I doubt at this point that you are even capable of anything other than reflexive -- never rational -- thought.
greg | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 7:48 am | #

I've been getting a certain amount of comment from The Inescapable Logic of Global Warming.

Do you think the reason those on the left are so anxious to see their version of Climate Change accepted is just to make people more dependent on government, or is there something else? Are they actually convinced that it's all just empiricism, with no politics involved?

The whole thing reminds me of the real phenomenon of Muslim terrorists claiming that the West is picking on Allah, or something. I can't quite verbalize it, which probably means I'll write a meandering, 5000-word article which fails to do so.
Socrates | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 7:57 am | #

The solutions proposed by the global warming fanatics all have one thing in common ... sucking huge amounts of money from people. Carbon tax, fuel tax, oil tax and so on. The big government elites see a virtual unending gold mine and all they have to do is continue to scare people.

They know damn well no one will drastically change driving habits or fuel usage. Businesses will simply pass higher costs onto comsumers, which in turn will do nothing but hurt lower and middle income workers making them cry out for even more government aid.

This is one of the biggest ripoffs in history, and the left is using their old weapon of fear as the hammer.
darwin | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 8:37 am | #

Its all summed up in the recent comment by Ms Clinton: (approximately) "I want to take their [big oil] profits and spend it on ....". When he was president, her consort said, (approximately) "You think taxes are too high, I agree but I don't think you will spend it on what you should..."

This is the language of THUGS pure and simple. The MSM, the left, and the bulk of the Democratic party treat them as gods on earth who's words are pure gold. Yes, but its gold taken at point of gun from the pockets of the people who EARNED it and created the values behind it in the first place.

Its time we treat one and all of them for what they are: thugs. They do not mean well no matter what their words. They don't deserve a shadow of doubt or a smidgen of respect and have earned our undying revulsion.
A. Rational Human | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 9:57 am | #

Forget Chicken Little, some of the global warming rhetoric reminds me of the Wolf that encourages all the farm animals to hide in his lair, safe from the bad falling sky...
Patrick Chester | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 10:53 am | #

IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

http://www.coxandforkum.com/arch...ulWeather- X.gif
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 11:08 am | #

"I doubt at this point that you are even capable of anything other than reflexive -- never rational -- thought", greg smugly proclaimed as he preened before his bathroom mirror.

greg, please, try thinking about the issues yourself instead of going right into automatic groupspeak mode. It's really your only hope in the matter of facing your own fears. Check it out.
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 11:17 am | #

Just as the New Ice Age scare melted away in the 70's, the Global Warming Hubbub will die out as the "science" is revealed to be mostly politics.

Allow me to predict the next apocalypse: Catastrophic Climate Equilibrium. Like all impending disasters conjured up by the left's pseudo-scientists, this one will require planned economic stagnation and massive curtailment of human liberties.

It's all so predictable.
GnuCarSmell | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 12:03 pm | #

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it all reminds me of the activist-"scientists" claiming pollution and those nasty Maquilas on the border were causing the rash of neural tube defects on the Texas-Mexico border. Ten years and a bunch of lawsuits later, it was figured out that the tortilleria was closer to the culprit than the factory--- a bloom of corn mold was producing fumonisin, which causes neural tube defects in pregnant humans.

Heck, think back to the "science" behind the Dow Corning lawsuits over autoimmune disorders and silicone breast implants.

The point is, when advocacy and politics get involved, it is really easy to make the science fit the narrative of the guy paying for the study.
RS | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 12:39 pm | #

WHAT THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW (2nd try, because of information overload . . .
"Your comment contains too many links and will not be added")

"If the IPCC figures are correct, the upper end of the range of what might actually happen is a rise of less than a meter over a century--considerably less than the distance between high tide and low."
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.c...g- headline.html
(via: antigreen.blogspot.com)

TAKE THE TEST:
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb...Test/ start.html

SANITY BREAK:
http://epw.senate.gov/public/ ind...=Minority.Blogs

SKEPTIC'S GUIDE:
http://epw.senate.gov/public/ind...n_id=& Issue_id=

LINKS:
http://maize-energy.blogspot.com...te-to- ipcc.html

.............===================================== ==============.............
IN OTHER ANTI-TERROR NEWS:
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 12:43 pm | #

In all of these instances, the proposed solutions were always the same: BIG--really really big--GOVERNMENT. Government would rescue us!

Because Mother Gaia is Angry with Us, and Dear Leader Hillary IS Mother Gaia come in the flesh...

Global Warming Activists (TM) have been spoofed at least twice on South Park to date:

1) The first was the B-plot of the episode "Terrence & Philip: Behind the Blow", where at the "Earth Day Brainwashing Festival", the Activists (TM) responded to any criticism with Jedi Mind Trick Gestures and the following mantra in a Scientology Tone 40 Voice: "Global Warming Is Real. The Planet Is Dying. And The Republicans Are Responsible. It's All The Republicans' Fault. The Republicans Are To Blame. It's All The Republicans' Fault. The Republicans Are To Blame. It's All The Republicans' Fault. The Republicans Are To Blame..." Repeated with gestures and tone until everybody else was parroting along in a "They're not the droids we're looking for..." voice.

2) The entire episode "Two Days Before The Day After Tomorrow", a parody of the Global Warming Important Message Movie The Day After Tomorrow.
Headless Unicorn Guy | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 12:45 pm | #

From coxandforkum, "Politics floods science-mankind doomed"-let speaking in tongues be the universal language!
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 12:49 pm | #

1.What is the worst that could happen regardless of cause (nature/nurture)?

2.What industries could be generated from solutions/adaptations?
americafirst | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 12:50 pm | #

greg: Save your drivel for the leftist blogs. Can't stand opinions that conflict with yours?
popdonnelly | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 12:59 pm | #

http://www.geocraft.com/ WVFossil...house_data.html
The above is a short, clear technical description of how water vapor affects global warming. Here'a short excerpt...


Water vapor, the most significant greenhouse gas, comes from natural sources and is responsible for roughly 95% of the greenhouse effect (4). Among climatologists this is common knowledge but among special interests, certain governmental groups, and news reporters this fact is under-emphasized or just ignored altogether.

Conceding that it might be "a little misleading" to leave water vapor out, they nonetheless defend the practice by stating that it is "customary" to do so!

Jerilyn
jb | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 1:43 pm | #

If those activists/news reporter/lefty tools were to actually admit the 95% of greenhouse gasses came from farting bushes, where would all the fun be?

But, it's all good, tis customary to ignore that little fact - as jb pointed out.

Party on Lefties!! Ignorance is bliss!
White Ringer | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 2:10 pm | #

"Dear Leader Hillary IS Mother Gaia come in the flesh..." -- Headless Unicorn Guy | 02.07.07 - 12:45 pm |

And Al Gore is the high-priest wannabe of the neo-gaianian religion.
http://www.usasurvival.org/ culto...cultofgaia.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/ foru...9a937e02050.htm

. . . a religion based on falsehoods lagore, uh, galore.
http://www.junkscience.com/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/ 2...arris061206.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focu...s/1649199/ posts

Fun Time:
Did Al Gore say it, or the Unabomber?
. . . can you tell the difference?

Oh yeah, and, isn't that "der leader?"
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 2:22 pm | #

Also, the vaunted climate modelers claim to not know the difference between model simulations and scientific experiments, arguing completely self-servingly that the difference is semantic: "constructed word perceptions determine reality, and mine are also equal to, nay better, than yours are - why?, because I say so. So there's no need to even 'experiment' beyond my simulations."

It's circular, but what's a mere plebian to do?

At climateaudit one esteemed modeler argued also that we can't use the whole Earth as an experiment. Well, no one except astronomers ever does use the whole Earth as an experiment. That's one reason why it's designed as and called an "experiment" - to find out what really happens or might happen if we applied the conditions to a larger sphere.

Yet the Kyoto Protocols then want to perform a [patently useless] experiment on the whole of Mankind, while refusing to even simulate the possible and likely adverse side-effects of the experiment.

So that's "scientific", eh? 'Sounds more Communistic to this particular neocon.
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 2:53 pm | #

THE GORE EFFECT

. . . where . . .


Fiery speaker Al Gore gives his audiances a chill.

What real scientists realy say . . .
http://climatesci.colorado.edu/2...nkrik-tennekes/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/ 2...rming020507.htm
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 3:28 pm | #

J. Peden wrote: So that's "scientific", eh? 'Sounds more Communistic to this particular neocon.

Its more like the good old one pea under one of three walnut shells con game. Except here there is no pea, no three shells, and no table to work the scam on. Also, there is no elephant, no stack of turtles, no bowl of sand, and no endless ocean. Its just scam all the way down.
A. Rational Human | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 3:28 pm | #

I might start listening to the predictions a little more once the 5- and 10-day forecasts are a little more accurate. Heck, I'd be happy if they were a little more accurate with today's forecast. When the low temperature is predicted to be 11, and the current temperature is 2, I'm thinking the model needs to be tweaked a little.

And I'm betting that the Vikings in Greenland might have wanted a bit of global warming during the Little Ice Age that killed them.
Bryan | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 3:32 pm | #

AlGore is going at it the wrong way. He should train in ice-water swimming pools to completely acclimatise himself to the cold, then strut about in NYC's midtown on a 20 degree F day wearing shorts, T-shirt, sandals, and sweat, then convince the heathen that Earth is really, really in Danger!
Tom TB | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 4:05 pm | #

Nothin. Alright, Siggy’s doing it butt naked is his way of unconsciously telling us that global warming is for real. Invest in naturism! (Just not in Florida.)
americafirst | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 4:16 pm | #

And Al Gore is the high-priest wannabe of the neo-Gaianian religion.

He made it onto South Park, too. As nemesis of Mother Gaia's antithesis -- MAN-BEAR-PIG!
Headless Unicorn Guy | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 7:56 pm | #

Forget Chicken Little, some of the global warming rhetoric reminds me of the Wolf that encourages all the farm animals to hide in his lair, safe from the bad falling sky...

Actually, Global Warming types (and those of similar ilk) remind me of Young Earth Creationists.
Headless Unicorn Guy | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 7:58 pm | #

Bejus, ytba, that tennekes link and site is stunning.

I haven't looked at the others, yet.
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 8:27 pm | #

J. Peden

re tenekkes

It's like finding a gem, and with all the garbage on the net it's getting harder and harder.


Headless Unicorn Guy

I haven't seen S. Park in years, but I understand they are one of the only ones willing to take on Mohammed, which i have to admire.
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 9:00 pm | #

Agreed on the terrificness of the Tennekes' site.

The problem is that those of us who are skeptics about the alarmism of the global warming/climate change crowd do our research beyond what is available via the mainstream media. The links provided by commenters at this site are a case in point that we are not apt to swallow whole the popular media's message.

Check out this quick article on a survery demonstrating how the general public is being lulled into accepting global warming as anthopogenically caused: http://www.openmarket.org/2007/0...to-energy-diet/

Information that contradicts or raises questions about the received wisdom of the global-warming spiel has to get out to the general public in a convincing (and dare I say, entertaining?)way.
onlineanalyst | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 9:42 pm | #

Onlineanalyst

Yes, and as they say in that link "Thank goodness for the 'common man'!"
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 10:04 pm | #

""The point is, when advocacy and politics get involved, it is really easy to make the science fit the narrative of the guy paying for the study.
RS""

Amen to that. I cant think of another spokesman that would give this whole movement away as pure political BS more than ALGORE does. Its like trotting out Pee Wee Herman as medical spokesman for the health benefits of group masturbation. (At least Pee Wee has more credibility).

I dont know whats more bizzare. Leftist believing this crap or Leftist knowing its crap and thinking normal people will buy it.

The consensus is in. The debate is over. Todays Leftist arent merely delusional. Theyre suffering from some sort of adult onset retardation.
SteveH | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 10:07 pm | #

"Quote of the Week: H.L. Mencken: The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it."
http://www.sepp.org/
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 10:40 pm | #

> I doubt at this point that you are even capable of anything other than reflexive -- never rational -- thought.

The thoughtful, well-reasoned Lefty argument... aka name-calling. Wow. I never expected THAT from someone on The Left. Did any of you? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Oh Bloody Hell | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 10:47 pm | #

YTBA, yeaaaa i just had to show a woman the door who kept commenting how she really liked cooking for me.
SteveH | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 10:48 pm | #

YTBA, three more recommendations for you to add to your list:

Still Waiting for Greenhouse
-- The original author has passed away, but it is still updated by another. The watermark pictured is one of the best long-term measurements, at 163 years, of mean sea level that currently exists. You'll note that it is ABOVE the current mean sea level. Consider the implications of that. Yes, there are other possible explanations, but the same can be said for many of the measurements so casually bandied about by the "other side".

Aliens Cause Global Warming
a Cal Tech lecture by Michael Crichton
-- I'd point out here that, if you look at his history, Crichton has made his wealth with Cautionary Tales about the dangers of technological hubris. He has openly stated that he started to research global warming with the intent of writing a book about "good" eco-terrorists and found it to be so shoddily justified that he made them the bad guys, leading us to...

State of Fear
by Michael Crichton
-- Fiction, yes, but thoroughly backed up by a long technical section to justify why his characters make the claims that they do, with copius footnotes if you want to check his facts and claims out for yourself.
Oh Bloody Hell | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 11:08 pm | #

OBH - It does seem to be the standard comeback when faced with disagreement. No attempt will be made to engage as far as facts go - you're obviously not rational because you disagree.

As far as global warming goes, I've noticed that other planets seem to be showing the effects of warming also - Mars and Pluto, to be exact.

A quick google search for Pluto shows such notable right-wing enviro-deniers as CNN, ABC News, MIT News office and Space.com indicate it's having issues with global warming.

http://tinyurl.com/2nkcc3

Caused by the solar constant? Maybe, maybe not - but the average surface temprature of the nitrogen ice on Pluto has increased slightly less than 2 degrees Celsius over the past 13 years. Yet the solar constant supposedly hasn't changed...

But you take a look at http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/SOL...ANCE/ irrad.html, and you can see it dipped in the '80s, peaked kind of in the '90-'92 time frame, dipped slightly in the '90s, and peaked around 2002... (Which, coincidentally, is the year the first couple of Pluto warming stories came out...) and now it looks like it's going back down... but the data stops at 2004... and there were a couple of TALL spikes in 2002-2003. Also, it looked like the previous maximum ran from about '89 through mid '92, and the 'current' max started in '98 and was still going in 2003 - two years longer than the previous.

ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/STP/SOL...osite_nnaa3.jpg has the graph.

Frankly, this makes me doubt that mankind's the cause of all global warming, or even a significant contributor. Our efforts are a drop in a swimming pool compared to the sun...

BTW, I spotted a site called 'RealClimate.org' which takes as the premise that mankind IS the cause - and what's really wierd is in one of the threads a supposed scientist stated the solar insolation went DOWN between '98 and 2003. Unless I've got my monitor upside down, judging by that jpg I linked above that's downright false.

J.
JLawson | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 11:37 pm | #

Oh Bloody Hell

Thanks. Those are three of my favorite, and if I didn't have them I would certainly want them. Hopefully others will benefit from them. Nice summaries!
===========================

WAXING PHILOSOPHICAL

Steve H.

Ummm, she was trying to "save" you? ...or at least save you the trouble of cooking?

Was her cooking any good?

Sometimes one has to make a trade off. I mean, in any relationship the man almost always looses anyway, so if your gains outweigh your losses . . . or at least balance. Ok, so if you at least get SOMETHING! ...or think you do . . . .

But then, if you don't like each other A LOT, then, yeah, the door's good.

Which makes me wonder, why on earth are is the Left STILL HERE?!!
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 11:43 pm | #

"As far as global warming goes, I've noticed that other planets seem to be showing the effects of warming also - Mars and Pluto, to be exact." -- JLawson

I once used that fact on a GW fanatic. I almost fell off my chair when his reply was to the effect that we didn't have enough data and needed more studies. But EARTH, oh no, it's settled! Sheesh!
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.07.07 - 11:51 pm | #

BTW -- read the comments on the Tim Blair piece. Some good wit there.

http://timblair.net/ee/index.php...ts/weather_god/
Oh Bloody Hell | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 12:31 am | #

Nice to connect up with you again OBH. Drop by.

I believe we have slight warming. I believe that more of it is already "in the pipeline" because climate change is slow. I believe we may have something to do with it.

And I don't think it's a big deal. I think it's an attempt by people who are overwhelmed by the reality of foreign affairs to find something smaller they think they can solve. They need to convince you that the enemy they intend to slay is a real dragon.
Assistant Village Idiot | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 1:17 am | #

Thanks for all the links, everyone.

One question I am very unclear about is: why is the Earth's interior temp./heat production considered a constant?

I haven't heard anyone even mention the matter except for Gary Novak
http://nov55.com/gbwm.html

Do deep drilling results show changes in temp., such as that of oil?

I wonder if at least the sub-crustal temps. are phasic, as manifested by volcanic activity, for example. If so, then this should affect ocean, land mass, and atmospheric temps..
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 1:25 am | #

The whole deal is we call it "climate". The very word denotes non stagnancy,and variation.

Look for these same leftist to attack privatising social security by insisting their scientific computer models can accurately predict the years of future downslides in the stock market.
SteveH | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 7:11 am | #

". . . why is the Earth's interior temp./heat production considered a constant?" -- J.Peden

Good Question. It's something that seems intuitively obvious, but I couldn't say exactly why it's true. I'm betting it is, at least globally, but I am not certain. Now I have another quest to pursue. Hi Ho, Beauregard, and away!
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 11:08 am | #

J. Peden

Re: Gary Novak link.

I checked that link you gave for his material, and saw something about relativity being wrong. RED FLAG! I read it and found it to be, (uh, I'll be kind) wrong. The same for a number of his other "scientific" opinions, so even if he were accidentally right about the climate, I couldn't use him because of his absence of credibility on the other items.
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 11:57 am | #

ytba, yeah I know Novak shoots a bit from the hip, shall we say. Thanks. But that's the only link relating to my question I found easily via Google. I haven't looked very hard, but also can't see why the question is not mentioned in other common treatments of GW.
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 1:14 pm | #

ytba, also regarding Novak's dissing of relativity, he does have somewhat of a point, imo: imo, according to the principle of relativity, you simply can't actually say anything is "really" speeding up or slowing down - like clocks - as many relativity experts do.

So you can't actually say anything is travelling at a "constant" speed, either - like light is said to be travelling "in a vacuum". But in order to measure anything you must have a constant, anyway, or an arbitrarily "fixed" point of view. That's where the speed of light in a vacuum then comes in as a necessary constant, which is convenient since using light - any electromagnetic wave - is how we do have to measure speeds and velocities.

Thus everything becomes measured relative to the "constant" speed of light as a necessary convenience, but in an at least apparent contradiction to the principle of relativity itself.

Maybe higher understandings of relativity wipe away this lower level apparent contradiction. I haven't got that far yet, and/but I know it.
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 2:10 pm | #

J. Peden

Right. Not much readily available. If I find anything I'll let you know. I think it's a good question.
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 2:19 pm | #

J. Peden

What "constant" means w/r to the speed of light (= "c") is that:

(1) The value of "c" determined experimentally by ANY "observer" will ALWAYS be the same, no matter how fast or slow he is traveling relative to the source,
...and
(2) NO "information" can EVER be transmitted faster than "c."

To talk about what "happens" to light when we can't measure it isn't science, unless it accurately predicts things we can measure. But even then, we can't ever know if our "model" is true.

A charlatan will always try to entice you to speculate about things you can never measure, or to consider measurements that seem to support their claims by exploiting your ignorance.

The problem facing the skeptics with relativity is that it works, really really well, and there's no alternative that does.

I don't believe it's the final word, because there are still things it doesn't explain. But those who complain about it have to offer an alternative that predicts the behavior of dynamic systems as well or better, and as yet they can't.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make was that if someone blows their scientific credibility by advocating nonsense, then one will loose credibility by association when citing them, even if they happen to be right about that particular subject (with few, but some, exceptions).

The GW phenomenon has the scientific process turned on it's head. Powerful advocacy groups pretend they hold the scientific high ground, and they don't. They are the real "skeptics" in terms of what is really known, but the've end-run the process to be able to appear to be the more credible faction. They succeed because there are elements of truth, however slim, to some of their claims, and they suppress what is known that contradicts them, and that works better at explaining reality. Eventually they will be put in their place, as always happens.
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 3:08 pm | #

Dispelling ignorance is the first step in enabling oneself to spot a fraud.

Unlike the G.W. skeptics, who don't want to do actual experiments, Relativity theorists are constantly testing and improving their measurements, and have been for a very long time.

The information here is pretty complete, and answers some of the questions the skeptics deem "profound:
http://www2.corepower.com:8080/ ~...relativity.html
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 3:29 pm | #

Hafele and Keating Experiment

"you simply can't actually say anything is "really" speeding up or slowing down - like clocks - as many relativity experts do" -- J Peden

These are the experiments:

""During October, 1971, four cesium atomic beam clocks were flown on regularly scheduled commercial jet flights around the world twice, once eastward and once westward, to test Einstein's theory of relativity with macroscopic clocks. . . . These results provide[ed] an unambiguous empirical resolution of the famous clock "paradox" with macroscopic clocks."

J.C. Hafele and R. E. Keating, Science 177, 166 (1972)
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu...tiv/ airtim.html


ALSO:

"When the first satellite was launched, some engineers resisted the prediction that a noticeable gravitational time dilation would occur, so the first satellite was launched without the clock adjustment built into subsequent satellites. It showed the predicted shift of 38 microseconds per day. If general relativity suddenly stopped working tomorrow, the GPS control center in Colorado would know within hours; the relativistic correction to the timing is large enough to make GPS useless if it is not allowed for."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Tes...eral_relativity

And, regarding the Earth's core, I found this...
"In sum, there was no shortage of heat in the early earth, and the planet's inability to cool off quickly results in the continued high temperatures of the Earth's interior"
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_q...ID=3& topicID=22

Ie., what heat the earht conctains leaks out so slowly (earth is a great insulator) that it probably has next to zero effect.

But maybe you meant volcanism? I don't know how much ocean temps would be globally effected by local variations in volcanic activity. I doubt much, but I could be wrong.
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 4:12 pm | #

Shhhh, don't tell anyone, but the ozone hole is growing
http://powerlineblog.com/archive...ives/ 016725.php
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 02.08.07 - 8:32 pm | #

ytba, I found one source which simply stated that the heat flux outward to the atmosphere, etc., as a result of the Earth's mass was a small .067 Watts/sq.meter. So this would be negligible, and must be due to some pretty strong insulating capacity of the crust. Because I also found that the mantle, containing 80% of the Earth's mass is quite hot, perhaps averaging 3000 degrees C. starting at 190 miles deep, and increasing in temp. going deeper.
http://mediatheek.thinkquest.nl/...5/en/ mantle.htm

It seems to me that the Earth's mass apart from the atmosphere is cooling down, at least raising the question as to whether atmospheric warming might be preferable to no warming, in the long run.
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.09.07 - 1:38 am | #

ytba, regarding the Hefele and Keating expt., both the observatory's and the airliner clocks are moving in a certain way relative to each other, whether the airliner goes east or west. Imo, the airliner clocks could have just as easily said the observatory clock either gained or lost time. But for practical purposes the observatory clock is essentially considered "fixed". So the airliner clocks are the ones which need to be adjusted.

But again I don't know if I know enough to really know what I'm talking about. Yet I've got far enough to become wary when people start talking about "time dilaton" virtually as a physical thing, and have not yet gotten beyond it.

But along the lines of this airliner experiment, I've very simplistically thought about the "kinematic" situation on Earth where a clock at the equator has to be "physically" going a lot faster than a clock near a Pole as they rotate with the Earth, certainly from the perspective of a fixed non-earthbound observer. Yet I am not aware that the one at the Equator slows down. Relative to the earth, the clocks never change position relative to each other, so maybe that explains it.

I'm not saying that corrections based upon the theory of relativity don't work. I'm only holding on, so far, to the idea that you can't say one clock is "really" doing one thing or another, which is apparently exactly why you have to make the corrections relative to what you want your "fixed point" to be to begin with.
J. Peden | Email | Homepage | 02.09.07 - 3:12 am | #

J.Peden

Earth's core stuff.
Good link. Thanks

Relativity stuff.
Sounds like your getting it. Some good observations, too.

regards
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.09.07 - 2:00 pm | #

"WOULD I LIE?"


Canadian environmentalist and well-known broadcaster David Suzuki has taken a leaf from Al Gore's book in using celebrities to fight global warming.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/ 2...cover020907.htm

I guess so.
ytba | Email | Homepage | 02.09.07 - 2:25 pm | #