Lob a Chunk o' Feedback at Blog d'Elisson
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Cudos to you and Meryl!! 
Paul |
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11.04.07 - 8:09 am | #
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Congrats to Meryl.
Actually the age of bat mitzva at twelve for a girl has little to do with physical maturity and more to do with spiritual maturity.
Women have a deeper stronger connection with Hashem. This is why women don't have the religious obligations that men do such as Tallis and Tefillin. Men are weak spiritually. They need all the reminders to make that connection. Women have the connection naturally.
bro in-law d'elison |
11.04.07 - 2:39 pm | #
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I assure you, Ellison, that she did good. Better than good, she was terrific. And the essence of this rite of passage has its crux, after all, much more in the joy of learning than in the perfection of "performance."
So now she wants to keep on learning and do it again next year? That's about as good as it gets.
Your presence was very much felt and appreciated by all of us who were privileged to be there.
Lynn B. |
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11.04.07 - 11:29 pm | #
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Bro-in-law d'Elisson, the reason you cite for women not having the same religious obligations as men in Judaism is among the later (and less offensive) ones in a long line of reasons that reaches back to Talmudic times. I don't have the paper, unfortunately, but recently a friend of mine wrote a survey of the reasons that have been used throughout Jewish history to justify women's exemption from various religious obligations -- an exemption which, I am sorry to add, many choose even now to interpret as an outright prohibition.
Among the earlier reasons is this (and I can find the source if you wish): that if a woman had a religious obligation at the same time that her husband wanted her to do something for him, her husband would be upset, so rather than get the woman into trouble with her husband, God chivalrously gave up His claim on women's service.
As for tallit and tefillin, more and more women are taking on these mitzvot. I know quite a few who have chosen to do so in my own neighborhood. Speaking for myself, I'd say that in our world, women need reminders of God's presence just as much as men do.
Rahel |
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11.05.07 - 1:48 am | #
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Don't forget what happens if a child decides that he/she needs Mommy right in the middle of Shmonah Esrei.
Sabba Hillel |
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11.05.07 - 8:50 am | #
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Although this is not the place to carry on a Talmudic discussion, women are not obligated in mitzvas aseh sh'hazman groma, except for a few exceptions.
My only question to women in the more assimilated forms of Judaism who insist on taking on male roles is, are you also observing those mitvas that you are m'chuyav in. Taharas mishpacha, kashrus, tzniyus, shabbos licht at the correct time and so forth.
It would seem to me that since women have this innate connection with Hashem, when they choose to observe the "male" mitzvas they are saying that they are lacking in the spirituality that should come naturally. I think one should be very careful not to perpetuate the fiction that Torah observant women are dominated by their husbands and kept "barefoot and pregnant." I've known too many doctors, professors and lawyers that cover their hair.
Kol Tuv
bro in-law d'elisson |
11.05.07 - 5:37 pm | #
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Sabba Hillel, that is a different issue. Nevertheless, I think that with respect and goodwill on the part of both parents, these things can be worked out. Among my friends, they are.
Bro-in-law d'Elisson, as Blu Greenberg once observed in reply to concerns similar to the ones you cite, "No one checks a man's tzitzit" -- in other words, no one feels it necessary to delve as deeply into the motives of men. I add: "Mi-tokh she-lo lishmah, ba lishmah" -- the traditional principle that one who keeps a given commandment out of some ulterior motive will eventually come to keep it for its own sake. With respect, the reason you cite for women's exemption from performing certain commandments is one of many that have been used throughout the centuries, and is not the one I subscribe to. I choose to believe that when a woman keeps a certain mitzvah, the only statement she is making is that she wants to come closer to God.
In any case, how can we possibly know one way or the other? There is only One who can see into human motives. Does our principle of "dan le-khaf zekhut" -- giving the benefit of the doubt -- cease to apply when we see a woman in tallit and tefillin? I think not.
One thing I've observed over the years is that we tend to equate our personal discomfort with halakhah (Jewish religious law) in some way. "I'm not comfortable seeing this; it is unfamiliar to me; my grandmother didn't do it -- therefore it's against halakhah." I've encountered this attitude even when I've been able to show that halakhah permits women to perform the activity in question. There's nothing wrong with admitting we're uncomfortable with something. Yet I feel that we should be willing to make the separation between our own comfort level and halakhah. Even if I might not like the sight of women wearing tallit and tefillin or reading from a Torah scroll, Jewish law allows them to do so nevertheless.
Finally, I think that by now we all know that a woman's profession, no matter how specialized or high-paying it may be, does not necessarily protect her from abuse or oppression. As for the historical aspect, I won't go into detail here, but I will say that five years of working at an encyclopedia of Jewish women opened my eyes quite a bit.
Elisson, I ask your forgiveness if I've overstepped any bounds here.
Rahel |
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11.06.07 - 3:13 am | #
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Bro and Rahel, You both make good points and considering you are coming at the discussion from polar opposite positions perhaps I, in the middle, can put in my own two-cents.
Rahel, your point that when one is "uncomfortable" with something it is okay to admit it is true. I, though I grew up in a reform temple, am uncomfortable with the idea of women wearing talit, tztzit, tefillin, or having the kohen or levi alliyah. Perhaps better said, I would never consider doing these things myself. Elisson and I did not present talit to our daughters on their b'nai mitzvahs. Also, we do not keep kosher, nor do I go to the mikveh. The point my brother makes regarding the mitzvot specifically for women was not addressed in your comment.
To me, this is the beauty of Judaism. That we can have this discussion, not excommunicate anyone, and walk away friends and loving family.
SWMBO |
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11.06.07 - 6:51 am | #
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Q: What's the difference between a pharmacist and a Talmudic scholar?
A: The Talmudic scholar spends his or her days engaged in pilpul; the pharmacist in pill-push.
((GROAN))
Elisson |
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11.06.07 - 6:55 am | #
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SWMBO, I agree completely with you about being able to remain friends and loving family in spite of disagreement. That's extremely important.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear -- I thought I had addressed your brother's point about women needing to make sure that they fulfill all "their" mitzvot before taking on additional ones with my citation of Blu Greenberg's saying, "No one checks a man's tzitzit." Her point is that -- for example -- a shul that needs to complete a minyan will take any Jewish man it finds and even honor him with an aliyah to the Torah without first checking to see how observant he is. So why shouldn't women be cut the same slack?
In my opinion, tzni'ut (modesty) is not a "women's mitzvah." It is equally incumbent on both sexes, and in my opinion has been so over-stressed for women as to become an avodah zarah, an object of false worship.
Well, I say that if you're gonna go in for objects of false worship, cats are a much better idea.
Rahel |
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11.06.07 - 7:39 am | #
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