The Education Wonks
I absolutely and one hundred percent agree. I agree so thoroughly that my fingers are shaking as I try to type about how much I agree.
How have we devolved to such a state that the negatives now rule the schools? Don't our good and smart kids have rights any more? I don't think they do.
Self-esteem my wide white ass. Get rid of these deliberate parasites. They've made their choice. Put all the attention on the kids who, given the same choices, chose to try and learn, not disrupt.
Disruptive students are number one on my list of 'classroom problems.' I bet other teachers feel this way, also. Maybe not all, but a lot.
Why do we continue to put up with it? More to the point, why do administrators continue to put up with it? WHY????????
My heart hurts for the students who would have loved to learn something, but who instead had to sit and put up with people whose main goal in life was to prevent anybody else from rising.
How DARE you make so much sense, EdWonk? 
Why is it that the #1 complaint of teachers year after year never seems to get adequately addressed? Kim Swygert has a good reason at her site today. Then, of course, there's the "self-esteemists" (como dijo la linda Mamacita!) who make sense about a tenth of a percent of the time. Don't also forget the racialists who claim that it's "merely black culture," and if a [white] teacher complains about [black student-caused] disruptions, they're being "insensitive" and possibly (wait for it) "racist."
Geez, can you think of anything more [seriously] self-deprecating?
I couldn't agree more!
I only wish those alternative settings were more common, and really effective.
Why do you support alternative programs? The marginal cost is incredible and the benefit small. Why not just show the disruptive students the door? School should be for children who want to learn.
My grandfather used to tell us all that when we turned 16, if we did not have at least a C average, we were out of school and off to work. We believed him. In other words, there was a consequence at home.
That's fine enough if I am just trying to find the reason, but it's no solution.
Teachers in this situation are given responsibility but no authority. It's an untenable position. If students are forced to be there, but they don't want to be, there is no real solution. Students with neither inspiration nor discipline have no concern for consequences. I hate to be a pessimist, but this is what I see.
Two Words: Manual Labor. IF El Presidente Fox was correct in saying that "Illegal" Mexican labor was doing the jobs that "Americans" would not do, maybe we should have these punks out mowing lawns, harvesting crops, performing grunt construction work, etc. Adopt the historical words of Capt. John Smith at Jamestown, Virginia to those coddled English gentry gentlemen who came to Virginia with him......"You don't work, you don't eat." IF they are on public assistance, promise cuts in benefits for any school grade below a 'C'.
Maybe they will begin to learn the value of a formal education.
Preach on Brother. Maybe it's too much to the choir, but it is so true. The self-esteem, let's just nurture these poor dears, type of education has most of the parents who want their children to get a decent education voting with their feet by either home schooling or private schools. It is so sad the number of public school teacher who have their children in private schools because they know that's the only place where they will get a quality education.
I don't think the point is to "get rid" of those disruptive students, but to find an environment that can HELP them. We can't forget that these students are *children* and need our help. A lot of students that I have who are disruptive have less than positive home lives - shelters, abusive parents, etc. We can't blame them or punish them more. Perhaps being in a mainstream situation is not conducive to helping those students and we need the flexibility to help those students who need our help the most. What disturbs me about the post on the edwize.org site and some of the comments here is that these disruptive students are made to look like the enemy and teachers wish to tell them "what they really think about them". If you can't look at a kid and see the potential that student holds, then you shouldn't be a teacher. Yes, many disruptive students hurt the students around them. But, we need to help the disruptive student - perhaps by finding a better environment - not just help the students who supposedly care more. The disruptive students care too and given the right environment - one that helps them be successful - can show that they care. We should be looking out for all students - those who show us they care and those who have more trouble showing they care.
Tim Fredrick
http://timfredrick.typepad.com
No one wants to face the truth. Blacks don't have the same higher level thinking skills. This has been known for over 100 years of testing. Is it any wonder they act a bit lower on the evolutionary chain?
John- I cannot believe you said that; what a jerk. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! Thank you Tim. Every job has its hurdles and bumps along the way; how we deal with them is a proof of our character.
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