If these glamourized ideals found only in bad movies are what manliness is, then mediocrity isn't just okay, it's something to aspire to. Call me when Red Adar gives up writing and sets off for the oil rigs.
America was built by alphas: aggressive, authoritative, ambitious men who took control, spoke out and even (gasp!) fought for what was right.
If history had put Jim Halpert up to commanding the men and the love of the Continental Army, or if the Declaration of Independence/British death warrant was waiting for the signature of one "Peter Parker," I think we would find ourselves in a much different nation.
Canada would be so much nicer if it was further south.
Is Adar Kielczewski the wimp relative of Ralph "Blood 'n' Guts" Peters?
Oh, and you "swelled up [and] turned green" - see a doc about that, mate... Though you've probably had enough doctors lately.
"with Spider-Man fighting for us, the Revolutionary War would have been over in about two hours"
Yeah, but then the Redcoats would have had Captain Britain or Robin Hood fighting for them. SNort.
Roy, this reminds me of Philosoraptor's response to Kim du Toit's "Wimpification of the Western male." http://
philosoraptor.blogspot.co...841038906562042
I don't wanna know about powdered wigs and spider sense tingling ...
just saying.
Napoleon Dynamite, Spiderman, Shrek and "The Office,"
I can't think of a more random assortment of pop references. Maybe:
We like the message of Webster, Caspar the Friendly Ghost, Chewbacca and Cousin Larry from "Perfect Strangers," because it tells us softly, "It's okay to be mediocre."
Maybe Kielczewski is channelling the Comics Curmudgeon, but he is right: Peter Parker is a total wuss.
And ol' Abe sure did kick ass! I saw it myself in a Star Trek episode.
I'm glad Roy brought up WWII, which shows that Kielczewski is right, just not about now, 'cause the supremely passive beta male Mr. Limpet destroyed half the Nazi U-boat fleet, you know.
If history had put Jim Halpert up to commanding the men and the love of the Continental Army, or if the Declaration of Independence/British death warrant was waiting for the signature of one "Peter Parker," I think we would find ourselves in a much different nation.
If history had put Bugs Bunny in command, we would find ourselves a much different nation too. Unfortunately history, like Kielczewski, is a maroon.
Apparently Mr Kielczewski thinks the Declaration of Independence was signed by Paul Bunyan rather than by a cabal of effete periwigged intellectuals and merchants.
And I say that with all due deference to your national mythologies.
Don't those guys understand that The Office a comedy, and that unassuming antiheroes like Halpert have been typical of comedy through the ages? It was ridiculous enough in the 80s when they were going after Woody Allen for the same reasons even in the pages of Harper's--but now Spiderman? Spiderman is politically incorrect? I'd throw my Aristotle at them if it weren't in paperback.
Those guys do not understand the Western culture they claim to defend.
"Alpha men make up 75% of nation's top executives."
Huh? Where the hell did he get THAT statistic, and just how is it collected?
Huh? Where the hell did he get THAT statistic, and just how is it collected?
Adar Kielczewski's libido is a strange and frightening place.
Reel mean due to dearth, moosies. Real means fly. Not web! Gasps not like comix lady gasp. Comix lady gasp in bubble! Ream means (dearth too) gasp in sentence. Means rhetoric - no bubbles!
Paul Bunyan, by the way, is an early-20th century advertising figure, not an authentic folk hero. Much like Churchill.
Lincoln was quite calm and arguably passive-aggressive when dealing with conflicts within his truly bi-partisan cabinet. He was modest and deferential when dealing with his generals, especially the successful ones. Doesn't sound classically type-A, does it?
I think the solution is "threefold". First, we set up a government agency to produce patriotic "television" programs. Second, we pass a law that punishes those who produce unpatriotic television programs, maybe a "Defense of our Manly Heritage Act" akin to the one they have in Russia. Third, we set up a government agency to monitor not just television, but all communications, and to persecute any who deviate from the "norm".
I hear Bush is getting ready to propose something of that sort. The Democrats, it seems, are not happy with some of the details, but have resigned themselves to vote for it anyway.
He needs to watch Burn Notice. It's about a former agent betrayed by his (read Bush) government who goes about trying to find out who and why and in the process defeats various nasty folk with his cleverness and manly resolve. Congress take note!
Wait a minute! We're all supposed to be alphas? I thought we were all supposed to do what our dear leader told us to do? I'm so confused.
I wish I were able to hold so many conflicting ideas in my head at the same time. It must be some skill. Do you think there's a TV program I could watch to train me for that?
Roy, this reminds me of Philosoraptor's response to Kim du Toit's "Wimpification of the Western male."
Only much shorter and much, much funnier.
javafascist has hit the nail on the head here--if all the cliches haven't been taken can I have that one?--this *is* the pussification of the western male all over again, with comic book figures and a torn out page of tv guide. I have only one real quarrel with the writer--for g-d's sake its "honest abe" not "honest abraham Lincoln." Have the courage of your boilerplate, man, and who cares if no one can remember who you are talking about.
aimai
Am I missing something or aren't the big box office movies or opening movies like Iron Man, Hulk, Kung Fu Panda, Hancock, and Hellboy II all about gunplay and the kicking of posteriors?
Sheesh.
Project much, Ade?
"Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart."
Of course, this is from an episode of Burn Notice where a drug dealer has the non-macho name of Sugar.......
Whosthat at The American Whatnow?
Real men don't think great responsibility comes with great power--see the present administration . . .
WTF? It's not like Spider-man is a new character. He's been around since the 60s! (Although to some, that would further prove the point.)
Also, when you put people like Jim Halpert in situations that demand it, they often show real leadership and courage. The whole point of the Office is to mock people who think that a stationary sales office ought to be treated like some combination of frat house and battlefield.
"Alpha men make up 75% of nation's top executives."
Given the royal fuckup of an economy these self-serving cocksuckers* have created, this ass-plucked bullshit doesn't say much for his alpha idols.
Who the fuck is Adar Kielczewski?
*in honor of Carlin, because that's what he called them.
I don't think they'd like Hellboy much.
What makes a man...Is it his origins? The way he comes to life? I don't think so.It's the choices he makes. Not how he starts things, but how he decides to end them.
They don't like choices and they're not very good at ending things either.
The wimp factor in America stinks from the head down. Having an effete, Harvard-pedigreed, loser in the White House, who not only refused to respond to the attacks on 9/11 (does anyone recall "dead of alive" being replaced within 4 months by "I don't think about him"?), but has allowed a gang leader named Osama Bin Laden to become victorious over the USA and a justifiable hero throughout the Middle East. Heckuva job, Bushie!
How could any self-respecting American male accept such craven cowardice and impotence from their "leader"? He represents the American male in the 21st century - a stuttering, smirking, weak, run-and-hide coward that people laugh at. As long as we have 'leaders' as weak as George W Bush, with such compromised masculinity, American men will continue to be seen as weak.
" WTF? It's not like Spider-man is a new character. He's been around since the 60s! (Although to some, that would further prove the point.)"
I strongly suspect that if you put "Adar Kielczewski" through an Enigma machine, it would spit out "Jonah Goldberg".
"American Thinker" - The most ironically titled mag ever? Every article I clicked on was as spectacularly wrong as Kielczewski's: our health care system works great! Dems are responsible for high oil prices! Obama's lack of humility will doom us all! (Doesn't that contradict the need for alpha males thesis?)
Also, Honest Abe was probably gay: according to a recent bio, he traveled with and slept with a "very handsome" Army colonel. Not that there's anything wrong with that! Except if you're a social conservative. Oh wait, Mr. K is. And that makes me wonder: Is Alex the Great (bisexual for sure) to be included in the pantheon of alphas?
In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that I once wrote an essay very similar to this American Thinker post...when I was in middle school!
Declaration of Independence/British death warrant
Um, so the American War of Independence ended in the destruction of Great Britain? I have to get hold of whatever drugs this guy is on.
Ha ha hah hhhahaaa hhaaaa! Oh! OH! My my ... that dude is one stupid little man!
I think Adar is looking to be dominated.
I think people have trouble understanding that the good traits to have are not necessarily the stereotypical ones. This guy is apparently saying that he wants his male heroes to be stereotypically manly, or at least that this is what should be the case in general, and look, some media is focused on characters that aren't stereotypically manly. Which is funny, because if you look back, stereotypically manly characters came off as total jerks. I used to watch Jeannie, Bewitched, and Lucy, and in all three of those, Major Nelson, Darren, and Ricky are these controlling assholes who do nothing but highlight what's wrong with stereotypically male traits while the heroine, in two of these cases a magical one (to balance the power, I suppose), does funny things to circumvent the assholishness.
Of course, humor shows never center around a stereotypically male hero without insulting his stereotypical male features. That's a feature of humor; power isn't funny unless it's grossly disproportionate, as with magic. Humor is all about identifying with the little guy rather than the big one. This is an interesting insight, I suppose, and possibly a counterintuitive one at first glance, but certainly not one that defies all expectation like this guy's saying.
Small correction to the assumption running rampant here: the powers which I acquired after being bitten by a radioactive search engine have informed me that Adar is, in fact, of the distaff gender. Anyway, she's wrong about Spider-Man, of course; not only would he have signed the Declaration, he would have left Cornwallis webbed up in a bundle at Independence Hall.
We need more manly role models like Dwight Schrute. A volunteer deputy sheriff, runs his own beet farm and B&B, has a purple belt and a stash of weapons around the office.
Determined
Worker
Intense
Good Worker
Hard Worker
Terrific
I think someone put Adar's stapler in jello at an impressionable age.
Wait a minute--didn't Peter Parker, Jim Halpert, Shrek and even Napoleon Dynamite end up with the girl, or at least a girl, or at least something that could be classified as a girl, in the end?
Another theory shot to shit...
Ugh, not this again.
I love how their worldview pretty much requires a world of all leaders and no followers. The military they so cherish would be impossible with this guy.
"Who cares if you're the macho captain? I'm the -very- macho alpha private, and I say we do it my way!"
"Shut up both of you. I just read the Jack Welch bio and I'm not far more of a leader than you guys. We're going this way."
I meant, I've developed projects in teams filled with pseudo-leaders and it was hell, but at least I wasn't taking RPG fire while at it.
F. Jardim has an important point. AS does whoever posted upthread that the writer of this little piece longs to be dominated sexually but can't admit to it. There's something really quite feminine, or feminized, about the assumption of the writer/wanker that the reader reads the work in order to identify with a powerful, alpha male and to be instructed on how powerful, alpha males get to act and dominate those around them. And that if the reader/viewer doesn't identify with the most powerful person and his (always, his) struggles the real world struggle against evil is lost. If those he man movies are designed as instruction manuals they historically tell would be leaders how to dominate others, and tell everyone else, like women and losers, how to be dominated.
Women and people like women in society--gay men? girls with glasses? hardly ever get to "identify" with alpha males in stories. We are supposed to want to marry them. So all those other stories, about losers, dreamers, beta males, and side characters (the wide sargasso comes to mind) are written for us *other* readers--not the future leaders of the world but the rest of us. How subversive is that? that the stories of the other 99 percent of us not born to the purple, or to command, might get told? Or that we might enjoy them?
aimai
My initial response was something along the lines of, "Who the hell is Adar Kielczewski and why are you even bothering?", but I can't stop giggling at the image of Spider-Man fighting in the Revolutionary War.
As I've observed before, conservatives/Republicans are the least self-aware people.
Case in point: A classic "beta male" (or worse) writing a mediocre (or worse) article in a mediocre (or worse) rag. It's a trifecta...
The very idea of multiple points of view is painful to conservatives. That leads to choices, decisions, and personal responsibility.
Alpha men make up 75% of nation's top executives.
First, where the hell did this statistic come from?
Next, the only valid question is which executives produced good returns on shareholder value? Al Dunlop and Ken Lay may have been Alpha Males, but they were also frauds.
One of the appealing things about Jack Welch is all the ways that he defies all of the stereotypical alpha male conventions.
Case in point: A classic "beta male" (or worse) writing a mediocre (or worse) article in a mediocre (or worse) rag. It's a trifecta...
This is much like how libertarians who praise the moral value of the free market driven by Randian Supermen are invariably middle managers at government contractors.
RE: aimai on Kielczewski's hero worship
Someone's overcompensating.
Browsing around the pages of American Thinker, I'm filled with dismay that a new role model may be emerging for this country: dough-headed wonks that write for right-wing periodicals. Thank God for Edroso.
ROY SMASH!
(BTW, saw the new Hulk this week. It's not bad, but not great.)
O.K. I have to ask, just what right does this Adar guy have to call everyone else pussies? What has ever done to qualify for Machoman Alpha Male status? And owning a gun collection isn't good enough. Is this guy just another Kim DuToit/Ace of Spades doughy guy with a beard and glasses pathetically projecting his neuroses? And if so, who gives a shit what he has to say?
Can you guys imagine if Spider-Man followed the example of the film Spider-Man? Why, Doctor Octopus and the Vulture would be terrorizing all of us.
Can you guys imagine if Spider-Man followed the example of the film Spider-Man? Why, Doctor Octopus and the Vulture would be terrorizing all of us.
ChrisV82 | Homepage | 06.25.08 - 11:33 am | #
Actually, Chris, I disagree. I think that Wolverine would have stepped in and saved us, because he's a man of action.
I know, I know...he's Canadian. You have to remember, however, that he renounced his membership in Canadian super group "Alpha Flight" or something to go work for the X-Men, an American mutant team.
Advantage: U.S.A.!
"Today's television hero..."
This entire post is much more persuasive if read in the voice of a MovieTone Newsreel announcer. Once you abandon your own inner narrator--touchingly, as always, in search of something plausible and interesting-- and substitute the droning circus-barker/racetrack PA voice of History (with a capital HISS) for Movie Fans, the ringing incantatory tone ("History provides role models such as...") and unstoppably stupid content make more sense.
HTH
Wait a minute--Spiderman in the Revolutionary War would be powerless because...there were no tall buildings which would allow him free movement through the towns or cities where he would be engaged in fighting British troops and Hessian mercenaries.
Spiderman would literally only be able to fight close engagements in Boston, Philadelphia or New York, and even then, he'd have to watch out for loose shingles, wooden structures, and the odd church spire. The only problem with that is...the battles were usually fought on flat, grassy terrain with sloping hills and open spaces...terrain completely unsuited to the skills and abilities of Spiderman.
Good God, we would have lost...we would have lost the Revolutionary War if we'd have had Spider Man on our side! We would have been fucked! We'd have all of our troops lined up, and General Washington would look over at Spiderman, and Spiderman would have to give him a panicked look and scream--"where are the buildings? I can't fight without a building to hang from! I'm Spiderman, goddammit! What am I going to do, hang from the side of a horse and jump onto a tree?You fucking idiot! I told you to do this in Philadelphia!"
Look, say what you will about the blogosphere and all that, but sometimes you figure something out that knocks you on your ass and leaves you speechless when a greater truth is revealed to you...
Book marked on the one flame.
I'd say we elect a president that was a cheerleader. That will show him! Oh, wait.
Adar is a female student at an OK college associated with the Phila. Church of God. (If you're going to have a church, it should be of God.)
See her, read the names of the college administration (Flurry, Leap, etc.),
here:
http://tinyurl.com/5c6rph
Someone at work just stood up in their cubicle after reading this--and shouted--
"What about his Spider Sense? What about his Spider Sense?"
Okay, let me explain. YES, Spiderman would have been really handy to General Washington with his Spider Sense. But how effective would it have been?
Say they're on the battlefield, and Spiderman's Spider Sense starts tingling..."oh oh, the 25th Lancaster Fusiliers are going to turn the flank of the Delaware militia on the right!"
Spiderman tells General Washington--don't look now but...
General Washington explodes! "You asshole! Why didn't you tell me that twenty minutes ago when I could have moved the New Jersey Amalgamated Rifle Company over there?"
I mean, yeah. This is really messing with my head today.
Yeah, I trust a college without a library.
From the bio: "I wrote my first American Thinker article before I was old enough to drink." Good stuff.
Odd, I can't read her stuff without wanting to drink.
And if modern men are so wimpy, why isn't she scolding them instead of nagging us?
Adar on a date.
If history had put Bugs Bunny in command, we would find ourselves a much different nation too. Unfortunately history, like Kielczewski, is a maroon.
synykyl | 06.25.08 - 3:22 am
tears-in-the-eyes LOLZ of the day - ten thousand thank-yous. damn.
I'm pretty sure Adar is really Dwight Schrute.
Reel mean due to dearth, moosies. Real means fly. Not web! Gasps not like comix lady gasp. Comix lady gasp in bubble! Ream means (dearth too) gasp in sentence. Means rhetoric - no bubbles!
Jason | 06.25.08 - 7:19 am
hey, who the hell let james joyce in here?
Um. One of the guys in the captioned pictures is 'John Rambo.'
Seriously.
If only there was some intellectual, maybe an archeologist, with a macho stature, cool blue eyes and maybe a bullwhip to disprove her arbitrary retrofitted thesis -- you know, a guy like Ben Franklin.
Say they're on the battlefield...
You're ignoring the most likely storyline. The British controlled the N.Y.C. for most of war. You think Parker would let that stand? Spidey would have been devastating in guerrilla action: ambushes, sabotage, etc. Don't forget super-strength and wall climbing.
Losing the port of Manhattan as a reliable supply point would have been disasterous for the Brits. Especially during the Northern Campaign.
"Alpha men make up 75% of nation's top executives."
Since pulling stats out of a cat's ass seems like a valid technique:
Alpha men make up 95% of the nation's top murderers and rapists.
Here’s someone who watches even less tv than I do. Wimps? What about CSI’s beekcake quotient among it’s co-stars, or LAW AND ORDER’s courtroom hustlers and interrogation room bullies, and domestic sitcoms paring Neanderthals and MILFs?
C’mon, this means he relates to Rainn Wilson, we all know it….
Mikey,
You are correct--but you're missing the point entirely.
In virtually every battle, Spiderman needs tall structures that allow him to manuever and surround his enemies. He usually fights one or several powerful adversaries, not an entire Army! As soon as he began trying to attach his webs to those rickety old wooden structures of the era, he would have had boards, shingles and shutters and such flying back at him and hitting him in the head and chest--think about it, man!
Granted--he could shoot some webs and stir up some trouble, and maybe make some of those Hessians run out of town, but the real issue here is--can his web stop bullets?
The rifled barrel of the standard issue British flintlock fired a ball that was nearly a .50 caliber round--pretty powerful stuff. But their aim was awful--a point in Spiderman's favor.
I've gamed this out and all I can come up with is that Spiderman would have made a perfect logistics guy--he would have been able to make a hammock for all of the soldiers on long marches--thereby keeping them dry because they wouldn't have to sleep on the ground, and they would have gotten a good night's sleep before each battle.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what else he could do. Espionage? Probably.
"I suspect it's part of a COINTELPRO plan to discredit feminism by hiring shills to embody tiresome gender stereotypes in public."
Suspect? You suspect? Really? I would have thought Peggy Nooner served as a sufficient existence proof.
I think the larger question is whether or not Mysterio could be responsible for the madness of King George.
From the bio: "I wrote my first American Thinker article before I was old enough to drink."
..old enough to drink legally, I assume she meant, judging by the results.
And as trapdoor noted, Adar is going to Jerusalem with John Rambo!
Hey Condi, you can come home now -- we're finally sending an Alpha Male to straighten out all that mishegas between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
"What you call Hell, Rambo calls Heymish."
I don't understand the problem with Shrek. He is enormous and strong, and regularly defeated the enemy by the dozen. He's rude, crude, and socially unacceptable. He's the perfect man to win a battle.
It's because he's a man of color, isn't it, Adar?
've gamed this out and all I can come up with is that Spiderman would have made a perfect logistics guy--he would have been able to make a hammock for all of the soldiers on long marches--thereby keeping them dry because they wouldn't have to sleep on the ground, and they would have gotten a good night's sleep before each battle.
Yes, but you fail to note two important facts: 1) Once you become ensnared in Spider-Man's web, it's impossible to free yourself -- not even Spider-Man's own strength is sufficient to break his web -- so if the enemy attacked at night, the Continental soldiers would likely become helplessly tangled up in their hammocks and have to surrender. And we all remember what the British forces did to American prisoners at Brooklyn. And 2) Spider-Man's web dissolves after an hour, so it wouldn't provide much of a night's sleep.
I think we would have been better off in the Revolutionary War with Captain America fighting on our side. His shield will stop bullets, he's used to fighting large enemy formations, and his costume might give the Continental Congress a good idea for a flag.
Good God, I'm in a bad place right now...I'm really in a bad place...
Scott C., thank you. You've saved me from myself.
What was I thinking?!?
The rifled barrel of the standard issue British flintlock fired a ball that was nearly a .50 caliber round--pretty powerful stuff.
I'm pretty positive Spidey has to deal with firearms in the course of his usual crime fighting. I concede he has probably not faced too many flintlocks at this point; perhaps there's a reason for that...
In virtually every battle, Spiderman needs tall structures...
I think you're confusing necessity and contingency here. Peter Parker lives, and fights crime in NYC. NYC has lots of tall buildings. Hence, he has lots of tall buildings to climb and web. And how tall does a building have to be to put him out of bayonet and sabre range? One, maybe two stories?
Parker is smart guy; indeed, that's one of his real advantages over the villains he faces. I'm sure he could adjust his tactics to deal with circumstances.
You're certainly correct that Spidey would not be especially useful in a set-piece battle. My point is, that's not the only way wars are won. For that matter, only a handful of super heroes are useful in large scale engagements, and even then, it probably isn't the best use of their abilities. Not everyone can be Wolverine or Superman. Or Bugs Bunny.
Actually, Warren, the british (and most of the americans and probably all the French) used smoothbore muskets during the time of the revolution. That was why they couldn't hit anythign smaller than an army reliably.
I'm thinking Spiderman could have tipped the war at sea in our favor. He'd have the rigging to use for web swinging and he could flip from ship to ship at will. He could use his Spider strenght to tear down the mainmasts on all the British ships blockading American harbors, making them easy prey for the weaker American ships.
Oh, and speaking of history, do you know who was the perfect embodiment of all the virtues he or she is on about?
George Custer.
Best. Alicucomments. Ever.
Wow...
BTW the reason for the delay between the signing of the Declaration of Independance and the printing of the document was because the signers knew they were signing their own death warrent. So while signing was certainly a brave act, the signers weren't crazy. There was also a month or so gap between the voting for the Declaration and the signing. In fact, the second printing, which had everyone's names on it, wasn't done until January 18, 1777, a good half year after it was adopted.
Canada would be so much nicer if it was further south.
Canada would be so much nicer if the USA was further south.
Okay--so if I'm getting what you're saying--Spiderman could easily transition from an urban-oriented tall-building utilizing anti-hero with a heart of gold but a conflicted self-purpose and a wounded ego sort of "uber-geek" into a free-ranging, small wooden structure-using, battlefield savvy sort of "ranger" type that could tip set-piece battles with heavy weapon utilizing British regulars of the late 18th century?
Would he "range" out in front of an advancing American force and report back on the disposition of British forces? Would he be able to? That costume would reveal him from miles away in a wooded setting. Spiderman would likely have to switch to a woodland camoflage motif--hundreds of years BEFORE anyone else really pursued that sort of thing.
I think the equalizer would have to be the British Officer corps--they'd know what to tell their troops. "Lads, he's a man who has "spider-like abilities" and he's good, but we're the British Army! For God, and King and Country, Huzzah!
The British packed some serious power when they went to war. What about their use of the 24 pounder cannons as artillery pieces? Surely they would test the web-strength of anything Spiderman could set up in order to protect irregular militia or Continental regulars?
Let us not forget the impact of the officers and sergeants of the British Army, who wielded spontoons, halberds and claymores--pretty heady stuff even for Spiderman.
And, I beg to differ on the fact that the British didn't have rifles--
The British in the American Revolutionary War had their own secret weapon, the Ferguson breech loading rifle. This was designed by Patrick Ferguson, then a Captain in the British army, and patented in England in 1777. It had a threaded cylinder attached to the trigger guard, with steeply pitched threads that allowed one twist of the trigger guard to open the breech for insertion of a ball and powder. In tests conducted before the Army officials, the rifle proved that it could shoot 6 shots per minute and reliably hit a target 200 yards away. This was far superior to the standard issue smooth bore musket, the Brown Bess. The barrel of the Ferguson rifle was rifled, which contributed greatly to its accuracy.
These weapons would have caused Spiderman no end of grief--had they been used in great numbers.
This is why I think Spiderman would have been pretty sulky throughout the American Revolution. I think he would have developed an attitude problem, and probably would have turned into a punk and an asshole. At least until someone built some taller buildings.
I'm thinking Spiderman could have tipped the war at sea in our favor. He'd have the rigging to use for web swinging and he could flip from ship to ship at will. He could use his Spider strenght to tear down the mainmasts on all the British ships blockading American harbors, making them easy prey for the weaker American ships.
Witless, I already thought of that.
The British Navy would have to stand out to sea, in middling seas, in order to mitigate the effect of a Spiderman attack on their hemp-rope rigging.
For about and hour and a half or so I was convinced--CONVINCED--that there was only one answer, and one answer only.
Fuckin' a, I thought.
AQUA MAN.
Aqua Man, dude.
Think about it, you guys--he can swim under every single British frigate, Man-of-War, every 64 gun ship, every single one of them and punch a nasty hole in them and sink every single one of them and still have time to swim home and kick back and collect all of his plaudits and praise.
But wait a minute--could Aqua Man let anyone drown?
I KNOW!!! I just about screamed. Aqua Man couldn't let all of those dudes drown--he'd have to drag their assess to dry ground and they'd probably form up and march inland and that would be the end of that folly.
So that wouldn't work either. We're left with Spiderman and Aqua Man basically being fucking useless, and I am in a bad, bad place thinking about that, too.
"Canada would be so much nicer if the USA was further south."
Heh. Build a fence you hosers 
I am loving your work. All of you.
At last year's season finale, he turned down a managerial position. A man of action he's not.
A mangerial position!!?!? And he turned it down?!!? That's unpossible.
Ya gotta feel for the Gamma males, the Alphas won't let them play in their reindeer games and those wimpy Betas don't give shit what the they think and keep doing things that make no sense to the poor gammas.
For some reason, this comment thread reminds me of Larry Niven's Man of Steel; Woman of Kleenex - a must-read if you're not familiar with it.
Warren, you need a nap, dude. I can't recall the details, but there was one of those wacky old World's Finest - written by Bob Haney or Bob Kanigher or one of those other maniacs DC had on staff in the '50s and '60s - wrote about Batman and Superman being sent back to the Revolutionary War to help Ben Franklin do something. Also, Superman had to burn Batman as a witch at one point, if memory serves.
And y'all are going about it all wrong. You're thinking flash when you have a guerrilla war fought with a mostly apathetic populace to win. You don't need to make a big deal, you just need to make it irritating as possible for the occupying army. So, we have coastland America, much of it swampy and full of friggin' mosquitos and and fireants and bugs and shit.
The solution is so simple. Henry "Ant-Man/Giant-Man/Goliath/Yellowjacket" Pym and have get his ants to bite the British until they leave. Maybe it's just a result of my rural upbringing, but any man that can control fire ants is a man I fear.
...and they hate Power Man and Iron Fist for their interracial relationship
I've gamed this out...
So, Peter and M.J. take a vacation to Williamsburg, VA. Suddenly, a third of the combatant, and maybe 20% of the non-combatant reenactors go nuts, the weapons are real, and they start killing the Blue Coats, taxing the tea, billeting in their homes, and so on. Peter puts on his Spidey suit to help the Yanks... and gets his ass kicked.
Really? I'm still not buying it.
Okay--so if I'm getting what you're saying--Spiderman could easily transition from an urban-oriented tall-building utilizing anti-hero with a heart of gold but a conflicted self-purpose and a wounded ego sort of "uber-geek"...
Errr, no you're still not getting what I'm saying.
And you're forgetting the super-strength, lightning reflexes, wall-climbing, and sarcastic wit. He's also a fairly able chemist -- when he first got his powers, he had to invent his webbing after all.
... Spiderman could easily transition from an urban-oriented...
Why would he need to transition? Philadelphia, Manhattan, and Boston were not exactly wilderness at the time. In 1775, Philadelphia was the second largest city in the British Freaking Empire, after only London.
...into a free-ranging, small wooden structure-using, battlefield savvy sort of "ranger" type that could tip set-piece battles with heavy weapon utilizing British regulars of the late 18th century?
Perhaps I should have done a better job of explicitly stating that I think he'd do quite well in a true guerrilla role. As I definitely mentioned before, I suspect he have raised a considerable ruckus behind the lines in his hometown. I also specifically stated I don't think he'd do well in set-piece battles.
I think your focusing a bit too much on a brute force approach. Spidey is pretty far from the strongest superhero. The thing is, he knows it. He knows how to fight smart, against a stronger opponent. I'm not sure why that would change if the opponent's only real advantage is numbers.
I also think you're fixating on the hardware a bit too much. However, I'll be sure to pass your assessment of the Fergie breechloader on to the Green Goblin at the next Sinister Twelve meeting.
Anyone who thinks Spider Man is a wuss needs to brush up on his (do ladies think about Spider Man) comic book knowlege. Remember, Spider Man beat the crap out of (and maybe killed; I don't remember) Firelord, one of the heralds of Galactus. Beat that, nerds!
What about Tarzan? He scaled trees and cliffs, and swung from limb to limb. He would have been great in the French and Indian War, so maybe Spidey could imitate his tactics.
What about Tarzan?
Oh sure, the one white guy in the jungle and he's the one with extra-special powers. Racist.
Me, I gotta go with Thor. He's a fucking God for fuckssake.
As Gates would have said to Burgoyne at Saratoga It's Hammer Time, Bee-atch. And then Thor would have done whatever it is immortals do.
There is no way we would have lost to the Brits in the Revolutionary War -- we had Washington, the originial alpha male:
"6'20" and killing for fun."
http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=15035
I'm pretty sure he's right. Up to this point in our history Hollywood has never once told the story of a good natured underdog who wins out.
Unheard of, and surely a threatening trend to Y chromosomes everywhere.
I think Wonder Women would have been a big asset to the Colonists. If nothing else (and there is plenty 'else') she'd be a big distraction to the english/hessian troops.
This is all well and good, but what does Kilo think?
Did she forget about the speech Jim wrote for Dwight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p...h?
v=pzzP_9ZmgGs
Thor, and if my wine-addled memory is serving me just now, Wonder Woman would have both been around during the American revolution, and could have played along if they deigned to notice the colonies in those dark days. I kind of like Abigail Adams as a potential alter-ego for Ms. Woman.
As for Spiderman's and Aquaman's potential utility in British colonial times, I remind the readers that there were both tall trees and fish in abundance in those days...
K (Peter Parker would totally have started out as a brooding wood-chopping fronteirsboy though.)
Me, I gotta go with Thor. He's a fucking God for fuckssake.
Jay B. | 06.25.08 - 5:00 pm
I've never forgotten the first fanzine I ever saw, about a thousand years ago when I was a tadette: the Golden God holding his head and moaning, "I'm mighty thore this morning..." Must have been after reading The American Stinker.
The British Navy would have to stand out to sea, in middling seas, in order to mitigate the effect of a Spiderman attack on their hemp-rope rigging.
Cheech and Chong, man. They'd have smoked 'em, fer sure!
Thanks for giving away a major Locust spoiler, asswipe.
I still have the man-crush for you tho.
ah, Adar, recent college graduate, had this offer to write extended to her by the nice men back at college, and it's the only thing she has going... so while she's at home, summer after graduation, Adar, no particular job skills, offers, outside interests, or romance beckoning, will write a bitter lament about american masculinity from a perch on her spinster's sofa, lit by the flickering glare of prime-time TV.
alphas: aggressive, authoritative, ambitious men who took control
No further comment necessary.
The historian David McCullough sent me this a little while ago, and I hope it helps all of you to understand that, while Spiderman might be pretty awesome, he wasn't all that much help to America's original badass superhero, George Washington:
"I have endeavored to write sooner, your Excellency, but my obligations in the field and the needs of the Continental Army have kept me occupied and have prevented me from communicating to you my concerns re: The Utilization of "the Spider Man."
If motivation were the issue at hand, I would say that the Spider Man is neither conscious of his duties nor adept at them. I find him lacking in the utmost and adrift in thought when he is in my presence. His moody reflections have been unwelcome at my table in the evening hours when the senior officers and I settle in to discuss the affairs of the Army. In the case of the need for discipline in the field, he has been seen by my officers and myself to be lacking.
There is no doubting his ability to move forthwith and quickly when the Army is engaged. His alacrity is known to your Excellency and his derring-do is then envy of many.
I shall illustrate that this is not in the contention of what I am asking. To wit--He attempted to construct a webbing defense across our positions on the heights near Fort Lee, New York during our last campaign there, a campaign I freely admit was fraught with disaster and indecision on the part of myself and the Army. While the webbing was of sound construction and was ably spun, it separated part of the army from the objective of defending a position of fascine bundles in the advance path of the British regulars, who simply stoked a fire and burned the webbing and chased the Spider Man with their bayonets. A company of New York militia stood abreast and fired one volley and the line was thusly held. The Spider Man was much chagrined and left the field of battle in a sulk. He was not to be found, and complained that there were not sufficient buildings or a tall chuch nearby to give him the advantage in height he demands for conducting his operations. Further campaigning was impossible in such areas as the militia are not trained to manuever in and amongst the homes and housing areas and the business districts of the Dutch we find in New York.
I find him to be perfectly useless, your Excellency, and request that he be reassigned to other duties, as to your discretion I shall not encroach upon what your thoughts may be."
General George Washington, 1777
Obama's lack of humility will doom us all! (Doesn't that contradict the need for alpha males thesis?)
In Adar's tiny mind, Alpha status is for WHITE males only. I believe her word for would-be Alphas like Obama (and Hillary) would be Uppity.
It wasn't until the British started stealing our delicious Hostess snacks that the superheroes got involved.
Lukas Cage--'nuff said.
aimai
(Oh, the letter from George washington was pure comedly gold.)
aimai
Too late. Peter Parker was in the American Revolution--as an admiral in the Royal Navy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Sir...er,_1st_Baronet
These weapons would have caused Spiderman no end of grief--had they been used in great numbers.
Oh, possibly, but:
(1) they weren't used in great numbers. The default weapon for virtually all British soldiers (and all redcoats) was the smoothbore musket, and
(2) as someone already tried to point out above, high-caliber firearms with long-range accuracy didn't disappear after the Revolutionary War. You keep asserting that someone who fights crime in New York City would go "Eek! A gun!" if confronted with a company of men armed with a single-shot weapon from two hundred years ago. Hey, I hear British soldiers often carried these things called knives. Pretty damn' devastating, and unheard of in the metro areas of today.
Small problem with your letter (which was otherwise great), Warren:
who simply stoked a fire and burned the webbing
Spider-Man can modify his webbing to make it flame-retardant; handy when he's sparring with the Human Torch.
Also: British artillery? Web up those fuse-holes or whatever they're called. Not to mention the flintlocks on the muskets.
Lucas Cage--'nuff said.
Sweet Christmas!
Hey, I hear British soldiers often carried these things called knives. Pretty damn' devastating, and unheard of in the metro areas of today.
IN point of fact, the British Army broke their enemies with bayonet charges, not volleys. Spiderman would actually be very effective in stopping several dozen British regulars, but the problem then becomes an issue of volume--does he shoot webs along a front of approximately one thousand meters and render immobile or block the movement of several thousand men?
Well, what then for the Colonial militia and the Continental regulars--and their cavalry? Web has no friends, as the saying goes, (just like fire, and I will concede that Spiderman's webbing is flame retardent IF it will be conceded to me that Spiderman needs tall, smooth brick and glass buildings of at least 25 to 50 storeys in order to maximize his ability to move--and AS YET that point has not been conceded to me.
We keep forgetting--Peter Parker could often become quite the morose and introverted dreamer. What if he dreamed up a plan to fight the British, told no one, and inadvertently caused BOTH armies to become hopelessly ensnared in webbing that was impervious to knives, bayonets, cannon fire, swords, claymores, fire itself, and/or rifle butts? The resulting chaos would mean BOTH armies would have to reach a truce or surrender to an as-yet-not-considered third party--the Native Americans!
Son of a bitch--Spiderman would likely--LIKELY--screw up the whole goddamned American revolution and let the Indians win.
Son of a bitch...that's my thesis.
It's nice to see Warren put down the GAO reports and white papers and have a little fun now and then. 
THis is my doctoral thesis, you know. I'm six weeks from graduation and I haven't even started.
I've been hallucinating for months...it must be the tap water.
...and AS YET that point has not been conceded to me.
Well, that's only because you haven't proved it.
... Spiderman needs tall, smooth brick and glass buildings of at least 25 to 50 storeys in order to maximize his ability to move ...
Spidey doesn't have to maximize his movement. He only needs to move better than his opponents. One and two story buildings are no impediment to him (acrobatic leaps), he can just jump over or on them. A few thousand Red Coats in a town or city, well, most of them would be more of a threat to each other, those handful that could actually engage Spidey at any given time could be dealt with as typical. Notice he's jumping, there, not swinging.
Of course, Paine's men aren't armed with breechloaders.
We keep forgetting--Peter Parker could often become quite the morose and introverted dreamer.
Speak for yourself.
[Grrr, freaking haloscan]
Anyway, again, you're mistaking necessity and contingency. Parker was morose because bad shit happened to him. He was introverted because, well, he had a bit of a secret to keep, and you may recall there were times his city was not exactly full of his fans.
The resulting chaos...
You really dislike him, don't ya? Still, I don't recall him being a complete f***-off.
No, Wonder Woman was not around during the Revolution, though she may have traveled back to it (I know Superman has done it at least twice). They did have a few super-heroes (Miss Liberty, the White Magician) and presumably DC's immortals (Immortal Man, Vandal Savage, etc.) would have been around,whether or not they were involved.
In any case,criticism of Peter Parker for wimpiness could as easily be directed at Superman: Look, in his ordinary identity, he's a coward (not in the current incarnation but for most of his history)! A weakling! Henpecked by that ballbusting Lois! What sort of symbol is he for America's youth?
And he was created in the thirties.
Of course, what Adar doesn't get is that this is a large part of the hook: Supes and Spidey are the seeming betas hiding matchless reserves of courage, power and amazingness (and yes, alphaness).
I still don't get her point about Shrek, unless it's the fact he's so unambitious he lives in a swamp.
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