Not anything new when you've actually looked at what's been happening all over the world and done a little digging in the Qur'an, Hadiths and Sira but, in the West generally, it may actually make some of the sheep look up.
I agree, nothing new. What would be new is the Muslims not going crazy about the film.
I say we start killing these mother f*ckers till they beg our forgiveness.
Bunch o 6th century thugs without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.
Don't hold back, Steve, tell us how you REALLY feel!
(and hold that thought... )
!
I've given it more thought. Why is this film being given such hoopla? There is nothing in it that hasn't been said before. Could it be because the message is coming from a person in public power? Could it be perceived as the first real attempt at resistance?
What do you say Dr Sanity?
It would be nice to see the film distributed with Arabic and Persian subtitles. That way more Muslims could see it as well.
Think about white attitudes 50 years ago. If you're lucky enough to have a living grand parent you could ask what they were, and how they've changed. (And they really have.) One of the factors responsible was media...we were shown what we were doing and how some of our attitudes were truly wrong. Damaging not only to others but to ourselves as well.
But the media doesn't do that today. It refuses to show bad actors as who they are, prefering to portray every bad actor as, predominantly, a combination of one or more of the following exterior characteristics: white, extreamist christian terrorist, executive,business man/woman, rich, a "big" company (oil, pharmaceutical or arms manufacturing),a govt. bureaucrat a concervative, or a conservative politician.
"Fitna" isn't saying anything new. It is just a new media package addressed to a Dutch audience, which may not have seen Islam dressed up as the bad guy. But, it isn't addressed to Muslims, and something similar really should be. They need to be shown how truly damaging some of their beliefs really are to themselves as a people and as individuals.
Why isn't there a Hallmark movie about two teenage Muslim girls killed by their Muslim father? No way. But you could easily see a movie about a Christian fundamentalist killing his two daughters to save their soul, or something. The latest "Law and Order" episode convicted a Christian fundamentalist for stoning to death a woman who had an affair. But we haven't done anything like that for a long time. Think about it. "A Scarlet Letter" was published in 1850. The woman in this case is forced to wear a scarlet letter "A" once she is convicted of the crime of adultry. It is set in the 1600's. The author was critical of the practice and her sentence is portrayed as a travesty of justice.
Now, one could argue that Hollywood does at least show that stonning women to death is wrong, but by saying falsely that Christians of any stripe stone people to death, in the 21st Century, what kind of message does it send to a Muslim with a rock in his hand?
Have you ever seen "Reefer Madness". It is watched as comedy, even though the original purpose was to provide a cautionary tale about marijuana use. The comedy is today generated by the dichotomy between the ludicrous claims made by the movie of the drug's effects and the actual effects.
I think in the years ahead we will see a lot more of this, but it won't just be fiction, we will see old live shots of people going on record and then comparing it to what has really happened. There may be some laughs, but we'll have more tears.
There's no point trying to get Muslims to out their own. They just won't do it. Loyalty to Islam and fellow muslims comes before family or state.
How racist of you, Dr. Sanity. Don't you know we're supposed to judge Muslims by their finest and most anodyne statements rather than by everything they do? It is the Relgion of Peace, after all.
The story about the movie of course, be greater (than the movie). And included in that story, the scum swilling cowards in our midst (Network Solutions).
I found the film to be as many have, i.e. what's the big deal? We've pretty much known it all for many a year now, adding our voices to the watch being called. In the film's favor is that it is rather tame, mild, conservative, and understated.
As of an hour ago ... over three hundred sites/individuals have embedded the player in/on their site (myself included).
That be the true story. We will stand. We will be counted. We will not surrender. We will not die on our knees. We will live as free men and women.
.
============================
Note, presumably very offensive word used below --
My advance apologies.
It's a quote and in context, though, so it seems as though it bears its being used full force, rather than "neutered" with asterisks.
============================
> Think about white attitudes 50 years ago. If you're lucky enough to have a living grand parent you could ask what they were, and how they've changed. (And they really have.)
LOL. I'm half-Italian.
My mother took me, in "swaddling clothes" to my G-grandparents' house to show me off. As my mother tells it, my G-gm opened the door and saw me. My G-Gf (born ca. 1870, in Iowa or Illinois, I forget) was sitting in a chair, saw her in the doorway with me, and said, quite loudly, "You're not bringing that nigger baby in my house!". My G-gm was unhappy, but she closed the door in my mothers' face.
Says a lot, I think, about attitudes as a whole. Both my paternal grandparents came over on the boat from *Italy*, yet I wasn't "white" enough for the old SOB's approval. Things have indeed changed -- a lot.
(Note: he passed away a couple years later. I was over at my G-gm' house many, many times after that. I would have no idea of this disapproval from my G-Gm's behavior that I recall)
I'm also put in mind of this quote:
"My forebears were Confederate... Every factor and influence in my background -- and my wife's, for that matter -- would foster the personal belief that you are right.
But my very stomach turned over when I learned that negro soldiers, just back from overseas, were being dumped out of Army trucks in Mississippi and beaten.
Whatever my inclinations as a native of Missouri might have been, as President, I know this is bad. I shall fight to end evils like this."
- Harry S Truman -
I also highly recommend the excellent movie A Soldiers' Story, which depicts life in the Army during WWII, and gives what I believe is a fairly realistic view of the relationship between whites and blacks.
People who read this blog did not see anything new, but there are so many others who remain in the dark. One half of united states that blindly votes for democrats, "progressive" europeans,.... If only they could see this information, that will be the real task for this movie. blog videos are not enough. this should be shown on regular brodcast tv stations, it should be shown often.
Rick; I think the hoopla is about the attempts to prevent us from seeing it, censor or ban something and everyone wants to see it.
My hope is that this will make the Islamic moderates look seriously at renouncing these fascist grubs.
Islam has been in Australia since early settlement without much in the way of problems, in fact they were generally respected for most of that time, until the shit hit the fan from problems with the more recent arrivals.
We fought the Turks in WW1, and our troops generally came back with more respect for them than for the Pommies.
Though one might believe there is nothing new in "FITNA" one must understand that the "media" is not going to inform the general public. I have already copied a couple of links to this and emailed it to several people. My hope is that they will in turn mail it to others who will mail it to others.............
If the word is going to get out then we have to do it.
The quicker this happens the less likely some organ of government can keep the people from seeing it.
One only has to look at the ties between the democratic party, Saddam, FARC et al, to understand that they have every reason to keep this quiet.
Its either 9th century barbarism or 21th century civilization. There is no middle ground. If we value our lives and our civilization, we must take them at their word and act accordingly.
The only workable response here is do unto them as they would do unto us and do it without regret, without reservation, and without mercy. The goal being the total eradication of their pernicious death cult. If this means the death of every Islamic on earth, then so be it.
It is not our responsibility to save them from anything nor, for that matter, to teach them anything. Our responsibility is only to defend ourselves by whatever means necessary. We have the capacity and every moral right to do so.
Do we value our lives enough to do it? For over a half century, the answer from our so called leaders has been at best an equivocated yes that's worse than a no. Will the answer be a clear and resounding yes soon enough to do any good? That remains to be seen.
Another sobering reality: Zealots among us.
Quote:
The common factors in these campaigns of zealotry are:
• Creation and maintenance of a myth.
• Ignoring all evidence countering the myth
• Ad hominem attacks on opponents
• Encouraging authoritarian governments to impose taxes and reduce individual freedom
• Promotion of limits and constraints that are simply invented without reason
• Collusion by the establishment media
• Damage to science and its methods
• Elimination of things that makes life bearable
• Making some people very rich while impoverishing the lives of almost everyone else.
They will not be satisfied until they have you shivering in a cave, sipping thin gruel.
From: http://
scienceandpublicpolicy.or...he_zealots.html
The whole article is worthy of a reading.
I thought it was interesting that there was a reference to a hypothetical man committing adultery; then it mentioned a woman doing the same. For some reason, he simply ended with the call to stone her. It could have been the structure of the sentence, but have there ever been men stoned for adultery? Sodomy, yes, but that's different.
I am appalled at the 51% of the Muslim population who are so insulted by the words and actions of "the prophet." A father in the west [jokingly] polishes his shotgun when a boy comes to take out his daughter, as a not-so-subtle reminder that he'd better tread lightly. In Islam, that violence is turned on the daughter, no matter who errs in the course of events.
Why are feminists silent?
A. Rational Human | Email | Homepage | 03.28.08 - 10:05 am | #
Looks like the gun control game plan.
Guns beat swords every time it's tried.
I carry my license to kill on my hip and in my instinctive need to defend myself against enemies, foreign and domestic.
The FITNA film demonstrates the attitudes of bullies everywhere. Death threats used as compliance device. What these particular bullies really want is our women and our gold.
Since this tactic is successful with the fearful and lame among us, confronting it becomes the task of the courageous few. Always has, always will.
If I were to compare some of these religious leader's statements with our good Christian Reverend Wright's (Barak's daddy...)--seems to me they just might be "birds of a feather" who flock together, right?
Come unto me...you ignorant bastards...and do what I tell you!
Same game, just a different century and locale.
We fight them until we can't---Starbuck
Stoned for adultery?
If the writers of "Law and Order" knew even tha basics of Christian theology they would know that Christ interceeded on behalf of a woman who was about to be stoned for adultery.
What a crock. Why deal with reality when you can make it up as you go along?
The best is when the MSM media does a History Channel presentation on the Christian faith....talk about the blind leading the stupid!
Oh well, I guess if "Rev." Wright claims to be Christian, then anything goes.
These folks better pray there is no God!
WATCH THIS ONE NEXT!!!
http://video.google.com/videopla...earch&
plindex=1
Wr_guy,
All it takes to be a Christian is to profess you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior and that he died for your sins. No other substantiative fact, act, or belief is involved.
There are many hundreds of self professed Christian sects, each with their own mutually exclusive dogmas. They each hold that all the others are not really truly fully Christian and that they alone know the "one true way". They may pretend tolerance and wide acceptance but, at the core, there is none. Otherwise, there would and could be only one Christian sect.
Even if the Christian's so called God exists, he is clearly not involved with his creation here on earth. Especially considering all the violence done and contradictory beliefs that are held in his name. (Cue the protestation that the evil is done by man driven by Satan and the good is done by God even though neither God nor Satan is anywhere in evidence and never has been.)
At least the Christian sects in the US have largely been tamed and more or less co-exist with 21st century civilization. This cannot be said of the Islamic sects of any persuasion.
Those wondering about the "hoopla":
This is a man, a real mensche, drawing a line in the sand in the face of large scale terroristic threats.
May God protect him and may as many men as possible come to his aid in this time.
They have told the world what the world must not say or show -- the truth.
We can easily spot all those cowards who willingly concede to that criminal demand.
The litigational jihad has already begun against this brave man, to be followed by the violence.
All those who stand for truth and freedom should stand alongside him, nay, in FRONT of him, and show all enemies of truth and justice that their chosen path will NOT be tolerated.
If you do nothing when they come for him, there will be nobody left to do anything when they come for YOU.
!
Two thoughts:
First, the big deal about Fitna isn't islam, it's about dhimmitude. If Fitna had been produced and shown, no big deal would have resulted - as many of you are saying, what's the big deal - we already knew this. But the Dutch government has tried to prevent this film from being shown. No TV station in Holland was willing to air it. Network Communications has pulled any mention of it (read a comment somewhere that said that Network Communications either was or is owned by someone in the ME, by the way) although it airs Hamas sites. When you have a society unwilling to challenge islam, you have a society in dhimmitude. _That's_ the story. For more awareness of what's going on about islam in Europe: http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/
Second thought: Law and Order.
I wonder if they aren't using a bit of dhimmitude and reverse psychology on this one. I hope so. I'm hoping that they didn't want to wake the sleeping islamist legal terrorists, but knew that the storyline was so obviously about the practices of islam and that making it about Christians was so absurd that viewers would know in a heartbeat that it was bogus. I hope so, in any case. In spite of their politically correct(sometimes conservative offensive) liberal bent, I find it to be one of the few recently made TV programs that I enjoy. I'd hate to have to put it on my "no way!" list!
> Why are feminists silent?
They were silent for Bill when he sexually harassed his interns.
They were silent when they were referring to Condi as a "pickaninny" and a "minah bird".
Modern Feminism has no principles. Only allies and targets for destruction. The acts of neither have nothing to do with which category they are placed in... the category is only defined by the category which the orthodoxy places them. "Against America" (esp. males in America) is one of the key premises of the orthodoxy.
> Do we value our lives enough to do it? For over a half century, the answer from our so called leaders has been at best an equivocated yes that's worse than a no.
They were doing the same thing with Communism. They are chicken-sh** "pacifist" cowards with all the stolidity of two tons of lard lying out on the Bonneville Salt Flats on July Fourth. About the only "defense" that they offer is a lot of inertia.
> If the writers of "Law and Order" knew even tha basics of Christian theology they would know that Christ interceeded on behalf of a woman who was about to be stoned for adultery.
Interesting you mention that... It's rather unique in its expectations of humanity:
"A great rabbi stands teaching in the marketplace. It happens that a husband finds proof that morning of his wife's adultery, and a mob carries her to the marketplace to stone her to death.
The Rabbi walks forward and stands beside the woman. Out of respect for him, the mob forbears, and waits with the stones heavy in their hands. 'Is there anyone here,' he says to them, 'who has not desired another man's wife, another woman's husband?'
They murmur and say, 'We all know the desire. But Rabbi, none of us has acted on it.'
The rabbi says 'Then kneel down and give thanks that God made you strong.' He takes the woman by the hand and leads her out of the market. Just before he lets her go, he whispers to her: 'Tell the lord magistrate who saved his mistress. Then he'll know I am his loyal servant.
So the woman lives, because the community is too corrupt to protect itself from disorder.
Another rabbi, another city. He goes to her and stops the mob, as in the other story, and says: 'Which of you is without sin? Let him cast the first stone!'
The people are abashed, and they forget their unity of purpose in the memory of their own individual sins. Someday, they think, I may be like this woman, and I'll hope for forgiveness and another chance. I should treat her the way I wish to be treated.
As they open their hands and let the stones fall to the ground, the rabbi picks up one of the fallen stones, lifts it high over the woman's head, and throws it straight down with all his might. It crushes her skull and dashes her brains all over the cobblestones.
'Nor am I without sin,' he says to the people. 'But if we allow only perfect people to enforce the law, the law will soon be dead, and our city with it.'
So the woman died because her community was too rigid to endure her deviance.
The [third, more famous] version of this story is noteworthy because it is so startlingly rare in our experience. Most communities lurch between decay and rigor mortis, and when they veer too far, they die. Only one rabbi dared to expect of us such a perfect balance that we could preserve the law and still forgive the deviation. So, of course, we killed Him."
- 'Speaker for the Dead', Orson Scott Card -
Interesting viewpoint of the event in question.
.
> Second thought: Law and Order. I wonder if they aren't using a bit of dhimmitude and reverse psychology on this one.
No, they're just Leftist idiots. The first episode(IIRC) of the short-lived "Law and Order: Trial By Jury" actually had a judge making the bald-faced lie of a claim that "You know jury nullification has been ruled illegal".
That would be an outright lie, Jury Nullification (also here) has been inarguably legal since the SCotUS ruled so in 1895 (the SCotUS indicated that the legal system has no requirement to indicate their rights to the juty, but they did not reject that the jury had no such rights. Subsequent decisions by the SCotUS, notably in 1969 and 1972, have upheld that position). The right of jury nullification is an important bulwark in citizens retaining the final power over their government, and in restricting the power of vocal and/or powerful minorities in directing the law down a channel the majority would reject as unacceptable.
(continued)
(continued from above)
In the past, it has protected escaped slaves from prosecution under the Fugitive Slave Laws and was a strong factor in repealing Prohibition, by nullifying the prosecution of such cases, rendering it defacto null and void. One can see how such nullification may serve a purpose in the future, in cases of laws involving gun control (and/or attempts to subvert the Right to Bear Arms), decrying "religious intolerance" (you know what I mean) and/or "racial offense" laws (both have an ironical connection to the first American example of Jury Nullification, as well as to a key English Case).
While there certainly have been abuses of nullification, this would be true of all powers in the hands of inherently flawed human beings. The protections it affords the citizenry against government abuse is much more critical.
You should resist all efforts to subvert and/or reduce the powers of juries to nullify.
.
"It could have been the structure of the sentence, but have there ever been men stoned for adultery?"
Yes, I saw a photo sequence of a man and woman both being stoned for adultery in Iran. But every other film or photo I've seen has been of a woman only, regardless of circumstances.
>>You should resist all efforts to subvert and/or reduce the powers of juries to nullify.>>
My b-i-l is a judge. He considers jury nullification to be ... well, wrong, I guess. I can't remember if he said he thought it was or should be illegal. My husband agrees. After all, both of them hold, a law is a law, and if you don't like it, vote the lawmakers out of office.
Riiight. Like _that's_ a simple thing to do!
I'm with you. I see it also as the ultimate power of the people against unjust laws.
Just rebels at heart, I guess!
LiveLeak has pulled Fitna due to death threats. It can still be found at The Jawa Report
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/
We've seen what liberalism has done to Christian religion in the west. Ridicule and scorn have diminished our Christian mores and our society reflects that loss. Perhaps this is why radical muslims object to movies like Fitna and Obsession and the mo'toons. If their religion loses its power to itimidate, so too will the mullahs, imams and ayatollahs lose the power to incite their followers to commit these stupid violent acts. Just a thought.
Liveleak must be a liberal site. They surrendered as soon as they got any threat.
The fundamental question is what is more important, freedom or Islam? We tolerate all kinds of outrages against people and institutions, in the name of freedom of speech. Muslims should be educated to the fact that we don't share their cultural values. That's multiculturalism.
More on Fitna. Please check this out.
http://theneinblog.blogspot.com/...itna-
movie.html
"Suek
Second thought: Law and Order.
I wonder if they aren't using a bit of dhimmitude and reverse psychology on this one."
Third thought: Law and Order
More Abortion Doctors/clinics bombed story lines have been done in LO episodes than in real life (Which is why LO is not watched anymore in my house). So while I would like to think it is reverse psychology, past attitudes tend to go against this thought.
Heard this on a talk show yesterday 
Yes Islam is a religion of peace- They want a piece of this country, a piece of that country and a piece of everything else.
I wonder if prior to WWII, a similar movie had been made about the Nazis. Would the countries have just left the Evil to continue to multiply? Here we see the Evil and we fail to take even the simplest of economic actions or change immigration goals to stop it. At least prior to WWII, most of the people were ignorant about the threat. Now we do not have that excuse.
Help the third world one micro-loan at a time- www.kiva.org
All these suspect verses were in the Koran twenty years ago. They were in there 100 years ago. They were in there 500 years ago.
The ONLY reason they've come to notice lately, is the Western mind parasite of multiculturalism that enables the muslims to actually act on those verses without barrier.
Its not the barbaric muslim thats tilting this world toward incredible violence and chaos. It is the voluntary insanity of the post modern multiculturalist we are infested with in the west.
Multiculturalsim as its practiced now, has no ability to differentiate between cultural quirks in differing societies and outright evil.
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