothing in our society or culture prepares us for dealing with an ideology this alien. The founding of our country is based on the diametrically opposite proposition; Ours is the only revolution in history generated to enable men to keep their *own* property, rather than to gain the property and positions of others.
Until you can learn to really understand that the person who is embracing you in love and friendship, looking you lovingly in the eyes and pledging eternal solidarity is also conspiring with other people to bring about your destruction and maybe even death at the very same time(and I mean this very literally - you really have to jump into the full thought and feeling of this with both feet) you will never be able to even begin to comprehend how to look at the Arab world, let alone deal with it, especially on its own terms. And it's very important that everyone be able to start doing this, because it's the only way we'll be able to understand what is at risk in the Middle East. This is the only way we'll ever truly be able to deal with jihadism, and the threat represented by the concept of Global jihad. We've tried to deal with it our (diplomatic, rational, concessionary, conciliatory, helpful) way for over 30 some odd years now, and now we can see where it's gotten us.
Katje | Email | Homepage | 08.03.06 - 9:01 pm | #

LET'S COMPARE....

DELUSIONAL:
http://powerlineblog.com/archive...ives/ 014880.php
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2301

NOT DELUSIONAL:
http://powerlineblog.com/archive...ives/ 014883.php
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2297


...AND ALSO CONSIDER:

MORE "CIVILIAN" "VICTIMS" OF ISRAELI "AGGRESSION":
http://powerlineblog.com/archive...ives/ 014869.php

UN ENABLERS:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/ pf...l_hezbollah.php

**** http://michellemalkin.com/archiv...ives/ 005611.htm ****

AMERICAN PRO-TERROR 5TH COLUMN:
http://marklevinfan.com/?p=1307
ytba | Email | Homepage | 08.04.06 - 2:49 am | #

> Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi called for a UN-backed force to stabilize the Israeli-Lebanon border.

Muslims "must show preparedness to contribute forces for peacekeeping operations under the United Nations banner," Abdullah told the conference.

OK -- MAYBE -- if Arabs are willing to stand between Hezbollah and Israel -- so that they are the ones getting shot at FIRST -- I might entertain such a notion. More details, please.

> I am still under the belief that even with a nuke, Iran would have to be TOTALLY irrational to use it.

And what, praytell, leads you to doubt the depths of their irrationality?C'mon, they've done EVERYTHING possible to give The West complete and utter faith in it. Yet you **still** hold out a candle for some glimmer of rationality?

There must come a time when you stop hoping the growling dog, foaming at the mouth and approaching you with a mad gleam in his eye, is just that way because it's hot and he's thirsty.

Second, will you SWEAR wholeheartdly that you will UTTERLY grant free reign to those in charge to do ANYTHING they deem needed when you are proven wrong?


> But I am asking what additional gain the French get NOW by siding with the iranians?

EH?!?!?

THIS, below, is siding with the Iranians:

> "I totally condemn these words," Philippe Douste-Blazy said on France-Inter radio, saying they were "absolutely unacceptable on anyone's part, especially from a head of state."

For once, they are saying something vaugely intelligent.

> I think it's complicaed. I think we have to both 1) take Iran at its word and 2) refuse to accept the projective identification.

I believe in the Gordian solution -- nuke the place and let Allah sort out the radioactive glass.
Oh Bloody Hell | Email | Homepage | 08.04.06 - 10:52 pm | #

> AnotherGuy - 9:48 am

Precisely. We do know (I suspect) the current state, and, since it's not yet a crisis, they're trying to make it so no idiot short of Anonymoron can raise an issue with it. His ilk, of course, number in the millions, but I don't think (unfortunately) that we can convince them all to go visit Iran as human shields.

> and the proven ability to deliver them...

Because we no longer have the proven will to use them (I say "proven" because I'm fairly sure it's there, I just ak that we have disproven our will to use them).

We've only used them once in the past (three days apart, yes, but it was one single act/decision), and never since.

Anyone paying attention would have noticed our imbecilic dithering over the rightness and morality of that usage 60 years after the fact....

Ergo, there is reason for outsiders who STILL don't grasp the American character -- even vaugely -- like Islamics, to imagine that they have even the chance of the nitrocellulose dog chasing the asbestos cat through the hottest parts of hell.

They see our reactions and think "paper tiger", never realizing that we may have the patience of a Saint Bernard, but it's still not a good idea to taunt the bear.
Oh Bloody Hell | Email | Homepage | 08.04.06 - 11:02 pm | #

I do NOT endorse the website that produced this item I stumbled on today, but it is just SO amusing to comtemplate the similarity between the two groups portrayed, probably because there probably IS more than just a passing similarity.

http://www.conspiracyworld.com/ w..._terrorists.htm

The author may just be onto something there!
ytba | Email | Homepage | 08.06.06 - 11:11 pm | #