I just enjoy to the fullest your take on things, Pat.

Happy Holidays!

God Bless America! We really NEED that blessing more and more each day ....
Jerry Haberer | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 9:52 am | #

I like this idea. It substitutes minimal loss of life for the genocidal ambitions of the provocateurs of mass murder. Target the guilty first.
Jan | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 10:24 am | #

It's all part of multi-culturalism, we need to appreciate and accomodate their tremendous desire for martyrdom.
Gotta' give the people what they want.

The Islamonazis have broken the rules of war by expressly targeting civilians and we should likwise end the ban on targeting heads of state. Imagine what would happen if all these genocidal maniacs were to wake up tomorrow dead. Who would want to take their place? Really, we could have just tomahawked Saddam in the first place and not set a foot in Iraq.

Of course that would mean the "gentlemen's agreement" that has protected the American gov't all these years would fall to the wayside, so therefore I don't think the U.S. Govt would want to set themselves up for retaliation but one can imagine, no?
Wr_guy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 10:26 am | #

Dr. Pat,
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
I've always wondered why "diplomacy"
was given more credence than truth and honesty. You speak of bullies pushing
the envelope. We need people of courage
who will stand and point the finger and scream "BULLY!!" at fanatics like them.
Evil bullies only understand and respect
a no-nonsense response of brutal strength.
A nuke in time saves nine (or more)
later on. It might even bring that North Korean nutcase to the bargaining table.
These Islamic facists have no qualms about sacrificing untold numbers of their own people for the sake of [destroying] Israel. Let's
ablige them by destroying some of
them and their people for the sake of [preserving] Israel.
D.C. | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 10:31 am | #

"It is not necessary to wipe all of Iran--or Syria, or Lebanon for that matter-- off the map. "

That's where you lost it. You take any action, no matter how much bile it causes to build up in your belly, you give any pre-defined limit, you lose.

It's one of those sad whachamacallits. The only way to prevent the genocide of the arab/muslim is to convince them that it is most definatly a propable outcome.

you blink, you lose.

And just to make sure no one is confused by what I am saying. You cant bluff either. If you are not ready to kill them all, and you do not make it clear that all will be killed then all will eventually have to die.
Grimmy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 10:35 am | #

In many ways, as a culture, we're becoming "that guy". You know, the one that showed up at a gun fight armed only with a thesis on the psycho/socio ramifactions of applied violence.
Grimmy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 10:37 am | #

My take on what would deter the Islamo facists is not to target their people, whom they don't give a rip about anyway, but to target and threaten their precious "Holy" sites such as Mecca, with Nuclear weapons that would leave the ground with deadly contamination for 10,000 years. That's apparently the only thing they really care about. The point is that you have to find out what loss they find as inconceivable to bear and threaten that. Any islamo-facist scholars care to weigh in?
grillsgt47 | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 10:48 am | #

Grimmy - I should have said, "It may not be necessary...." ; and I think that if you target just the leaders initially, it might not be. But you are correct. Remember, I am only suggesting this strategy as a means of trying to prevent the worse possible scenario. That scenario might still happen, sadly. And we must mentally prepare ourselves for it.
Dr. Sanity | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 10:51 am | #

Dr. Sanity:

"It may not be necessary...." ; and I think that if you target just the leaders initially, it might not be"

Most very correct, ma'am.

"And we must mentally prepare ourselves for it."

I know I am ham-fisted and of narrow mind on this, but I have been trying to do my part to force that issue into open discussion.
Grimmy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:06 am | #

You are so naive you don't know they're only joshing.

Sorry... slipped into brainless liberal mode there for a moment............
ELC | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:17 am | #

The objective of war is breaking the enemies will to fight. Period.

You can do that in a myriad of ways, you can confuse him, you can bluff him, you can demoralize him. You don't necessarily have to kill him.
What you must do is instill a basic reality in his mind that you are going to do whatever it takes to win, and as they say...."resistance is futile".

Like Reagan's plan for the cold war.....we win...they loose.

Telling the enemy where you will draw the line on go no further is a sure fire recipie for failure.
Wr_guy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:33 am | #

While I fully agree, Dr. S, that targetting the heads of state of the Islamofascists would be the best practice, I must note the real evil-creators.

The Imams and Mullahs -- their "holy people". Who believe that Allah himself has givent the Arabs oil, so as to have the power to kill the Jews.

Even before assassinations, there should be tape recordings of the sermons given by the Jew haters, translated into English.

The oil must be taken away from regimes which are unwilling to respect Free Religion and Free Speech; both Iran & Saudi Arabia. With a lot more pressure on Kuwait -- why didn't the US force Kuwait to become a functioning Arab democracy after it was liberated in Gulf War I?

The Oil Trust Fund idea is the best bet -- so that the people get more cash, and the gov't/ leaders/ wannabe dictators get less.

The race is still on as to which side will be first: successful democracy & human rights OR crazy leader with a nuke; and Tel Aviv goes mushroom. I thought with Bush invading Iraq, democracy would win. Now I fear the mushroom cloud wins.

Merry Christmas!
Tom Grey | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:34 am | #

"What like a bullet can undeceive!"
—Herman Melville
White Ringer | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:35 am | #

We need to get on with the weapons program known as Prompt Global Strike. It has been proposed to retrofit Trident sub-launched missiles with conventional warheads and GPS terminal guidance--so they could be used as deep penetrators to destroy underground nuclear facilities, or to kill terrorist leaders without the delays caused by the long flight times of cruise missiles.

Congress has been stalling on this program, largely because of concerns about delinking the concepts "ballistic missile" and "nuclear weapon." Actually, I think the failure to move on Prompt Global Strike is making a nuclear outcome more, rather than less, likely.
david foster | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:35 am | #

And then, no more than a generation later, there's another crop of mullahs spouting the same crap, stiring up the same trouble and mobilizing the same forces.
Grimmy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:46 am | #

In other words, what could be described as a "penny wise, pound foolish" approach.

Minimal muss and fuss today and ensured conflict later, until one side is totally, irrevocably, undeniably and completely defeated and that philosophy or belief or concept that convenced them to be an enemy is no longer recognized by the losing side as real and gives no more inspiration to continued conflict.
Grimmy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:49 am | #

One side or the other will have to be made to submit in such a way that no one can delude themselves into believing that the submission did not happen.

It is either us, or it is them.

As a reference, I offer the end of WW1. The German army was allowed to quit the field in France, away from the eyes of the German people and go home, more or less, in tact. The very next day the myth started, "if we'd only held out awhile longer, we would have won".

It was not the treaty that motivated the German militaria to further and renewed aggression one generation later, it was the belief that they'd been cheated out of victory a generation earlier by people that just didnt try hard enough, for long enough.
Grimmy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 11:53 am | #

I notice that in their haste to destroy Israel their true feelings about the "ultimate victims", the Palestinians, show as well - no need to worry about them, is there? they also will be wiped off the map; "oh too bad, just martyrs for the Caliphate".

As far as the "Gentleman's Agreement" about not targeting heads of state, the Islamists have already killed at least two leaders (okay, candidates for leadership) in Europe without any qualms - as they aren't gentlemen by any stretch of imagination, that issue is a moot point. Targeting their leaders would at least give us some breathing room, and might just get the kind of response we want from the surviving leaders - Libya has been awfully quiet since we guided a bomb through a bedroom window, haven't they?
walker colt | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 12:58 pm | #

grillsgt47 wrote: The point is that you have to find out what loss they find as inconceivable to bear and threaten that.

Don't threaten, obliterate. Then tell them in no uncertain terms that the process will continue if they don't submit to total and unconditional surrender. Then, with the first sign if "insurgency", wipe out the rest of them without giving it a second thought.

We have an absolute right to respond to aggression and threats of aggression with sufficient (even excessive if necessary) force to end it forever. Our survival requires that we do unto others what they would do to us but we must do it first.

If eventually, why not now? "Boo hooooo. They won't like us." So what? Send them all to hell. Rather than worrying about making them angry, we should make sure they shit blood at the thought they might make us angry.
A. Rational Human | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 12:58 pm | #

We need to get creative in this war and use a little American ingenuity.

We could start with 10 Iranian holy sites destroyed overnight using weaponry that mysteriously traces back to Russia or China.

Allow evidence to surface in Iran that points to spying by some top level mullahs and govt officials.

Drop radioactive material around Iranian nuclear sites to make it appear they have massive problems with containment of radioactivity from the public.

The list is endless of the ways we can fight this enemy to our advantage instead of his.
SteveH | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 1:14 pm | #

"Rather than worrying about making them angry, we should make sure they shit blood at the thought they might make us angry."

Well said....I often think that the AQ leadership in a cave in Afghanistan must have been fully expecting to die by sunrise on 9/11 only to be fully surprised that in the morning they are actually alive and well.

When McArthur ran Japan post war, no Japanese sucide bomber even THOUGHT of resisting him.
Wr_guy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 1:18 pm | #

Hey hey hey...Sounds like you guys are advocating we need to be more like COWBOYS.

Dont you know that this can only be resolved by a deeply contemplative European style diplomat that has elbow patches on his tweed jacket while crossing his legs like a woman and actually empathises with the enemies pain???

Yea i'll take the cowboy too.
SteveH | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 1:36 pm | #

I hate to go the warmonger route - but I'll second what ARH said. Realistically, are we so worried about what the rest of the world might think that we'll cut our own throats to avoid offending the delicate sensibilities of folks who'd love to see a neutered America?

J.
JLawson | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 2:03 pm | #

It's well established that you cannot deter a man who's willing to pay any price to hurt you. Unfortunately, that puts Israel -- and the U.S. -- in a position no decent society would want to occupy: the need to commit an unprecedented mass slaughter of mostly innocent Iranians to avert an unprecedented mass slaughter of wholly innocent Israelis.

If God ever weeps, He's surely doing so over this.
Francis W. Porretto | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 3:12 pm | #

Francis W. Porretto wrote: ...that puts Israel -- and the U.S. -- in a position no decent society would want to occupy: the need to commit an unprecedented mass slaughter of mostly innocent Iranians ....

You are projecting a false premise. There is no such thing as an innocent Muslim. Actions issue from ideas.
A. Rational Human | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 3:40 pm | #

DC:
"We need people of courage
who will stand and point the finger and scream "BULLY!!" at fanatics like them. Evil bullies only understand and respect a no-nonsense response of brutal strength."

If only we could convince all Americans and those nations that share our convictions re liberty, free trade, market capitalism, and regard for individuals and their rights, a resolution to confounding despots would assure a more benign world. We see, however, what happened to courageous men like Bolton and Santorum. Too many in our nation fear the Cassandras who warn of real danger.
onlineanalyst | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 4:19 pm | #

Everyone should read the fascinating article on "radical losers" (http://www.signandsight.com/features/493.html) by Hans Magnus Enzensberger. He makes the interesting points taht these guys dont just want to kill everyone; they also must be killed themslves. I think this clarifies what exactly AJ and his ilk really want: they want to die. And the reason is they cant face the fact that they're losers.
howard_coward | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 4:28 pm | #

I'm not so sure that the idea of "few million Muslims in Iran is a small price to pay to 'wipe Israel off the map' and finish the job that Hitler started" is the correct.

First off, if Iran ever succeeds in building nuclear bombs, they will be primitive & low yield compared to what Israel has. The same goes for Iranian delivery system.

Therefore, any nuclear exchange between Israel & Iran will not in any way be equal, and it is far more likely that Iran will be annihilated than israel.

Furthermore, it is quite possible that the U.S. would add to the destruction of Iran in the event the Persains attacked Israel -- and might even toast a few other Muslim countries for good measure.
Kenny | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 6:40 pm | #

Kenny:

It doesnt matter. Take a look, again, at the geography. Look at the population density and limited landmass of Israel. One nuke, even of "limited" size will destroy that small a nation. There'd be no recovering from the high percentage of total population that one bomb would kill in that small a nation with such tightly clustered pop densities.

Allow me, please, to put this on a personal level for cause-effect discussion perposes.

You approach me with what I percieve to be a weapon with a stated and proven desire to kill me, you are dead. I dont care if it was a home made zip gun or an automatic rifle. To behave or believe otherwise is to render yourself the casualty.

IF I know that you are dead set on my destruction and I just keep doing what would simply delay you or hinder you or temporarily set you back, then eventually you will catch me unawares or unprepared and I will have deserved the destruction that follows.
Grimmy | Email | Homepage | 12.22.06 - 10:56 pm | #

See why you have to call yourself "dr sanity", as anyone reading this stuff would assume your sanity was deeply damaged. Try to think of global conflict as something a little more complex than a playground.
neoneoconned | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 8:22 am | #

Neoneoconned needs to get away from weasel words like "complex" and demonstrate a well reasoned rebuttal. The use of words like "complex, "nuance," et al is how most who lack the ability to debate and present ideas and/or solutions try to hide that inability.
More of your well thoughtout ideas are in order if you are capable and less hiding behind weasel words.
You are now welcome to exhibit your liberal credentials by calling names or presenting links to the MSM, et al. That will definitely show intellectual prowess.
Dennis | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 8:44 am | #

How can I when there are children like you running around behaving in an infantile manner, neoneoconned? If you have something substantive to say instead of the usual idiotic ad hominem attacks, you might not be banned from this site. But, children usually don't have anything much of substance to say--they are too busy playing.
Dr. Sanity | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 8:47 am | #

Pelosi will send the sheep to slaughter in order to feed her hungry bushhate-worshipping animals before Iran gets the chance to push the button.

Voting The Stupid Party out of power is one thing but to put The Evil Party back into power is inexcusable.
syn | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 8:51 am | #

On a happier note---German anti-idiotarianism!

http://www.signandsight.com/feat...tures/ 1020.html
RS | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 9:40 am | #

Carefully targeted assassinations are likely to be veryeffective against these maniacs, despite their claimed willingness to die for allah.
The billions being spent in Iraq and Afghanistan would be better employed by bribing Arabs and Afghans and whoever else is interested to murder and destabilise Arab countries.
Our diplomats have placed "stability" above all else in these regions.
What we need is more instability.
KG | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 3:09 pm | #

"to murder leaders" that should have been.
KG | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 3:10 pm | #

"Is there anyone naive enough to think that these homicidal fanatics would hesitate for one second to use a nuclear weapon against Israel--even if it meant millions Iranians would be also destroyed in a counterattack?"

Ahhh, you know there are plenty of people who will tell you they wouldn't actually use them, Dr! They range from the "realists" who believe that MAD would disuade them, to the Carterites who will tell you that "such statements are only for domestic consumption" ie, rallying the base.

We need to work covertly to overthrow this regime. Hopefully we are, but somehow I fear our efforts are halfhearted. For example, we know that Iran is supplying the Iraqi insurgency, and we know where the munitions are coming from withing Iran. We ought to take out those supply depots.

KG has it right with regared to many of our diplomats who take a "stability uber alles" approach to the region.
Tom the Redhunter | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 5:08 pm | #

"Let their targeted deaths; their glorious martyrdom, be an artistic memento mori that reminds all those who preach and practice religious genocide and believe only in death, that we in the West sympathize with their desire for martydom and will gladly assist them in reuniting with the god they profess to serve.

THE SOONER, THE BETTER!
ytba | Email | Homepage | 12.23.06 - 9:15 pm | #

"Carefully targeted assassinations are likely to be veryeffective against these maniacs, despite their claimed willingness to die for allah." -- KG | 12.23.06 - 3:09 pm |

As I posted once, about 3 years ago, a "Eulogy For A Corpse" I invoke the Israili Air Force's highly criticized, but very effective means of walking-corpse disposal.

B"H

"Since we must find the good in all things, and no one else seems to have the stomach for it [since first writing this, some have], I am forced to endeavor to descend to the task as best I can.

Regarding these creatures, two questions come to mind:

What good can be truthfully said about one Arab "Militant" that couldn't equally be said about any other?

...and...

How can one understand the true meaning and purpose of the brief existence of what appeared to be a man, but which in fact chose instead to become a "living" corps that wandered about futilely haunting the savage world it helped to make; a world of hate, lies, theft and murder; until most fortuitously and at long last chancing upon and thankfully becoming united with its exceedingly belated demise?

In answer to the first, nothing comes to mind, and because they all share precisely this same paiseworthy characteristic, one need mention it but once, and thankfully be ever done with it.

The second requires a little thought, but the return is worth the effort. With gratitude to G_d, I am thankful not for the destruction of one of His creature's, but for the relief He has sent us, that another Islamofascist thug has joined the all too slowly growing number of it's fellows in the fulfillment of their wicked heart's most fervent desire, in a way that takes none of it's intended victims with it.

The true manifest beauty of it's brief existence is in the kowledge that, at the moment of its departure, the deadly darkness it had diligently crafted and cast like a long cold shadow upon fellow and victim alike, departs forever along with it, and the world becomes yet a better place.


In closing, I would just like to leave you with one final tiny flash of insight, which hopefully won't leave more than the faintest trace of a powder burn on your mind.

By observing the happy result of combining their ghoulishly morbid desire for martyrdom and their addiction to cheap violent histrionics, with the IAF's sure and obliging technology; we can derive an appropriate rewording of Andy Warhol's famous dictum,...

"In the future, every terrorist will have his own private 15 milliseconds of flame."

Good Night, And Have A Better Tomorrow."
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 12.24.06 - 1:50 pm | #

"On a happier note---German anti-idiotarianism!

http://www.signandsight.com/feat...m/feat...tures/ 1020.html " --
RS | 12.23.06 - 9:40 am |

Thanks for that link, RS. I'm especially intrigued by the honesty of the evil ones, who are quoted in this segment,...

"Unfortunately it does not help the matter when the major newspapers actually print the scandalous Hamas Charta: "Israel will rise up until Islam destroys it, like it destroyed its predecessors... Thanks to the spread of Muslims throughout the world, who are pursuing the Hamas goal, the movement has become universal. Anyone who doubts its value, or refuses to support it, or is blind enough to deny its role, is tempting fate. The Prophet, blessings and peace be upon him, said: Judgement Day will not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews (and kill the Jews) and the Jew hides behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say: Oh Muslim! There's a Jew behind me, come and kill him! ... Peace initiatives go against the grain of everything Hamas stands for."

From everything I've read for the past 30 years, I think that about sums it up.

And it isn't just Jews, because they also say,...

"First the Saturday People, then the Sunday People."

LET THE BOMBING BEGIN!
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 12.24.06 - 2:15 pm | #

HAVING POSTING PROBLEMS. DON'T KNOW WHY.

that link, as RS gave it above, was...
http://www.signandsight.com/feat...tures/ 1020.html
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 12.24.06 - 2:17 pm | #

After seven or eight years of war with Iraq, Iran agreed to an armistice, which saw both sides agreeing to respect (for armistice purposes) the pre-war international border. Khomeni himself signed off on it, making some remark about having to drink from a cup of poison.

But drink he did, which suggests that at least some of Iran's reigious lunatics can choke on Iranian blood. Knomeni was an ocagenarian when he choked; whether a relatively young lunatic like Ahmadinejad would also choke remains to be seen, but at least there is a small reason to believe that not everyone in Iran is prepared to embrace nuclear martyrdom.

Personally, I would try something like the idea outlined here -- but I think it must be understood that in order for it to work, it will have to involve a pre-emptive nuclear strike. The optimistic view of Iran is that it is a lot like the movie producer in the Godfather, who is moved only after the head of his favorite race horse turns up in his bed; the message was that if he wanted to continue to fight he had to be prepared to lose everything. A nuclear strike on Iran's nuclear facilities -- during work hours when the scientific staff is present -- toether with a naval blockade, might convince Iranian "moderates" (those who still value their indiviedual and collective survival) that their country could lose everything (no guarantees, of course, but worth a try).

Before a nuke was dropped on Japan, some scientists got cold feed and suggested a demonstration nuking first. Think of this as a demonstration nuking.

There is one other possible approach, which would be less apocalyptic, but would probably elicit more howls from the left. Identify the Islamic worlds most violent mullahs and bomb them in their mosques with their congregations -- and keep doing it until they are all dead. If "it only serves to recruit more martyrs," build more bombers. Keep it up until, like Japan, the Islamic world recognizes that their desire to die is matched by our willingness to kill them -- and exceeded by our desire to live.

Again, there is not guarantee this would work, but it is worth a try -- because the alternative is apt to be the destruction of Israel, the nuclear savaging of the United States and much of Europe, and the extermination of Islam.
Paul Danish | Email | Homepage | 12.24.06 - 9:07 pm | #

Paul Danish:

There is one other possible approach, which would be less apocalyptic, but would probably elicit more howls from the left. Identify the Islamic worlds most violent mullahs and bomb them in their mosques with their congregations -- and keep doing it until they are all dead.

Yes, exactly. Target the fanatic imams, in every country in the world. Anyone who shouts "Death to America" needs to be killed immediately. Period.
rickl | Email | Homepage | 12.25.06 - 2:07 pm | #

THIS JUST IN (Updated 12/23/2006 3:13 PM ET)

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/wor...er_x.htm? csp=34
ytba | Email | Homepage | 12.25.06 - 2:57 pm | #

(got that via ATLAS SHRUGS, btw)
ytba | Email | Homepage | 12.25.06 - 3:00 pm | #

Still haven't gotten over your 9/11 menopause yet?.....The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Adolf Oliver Nipple | Email | Homepage | 12.25.06 - 11:46 pm | #

oh hum still insane i see
neoneoconned | Email | Homepage | 12.29.06 - 9:49 am | #

The use of the word "martyrdom" in the context of Islamospeak never ceases to amaze me. In a Christian context, a martyr gives of his own life for others, and/or rather than to submit to denying his faith. The Christian Martyr does not take innocent people with him to his death.

The Islamic world has so derangedly bastardized the term "martyr" as a means of making the murder of innocents a noble activity.

"Religion of Peace," my ass.
Psycmeistr | Email | Homepage | 01.23.07 - 4:06 pm | #

test
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 07.18.07 - 11:39 am | #