The Ebolaworld Happy Fun Blog Comment Post Page
i'm glad you watched it Sam. I loved it, but what did you think?
A pretty funny episode. But all the different twists in the 9/11 story made it intresting.
I thought it was pretty spot on, as is usual with South Park. Perhaps the most crude program on television, but also the funniest and closest to reality.
in case you guys didn't catch it, the whole ep was based off of this conspiracy theory vid called "Loose Change", was was TOTAL BULSHIT, even for a conspiracy theory.
Saw it last night. Pretty good. I liked the part were Dubya blew that guy's brains out (but not realy).
Personally, this is what I think the 9/11 conspiracy is:
1) The hijackers were trained by the Royal Saudi Air Force
2) The Bush administration screwed up
I lost respect for Stone & Parker years ago. The early seasons had good social humor, the later ones flawed political humor.
Many wild 911 theories came out and discredited the ACTUAL conspiracy that occurred. All that attention to how the towers came down and the cruise missile distract from historical fact: PNAC, $, and power.
For unbelievers:
911 Timeline
http://
www.cooperativeresearch.o...ect=911_project
PNAC Timeline
http://demopedia.democraticunder...ex.php/
PNAC_101
PS - 911Truth.org is a poorly organized website, but has good links.
The hippie speaks! :D
Look, Jeremy. The PNAC timeline is old news, no one has denied it, just because they mentioned a "catalysing event" would be required to initiate the campaign outlined in "Rebuilding America's Defenses" doesn't mean they executed it themselves. Get a grip, stop being a paranoid alarmist, stop listening to Anti-Flag, and get off the weed. You missed Woodstock by a couple years I'm afraid.
You want a point-by-point dismantling of your pathetically flimsy pothead formulated conspiracy theories? Eat up, you're about to get served some pwnage son.
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/
factshe...faqs_8_2006.htm
http://www.popularmechanics.com/...aw/
1227842.html
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/
...hangeGuide.html
So nah, I can't say I've lost respect for Trey or Matt, hell, SP gets better with each season. I have lost quite a bit of respect for you though, anyone who believes in this bullcrap really needs to grow up. I'm calling you unpatriotic or a terrorist, I'm calling you a fucking retard.
Like 1/4 of all Americans.
At least.
:D
"I'm not calling you unpatriotic, just retarded"
(i so wish blogs had edit buttons 
)
Trey Parker and Matt Stone are libertarians, and libertarians usually do not like conspiracy theories. I've seen Penn and Teller (who are also libertarians) do an episode smacking down 9/11 conspiracies as well. However, neither have persuaded me from what I really think.
I love South Park and thought it was a good episode nonetheless.
Why Sam? Why do you believe in something with absolutely no basis behind it except extravagant rhetoric and nonsensical conjecture?
Honestly, thats as bad as redneck conservatives still believing Iraq had WMD, come on.
Our beliefs must be dictated by reason, not silly whims, inner-"feelings", mystic revelations, or the like. Suscribing to such a cult of reason-defiance would be to surrender ourselves to bias, resulting in an intellectual bankruptcy and the purest form of ignorance.
If you really believe 9/11 was perpetrated by the government, please provide me VALID, CONCRETE, IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE to that end. Otherwise, I have no reason to believe.
Everyone should have seen 9/11 coming, I can't understand why you think Islamic radicals attacking America is such a ludicrous prospect, I would advise you to read a superb book called "The Looming Tower".
I'm not being mean here, just consciensous criticism froma long-time fan man.
Taco King,
You're right. You're not being mean -- you're just setting up strawmen which betray your false assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you. Neither teh_guy nor Sam T said ANY of the stuff you responded to them about. Nor have they made ANY of the claims which you falsely attribute to them. In this you are guilty of the very things you criticize others of.
Indeed, let our beliefs (about others) be dictated by reason and the facts. Please, no more strawman arguments from you.
:P
What? Can you not read? Jeremy CLEARLY stated his opinion that he believes 9/11 was a government conspiracy, as did Sam, except not as blatantly. What the hell are you talking about?
Taco King, I actually didn't state what I believe. However, you are correct in that I have no proof. It is just a feeling that I have based on what I have observed. I am not saying I am correct, and my thoughts do evolve over time based on new things I've learned.
I used to believe we never landed on the moon until I saw a documentary that gave solid proof we did. :D
I know you didn't outright state your views, but it was easy to guess considering your commentary in the old GBS episodes. :D
Conspiracy theories are fun things that people can have in the back of their minds...like we never landed on the moon, 9/11 was planned...the world is ran by shepeshifting lizard people...
But if you actually examine these theories with any real scrutiny you can easily conclude that they hold little to no water. Like what you said, the whole "moon landing staged" thing seems plausible for a whole two seconds, then you watch the full refutation and realize how all the allegations were completely unfounded, which is exactly the case for 9/11 conspiracy theories. Heres a perfect example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4...h?
v=4SgjWGVHxW8
Now I'm going to bed, g'night all.
What you say is true, but I have yet to see any evidence that disproves my thoughts on 9/11; quite the opposite actually. And believe me when I say I think about this everyday in a rational way.
Also, I dont consider these beliefs to be fun. In fact, they are what made me turn against the Bush Administration, as I supported them before 9/11.
Lastly, just because I said or showed something in a cartoon doesn't mean I believe it. A joke is a joke.
TK's first two links are 100% pointless. They focus on silly 9-11 myths about how the towers went down.
TK's last link actually attempts to address real issues, but fails miserably.
Rumsfeld & NORAD:
TK's link downplays his change to NORAD procedure. He made it impossible to launch jets without his explicit permission. The link does not note this.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/
he...cord_ashley.pdf
NORAD's record:
TK's link mentions that NORAD intercepted golfer Stewart Payne's plane, but forgot to note the interception time: 19 min. 9-11 interception time: >1 hr.
http://www.rense.com/general45/911.htm
http://www.vanityfair.com/featur...al/
060801fege01
PNAC & military spending: TK's link is horribly off the mark - the goal in Iraq was to get oil, not increase military spending. Spending was to increase via terrorist shadow-enemies. Does not mention Lockheed Martin - PNAC connection or PNAC-Bush connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Pro..._administration
COMPLETELY OMMITTED:
1. The Bojinka Plot, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and Ramsey Yousef. The FBI was told of the 9-11 plot in 1995 and had the principal plotter in custody - then let him go.
http://
www.cooperativeresearch.o...c_cases=bojinka
2. Dick Cheney's Energy Task Force, which doled out oil contracts in Iraq in March 2001.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/pri...-oil-
maps.shtml
3. The US discussed deposing the Taliban with Iran, Germany, and Italy in May 2001, and laid formal plans before 9-11.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/o...zation/
7969.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south...sia/
1550366.stm
4. PNAC member Paul Wolfowitz created the Office of Special Plans, which began cherry-picking intelligence for invading Iraq immediately after 9-11.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...ain520830.shtml
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=c...us&ct=clnk&
cd=3
http://www.sourcewatch.org/
index...f_Special_Plans
That's just a sampling of the real conspiracy. It's too bad insults don't substitute for substance.
Sam, mai i inquire what your beliefs on 9/11 are?
teh_guy, you're right, I admit defeat. But I think you're only half-right, you forgot the part about the Zelrath-Prime Conspiracy, check out this reliable source on the matter:
http://www.alienscaused911thetru...threvealed.net/
Holy crap! The link isn't working! The GOVERNMENT MUST HAVE SHUT DOWN THE SITE! ITS ALL TRUE!!!!!!
"puts on foil hat and hides in bunker"
Dear Anonymous:
Thank you so much for reading my wholly invalid links from the 9-11 commission, the US Dept. of State, the BBC, CBS news, and reprints of documents obtained via the Freedom of Information Act.
Since your well-thought-out response used data from the Library of Congress and Lexis Nexis, it is clear that you're a talented researcher. You should go into policy.
Seriously, though, I recommend generating an online ID and studying historical facts. Let me know when you're ready for a real discussion.
The 9/11 Commission?
Don't make laugh. I've read it, not once does it even remotely suggest that the attacks were perpetrated by the US government, go put on a foil hat and spare us your lies.
Was it a governement conspiracy? I don't excactly believe so. I believe the governemtn had knowledge of the imminent terror attacks and didn;t do anything about it. But it was islamic radicalists that actually attakced
Did the government fake the attacks? No
Did the government fuck up? Yes
Very nice, a real discussion is underway!
Future Pres - you got it. There's 0 evidence that the US gov't perpetrated the attacks, and mountains of evidence that the FBI & Bush admin knew about the 9-11 plot and did nothing.
Anonymous - you still need a name! It is clear that the US screwed up. The question is, was it intentional? Was something gained by letting it happen? That would make it a conspiracy.
The US Navy knows that PNAC wanted to overthrow middle-eastern countries for >10 years:
http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2.../
salhiApr05.asp
Why? Oil. Whoever controls oil rules the world. Demand is at its highest and reserves are running out. From US Dept. Energy and Bush advisor Matt Simmons:
Summary - http://www.hubbertpeak.com/deffeyes/
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/
oil_g...ilsupply04.html
http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/fi...es/
Stanford.pdf
Also $$ - Oil contracts went to PNAC member Cheney's Halliburton, military contracts to Lockheed Martin (also PNAC), who has VP's in the White House:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/...4/
121004A.shtml
http://www.corpwatch.org/article...ist=type&
type=9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Pro..._administration
Evidence + motive = crime.
We already know the suspects - they merely needed their "new Pearl Harbor" to act.
TK - Read it again. It's all about willful negligence.
Just because 9/11 occured doesn't mean they planned it or wanted it to happen, it only indicates the bush administration's ignorance and ineptitude.
I suppose Hurricane Katrina was a conspiracy against New Orleans, right Jeremy? I mean hell, there was plenty of evidence illustrating its inevitability, yet nothing was done about it right? So I guess that was a big government conspiracy too yeah?
Really, by your logic, any disaster or attack where evidence existed that it was going to occur, yet nothing was done about it, proves a government conspiracy. Brilliant.
Now if you'lle xcuse me, I'm going to go make another foil-hate before I get brainwashed by the alien microwaves eminating from AT&T (Alliance of Tiberian Transmutants) headquarters.
it was a pretty funny episode, lots of twists and turns in the story..
Sorry, I wont be sharing my thoughts on 9/11, at least not here. As for the episode itself, it was quite good as ususal. I always enjoy South Parks take on things. However, I knew the writers were libertarians, so the conclusion to this episode was expected.
great episode.
TK - I don't see any supporting documentation for your argument.
Negligence is different than criminal negligence.
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici...%3E2.0.CO%3B2-
2
Yes, Bush & co. were negligent with respect to Katrina. But what did they gain from it? A motive is required to establish criminal intent.
Since Bush & co. had much to gain from 9-11, this establishes motive. Let's try that equation again:
Evidence + motive = crime
Nonsense Jeremy! Halliburton certainly made a healthy profit from Katrina!
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
...ne_katrina.html
Must have been a conspiracy against black people, George Bush hates black people after all right?
Dead link, nothing on their site works.
Tad - which link? I got the past few to work. Maybe a server was down or Javascript was off, perhaps try again.
TK - you finally cited your 2nd relevant link for your argument! Hooray!
Don't know much about Katrina. Perhaps Bush & co. were merely opportunistic. Show evidence that contracts were dealt out before the hurricane, or that Bush & co. stated a desire to destroy/redo New Orleans, and I'll call it a conspiracy.
You haven't challenged any of my sources nor my argument for criminality (vs. negligence). Will you be doing so?
No, I won't be. You can maintain the belief that Bush and his cohorts PLANNED 9/11 and the subsequent affairs surrounding it if you wish, its a matter of belief that can neither be affirmed or denied without a doubt, its still a conspiracy theory by nature, don't speak of it as fact.
It is undoubtable that the Bush clan were highly opportunistic and coercive about 9/11, and certainly used it to execute the plan they had been cooking for ages. But call me a sentimentalist, I simply cannot believe that they are so inconceivably vile as to deliberately ALLOW 9/11 to happen. And if this was true, certainly it would have been a conclusion made by the 9/11 Commission. I have read the report, this conclusion has never been made.
And frankly, this discussion has grown long-stale, the new SP episode is airing tomorrow, and I don't care anymore.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/pe...ogs/peek/24840/
MUST have been a conspiracy against black people!
Heil the Illuminati.
TK - I'm glad that, as a minimum, you acknowledge that PNAC-Bush & co. abused the 9-11 tragedy for their personal gain.
Keep in mind that I'm arguing 9-11 was permitted, not planned, by Bush & co.
The 9-11 Commission's job was to mitigate damage to Clinton and Bush I & II. Many facts were flushed via limited witness testimony.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Arti...le.asp?
ID=16795
I think it is highly probable that 9-11 was allowed to happen to ignite a decade-old money-power scheme. Plans for war & war contracts before 9-11 serve as the smoking gun in a criminal case with much evidence and heavy motive.
I'm disappointed that you haven't presented evidence for your position. However, I'm pleased that you will probably continue to review historical data to support or reject your claims.
Enjoy the new South Park!
-teh_guy
What? The Bush clan taking advantage of 9/11 and playing on people's emotions for its own agenda isn't some astute observation held by the select few enlightened souls out there, I've always held that view, as do most Americans at this point. I just don't believe that they would be so vicious as to deliberately allow it to happen, just mind-bendingly incompetent enough to let teh evidence slip through their fingers. Again, if there is such strong evidence that it was a deliberate plot, the 9/11 commission would have surely filed such in its report, it did not.
And I will enjoy it, best humor on television.
Finally, another month of Taco King belligerence. Note the juxtaposition of ":D" and with "I'm calling you a fucking reatard". Lovely.
Oooooh, Colin learned some new words in 8th grade english class! Hurray!
Take a hint, no one is really serious on Ebolaworld boards/blogs, I don't think he's a retard, just terribly misguided and cynical.
YOU, on the other hand, yes indeed are a fucking retard.
:D
I personally believe that 9-11 was allowed to happen by the Bush Administration to let them get away with all sorts of other awful stuff. The other things involving explosions at the base of the towers being set up and a missile shooting through the pentagon are things I also consider, though I'm not sure I believe in them or not. Taco King, Beliefs aren't things you need proof for, all you need to do is think they're true. This is why you can't force someone to change their beliefs with your beliefs.
Now onto the actual episode. Based on South Park's recent tendency to be more like an animated blog than an actual cartoon, I knew it would end with the 9-11 believers being dissed. I watched it anyways, and although the conspiracy twist was entertaining, the end result was just like I expected.
I'm disappointed in South Park. It used to be about a town full of kooky characters and odd situations, but now its just whatever opinion Matt and Trey can pull out of their ass and stretch into 22 minutes. I haven't heard anything about 9-11 for quite a while now, so why do this episode 5 years after the fact? If some people want to make websites about their beliefs, let them do it. I don't think going out of your way to label a large group of people "retards" (thus further crushing the debate these people have a right to hold) is in any way clever or satirical. It's about as satirical as calling Cher fans fags.
Matt and Trey's libertarianism doesn't excuse them from settling into a formulaic, unsatisfying formula that only reaffirms the thinking of a majority of america while labeling everyone else as idiots. If South Park was ever thought-provoking, it's not now. South Park does best without the characters used as vehicles for attacks on others. Which is a shame, since I rather like Kyle.
Now maybe I'm just blowing hot air since I did enjoy the Wal-Mart episode (even though it goes against the earlier underpants gnomes lesson) and the Family Guy 2-parter. Maybe South Park is an equal-opportunity offender and is trying to piss everybody off. But come on, just calling people who don't agree with you as retards is weak. Like conspiracy theories don't get a bad enough image as it is.
"now its just whatever opinion Matt and Trey can pull out of their ass and stretch into 22 minutes"
Yeah, I concur. It's not so much that they occasionally disagree with me, but rather entire episodes now seem like preaching sessions, whereas before they'd state their opinion through several incisive jokes.
"why do this episode 5 years after the fact?"
I think that's how long it took for the American populace to realize they got hosed by the gov't, giving momentum for the "9-11 truth movement."
Bluh, you two are making the presumption (based on seemingly nothing) that all of South Park's humor is political. The first episode of teh season was situated in the World of Warcraft universe cor crying out loug, they just poke fun at whatevers popular, and are really funny at it.
TK - Clearly not every episode is political. However, I feel that they are more frequently political and preachy, rather than jokingly political.
Like, "you should think this, and if you don't, you're gay."
"they just poke fun at whatevers popular, and are really funny at it."
-TK
I'd second that. : )
I loved it, who cares if it is a preaches session at least it gets jokes across. Thank god the anal probing days in south park are over.
The thing is, you believe that every fourth American believes the same crazy remote control plane theory. This in my opinion takes away from what the majority believes, that the administration either looked the other way when they received intelligence of the attack or was directly involved in funding Al Qaeda. If anything, Karl Rove was scared shitless of this kind of thinking that would bring unity to a whole giant group of people that have been connecting the dots the past few years, and decided to hire some people to make a whole bunch of youtube movies to change to entire original theory.
Or it just worked out to Karl Rove's liking.
Don't think that everyone in the 9/11TM believe the Loose Change side of the theory. I'm sure there was quite a few, and I'm sure maybe every tenth American is now convinced due to the hours and hours of these movies now all over the internet, but the people that originally connected the dots logically are skeptical enough to know that a remote control bomb wasn't flown into the pentagon due to the fact that paying/at least letting Al Qaeda, and even possibly setting up security so they could commit their crimes (see NORAD) would be much more along the lines of this government's keen planning.
yeah this episode iz cool but it aint really all about 9/11
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